Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

[Kazgrim]

We can't create new animations but you can add things like geosets and customizations to any creature model

[Geojak]

Dreanei for the horde without paladin class, and worgen for the alliance

[Lasershadow]

Would the Kul Tiran Models be acceptable start for creating an Ogre race models? Especially for the female models?

[Zulnam]

Man I would love Ogres for the Horde.
But I would also love bulky forest trolls. Which would make sense if alliance has high elves. And I do love me some old Horde and especially the old troll models.

Add Zul'jin as the leader and you have a proper old school Horde leader among what we have now (the Black Eyed Peas).


For Alliance it's a bit trickier since all the og races are already in it. non-worgen Gilneas is an obvious contender and i think a lot of roleplayers would appreciate having that beautiful city to have meetings and events in. But it doesn't exactly thrill you to the bone, unless the models were a bit different. And Greymane would also bring some pedigree to the Alliance leader band.

Draenei could also be a strong contender, if they ever want to expand the turtle story... beyond the Dark Portal... Lore-wise, they're first mentioned in Warcraft 2 and allegedly aided the Alliance by acting as local guides. But the whole thing would have to be rewritten since i doubt a lot of people here like the Na'ru thing. Maybe Zuluhead did indeed survive and rallied a New Horde. Or maybe Danath and Khadgar just opened it cause they got sick off fel pig meat for the last 20 years.
I'd love if we got the half-broken models but realistically all the work is already done for the TBC version, so /shrug.

[Talenne]

I'm in favor of using Draenei but do like High Elves and give them a different backstory than retail, likely will have to come with renaming them too but they are just a perfect fit for the Alliance with their Light theme, blue color motifs, and ornate architecture style, plus a character model that's easy to put in. I'm sure something could be done, without being too shark jumpy.

[Karrados]

Oh I can see this going well. Alliance would get yet another Burning Crusade model which works 100% while Horde would get another jerry-rigged race which is very questionable at best.

To this day Goblins still have only one face with their customization being extremely lacking.

[Kazgrim]

Oh I can see this going well. Alliance would get yet another Burning Crusade model which works 100% while Horde would get another jerry-rigged race which is very questionable at best.

To this day Goblins still have only one face with their customization being extremely lacking.

It's fine to be upset about goblins not having as many customizations as the base races, but why would you oppose free new content like an ogre race? Even if it's missing some social emote animations, how is that effecting you?

And to be fair, goblin customizations required work and custom assets whereas high elves we just copied what blizzard had already made. So obviously there were always going to be discrepancies in quality.

[Tasman]

Draenei for Alliance (all classes that was available in TBC expansion except shaman) and Arakkoa bird people for the Horde (Clases: Warrior, Rouge, Hunter, Mage, Shaman). And reworked Outland for those 2 races with leveling locations from lvl 1 to 60.

[Kefke]

I think Ogres make a lot of sense as a Horde race. There's a lot of parallels to the High Elves, actually. Both are iconic faction races that are still present in the lore, and represented by NPCs, but weren't made playable. High Elves were supposed to be diminished in number, while only a small number of Ogres remained loyal to the Horde.

There's at least a usable model to start from for Ogres, since we have the transformation, and as far a general body shape, you could probably adapt Panderan armors for them. Lack of a female model is a problem, but not insurmountable. Based on lore and in-game enemies, we even have a good number of classes for them; Warriors (obviously), Mages (likewise), Warlocks, Shamans...in fact, looking on Wowpedia to double check, they could be any of the playable classes (except Paladin), and a few that aren't in the game, so take your pick and fill the remaining slots to make them on par with High Elves for selection. So give them Hunter, since they have both Hunters and Rangers, and since they're big leave Rogue as the odd one out (there's only one example of an Ogre Rogue anyway) in favour of Priest to lean into the magic aspect.

As for what race the Alliance should get? Goblins. Yes, I know that Goblins are traditionally a Horde race. Yes, I know that they're Horde in Retail. Frankly, I just don't think that it makes sense that they're still a Horde exclusive race in WoW. Look at every Goblin city. What do they have in common? They're neutral. Members of both factions are welcome as long as they don't cause trouble. Goblin merchants do business in Alliance lands, and even in Alliance capital cities. They may have come with the Horde, but it's pretty clear that by the time of WoW, the only thing Goblins are loyal to is Gold. Heck, even the intro for them in Retail basically says this. Personally, I'd even go so far as to give them an additional racial passive that makes NPCs treat them as neutral as long as they don't take hostile actions (the way Goblin bruisers treat everyone), but that might be a bit much. Still, if any race makes sense to play both sides, I'd say that Goblins are that race.

[Lightwave]

Consider: Draenei as a neutral race.
Either choosing a faction partway, or just have 2 identical versions, one for horde and one for alliance.
If you go with the latter, you could even maintain the Paladin/Shaman exclusivity.


To quote a friend when we discussed this:
Horde Draenei: "We understand that the Orcs are not our true foes. Both of our peoples were victims of the Legion, and before then we were neighbors in peace. Now, if you would have us, we shall be brothers in war."
Horde: "The Horde is a family. We fight, but we forgive. We know the strength that forgiveness requires, and welcome yours gladly."

Alliance Draenei: "Screw the Orcs."
Alliance: "Welcome to the club!"

[Xeapor]

Consider: Draenei as a neutral race.
Either choosing a faction partway, or just have 2 identical versions, one for horde and one for alliance.
If you go with the latter, you could even maintain the Paladin/Shaman exclusivity.


To quote a friend when we discussed this:
Horde Draenei: "We understand that the Orcs are not our true foes. Both of our peoples were victims of the Legion, and before then we were neighbors in peace. Now, if you would have us, we shall be brothers in war."
Horde: "The Horde is a family. We fight, but we forgive. We know the strength that forgiveness requires, and welcome yours gladly."

Alliance Draenei: "Screw the Orcs."
Alliance: "Welcome to the club!"

That sounds like the most lore unfriendly thing ever

Ogres for Horde, Draenei for Alliance

[Kefke]

Ogres for Horde, Draenei for Alliance

Nah, we don't need Draenei. Give Ogres to the Horde, and let Goblins be the opportunistic little bastards they are by working for whoever pays them.

[Arduron]

If the night elves can't get some kind of companion race on Kalimdor, then just goblins on both factions would be great, but not sure how they'd fit in as well as the intro does for the horde with Gazlowe and whatnot.

[Littlebirdd]

Vrykuls would fit for alliance! vikings would be fitting in stormwind.
I think seeing snake creatures and aliens in stormwind would ruin the image of the medieval stormwind...

[Pauloricardo]

Is it possible add Furbolgs for the Alliance? They could begin with the Night Elves, but I think the team Turtle should focus in add Ogres for the Horde(It will be a good combination: 2 races with a good lore but forgotten by Blizzard been playable).I think it will work well.

[Kefke]

I could see Furbolgs being added. From a lore standpoint, they have at least an indirect tie to the Alliance. Plus, physically, they'd make a good counterpart to Taurens. It might take some tweaks to how quests are written to account for friendly Furbolgs in the Alliance instead of just the hostile and neutral NPC ones, though.

[Pauloricardo]

I could see Furbolgs being added. From a lore standpoint, they have at least an indirect tie to the Alliance. Plus, physically, they'd make a good counterpart to Taurens. It might take some tweaks to how quests are written to account for friendly Furbolgs in the Alliance instead of just the hostile and neutral NPC ones, though.

Timbermaw Furbolgs or another tribe?

[Galendor]

Though I was writing about furbolgs and children of Cenarius earlier, I'd like to suggest another variant that could be added to the Alliance: half-elves.
Yeah, they're basically humans with elven ears and I doubt that there's a lot of people who want to play as half-bloods when there are actual high elves but still that's a race that is in the Alliance due to their blood and spirit.

[Galendor]

I could see Furbolgs being added. From a lore standpoint, they have at least an indirect tie to the Alliance. Plus, physically, they'd make a good counterpart to Taurens. It might take some tweaks to how quests are written to account for friendly Furbolgs in the Alliance instead of just the hostile and neutral NPC ones, though.

Timbermaw Furbolgs or another tribe?

I' d suggest another tribe - Barkskin from WC3 or Stillpine from TBC. Or ever refugees from Gnarlpine - to make furbolgs start in Teldrassil.

[Mac]

I' d suggest another tribe - Barkskin from WC3 or Stillpine from TBC. Or ever refugees from Gnarlpine - to make furbolgs start in Teldrassil.

Barkskin are a great choice in my opinion. The lore of the game just sorts of forgets they exist, so reintroducing them would be great.

[Pauloricardo]

I could see Furbolgs being added. From a lore standpoint, they have at least an indirect tie to the Alliance. Plus, physically, they'd make a good counterpart to Taurens. It might take some tweaks to how quests are written to account for friendly Furbolgs in the Alliance instead of just the hostile and neutral NPC ones, though.

Timbermaw Furbolgs or another tribe?

I' d suggest another tribe - Barkskin from WC3 or Stillpine from TBC. Or ever refugees from Gnarlpine - to make furbolgs start in Teldrassil.

I forgot the Barskin...As far as I know, They were the ones who helped the Night Elves against the Burning Legion(go to Mercenary post and contract them) am I right?

[Kefke]

Barkskin would be good. I'm all for things that bring back old and forgotten lore. That's a big reason I'd like to see Ogres in the Horde to begin with.

[Lightwave]

My big concern with Furbolgs as an Alliance race is that Furbolgs are druidic and shamanistic.
Giving Alliance players a second Druid race could be balanced the same way they did it in Cataclysm with Troll Druids (Praise Gonk, Loa of Shapes!), but Alliance Shamans (and the Horde Paladins required for faction balance) are a contentious subject.

Not to mention the added workload of adding/animating new models for druid forms.

[Whalemilk]

Ogres horde
Blood elves alliance

[Zulnam]

Like I said in the other thread on new races, Alliance already has (almost) all the OG wc2/3 races. So picking a new alliance race is tricky.

It would have to be one of the neutral races from wow. And none of them, to my knowledge, have graphics for more complex gear wearing like the playable races.

But technical difficulties aside, lets see some of the options:

Dryad - this is where the almost from above comes to play. While Dryads did technically aid the Night Elves in wc3, they are not a faction in the traditional sense, have no settlements and it would be impossible to imagine a group of Dryads coming together and agreeing to aid a specific faction in an aggressive manner. So no.

Furbolgs - by far, easiest one from a lore perspective. Furbolgs are liked by Night Elves and there are furbolg factions in-game that you can befriend. A bid for the Night Elves to have a Furbolg faction join the Alliance would be plausible. Furbolgs might also be one of the very few other races that could play as Druids (need to confirm this, but seems plausible).

Draenei (Broken) - They aided the Alliance in wc2 during the Outland campaign. Some of the alliance soldiers did make it back before the portal closed (again), thus giving plausibility of bringing more Draenei or at least word of their deeds. They have also been done very dirty by the old Horde and are basically nomads because of them. Of all the NPC races in Azeroth, the Draenei have everything to gain from joining the Alliance and nothing to lose from going to war against the Horde.

Centaurs - less obvious, centaurs nevertheless have some characteristics that make them an option: they are known to accept outsiders (see Desolace factions) and they are big enemies of the Tauren. After Thrall helped the tauren in wc3 against the centaurs it's not too much of a stretch that a faction might get the bright idea to try and join the Alliance.

Blood Elves - while you could find a way to integrate blood elves both from Azeroth and Outland, this is a lazy design choice imo. It would be the 3rd elf race in the Alliance, identical to High Elves.

Naga - biggest stretch on the list, but remnants of the Naga were allied with the Blood Elves during the events of wc3ft. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but some in-game quests and stories would have to be implemented beforehand. Otherwise the transition would be too sudden and make no sense. This one also depends on where exactly t-wow wants to diverge from the official story line.

So while some would say Furbolgs are the most obvious choice, I would make a strong case for Draenei as being equally good if not a better choice.
- the race fits perfectly into the "nomad" type chosen by the dev team for new races, thus abandoning the need for a starter zone or capital;
- the race has a deeply rooted vendetta against the Horde;
- they have helped the Alliance in the past (albeit lore-wise, not in-game; still counts imo)
Also, personally:
- they look better than Furbolgs :D
- adding them would be a great excuse to flush out the village they have in Swamp of Sorrows, add a flight path, more quests for Alliance. Horde could get quests to stomp out alliance Draenei. You could have both factions have scouts in the area. It would be a great starting point for creating a pvp-oriented zone.

But this is just speculation. Any of these classes, even ogres, would need so much work done before they can reasonably be played, we'll probably see 3-5 more race threads before any official news.

[Pauloricardo]

My big concern with Furbolgs as an Alliance race is that Furbolgs are druidic and shamanistic.
Giving Alliance players a second Druid race could be balanced the same way they did it in Cataclysm with Troll Druids (Praise Gonk, Loa of Shapes!), but Alliance Shamans (and the Horde Paladins required for faction balance) are a contentious subject.

Not to mention the added workload of adding/animating new models for druid forms.

They could add a Shaman class for the Aliance(but at least one race) and add(after the ogres) 1 race for the Horde with the possibility to become Paladin.The question is: What race could it be? I can only Imagine Blood Elves...

[Kefke]

My big concern with Furbolgs as an Alliance race is that Furbolgs are druidic and shamanistic.
Giving Alliance players a second Druid race could be balanced the same way they did it in Cataclysm with Troll Druids (Praise Gonk, Loa of Shapes!), but Alliance Shamans (and the Horde Paladins required for faction balance) are a contentious subject.

Not to mention the added workload of adding/animating new models for druid forms.

They could add a Shaman class for the Aliance(but at least one race) and add(after the ogres) 1 race for the Horde with the possibility to become Paladin.The question is: What race could it be? I can only Imagine Blood Elves...

I've argued before that if Undead retain the ability to use the Light as Priests, they should be able to do the same for Paladins.

[Lightwave]

My big concern with Furbolgs as an Alliance race is that Furbolgs are druidic and shamanistic.
Giving Alliance players a second Druid race could be balanced the same way they did it in Cataclysm with Troll Druids (Praise Gonk, Loa of Shapes!), but Alliance Shamans (and the Horde Paladins required for faction balance) are a contentious subject.

Not to mention the added workload of adding/animating new models for druid forms.

They could add a Shaman class for the Aliance(but at least one race) and add(after the ogres) 1 race for the Horde with the possibility to become Paladin.The question is: What race could it be? I can only Imagine Blood Elves...

Well, if you want to take from the later lore...
We all know the Blood Elves and how terrible they are, so here's the two other Horde Paladin Races (and their lore)

Tauren (Cataclysm):
During the war with the Lich King (Wrath), the Tauren became aware of their bias towards Moon worship that they had unintentionally picked up via their druid connections with the Night Elves. Both the Sun and the Moon are the eyes of the Earth Mother, so the Sunwalkers were formed to balance out the Tauren reverence. They channeled the powers of An'she and became Paladins.

Zandalari Trolls (BFA):
Zandalari Troll Paladins are followers of Rezan, the Loa of Kings. They're the elite of the elite, blessed by the Loa from birth and molded into champions of Light.

The Tauren could probably be made to work, but the Troll one likely would not.

[Littlebirdd]

My big concern with Furbolgs as an Alliance race is that Furbolgs are druidic and shamanistic.
Giving Alliance players a second Druid race could be balanced the same way they did it in Cataclysm with Troll Druids (Praise Gonk, Loa of Shapes!), but Alliance Shamans (and the Horde Paladins required for faction balance) are a contentious subject.

Not to mention the added workload of adding/animating new models for druid forms.

They could add a Shaman class for the Aliance(but at least one race) and add(after the ogres) 1 race for the Horde with the possibility to become Paladin.The question is: What race could it be? I can only Imagine Blood Elves...

please no horde paladin

horde better be hard savages that never worship the light yeah?

[Galendor]

Well, speaking of shamanistic furbolgs: you see, they are tribal creatures, and different tribes could have different traditions. Some of them could be more about shamanism, some - more about druidism. Maybe, just maybe, playable furbolgs will be from a tribe where shamans are few in number? If we're talking about Gnarlpine refugees, they could lost their elders due to corruption and all who remain sane are starting to learn things from night elves. If it's Barkskin tribe, they already live in Hyjal where spirits of nature are very strong so it's no wonder they could have druids among them but not shamans.

[Karrados]

My big concern with Furbolgs as an Alliance race is that Furbolgs are druidic and shamanistic.
Giving Alliance players a second Druid race could be balanced the same way they did it in Cataclysm with Troll Druids (Praise Gonk, Loa of Shapes!), but Alliance Shamans (and the Horde Paladins required for faction balance) are a contentious subject.

Not to mention the added workload of adding/animating new models for druid forms.

They could add a Shaman class for the Aliance(but at least one race) and add(after the ogres) 1 race for the Horde with the possibility to become Paladin.The question is: What race could it be? I can only Imagine Blood Elves...

please no horde paladin
horde better be hard savages that never worship the light yeah?

Night Elves can be Priests too and they don't worship the Light either.

[Totuga]

While I believe that the current alliance is ay its sweet spot and we should add ogres to the horde without adding anything to the alliance, I would support broken (not pureform draenei. Only broken) joining the alliance. It is the only completely good case for an extra, non-lore breaking race I've seen (or if there is one, I can't find it).

I frankly admire your proposal, creativity and knowledge in this post Zulnam!

The "only problem" is that broken are shamanistic by nature. That is literally what makes them broken instead of light followers.
So far there are no dwarven shamies.
Adding broken to the alliance, with no shamies for whatever reason, would only make it feel even more dislodged than adding anything else.

[Pauloricardo]

While I believe that the current alliance is ay its sweet spot and we should add ogres to the horde without adding anything to the alliance, I would support broken (not pureform draenei. Only broken) joining the alliance. It is the only completely good case for an extra, non-lore breaking race I've seen (or if there is one, I can't find it).

I frankly admire your proposal, creativity and knowledge in this post Zulnam!

The "only problem" is that broken are shamanistic by nature. That is literally what makes them broken instead of light followers.
So far there are no dwarven shamies.
Adding broken to the alliance, with no shamies for whatever reason, would only make it feel even more dislodged than adding anything else.

Could Nobundo be their leaders?

[Galendor]

Well, in Vanilla draenei (lost ones) aren't as shamanistic as in Retail. Yeah, there are Seers in Fallow Sanctuary, but this group of draenei are hostile to everyone. As far as I know, draenei from the Harbourage - those who are friendly to players - have no shamanistic practices at all.

[Andromath]

I think to keep the Azeroth-centerred original classic experience, alliance could be extended for another human kindgom, like Stormgrade, Dalaran or Theramore.

I feel like High Elves should've come with Dalaran, honestly.

The largest population of High Elves outside of Quel'Thalas were those living in Dalaran. Dalaran itself is obviously a blend of human and elven architecture. It's location (over a leyline nexus) made it an ideal location for the High Elves to sate their addiction to magic.

I know lore from beyond Vanilla is not considered canon, but just as a talking point, the Chronicles made it a point to clarify that the majority of Dalaran's citizenry had been evacuated prior to Arthas' assault on it. Only a, 'skeleton crew of powerful Archmages,' had been left behind to organize it's defenses. So that (relatively) massive population of High Elves would've been intact.

Dalaran also had not left the Alliance as of Vanilla (although it's hard to say for certain if they ever left it, Blizzard has been extremely murky on that subject). Even in retail it took many different factors for the Horde to be granted entrance into the city, including the vouching of Jaina, Rhonin, and it's alluded Khadgar as well, and the presence of the Blood Elves within the Horde as well as Aethas, a member of the Council of Six, also vouching for the Horde. The real tipping point would've been the fact Dalaran was in significant danger and didn't want to turn away any aid.

Anyways, I'm somewhat off track.

Given that High Elves were not added to Turtle WoW through Dalaran, unless that sort of thing *can* change (and I don't see why they'd devote so much time and resources towards that), I suppose the only other possible race to come out of Dalaran would be Half-Elves. Maybe if Turtle WoW had stuck to the old High Elf models, the current ones might've worked as Half-Elves, but that wasn't the case, and at this point it feels like it might be too many elves.

I'd rather see the Dryads and Keepers of the Forest as a new playable race for the Alliance. I think they'd be pretty fascinating.