Survival Rested XP is BAD.

[Sapiverenus]

It's too high

The rested experience from tents is way too high

Overall experience gain and content needs work, but I'm keeping this topic to one focused problem.

It shouldn't stack and it should be 1/30 the rate. Bright fire should provide 1/15 the rate of rested XP that a tent provides.

When raining heavily; Bright fire rested XP should be 1/30 rate unless there's a tent one is under. Overall this allows players to take a break and get a small jump back into action after 5 - 15 minutes with a somewhat immersive mechanic that helps less sweaty players not completely fall behind semi-professional levelers (good luck lol).

Rested XP from tent and fire should be limited to a combined total of 1/3 a total XP bar. Logged in Rested XP is unnecessary but at least it's somewhat immersive.
When logged out, rested XP should not be provided from tents and fires (not sure what it is now). The max rested XP from cities and tents/fires combined should be 1 full experience bar (not calculated up for the next level).


The reason rested experience exists is to help players level at a similar rate. This creates more social friction and interaction.
Rested XP is not meant to make a significant impact on the game and never should, as XP rates have a significant purpose.
Just as important, the experience rate is already as it is so players will be able to complete the quests of an area without out-leveling it half-way through.

There's good reason to make questing in an area underlevel you for the next zone in fact. . . instead of being "The One", you are "part of the world".

The point of low XP rates is an investment in an area and its development; an appreciation for writing, aesthetic, [and emergent engagement/gaming which is mostly tied to LEVEL and EXPLORATION in this game hence why it's important to get XP Right and have it be the same for everyone! and hence why LFG is BAD; it breaks immersion and turns the game into a toy rather than an involved experience. There are better ways of making a game than quick-fixes patched in by Blizzard. Meeting Stones also recieve some of my animosity due to how placeholder they are, but I'll keep my suggestions for those in another thread.]

That sums it up.

Extra:

I don't see the point of creating a "vanilla+" server just to turn it into a circus that throws out the RPG from MMORPG every other wave of new players. Just go WotLK private or Retail.

If experience rate is the same for everyone, you'll be leveling with others. If a significant portion of players sit in X-Roads for 2x XP just to skip around to do half or a third of the quests in a zone, then it's just a worse kind of single player game. What's the point?

Slow the game down instead of speeding it up. Add more to the game so there's more reason to slowly level. Add immersion. Add story. Carefully and thoughtfully improve.


Not sure how the rested XP cities provide works exactly, maybe it has a limit such as providing rested XP for 24 - 48 hours since last login, but
I got 2.5 mini bars of rested XP out of 20 from logging out in Undercity for 10 or so hours. 2.5/20 bars. I even laid down in a coffin at the Inn. It's about what it should be.

I'm not sure what's social or immersive about x2 XP for meMers, and 1x XP for everyone that wants to play a slow-paced, immersive MMORPG. If anything, the ADHD 'meMers' should be 'forced' to play the game as it's intended.

A tent gives 2.5 mini-bars in 90 seconds or so. It should be 2.5 mini-bars in 45 minutes, or 15 minutes if you have a bright fire as well.

And limit it to 5 players per tent. First 5 to get the aura get the rested XP. 20 players per Bright Fire. And limit the range of the tent and fire to be very limited.


Challenge to anyone reading: Think of what a good 80 hour level 1 - 20 custom experience would be.

EDIT: I slightly edited the challenge to say "custom** experience".

[Gantulga]

I actually agree. I found it utterly ridiculous and immersion breaking. The stacking is just absurd.

How does slow & steady even make any sense with tents?

[Zyrael]

No thanks, having rested xp is fun.

[Pantheon]

I kind of agree. I feel like im out leveling zones fast. Unlike actual Vanilla that I played back in '04, I can get to level 10 in like 1.5 - 2 hours on a new character. It feels off, like Vanilla 1.5. You can get to level 10 in retail in like 30 minutes.

I dont feel the rested XP is the culprit here. The Devs peppered in little quests in already existing quest zones outside of their custom zones. I feel like the added quest zones summed up between multiple zones here is the culprit. Maybe a 15% decrease to quest XP so you dont outlevel a zone as quickly.

And in a similar vein here, the drop rate on green gear is too damn high for a Vanilla aesthetic. I should feel put through the ringer on stat gear(Green+) drops and it sould be significant. Now all im getting is a fast way to level enchanting.

[Dasenel]

It is really strange
1) devs create new locations, quests and lore, develop story
2) then implement ultrafast leveling with rested experience in tents
3) in the end players not even skip half of the location but less and less sign up for dungeons while leveling because what for?

[Pantheon]

It's advertised as Vanilla x1

It should realistically be advertised as Vanilla x2

Not because the XP gained is doubled, but the rate at which you gain XP is doubled. If that makes sense...

[Tedris]

Well...everyone knows you feel double as rested if you have two roofs over your head instead of only one!

No, jokes aside. I personally really dislike the slow pace of vanilla leveling, but i even dislike the tent thing even more. It feels so extremeley artificial and forced. If you would cut back rested bonus and stacking of tents you effectively kill the current purpose of tents.

I would personally like it more if tents, and survival in general, had a completely other purpose rather than giving rested XP. Maybe building a shop which you can restock every now and then in certain locations, using it like a personal auction house only with your stuff.

As for tents itself maybe they can just provide normal rested xp, so you can logout instantly and dont bother going back to an inn and still receive the rested xp whilst logged out even you are in the no where.

[Talrassan]

I agree that tents and their rested XP seem broken, although I do enjoy the social gatherings they create.

I would personally like it more if tents, and survival in general, had a completely other purpose rather than giving rested XP. Maybe building a shop which you can restock every now and then in certain locations, using it like a personal auction house only with your stuff.

As for tents itself maybe they can just provide normal rested xp, so you can logout instantly and dont bother going back to an inn and still receive the rested xp whilst logged out even you are in the no where.

I think both of these ideas sound pretty good, too.
(Check out the field engineer topic if you'd like to see another survival-related suggestion. )

[Gantulga]

As for tents itself maybe they can just provide normal rested xp, so you can logout instantly and dont bother going back to an inn and still receive the rested xp whilst logged out even you are in the no where.

That should have been the tent's function to begin with.

There's nothing more ridiculous than seeing a stack of tents with people inside right outside of an inn.

[Pantheon]

There's nothing more ridiculous than seeing a stack of tents with people inside right outside of an inn.

"Yo that warm Inn fancy and all, but this pile of sticks stuffed full of sweaty adventurers just kinda slaps tho, so imma pass"

Goes AFK

[Phoenixphire]

I get where you are coming from. I personally don't care TOOOOO much about the immersion breaking from tents and I like that it makes people gather in areas. But if they changed it to be more immersive somehow I would like that. BUT, adding caps to how many people can use them at once is a bad idea and will create player conflict over what is supposed to be a community building mechanic. IE "DUDE LEAVE UR TAKING UP ONE OF OUR RESTED XP SPOTS."

In terms of pacing, it is one of the most important parts of vanilla wow in my opinion and I agree that the heavy amounts of rested combined with added quests messes up the pacing a little bit for sure. But you aren't gonna make the game better by just making it slower. You have to fill that time with new quests, rare spawns, maybe even rare little events (a worgen attack in duskwood) and group activities. Right now I agree that the pacing is a little fast and the rested should be nerfed, BUT if you wanna make the leveling even SLOWER you better have some damn good content to stuff that time full of especially when players are gonna be mad they are going slower than they think they should.

TLDR: I agree to an extent, don't cap player amounts for tents just nerf the rested gain to fix the pacing of leveling which is very important. If you wanna make leveling even slower you better add new amazing quests, npcs, events, dungeons, rares, rare encounters, items, talents, and spells to enjoy during this slower leveling.

[Karrados]

At the end of the day no one forces you to use the tents. They are entirely optional.

If people feel like they are outleveling the zones too quickly while having both permanent Rested XP and Warmode then it feels like a "You did this yourself" situation, you decided to go to a tent and just wait there for the XP to stack up.

Them being included doesn't harm you in any way, just leave them be.

[Tedris]

I would rather make an option to level x2 flatout for those who want it and give tents an actual purpose other than making dudes go afk under it and stacking them to 4 floors.

[Leathertank]

>Just as important, the experience rate is already as it is so players will be able to complete the quests of an area without out-leveling it half-way through.


For many of us, this is our 20th+ toon and get no enjoyment from doing the same things over and over, the rested xp boost makes it closer to retail leveling, which is what a lot of new players are used to. I think that players who want to level slower can go S&S, those who want a normal experience don't tent, and people who want to play faster use tents & war mode.

I think the team is attempting to account for all playstyles, whereas you would like others to use your.


-Jerry

[Thol]

Ironically even Slow & Steady is faster than regular vanilla leveling because it only reduces XP from mobs kills outside of instances, quests still give full XP and there are more of them now (which is great), also grey quests still give full XP (25 level range). I don't get the tents bonus and +30% XP from War Mode either, as this seems to contradict Turtle WoW original vision, maybe there was too many complaints from retail players, so they implemented those to attract them.

[Pantheon]

Ironically even Slow & Steady is faster than regular vanilla leveling because it only reduces XP from mobs kills outside of instances, quests still give full XP and there are more of them now (which is great), also grey quests still give full XP (25 level range). I don't get the tents bonus and +30% XP from War Mode either, as this seems to contradict Turtle WoW original vision, maybe there was too many complaints from retail players, so they implemented those to attract them.

I feel like no matter what, and no matter what initial vision for a server we have, as long as Devs take suggestions we will see retailification in some capacity. QoL changes, XP boosts in some form, just overall ease of playing tedious aspects will be smoothed out.

[Sapiverenus]

I get where you are coming from. I personally don't care TOOOOO much about the immersion breaking from tents and I like that it makes people gather in areas. But if they changed it to be more immersive somehow I would like that. BUT, adding caps to how many people can use them at once is a bad idea and will create player conflict over what is supposed to be a community building mechanic. IE "DUDE LEAVE UR TAKING UP ONE OF OUR RESTED XP SPOTS."

Tents have limited space. Build a second tent. In what situation do you create a tent amongst a dozen of people [in the pouring rain] and act surprised when someone tries to hog a spot?

There's nothing inherently community building about a tent anyway. Either the game is designed as an immersive world that's the focus of every player, or it isn't. If it isn't, then players are shallow and selfish because the game is simply a toy they are entertaining themself with.

In terms of pacing, it is one of the most important parts of vanilla wow in my opinion and I agree that the heavy amounts of rested combined with added quests messes up the pacing a little bit for sure. But you aren't gonna make the game better by just making it slower. You have to fill that time with new quests, rare spawns, maybe even rare little events (a worgen attack in duskwood) and group activities. Right now I agree that the pacing is a little fast and the rested should be nerfed, BUT if you wanna make the leveling even SLOWER you better have some damn good content to stuff that time full of especially when players are gonna be mad they are going slower than they think they should.

It's already quicker than Vanilla and I agree that a more interesting game would be beneficial to everyone and would be conducive to a slower pace.

No thanks, having rested xp is fun.

There's nothing fun about people zerging to a server for no good reason when they can play on a server that suits them better. Give me your reason for not playing on a server that suits your "fun" better; I'd like the insight and so would others.

I kind of agree. I feel like im out leveling zones fast. Unlike actual Vanilla that I played back in '04, I can get to level 10 in like 1.5 - 2 hours on a new character. It feels off, like Vanilla 1.5. You can get to level 10 in retail in like 30 minutes.

I dont feel the rested XP is the culprit here. The Devs peppered in little quests in already existing quest zones outside of their custom zones. I feel like the added quest zones summed up between multiple zones here is the culprit. Maybe a 15% decrease to quest XP so you dont outlevel a zone as quickly.

And in a similar vein here, the drop rate on green gear is too damn high for a Vanilla aesthetic. I should feel put through the ringer on stat gear(Green+) drops and it sould be significant. Now all im getting is a fast way to level enchanting.

It is really strange
1) devs create new locations, quests and lore, develop story
2) then implement ultrafast leveling with rested experience in tents
3) in the end players not even skip half of the location but less and less sign up for dungeons while leveling because what for?

It's advertised as Vanilla x1

It should realistically be advertised as Vanilla x2

Not because the XP gained is doubled, but the rate at which you gain XP is doubled. If that makes sense...

Exactly. There's a psychology to everything as well; "Why dungeon when it's just a leveling gimmick?". Everyone just sees gimmicks and thus start mentally competing or idea-generating for the greater gimmick instead of an actually greater experience. It's the rotten creep that people try to avoid when they search up a Vanilla server yet here it is.

No, jokes aside. I personally really dislike the slow pace of vanilla leveling

Why did you sign up for "Turtle Vanilla WoW"? Serious question.
I want a better leveling experience but not a faster one that trivializes the world. We're not on the same page.

I would personally like it more if tents, and survival in general, had a completely other purpose rather than giving rested XP. Maybe building a shop which you can restock every now and then in certain locations, using it like a personal auction house only with your stuff.

As for tents itself maybe they can just provide normal rested xp, so you can logout instantly and dont bother going back to an inn and still receive the rested xp whilst logged out even you are in the no where.

Shopkeepers have nothing to do with "Survival" and creating random soulless NPCs just kills the world. It should mean more than tents and campfires though. Creating shopkeepers is pretty lame and can only be much of a convenience when leveling and gearing is so fast that 10 minutes travelling and auctioning is extremely time and resource-inefficient.

It's a parasite in diseased rotting flesh, not a solution.

You might as well be beating a dead game to death. It's more like you're trying to sabotage the server than contribute to it. Economic assassination would be a Kotick thing to do afterall [probably cheaper than lawyers LOL].

I agree that tents and their rested XP seem broken, although I do enjoy the social gatherings they create.

There is no social experience involved. Just people idling in a game that they barely have the urge to invest time into, sometimes repeating memes they've heard or whatever ancestral echo of monkey howling.

That should have been the tent's function to begin with.

There's nothing more ridiculous than seeing a stack of tents with people inside right outside of an inn.

True. Would be a quick and easy fix. Darker Nights + slower XP gain + some rest XP from tents and bright fire would be good though. Tie crafting ability to ability to 'see' and it's even better. Maybe .5 XP gain, 1.5/20 bars of rested XP from 10 minutes of sitting by a bright fire under a tent, and 2/20 bars of rested XP from a lot of food and water amounting to 5 minutes of sitting. Make greens rare, add more scripted events, rewrite some things, and it's a more finished and well-made game.

At the end of the day no one forces you to use the tents. They are entirely optional.

If people feel like they are outleveling the zones too quickly while having both permanent Rested XP and Warmode then it feels like a "You did this yourself" situation, you decided to go to a tent and just wait there for the XP to stack up.

Them being included doesn't harm you in any way, just leave them be.

Don't be a push-over. It's not an MMO if everyone is living in their own separate reality.

I would rather make an option to level x2 flatout for those who want it and give tents an actual purpose other than making dudes go afk under it and stacking them to 4 floors.

No one designs a game for random experience rates. A game designed for .5x current rates has an entirely different development focus than a game designed for 2x current rates. You're also a pushover. Nothing gets done being apathetic and completely disengaged from other players. There's nothing appealing about it and no one that wants to play an MMO wants that. How does one even get into your mindset besides from despair and suffering of some variety?

>Just as important, the experience rate is already as it is so players will be able to complete the quests of an area without out-leveling it half-way through.


For many of us, this is our 20th+ toon and get no enjoyment from doing the same things over and over, the rested xp boost makes it closer to retail leveling, which is what a lot of new players are used to. I think that players who want to level slower can go S&S, those who want a normal experience don't tent, and people who want to play faster use tents & war mode.

I think the team is attempting to account for all playstyles, whereas you would like others to use your.
-Jerry

I agree that the same thing over and over generally isn't fun. I don't see why you are playing on a mostly unchanged Vanilla for your 20+ toon or think that new players want higher XP rates or that they're coming from Retail. It's just an assumption. I haven't played much of any expansion for instance, and played the recent expansion trial to lvl 20.

You can't appeal to everyone and trying to is just watering things down. There's nothing better about a facade of enlightenment. Everyone who wants a new experience can play one of several other expansions or a new game; all a Vanilla server has is either "No Changes" to avoid this playerbase fracturing and "many people playing near eachother but not with eachother" issue. . . . which Blizzard has. . . . or to try and Develop a game from the Vanilla baseline into something better ->> which is "Vanilla+".

How often do people have to act like playing a single player game for the 20th time makes sense? It's an MMO. Either it's a shared experience or it's not. The issue is the lack of development, and splitting the playerbase while neglecting content creation and pulling the developers in 10 directions with shit ideas (which means pushing in 0 direction) just makes it worse for anyone wanting to make their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. . . 10th or 20th character. If you're sticking around for the same exact experience for 2000+ hours then you need to move on.

And I'm not sure if you're just lying to hopefully get your petty way or not! Can never know afterall.

Ironically even Slow & Steady is faster than regular vanilla leveling because it only reduces XP from mobs kills outside of instances, quests still give full XP and there are more of them now (which is great), also grey quests still give full XP (25 level range). I don't get the tents bonus and +30% XP from War Mode either, as this seems to contradict Turtle WoW original vision, maybe there was too many complaints from retail players, so they implemented those to attract them.

I feel like no matter what, and no matter what initial vision for a server we have, as long as Devs take suggestions we will see retailification in some capacity. QoL changes, XP boosts in some form, just overall ease of playing tedious aspects will be smoothed out.

Exactly. Most people are suggestible and have weak vision. If you compromise your vision you can never create anything of value; hence why Blizzard hires fresh cheap faces just out of College to exploit then fire. . . they have hope and inspiration to extract and discard the peel; like juice from fruit.

[Leathertank]

>I don't see why you are playing on a mostly unchanged Vanilla for your 20+ toon or think that new players want higher XP rates or that they're coming from Retail. It's just an assumption.

Vanilla+ is great, you and I differ on what the + should be.
People do come from retail, I've talked to them, I'm having a very social experience despite tenting and warmoding. You want players forced into a playstlye, when the devs have accounted for many playstyles. This isn't a "no changes" server, it's something new. If you don't like the direction it's headed you can fork it or play somewhere else. I think the majority of the playerbase likes the tents.

[Valadorn]

Tents are not mandatory . . . They are just a possibility

[Thol]

Tents are not mandatory . . . They are just a possibility

[Mac]

I like that you have the option to level at whatever speed you like. Want to level slow? Turtle mode. Want to level quickly? Tents. There's also exhaustion if you absolutely don't want any rested experience.

[Pantheon]

I like that you have the option to level at whatever speed you like. Want to level slow? Turtle mode. Want to level quickly? Tents. There's also exhaustion if you absolutely don't want any rested experience.

The issue being no one is on level playing field here. If I play on Turtle Mode because of how I like to play, and link up with people for quests or dungeon runs, if they are on Warmode, they will surpass me and I wont be able to run with them for very long.

[Talrassan]

I like that you have the option to level at whatever speed you like. Want to level slow? Turtle mode. Want to level quickly? Tents. There's also exhaustion if you absolutely don't want any rested experience.

The issue being no one is on level playing field here. If I play on Turtle Mode because of how I like to play, and link up with people for quests or dungeon runs, if they are on Warmode, they will surpass me and I wont be able to run with them for very long.

I'm not sure I get your point. So what? Why do you feel entitled to link up with them when they want to go faster than you?

[Pantheon]

I like that you have the option to level at whatever speed you like. Want to level slow? Turtle mode. Want to level quickly? Tents. There's also exhaustion if you absolutely don't want any rested experience.

The issue being no one is on level playing field here. If I play on Turtle Mode because of how I like to play, and link up with people for quests or dungeon runs, if they are on Warmode, they will surpass me and I wont be able to run with them for very long.

I'm not sure I get your point. So what? Why do you feel entitled to link up with them when they want to go faster than you?

Kinda the point of an MMO, no?

[Sapiverenus]

>I don't see why you are playing on a mostly unchanged Vanilla for your 20+ toon or think that new players want higher XP rates or that they're coming from Retail. It's just an assumption.

Vanilla+ is great, you and I differ on what the + should be.
People do come from retail, I've talked to them, I'm having a very social experience despite tenting and warmoding. You want players forced into a playstlye, when the devs have accounted for many playstyles. This isn't a "no changes" server, it's something new. If you don't like the direction it's headed you can fork it or play somewhere else. I think the majority of the playerbase likes the tents.

I'm not sure what you call social but being in the proximity of others while they occasionally meme and choose dialogue options is one of the lowest forms of "social".
If the actual game is interesting, engaging, immersive, and everyone is playing the same game: then it is 33x the 'social' experience. Only a dishonest person could disagree.

I don't want "no changes". I want vision. Tinkering with classes so you can break the game is not vision. If the developers are going to be "reckless" then do something exciting and converging on a Vision with full knowledge of why people don't want Retail or TBC or WotLK; and go in a different direction. I am betting you agree.

You can check out my thread on Darker Nights for my idea of what vision is. Ironic, I know.


They will return to Retail soon, no doubt about it. Or they will go to a different private server. The surge in population is almost entirely from McDoubles and they're all ASCENSION PLAYERS. That's about as far from Turtle as you can get. They follow McDoubles; they are not McDevelopers with vision or a great grasp of game design.

I saw this server's dev team/ project lead doing some unique things but seemingly hesitant, and so I wanted to give my own input and see the project lead double down on creating a new experience that is 90 degrees to Retail.
Maybe it's a lack of technical skill and knowhow, I don't know. I hope the devs are interested in my ideas. I have some more ideas of how classes would be affected by or affect light/dark mechanics but I'd rather think through one or two more classes before offering them.

I'd rather there be .5 XP rates (or less), very very rare greens, scripted events and quests that are handcrafted and work on worldbuilding, Different experience gain for each class [different XP sources for instance], dynamic threat, greater aggro range and pull radius, better more realistic AI, game mechanics that require people invest in a zone, a lot.
None of that is "give me AP scaling" or "give me 2x XP". It's bottom of the barrel.

Fiddling with classes while keeping the Holy Trinity of DPS, Healer and Tank, with current combat; it's just the same direction as Retail but worse. If you want Vanilla+ you want a new direction 90 degrees to Retail. What other possibility is there?

[Valadorn]

Tents are not mandatory . . . They are just a possibility

The first 3 dont affect you at all. Let ppl play the way they want.

[Mac]

The issue being no one is on level playing field here. If I play on Turtle Mode because of how I like to play, and link up with people for quests or dungeon runs, if they are on Warmode, they will surpass me and I wont be able to run with them for very long.

Would you also support turtle mode being stripped from the game and warmode made mandatory so that everyone is "on the same playing field?"

[Novola]

@sapiverenus
I deeply enjoyed reading your post. Rarity these days for someone to have such "controversial" thoughts (0.5xp whaaat omg, gief x3 xp and drop rates!) and still be 100% on point with everything you wrote.

I just hope devs listen and stay on the right course

[Sapiverenus]

The issue being no one is on level playing field here. If I play on Turtle Mode because of how I like to play, and link up with people for quests or dungeon runs, if they are on Warmode, they will surpass me and I wont be able to run with them for very long.

Would you also support turtle mode being stripped from the game and warmode made mandatory so that everyone is "on the same playing field?"

You act like it's bad that there's a crafted experience and you have to be on the same playing field as others. Do you not understand what a 'social' experience is? You want people isolated from one another while leveling. Is that the sort of human interaction you want: isolating and disassociative?
There should be a focus on the leveling experience and a massive overhaul to the game in order for a game "that's about the journey, not the goal." There would still be goals but the Developer's focus should be on improving the journey.

I will reiterate from another one of my threads:

I challenge you to think of what a good 80 hour level 1 - 20 custom experience would be.

You don't need to argue with me, just try and figure out what a good level 1 - 20 80 hour custom experience would be.

@sapiverenus
I deeply enjoyed reading your post. Rarity these days for someone to have such "controversial" thoughts (0.5xp whaaat omg, gief x3 xp and drop rates!) and still be 100% on point with everything you wrote.

I just hope devs listen and stay on the right course

Thanks a bunch.

[Gantulga]

"It doesn't affect, you, let people play how they want" is really the lowest effort and most poorly-thought-out argument one can bring to the table.
This is a MMO, not a single player game, of course everything affects everybody in one way or another. There's a reason the EXP gain has always been normalized in the game, ensuring that everybody is on the same playing field.

[Karrados]

"It doesn't affect, you, let people play how they want" is really the lowest effort and most poorly-thought-out argument one can bring to the table.
This is a MMO, not a single player game, of course everything affects everybody in one way or another. There's a reason the EXP gain has always been normalized in the game, ensuring that everybody is on the same playing field.

That doesn't really include Playing time. It doesn't matter if the XP is 1x or 2x for everyone if one guy meets a group but only plays half as much as them.

Within a day there will be a level or two difference, possibly more. The only way to be always within each other would be to only play together which is very unlikely with a random group. So in theory you are on the same playing field but at the end of the day it won't matter because Time plays an important part in this.

One could also argue that constantly parroting the "It's a MMO, not a singleplayer game" is a poor argument too because it's simply not true. You can play a MMO and do things by yourself from time to time like fishing or gathering herbs or farming a specific item.

A Game being a MMO does not automatically mean that you have to do everything with other people, it just means that you are in a world that is inhabited by others where you CAN group up for some things and where you HAVE to group up for others.

MMOs tend to offer content for both of these groups so the "It's not a singleplayer but a MMO" is moot (See Final Fantasy XIV and the Main Story Quest which you can only solo)

[Mac]

The issue being no one is on level playing field here. If I play on Turtle Mode because of how I like to play, and link up with people for quests or dungeon runs, if they are on Warmode, they will surpass me and I wont be able to run with them for very long.

Would you also support turtle mode being stripped from the game and warmode made mandatory so that everyone is "on the same playing field?"

You act like it's bad that there's a crafted experience and you have to be on the same playing field as others. Do you not understand what a 'social' experience is? You want people isolated from one another while leveling. Is that the sort of human interaction you want: isolating and disassociative?
There should be a focus on the leveling experience and a massive overhaul to the game in order for a game "that's about the journey, not the goal." There would still be goals but the Developer's focus should be on improving the journey.

I will reiterate from another one of my threads:

I challenge you to think of what a good 80 hour level 1 - 20 custom experience would be.

You don't need to argue with me, just try and figure out what a good level 1 - 20 80 hour custom experience would be.

@sapiverenus
I deeply enjoyed reading your post. Rarity these days for someone to have such "controversial" thoughts (0.5xp whaaat omg, gief x3 xp and drop rates!) and still be 100% on point with everything you wrote.

I just hope devs listen and stay on the right course

Thanks a bunch.

So you would be okay with them removing turtle mode and forcing everyone to play warmode to level the playing field?

[Sapiverenus]

Would you also support turtle mode being stripped from the game and warmode made mandatory so that everyone is "on the same playing field?"

You act like it's bad that there's a crafted experience and you have to be on the same playing field as others. Do you not understand what a 'social' experience is? You want people isolated from one another while leveling. Is that the sort of human interaction you want: isolating and disassociative?
There should be a focus on the leveling experience and a massive overhaul to the game in order for a game "that's about the journey, not the goal." There would still be goals but the Developer's focus should be on improving the journey.

I will reiterate from another one of my threads:

I challenge you to think of what a good 80 hour level 1 - 20 custom experience would be.

You don't need to argue with me, just try and figure out what a good level 1 - 20 80 hour custom experience would be.

@sapiverenus
I deeply enjoyed reading your post. Rarity these days for someone to have such "controversial" thoughts (0.5xp whaaat omg, gief x3 xp and drop rates!) and still be 100% on point with everything you wrote.

I just hope devs listen and stay on the right course

Thanks a bunch.

So you would be okay with them removing turtle mode and forcing everyone to play warmode to level the playing field?

I'd be okay with there being a Warmode server that you can play on, given that it's Turtle WoW and the premise of the server is a slower fuller experience; hence my animosity and the flimsiness of your own premise.

If you're aware of a private server that has reduced XP rate, less green gear, and an overall leveling focus then let me know so I can check it out though.

[Mac]

I'd be okay with there being a Warmode server that you can play on, given that it's Turtle WoW and the premise of the server is a slower fuller experience; hence my animosity and the flimsiness of your own premise.

If you're aware of a private server that has reduced XP rate, less green gear, and an overall leveling focus then let me know so I can check it out though.

There's no need for any animosity.

[Leathertank]

If it's such a slipper slope, you should just leave, this server will be getting more + and less vanilla as time goes on. Nothing changes won't like it here.