Classes are Boring and to play them is a chore

[Venytas]

Classes are Boring and to play them is a chore
(Atleast the ones I played)

Turtle WoW is super fun, all the work the team put into it paid off, but it could be better.
As the title says, I think the one big thing this server needs to improve are the classes.
Thats why im writing this, I want to enjoy everything the server has to offer but the classes are outdated , unintuitive, contradict themself and are simply not fun.

Before I write a big ol' text I just want you to look into different servers, like V+'s, custom classes and think about it and maybe even comment here or start a thread on your own.

I saw some very interesting approaches, enhancer shaman tank or a real survival melee hunter for example.

Anyway, be nice, and thanks for reading.

[Vladis]

You are kinda right, the server you have mentioned does a great job with tuning vanilla classes. There is definively a space to take some insipiration from it.

[Akalix]

Classes are Boring and to play them is a chore
(Atleast the ones I played)

Turtle WoW is super fun, all the work the team put into it paid off, but it could be better.
As the title says, I think the one big thing this server needs to improve are the classes.
Thats why im writing this, I want to enjoy everything the server has to offer but the classes are outdated , unintuitive, contradict themself and are simply not fun.

Before I write a big ol' text I just want you to look into another servers custom classes and think about it and maybe even comment here or start a thread on your own.

I think that those are pretty fun-sounding classes, especialy the shaman tank and the real melee hunter.
To be fair, I havent played them because the player count killed it for me.


Anyway, be nice, and thanks for reading.

Hi, we would appreciate any specific suggestions on how to implement fun changes.

[Sinrek]

Sounds like OP is just way too used for that particular server he likes so much but lack players, which he did kinda stated but now he alone wants Turtle WoW to tailor his needs and desires.

Rich.

[Venytas]

Sounds like OP is just way too used for that particular server he likes so much but lack players, which he did kinda stated but now he alone wants Turtle WoW to tailor his needs and desires.

Rich.

I cant be used to this particular server cuz I never played there and yes,
I would like turtle wow to tailor my needs and desires but im not that delusional to think that they do what some random dude on the internet writes in a forum,
im just trying to say what I think and encourage player to do the same.
Your comment didnt bring anything to this conversation except for classic forum jabbering and the next time you want to comment pls try to be constructive

[Mac]

I think they did a lot to make the classes more interesting/less boring with the recent talent changes. I’d like to see more scrapped spells and abilities reworked into the game, though.

[Vladis]

Classes are Boring and to play them is a chore
(Atleast the ones I played)

Turtle WoW is super fun, all the work the team put into it paid off, but it could be better.
As the title says, I think the one big thing this server needs to improve are the classes.
Thats why im writing this, I want to enjoy everything the server has to offer but the classes are outdated , unintuitive, contradict themself and are simply not fun.

Before I write a big ol' text I just want you to look into another servers custom classes and think about it and maybe even comment here or start a thread on your own.

I think that those are pretty fun-sounding classes, especialy the shaman tank and the real melee hunter.
To be fair, I havent played them because the player count killed it for me.


Anyway, be nice, and thanks for reading.

Hi, we would appreciate any specific suggestions on how to implement fun changes.

I did have to remove the line mentioning another server though, as we prefer not to mention other private servers on our forums.

Dear Akalix,

I mained enha shaman in classic retail and also played hunter. Here are my two cents given my experience:

Melee hunter improvements:

If I may, here are my suggestions. I was discussing this earlier with other fellow turtles how to make melee hunter more fun. Given we now have flurry for melee attacks and Wolf Aspect it would be awesome to implement:

1. AP scaling for Mongoose Bite and Counterattack.
2. Implement this bleed Lacerate spell.
3. Under Wolf Aspect make MB and Counterattack to proc from offensive actions like player/pet crits or dots from Lacerate.
4. Tweak Survival Trap mastery talent such that dps flame and explo traps are usable in combat.

Basically make Rexxar not a meme spec.

Enha shaman improvements:

1. Tweak Elemental focus or Elemental devastation such that it also gives this 40 % mana reduction on next spells from melee crits. Would be a nice improvement because enha shamans would be able to use a wider variety of spells in combat.

Thank you for reading this.

[Sleg]

Hey,

I'd really like to see shaman as legit tank.
As with latest updates alliance side got quite not bad pally tank. So, it would be nice for the horde to have analogical change.
I'd add some Thunder Clap analog with a lot of agro (could be called "earth shaker wrath" or whatever..)
+ some one target taunt.
+ "ancestral protection" that would increase armor depending on health level (the lower health, more significant is armor boost)
+ "spiritual protection" that would increase elemental magic resistance depending on health level (the lower health, more significant is resistance boost)

I mean, there were some improvements to this direction with the latest patch, but it seems to me that they wont be sufficient to make shaman proper tank.

Anyway, thanks for the Turtle team for changes already done and hope i'll be able to tank any raid with shaman one day)

[Sinrek]

I would like turtle wow to tailor my needs and desires but im not that delusional to think that they do what some random dude on the internet writes in a forum

Good. Because I don't want this on Turtle WoW.

IMO if you find classes boring you need a break from the game.

[Greatgrass]

i agree. i always try and experiment with rare "fun" stuff, like dagger flametongue + shield shaman, melee hunter, moonkin, etc.

Everything I do turns out to be a single button class.
flametongue shaman - stand there and auto attack and flame shock once a while.
melee hunter literally has 1 ability.
they've done the math, and moonkin waste mana by casting anything except starfire.

leveling a destruction warlock was the most engaging fun i've ever had in wow and almost every spell they have will be used in a dungeon, but once you start raiding, it's a waste of mana and hurts your dps to cast anything except shadowbolt. so he was turned into a single button class, too.

I don't think there's anything turtle could do to change this, it'd take tens of thousands of hours of balancing to stop the single button classes problem from happening, and even if they succeeded in turning the meta onto its head, more people would be unhappy and complain than they would celebrate it. I don't think people playing a private server of this nature with a "slow and steady" and hardcore mode would generally want change. Instant 60 servers and things like this is where extreme changes would be better received.

[Adunai]

As I suggested in my thread, I wouldn't want to draw new mechanics from TBC-WotLK, but having more flavourful abilities would be nice. My suggestions:

1) Lava Burst for Elemental Shamans (to deal more Fire damage);
2) Chaos Bolt talent for Destro (a cooldown Fire ability which could be used once in a while);
3) Water Elemental for Mages (a ~20 min cooldown ability which would bring some situational DPS/CC for a short while).

I think, Feral Spirit and Spirit Link have been steps in the right direction, keeping with the spirit of vanilla (thus no overcompicated mechanics), but with flavourful situational abilities. (Also, give Mages Spellsteal, it's such a cool and iconic ability.)

[Venytas]

Classes are Boring and to play them is a chore
(Atleast the ones I played)

Turtle WoW is super fun, all the work the team put into it paid off, but it could be better.
As the title says, I think the one big thing this server needs to improve are the classes.
Thats why im writing this, I want to enjoy everything the server has to offer but the classes are outdated , unintuitive, contradict themself and are simply not fun.

Before I write a big ol' text I just want you to look into another servers custom classes and think about it and maybe even comment here or start a thread on your own.

I think that those are pretty fun-sounding classes, especialy the shaman tank and the real melee hunter.
To be fair, I havent played them because the player count killed it for me.


Anyway, be nice, and thanks for reading.

Hi, we would appreciate any specific suggestions on how to implement fun changes.

I think the first thing should be getting rid of unnecessary not-combat-influencing stuff,
for example higher the duration of buffs like blessings, there is no need for them to be under 30 minutes except for being an annoyance, and lower the CD of specific spells, 30 minutes to 1 hour are just to long.
I believe CDs should be balanced the way that you have everything ready for almost every boss fight if you only use your CDs on bosses or to have everything ready when you encounter open world PvP, I see stuff like that as some sort of skillcheck and this is only then possible, when you have everything your class has to offer ready.

When I wrote that classes contradict themself I meant things like the "Heart of the Crusader" talent, it buffs your Judgement of the Crusader and Crusader Strike but in the Crusader Strike tooltip is stated that It doesnt work with Judgement of the Crusader or Aspect of the Wolf deactivating ranged abilitys but gives melee AP so the hunter can use his melee abilitys that doesnt even have AP scaling, that doesnt make any sense.

Next I tell you what I would love to see added.

1. Let the Hunter use traps in combat, maybe nerf other things llike the wing clip stun talent to compensate for the possible CC buff. In general you might want to look into combat-abilitys that can only be used out of combat

2. Give every class a spammable. Every caster has a spammable, rouge has one paladin has crusader strike ,which I think makes the paly way more enjoyable than before etc. Maybe if you go down the route of making the survival hunter a true melee class make mongoos bite or raptor strike a spammable.

3. Speaking of melee hunter, change the survival tree into a melee spec that can hold his ground against the other melee classes.

4. Give the shaman a true tank spec which also can hold his ground against other tanks.

5. Change the paladins seals to their later known toggleable updates and dont let the judgements dispell the seals on use.


Thats it for me now, I really hope to see those things changed and added into the game, but we will see what the future brings.

Thanks for your time

[Geojak]

As a paladin this is a no go for me

"5. Change the paladins seals to their later known toggleable updates and dont let the judgements dispell the seals on use."

Pls no Wotlk garbage system

Also 30 min greater blessings is good, but 30 min base blessing is exesivr. Too convenient. 10 minites just like druids thorns or omen of clarity or dampen magic or shadow res buff is fair, no reason for paladin alone to suffer 5 min madness

[Gantulga]

Classes are Boring and to play them is a chore

That's like your opinion, man.

[Venytas]

As a paladin this is a no go for me

"5. Change the paladins seals to their later known toggleable updates and dont let the judgements dispell the seals on use."

Pls no Wotlk garbage system

Also 30 min greater blessings is good, but 30 min base blessing is exesivr. Too convenient. 10 minites just like druids thorns or omen of clarity or dampen magic or shadow res buff is fair, no reason for paladin alone to suffer 5 min madness

Blessings are buffs exactly like arcane intellect, why treat it different?
I think all the buffs in the game that are similar to arcane intellect should get their duration buffed to 30 min.

With your text about seals, I completely disagree with you.
I even would say that WotlK classes are ALL superior to their vanilla ones!
If Turtle WoW had Wotlk classes tailored to fit lvl 60 it would straight up be a better server I think.

[Gantulga]

Blessings are buffs exactly like arcane intellect, why treat it different?

Blessing are infinitely more powerful than any of the 30m duration buffs.

I even would say that WotlK classes are ALL superior to their vanilla ones!

I completely disagree. To me some classes were downright broken and made rather unfun.

[Witch101]

" Let the Hunter use traps in combat", I think this would be a great addition. Gives hunters another option when enemies enter their ' Dead Zone."

[Gantulga]

" Let the Hunter use traps in combat", I think this would be a great addition. Gives hunters another option when enemies enter their ' Dead Zone."

Dead zone is the balancing aspect of the class and changes such as removing it or allowing the use of traps in combat would severely wreck PvP balance while at the same time giving hunters an even bigger leveling and grinding advantage when they already and greatly excel in those fields.

[Dannyp19921]

They can take inspiration from TBC and WotLK, in addition to the V+ server's class changes. Especially iconic abilities that are present in WC3, should be in Turtle in some form, as it's supposed to be a continuation of WC3 (like giving mages Water Elemental).

A few extra abilities would be welcome, for example as a Rogue I'd like to have Shiv (or Surprise Attack, which was planned but not implemented) so I have another combo point builder instead of only spamming Hemorrhage/Sinister Strike.

However, a big challenge with this is balance. They'd have to tune raids etc., so they don't become a complete cakewalk, if the classes get stronger. PvP balance should also be kept in mind.

[Venytas]

" Let the Hunter use traps in combat", I think this would be a great addition. Gives hunters another option when enemies enter their ' Dead Zone."

I totally forgot about the deadzone, I absolutely hate it. Its just a miserable feeling when you can literally do nothing.
I think changing it to what it became in TBC+ is a must have and im pretty sure that it will come at some point, especially because disengage is as useless as it is right now.

[Venytas]

" Let the Hunter use traps in combat", I think this would be a great addition. Gives hunters another option when enemies enter their ' Dead Zone."

Dead zone is the balancing aspect of the class and changes such as removing it or allowing the use of traps in combat would severely wreck PvP balance while at the same time giving hunters an even bigger leveling and grinding advantage when they already and greatly excel in those fields.

You know, changing stuff always results in some chaos and imbalance,
thats the nature of change, but this is stuff that can, and most likely will get tweaked.

[Vladis]

And btw I would like to add that perhaps OP, but definitively me, suggest these changes to certain classes in order to enhance the RP and pve experience. This custom content here is awesome but it would be a lot more enjoyable with intetesting class gameplay. Me for example, would like to RP as a Rexxar-like melee beastmaster (survival melee) and also not be a drag for groups in pve group content. Actually to enjoy survival melee combat.

I know I am new here, but the custom quests, areas and dungs are just superb. It would a shame if some players could not enjoy this because retail classic class design is just terrible.

[Venytas]

And btw I would like to add that perhaps OP, but definitively me, suggest these changes to certain classes in order to enhance the RP and pve experience. This custom content here is awesome but it would be a lot more enjoyable with intetesting class gameplay. Me for example, would like to RP as a Rexxar-like melee beastmaster (survival melee) and also not be a drag for groups in pve group content. Actually to enjoy survival melee combat.

I know I am new here, but the custom quests, areas and dungs are just superb. It would a shame if some players could not enjoy this because retail classic class design is just terrible.

Completely agree with you.

[Thorgaaz]

I dont know, I honestly dont think shamans were ever designed as Tanks. And im not sure if they should. They were melee/caster DD and heal and i think thats ok. Melee Shaman is already kind of the wet Dream of a Paladin (at least compared to vanilla Pala) Instant spells, chain spells, extra attacks, bonus Attack, ressurrecting himself... honestly what more do you want. Totems in every flavour.

I mean im always open for the statement to improve classes, but than you mentioned pretty much THE coolest one. Its a little strange.

[Sleg]

Well, shaman as melee dd is not really that good. So, if he is not proper dd anyway, why wouldn't he been trasferred to a tank, where he could shine? And in this case both fractions have same amount of tanks (what adds more balance to the geme). And currently, lets be honest, if you want to tank, you have to go warrior...

[Keegus]

I dont know, I honestly dont think shamans were ever designed as Tanks. And im not sure if they should. They were melee/caster DD and heal and i think thats ok. Melee Shaman is already kind of the wet Dream of a Paladin (at least compared to vanilla Pala) Instant spells, chain spells, extra attacks, bonus Attack, ressurrecting himself... honestly what more do you want. Totems in every flavour.

I mean im always open for the statement to improve classes, but than you mentioned pretty much THE coolest one. Its a little strange.

Yes, shaman's were very much intended to tank in vanilla, that's why Rockbiter comes with a threat mechanic and they were given the ability to equip shields. The reason their tankability was removed in later expansions was because Blizzard gave access to all classes to each faction, and no longer needed to balance Shamans against Paladins.

[Thorgaaz]

But they never really were Tanks in Vanilla too. There is no AoE thread mechanic and Mail is not that good ether. Vanilla was like Warrior > Druid > Pala > Shaman, Pets > Rogue, Priest.

[Garish]

Classes are Boring and to play them is a chore
(Atleast the ones I played)

Turtle WoW is super fun, all the work the team put into it paid off, but it could be better.
As the title says, I think the one big thing this server needs to improve are the classes.
Thats why im writing this, I want to enjoy everything the server has to offer but the classes are outdated , unintuitive, contradict themself and are simply not fun.

Before I write a big ol' text I just want you to look into another servers custom classes and think about it and maybe even comment here or start a thread on your own.

I think that those are pretty fun-sounding classes, especialy the shaman tank and the real melee hunter.
To be fair, I havent played them because the player count killed it for me.


Anyway, be nice, and thanks for reading.

Hi, we would appreciate any specific suggestions on how to implement fun changes.

make all talents for all classes viable(in his terms and niches) in leveling/pvp and raid

i made some takes on melee hunter being a AOE DPS build
my changes:
1- better melee attack power scalling for melee skills EX: Raptor strike as a "fill spell" like heroic strike, moogoose strike as a overpower like skill damage wise and so on...

2- Survival talent that lets hunter in wolf aspect be able to put traps in combat.(it has to be a talent if not the other hunters will just use the wolf aspect to put the trap and get out of it soon after)

3- lacerate(bleed based on melee ap) plus a -healing debuff ONLY usable in wolf aspect after parry/dodge or melee crit(that way the other hunters won't take an unintentional buff)

4- MORE BOSSES with "aoe phases"(mob rush like onyxia or bwl) for our entrapment(talent) frost trap strat usage(creates demand for melee hunter in raids)

5- A NEW SKILL idea: that ends the dot from lacerate and deals all remaining damage plus give Blade fury/sweeping strikers(hitting 2+ mobs at once). call it "BLOODBATH".its a form of aoe in raids and "niche pvp" usage(with 25-40sec cd).

6-Role-Play skill "HUNTER DEADLY THROWN" just a ranged skill with melee attack power scaling just like "Rexxar axe thrown". instant procs primitive instict talent(the new AS one)

that would make "viable" a Attack speed(DualW) aoe melee hunter build in raids and give melee hunter some pvp usage.

[Venytas]

Classes are Boring and to play them is a chore
(Atleast the ones I played)

Turtle WoW is super fun, all the work the team put into it paid off, but it could be better.
As the title says, I think the one big thing this server needs to improve are the classes.
Thats why im writing this, I want to enjoy everything the server has to offer but the classes are outdated , unintuitive, contradict themself and are simply not fun.

Before I write a big ol' text I just want you to look into another servers custom classes and think about it and maybe even comment here or start a thread on your own.

I think that those are pretty fun-sounding classes, especialy the shaman tank and the real melee hunter.
To be fair, I havent played them because the player count killed it for me.


Anyway, be nice, and thanks for reading.

Hi, we would appreciate any specific suggestions on how to implement fun changes.

make all talents for all classes viable(in his terms and niches) in leveling/pvp and raid

i made some takes on melee hunter being a AOE DPS build
my changes:
1- better melee attack power scalling for melee skills EX: Raptor strike as a "fill spell" like heroic strike, moogoose strike as a overpower like skill damage wise and so on...

2- Survival talent that lets hunter in wolf aspect be able to put traps in combat.(it has to be a talent if not the other hunters will just use the wolf aspect to put the trap and get out of it soon after)

3- lacerate(bleed based on melee ap) plus a -healing debuff ONLY usable in wolf aspect after parry/dodge or melee crit(that way the other hunters won't take an unintentional buff)

4- MORE BOSSES with "aoe phases"(mob rush like onyxia or bwl) for our entrapment(talent) frost trap strat usage(creates demand for melee hunter in raids)

5- A NEW SKILL idea: that ends the dot from lacerate and deals all remaining damage plus give Blade fury/sweeping strikers(hitting 2+ mobs at once). call it "BLOODBATH".its a form of aoe in raids and "niche pvp" usage(with 25-40sec cd).

6-Role-Play skill "HUNTER DEADLY THROWN" just a ranged skill with melee attack power scaling just like "Rexxar axe thrown". instant procs primitive instict talent(the new AS one)

that would make "viable" a Attack speed(DualW) aoe melee hunter build in raids and give melee hunter some pvp usage.

I like this idea.
If they would stick to the idea of melee hunter being a dual wield spec, pls dont forget to include the "deals x% more damage with offhand-weapon" talent + make some abilities hit with both weapons - thats always fun imo

[Venytas]

But they never really were Tanks in Vanilla too. There is no AoE thread mechanic and Mail is not that good ether. Vanilla was like Warrior > Druid > Pala > Shaman, Pets > Rogue, Priest.

I dont see where "its not vanilla" is a good argument on twow anymore, for example the pala isnt vanilla anymore and I dont see player complain about this, or the "new" spells for warlock.

Players obviously want things like tank shaman or melee hunter, so why dont just give it to them?
In the case of the melee hunter, the survival tree is most likely the least played spec and even now ppl already play it to fullfill their class fantasy of a melee hunter.
I think there would be little loss and a lot of gain if changes like these would happen.

[Sleg]

But they never really were Tanks in Vanilla too. There is no AoE thread mechanic and Mail is not that good ether. Vanilla was like Warrior > Druid > Pala > Shaman, Pets > Rogue, Priest.

I dont see where "its not vanilla" is a good argument on twow anymore, for example the pala isnt vanilla anymore and I dont see player complain about this, or the "new" spells for warlock.

Players obviously want things like tank shaman or melee hunter, so why dont just give it to them?
In the case of the melee hunter, the survival tree is most likely the least played spec and even now ppl already play it to fullfill their class fantasy of a melee hunter.
I think there would be little loss and a lot of gain if changes like these would happen.

Couldn't agree more. What's wrong in not waiting for the tank for infinite period of time, and what's wrong in having classes that are still same in their nature, but more variable?

[Garish]

they need to create more demand for the "out-specs"(like melee hunter and tank shaman)
with new dungeons and raids
and they need to put a "job" in these specs EX:(melee hunter being a aoe dps for the mob rush phases in some raids)

[Heimdallr]

I'd still say take an exampl for V+ or merge them here. It solves the Character/race problems imho

[Sapiverenus]

i agree. i always try and experiment with rare "fun" stuff, like dagger flametongue + shield shaman, melee hunter, moonkin, etc.

Everything I do turns out to be a single button class.
flametongue shaman - stand there and auto attack and flame shock once a while.
melee hunter literally has 1 ability.

If you play hunter, don't exclusively melee. There are enough melee fighters as-is. Hunter uses range primarily; survival hunter is hybrid.

I haven't played much of this game but I know what you're doing. You're trying to force a playstyle that contradicts the class identity. Some people want to hunt so they go Hunter. If you want to go Warrior... then go Warrior. Rogue has throwing weapons as well; you can roll Rogue.

Too many people try and trivialize the classes.


If anything needs to change its to add more class questing for flavor and some more long-form content for hunters lol.

[Venytas]

i agree. i always try and experiment with rare "fun" stuff, like dagger flametongue + shield shaman, melee hunter, moonkin, etc.

Everything I do turns out to be a single button class.
flametongue shaman - stand there and auto attack and flame shock once a while.
melee hunter literally has 1 ability.

If you play hunter, don't exclusively melee. There are enough melee fighters as-is. Hunter uses range primarily; survival hunter is hybrid.

I haven't played much of this game but I know what you're doing. You're trying to force a playstyle that contradicts the class identity. Some people want to hunt so they go Hunter. If you want to go Warrior... then go Warrior. Rogue has throwing weapons as well; you can roll Rogue.

Too many people try and trivialize the classes.


If anything needs to change its to add more class questing for flavor and some more long-form content for hunters lol.

We can clearly see that you havent played much, the survival hunter is bad right now.
You say it is hybrid and that isnt true, it is ranged but worse than marksman.
Your melee attacks dont scale and the deadzone makes it impossible to switch between melee and ranged.

And btw. if you want to play a only ranged hunter, go on, we dont try to stop you, in fact we only want to expand on the class fantasy ppl have


And btw. dont assume that we try to force something onto anything or anyone, THIS is a suggestion!