World Buffs & Cross-faction Stacking Rules

[Diy]

What prevents you from just putting NPCs in capitals with world buffs. Let's say 10g for 1 WB or 20g, you get the idea. Why go into mechanics and stack Shaman's totems + Paladin's blessings. Make WB for gold!

[Juozukas]

What prevents you from just putting NPCs in capitals with world buffs. Let's say 10g for 1 WB or 20g, you get the idea. Why go into mechanics and stack Shaman's totems + Paladin's blessings. Make WB for gold!

Or just give everyone permanent raid buffs starting level 1!

[Diy]

What prevents you from just putting NPCs in capitals with world buffs. Let's say 10g for 1 WB or 20g, you get the idea. Why go into mechanics and stack Shaman's totems + Paladin's blessings. Make WB for gold!

Or just give everyone permanent raid buffs starting level 1!

These npc can be placed in one of the dungeons or something like that. A matter of fantasy. Everything is solvable and you can think over so as not to be abused.

[Lordmikael]

I think removing world buffs will have overall bad point of server health , as it current state its more used to boost raid dmg , i think initial use was what it was for was really -WORLD BUFF-- so it means i can benefit lvling players ppls who lvl as HC , people who want do exact instances where this buffs come from, so removing buff its bullshit, stacking buffs its oke , if we got xfaction enabled, but deleting buff where all world got benefit from it not just hardcore raiders , its not good.

[Heimdallr]

I would encourage to some activities on the world both mechanically scripted and player/event driven that lead to some actions like team ups vs some mobs, pvp etc. It doesn't have to be tied to world buff...just make world more living and more PVP there please. Regarding stacking of pal + sha...that sounds OP, how about no? or rework whole buffing system so that people could feel more unique, for example now divine spirit is available to all so you lose a part of that uniqueness as a priest who had it, but we could do some of the buffs work in a way that people might wanna think what they want, but they lose something else. In example - if we talk only about Pally & Shammy, let the non stacking buffs give some cool differences so people would want to choose between them and fit their situation. If that is undoable as it would require rework of everything...I'd just say no. If they would stack just like that, pally + shammy would be meta everywhere, no?

[Juicyx]

What a subversive way of getting people to vote yes.

[Torta]

I just wanted to clarify: the announcement states that world buffs would still affect characters in the open world, but they wouldn't work inside the raids.

[Balake]

I just wanted to clarify: the announcement states that world buffs would still affect characters in the open world, but they wouldn't work inside the raids.

That will still affect players in the open world. If world buffs are removed from raids, guilds won't farm them and drop Hakkar and Dragonslayer buffs at specific time anymore, so other people can't get them.

[Bogyone]

I'm wondering if it'd be possible to let world buffs be present in instances and raids up to 10 players because. I would be happy with buff removal because when I got two buffs on my toon I was unwilling to let them waste while in LFT and essentially stopped playing my main.

[Geojak]

one alternative middle ground to satisfy both sides could be world buffs nerfs

Nerfing the effect of world buffs, like cutting all effects in half.
this way we could both allow pala and shaman to stack and still lower the acutal power of raids
and we can keep the wold buff gathering a thing for raiders that enjoy this activity, we just lower its impactm which is good and there is a smaller gap to unworldbuffed players

personally i dont know what i would prefer. all i know is blessing totem overriding must go

[Floatgoat]

When raiding consists of gathering world buffs before you can go the game is much less fun.

[Faustorgo]

So Torta, when are this changes gona be announc? maybe at end of the Month, theres mroe tha n 2x n Yes Poll, i just want to know :D

[Tendies]

.....

[Zulnam]

Just to clarify, I do not really care for world buffs. What i want is pali and shaman buffs to stack, so that one (or both) of these classes doesn't instantly get gimped when grouping together.

I don't see an issue if the content becomes easier. I mean it's an 18 year old game. How long are we expected to sweat over AQ40 and Naxx? My wrists aren't getting any younger.

[Mechaslav]

If I need the buffs to cut it before I get my raid gear what's the point in getting to 60? That's really my only concern, mostly due to inexperience.

[Velite]

If I need the buffs to cut it before I get my raid gear what's the point in getting to 60? That's really my only concern, mostly due to inexperience.

As of now, you can complete all content in the game without using world buffs. It's totally doable so long as you meet the gear requirements as a raid and use consumables and follow mechanics. World buffs purely exist to cut down on time and increase your maximum hits. If your raid is relying on world buffs to kill a boss period, then you're not prepared for it to begin with and that's just taking shortcuts.

The point to getting 60 is that BWL and all further raids require you to be level 60 to enter. And most raid gear past MC requires level 60 to equip. The point is also to go and focus on getting your pre-raid gear before you step into an instance so you're at least prepared to upgrade those slots to the next step. And I don't mean upgrade that you strictly need those items to get the next ones, but that it shows the other people in the raid that you aren't just there straight fresh 60 looking for a gear handout.

[Isvya]

If you are really going to remove WBs then at least consider removing the debuff slot cap too.

[Greatgrass]

If you are really going to remove WBs then at least consider removing the debuff slot cap too.

this is a fantastic suggestion. please do.

[Martikos]

+1

[Kuz]

If you are really going to remove WBs then at least consider removing the debuff slot cap too.

THIS

[Neoulous]

Actually taking this decision is imposing this solution to optimised people who make logistic to take it and don’t want it.

Why don’t we give both ? Instead of killing a part of the game because it was not in the origin ?

Please take it in consideration. With keeping it, people will always have the choice. If you remove it, there will be no choice.

[Neoulous]

Don’t forget WB are reducing dps gap between geared people and no-geared people. At last, only gear will talk in raid, so why doing raid if there is no competition ?

[Suggney]

We're against this approach because the leveling folk will become raiders one day, they should be able to have a say on their future.

Is there no loyalty to those who've actually been here long enough to better gauge the impact of changes? This feels like pandering to the new population influx.

You're only hurting the people who are raiding higher tier content. Those who raid for fun instead of gear will have less fun; those who raid for gear will no longer have the assistance of the raiders who are no longer having fun - and suddenly their fun might just be gone too.

I get you're a small dev team looking to make everybody happy, but pause. You advertise as an RP server, yet have thrown out nearly all support for roleplayers beyond transmogrification and assisting players in events they made. You advertise as a PVE server, yet incentivize PVP with experience bonuses and now seek to remove an integral part of doing PVE content faster. You've advertised class changes, yet they've done more for the PVP scene - which you do not advertise as - than they have in shaking up the raiding meta.

Please, consolidate the things Turtle already has. Focus on what you've already changed and improve those things. There's existing cracks to mend, and this change is driving a new one. Don't take candy from a baby before you can replace it.

[Redmagejoe]

Is there no loyalty to those who've actually been here long enough to better gauge the impact of changes? This feels like pandering to the new population influx.

And this sounds like demanding bending a knee only to the old guard / elite / whatever you want to call it while ignoring the fresh blood. No matter how you look at it, so long as you try to frame it as "being about specific group of people" instead of accepting that it's a design decision that affects other aspects of development and balance, it's going to be reductive. Let's try to avoid asking loaded questions like "HAST THOU NO LOYALTY?!" in this topic and actually try to discuss the change on its merits or shortcomings.

[Chnams]

If you are really going to remove WBs then at least consider removing the debuff slot cap too.

This oh god please this

[Ayesha]

After reading through this forum I think this would make sense:
If you want to remove world buffs from raids, you need to buff casters in raids - because that’s were they are getting nerfed compared to melees.

The way to balance this could be:
1. Removing or increasing the debuff slot cap
2. Increasing moonkin aura spell crit chance

Maybe shadow priests and arcane mages as well other caster classes have something else to say.

[Shamma]

Remove WBs, buff raids too at the same time. One thing SoM did right. Enough with the old boring raids ppl can do with their eyes closed.

[Lagtime]

id rather quit then have longer raid nights, just make the content harder instead of pleasing filthy casuals that never raid anyways.
your gonna end up with fewer raids/pugs iff people dont need new zg / ony buffs
id rather see a gold sink vendor selling world buffs if preparing is to stressfull for some then full removal.

better remove people turning pvp flag off too in contested zones how could someone steal a node/herb without a fight for it? its world of (grief)warcraft not hug a tree craft..

world pvp on best farming spots is what makes a mmo feel alive

[Lagtime]

Season of mastery had no world buffs we all saw what a flop that was.
iff you cant manage to get your world buffs being summond by guild alts because your working all day get them the day before? or accept not parsing 1 week. removing the fun for some because most people are lazy is.....

[Redmagejoe]

Season of Mastery was a flop for many more reasons than simply "no world buffs". Let's try not to oversimplify that trainwreck. Also your takes in general from your only two posts are anything but the common outlook of the server population, I'm sorry to say.

[Velite]

Season of mastery had no world buffs we all saw what a flop that was.
iff you cant manage to get your world buffs being summond by guild alts because your working all day get them the day before? or accept not parsing 1 week. removing the fun for some because most people are lazy is.....

Except it's the developers asking this question. Not a player. And it's not about effort to get them or anything like that either. It's about class changes.

[Elonamusk]

To pretend that anyone will use Tranquil Air totem even if it stacks with Salvation is hilarious.

[Shamma]

To pretend that anyone will use Tranquil Air totem even if it stacks with Salvation is hilarious.

/sarcasm end?

[Xef42]

World buffs being removed and shaman totems stacking with paladin blessings could be the best change yet.

[Riktor]

As a hunter, I'd be behind this change if you make Blessing of Might also be for ranged attack power vs. just melee attack power.

We don't get the benefit from strength of earth totem stacking with Blessing of Kings, we will literally never get grace of air totem over warriors/rogues in our groups getting windfury.

Stacking a hunter group doesn't make sense since Trueshot aura doesn't stack etc.

Hunter's don't really gain anything in this situation outside of now kings isn't overwritten by strength of earth.