Taking breaks in pvp

[Geojak]

Ever repacked rank X after months of pvp grind and felt like, I can't continue, I nee a break. But what about rank x+1?

Later? Well first you gotta grind back, because you will lose almost everything depending how long you take a break. Feel burn out yet?

How about a custom quests, it costs 100g,and can be done unlimited times inside the officer instance. It's called "military reinlistment" and it basically gives you your all time highest pvp rank back it 0% toward the next.

Making it cost gold will prevent it to be abused by coordinated bracket control or using this all the time.

[Geojak]

personally i would love to continue pvp ranking later on after a break, but knowing how long needed just to get to this point and knowing how long i will spend just to get back to where i left of, this is likely the end of pvp for me.

i am 100% conviced there are lots and lots of people that have similiar experiences.

making it possible to come back to pvpv after a break will immensiely help the pvp scene and everyone involved.

making it not free is fair if you dont like making stuff easier for free. 100g is a fair amount of gold.

[Geojak]

similair but old suggestion: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2902&p=19446#p19446

[Fornow]

Honestly after having played on WOTLK server (ChromiCraft) vanilla WoW's honor system just feels so fundamentally broken. In WOTLK you just gain honor linearly and it never decays. So you can work your way up to specific items you want over a long period of time. No penalty for only playing a couple of hours every week, switching between different alts or taking extended breaks.

Vanilla in comparison feels so punishing in comparison, I can't even...
And on top of that Turtle is fully progressed with Naxxramas chars that have more spell power on their staff than a recently level capped 60 on her entire gear.

[Absolon]

Honestly after having played on WOTLK server (ChromiCraft) vanilla WoW's honor system just feels so fundamentally broken. In WOTLK you just gain honor linearly and it never decays. So you can work your way up to specific items you want over a long period of time. No penalty for only playing a couple of hours every week, switching between different alts or taking extended breaks.

Vanilla in comparison feels so punishing in comparison, I can't even...
And on top of that Turtle is fully progressed with Naxxramas chars that have more spell power on their staff than a recently level capped 60 on her entire gear.

yeah i agree, post vanilla honor system is much better

[Geojak]

the post tbc ranking system only works in my opiinon, because you got arena with its ranking system as a better replacement.

but we dot have enough players to rly make our blood ring ranked, it isnt even corss faction to begin with and doesnt give deserter debuff so exploiting it is prelavat to pick your friends as opponents.

i thing we have to stick with the vanilla system, because the tbc system is too cacual and we dont have a workign arnea system for the pvp eenthusiasts.

i am conviced my suggestion that allows breaks is a great compromise for everyone.

pls Devs, a quest for 100 gold (repeatable) to restore yourself back to your life time highest rank. i am not asking for much, pls.

[Qixel]

The Vanilla pvp system is not about skill. No one actually believes being r14 makes you good. I'm a grand marshal on three of my characters. I'm fairly certain anyone in this thread could thrash me. All being r14 proves is that you had more time than anyone else to play at the right time of day, and at the time I did it, I did have more time than anyone else on the server, hands down. I got two characters to rank 14 in the same week, in fact; but I am awful at pvp.

Let people get their gear without being gated by people like me for the crime of not having the ability to spend enough time at the right times.

[Evillord]

I disagree with the idea we should stick with the current system, due to burning crusade being two casual. since well, wow was once the casual mmo. You didn't lose exp or levels on death. While in something like everquest, you did lose exp on death. Being more casual is not always a bad thing.

While we look at retail wow and what they did with shadowlands and the gear vault. Need to pvp, do pve and some raiding. To get a chance at gear that might be a upgrade. Going to hardcore can be a negative in it's own right.

Which speaking about the honor system in the game. Well long grinds are nothing new to og wow here. Like any enchanter and the reps they need to grind out, to get certain enchantments. Only the difference between them and pvp is rather simple. Timbermaw Hold rep, you can start grinding it out. Stop whenever you please without losing any progress. While Pvp, taking a break can lead to lose of progress. Paying a 100 gold to restore yourself back to your highest title. Which would be a improvement over the current system. It would still be a punishment for a player not pvping all the time. Just a lesser one. Since time still needs to be spend on farming gold to get back your rank.

While treating honor as something like gold, when it comes to buying pvp gear. Would make it more in line with other grinds in game. Keep on doing x until you get y reward. Helping to avoid punishment, for not wanting to spend all your time pvp or playing the game. Possibly lessen the grind, depending on the honor cost of the items. Which if that ends up being the case, could possibly make pvp more fair. Since people could more easily gear up, leading to more fair matches. Well as fair as the current balance of the game allows. For you shouldn't have to no life a game just for some gear. Which is petty much what the rank 14 grind is, trade away your life for weeks, if not months just to get some gear. Which seems like a bit to much to ask for. For if the rewards are easier to get, it might make pvp more appealing to folks. For I done my fair share of av battlegrounds and never once seen it be a full on 40 vs 40. Most I seen was mid to high 20s on both sides.

Now of course some issues that might come up. For I recall in season of mastery, pvp gear being so good and easy to get your hands on. It render early raid gear rather pointless. So might need to keep an eye on things there. For ideally both pvp and pve should be good ways of getting your hands on quality gear. To let people gear up their characters by spending time on things they are most interested in.

Overall I believe changing it, even without a ranking for the pvp arena. Would be better than just keeping it the same. For the flaws are rather clear in the current pvp system. It not about skill, it about time and the time it demands from you is simply to great. making honor spendable like gold, for pvp gear would allow more casual players with less playing time to be on more equal footing with these who can no life the game. For while yes it might take them longer to get the gear, they won't lose progress for simply being unable to play the game. For a pvp ranking arena system can also be added in later, after the issues with the system are fixed. Since we don't have enough pvp players to fill up a single av. I don't think an arena ranking system is going to be that desirable until later on, after we fix the current issues and the pvp player base for battleground has grown a bit.

[Fornow]

For a pvp ranking arena system can also be added in later, after the issues with the system are fixed. Since we don't have enough pvp players to fill up a single av. I don't think an arena ranking system is going to be that desirable until later on, after we fix the current issues and the pvp player base for battleground has grown a bit.

Agreed. I personally know several players who don't bother with PVP at all (anymore) because of honor decay, myself included. It's just too much of a grind. With a better honor system I can see PVP becoming more enticing as a casual activity that you mix with the rest of your playtime. Now and then I get the urge to play some battlegrounds but when I do, I'm certainly not logging in to Turtle for that.

VanillaWoW's game design was built around the monthly subscription model. The longer players play, the more they pay. It's no secret that the game is grindy, however in all the other ways forms of gameplay there's major safeguards in place that prevent you from regressing: you don't lose experience when you die, reputation mostly only goes up and almost never down, you can't "undiscover" a flight point and broken equipment can always be repaired.

Honor/rank decay then is qualitatively very different. When my character dies in PvE I'm punished with durability loss and that's fine because I'm generally able to control whether that happens or not. It's a punishment and I'm incentivized to get better. When I mismanage my expenses and end up with no gold that's also on me. But with the honor system I'm being punished for what exactly? Why, not playing the game of course! It reminds me of those predatory gacha games with rewards that you can claim only if you log in for a certain number of consecutive days. Imagine every week 10% of your gold would go poof or logging back into a deleveled level 52 toon after taking a vacation.

As such, attempting the higher ranks in PvP makes it prohibitively inefficient to engage in other forms of gameplay. One of the strong points of such an ambitious game as wow is that you can mix and match the different forms of gameplay like leveling, dunpeoneering, gathering, crafting, raiding, socializing, role-playing, exploration and the game is better for it. But by virtue of honor decay you're much better off dulling yourself out with the same type of activity. Playing long stretches of time rather than spreading out your gaming sessions with breaks in between isn't healthy either but again honor decay actively encourages it. It's antithetical to the slow and steady spirit that Turtle WoW otherwise propagates.

I should also mention the irony that the entire Horde vs Alliance theme is at a discrepancy with the actual gameplay system when you're competing against your own faction for ranks (and therefore character progression), not the enemy as it should be.

Now here's the good news: with Turtle WoW there is no subscription model at all. And there is no upcoming expansion either that's going to soft reset your power level either. No reason to pressure players at all to continously log in. People can and should just log on because the game is fun to them. And they are more likely to donate when they enjoy themselves. So why keep this system this way? I see no reason to do just that.

As for the balance between PvP and PvE gear when there is no honor decay: I'm sure the numbers can be fine tuned to give a good balance. As Turtle is already into Vanilla+ territory I can also see the devs revamping PvP gear a bit to introduce more pieces with selective boni that aid against other players more so than in dungeons or raids. Pieces like the warrior gear that reduces intercept cooldown.

[Geojak]

Bump

[Philipred]

Hello,

I was looking how honor decay worked on this server, i must assume it works the same way Oficial vanilla wow does, right?

I guess many ppl made lots of suggestions, old pvp system is horrible, i hope it changes

[Dasenel]

What grind are you talking about. I saw people on Turtle with 9-10k hks and they are r13-14. I did ranking in wow classic it took me 30k hks+ to reach r10 and 70%. No breaks and we aren't even mentioning people were ranking during vanilla times.

About arena ranking system or so called rating system. Big no no from me. This is one of the main problems of wow becoming more competitive game and less and less rpg game. We love vanilla mainly because its a mmoRPG not moba or smth like that. when you implement such competitive elements like arena with rating and leaderboards you have to "balance" the classes making them less unique. But here comes the real thing, wow was created as a PVE game so the pve balance was always the main priority. and is should be this way in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I myself enjoy pvp and pvped in wow from wotlk till bfa often even more than doing pve.

Keep wow pvp fun. keep it massive, keep the mayhem \m/

[Geojak]

Since you asked about what grind.

I did grind to rank 10 in spring it took me months because I don't have the time and health to grind hours everyday. So I pures very minute of playtime in.

After months I had enough of pvp upon rank 10 and wanted to experience other parts of the game.

Now a few months later I have dropped back to rank 7. And feel refreshed and better geared. I would love to try for rank 11 or 12 but no way In hell am I just rank for 2 months just to ger back to tank 10.

What does this mean for me and ppl like me?

We are essentially lsor for the pvp Pop. We would like to get back in, but we don't want to be punished this excessively for tanking breaks.

I think a repeatable qeust charging 100g inside the officer hall (so need atelast some rank) to restore some part of your previous rank is not too much to ask, has barely if any negative effects on how hard it is to reach rank 14 besides you can take breaks now.

[Tedris]

The honor system is trash and it doesnt matter if it takes 10k hks or 100k hks to reach r14, a dumb system stays a dumb system.

The problem i see with current pvp, and why not even an AV will fill up, is that BG´s arent that enjoyable to a lot of people. The most fun pvp i ever did in vanilla were duels infront of OG/IF and Arena later on in TBC/WOTLK.

With an overhaul to the honor system (making it linear as already suggested in this thread) and fixing blood ring (crossfaction, deserter, etc.) there will be a better pvp experience for all i would believe. Arena kills shouldnt count as honorable kills and instead award a currency (arena points ).

The new PVP gear should cost honor, gold, and arena points, so that all options will see people doing it.
To fix pvp gear and to make pve gear less powerful in pvp situations, there is already a nice suggestion here.
Basically make pve gear with more stam and less dmg and make it have effects like stun, fear, cc resist.

While you are at it, get rid of the bg specific marks of honor, since this system is completely dumb imho.

[Philipred]

I suggest 1 main Bg per day (bonus honor) but not closing the others
It would also be nice to get items paying honor, gold and/or marks
Remove FOR EVER rank system, so ppl can grind honor at their own pace.
Ppl will get rank 14 items? probably, but WE ALL can get them, and in a server with Naxx gear, it doesnt seem so unfair.

[Patadepalo]

Remove honor decays , please..
Or do something like "i pay 100golds for recover my honor status 3 months later... "

[Geojak]

Yes pls, this is such a big barrier to pvp returners

And it also doesn't completely change the system.
So a good compromise

[Jammyxx]

I used to play another priv server in 2012 and they had a system where if you didn't pvp for a week (enough to get no standing) then you were considered taking a break and your rank didn't decay for that week., so technically you could break at rank 13, then come back in months etc and start from there.

[Zulnam]

Much rather prefer the "nerf decay, remove deranking" suggestion on discord, and even that is not an ideal solution imo.

2005's ranking system promotes self-abuse and an unhealthy life style. Every player who started back in vanilla knows of at least one story of someone having their life ruined because of it (failing education, getting fired, divorce).

It should be flat out illegal; but in lack of that it is imoral to still have it, to say the least.

Completely change the system.

[Jammyxx]

Id always thought it would be better to base Ranks on Honorable Kills Rather than the mindless grind Blizzard made in Vanilla , would be something like

50 HK - Rank 1
250 HK - Rank 2
1000 HK - Rank 3
2500 HK - Rank 4
5000 HK - Rank 5
7500 HK - Rank 6
10000 HK - Rank 7
15000 HK - Rank 8
20000 HK - Rank 9
25000 HK - Rank 10
30000 HK - Rank 11
40000 HK - Rank 12
50000 HK - Rank 13
75000 HK - Rank 14

We could obviously tweak the HK required, as I know 75000 on this server isn't reasonable.

The only issue with this would be people farming Hks instead of doing the objectives in BG, but we could fix this by rewarding bonus 'HK' for winning the match.

[Schwarzschild]

The Vanilla rank system is and has always been extremely unhealthy and unfair garbage. Clinging to it has nothing to do with Vanilla+ imo.

[Fornow]

Id always thought it would be better to base Ranks on Honorable Kills Rather than the mindless grind Blizzard made in Vanilla ,

Well focusing purely on kills discourages supportive play styles in battle grounds like scouting, healing or disruption. Especially healers are disadvantaged already in the current system as healing doesn't gain you any honor but is crucial to effective team play. And some classes/specs are just much more likely to get killing blows than others.

If anything winning by fulfilling the objective should most contribute to the reward (whichever form it takes) and kill counts should only play a minimal role.