Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

[Witch101]

Could you please shorten the cooldown for Hurricane. This would open up druid'a AoE potential.

[Volkyte]

forgive me for my ignorance, so basically warrior is getting an extra slam usable while moving? :O

[Severla]

So melee hunter wont be really buffed? Not scaling melee skills no raptor reduced cd or traps in combat?

Inthink wolf aspect is much worse than monkey (mongoose needs to.dodge) and you cant shoot. For 155 ap dont worth it

Had been eagerly awaiting to see how Lacerate would scale.

And it didnt make the cut, oof. RIP.

[Allwynd01]

lacerate was taken out of the question?

Looks like it was removed altogether from the list of changes.

my melee orc hunter dream is dead, and im in mourning...

Yes, I've been waiting for this update to release since the first days of January, I was really excited. Then it was delayed to "before the end of January", now we can safely say it's almost the end of February and the update is nowhere in sight, what's more the most core change for Hunters in this update has been removed.

I'm very disappointed, both that it was removed and that they felt they should not release the update even if it had bugs and imbalances and let people test it and provide feedback. Also, who decides what goes in or out? Is there a dedicated testing team that I'm not aware of or is there is some heated discussion where users vote and I somehow don't know it exists?

I simply don't see how a melee Hunter can be anything close to viable even for leveling up and fighting regular mobs for questing without Lacerate, which was a very needed melee active ability to expand the Hunter's melee arsenal. I decided since January to play my Hunter in melee only, I even sold my bow and had just relied on a melee weapon and frankly the amount of abilities of a 16 level Hunter who relies on melee only is a complete joke. I also learned that Mongoose Bite is quite useless too, because if one mob triggers the ability, you can't use it on another mob if you and your pet are fighting multiple mobs and you decide for your pet to fight one mob and you another just to speed things up.

[Linxoid]

Yes, I've been waiting for this update to release since the first days of January, I was really excited. Then it was delayed to "before the end of January", now we can safely say it's almost the end of February and the update is nowhere in sight, what's more the most core change for Hunters in this update has been removed.

I'm very disappointed, both that it was removed and that they felt they should not release the update even if it had bugs and imbalances and let people test it and provide feedback. Also, who decides what goes in or out? Is there a dedicated testing team that I'm not aware of or is there is some heated discussion where users vote and I somehow don't know it exists?

+ 1

[Raukodor]

The biggest peoblems of melee hunters

His melee skills dont scale (a naxx geared hunter will do same damage with mongoose/lacerate. Raptor only depends of weapon damage). And winglip... Well you know

Very very few melee arsenal. You usually only use raptor (only real.skill every 6 sec). Mongoose /counter does crap damage and you need to dodge/parry a attack

If you arent tanking you only use 1 of.your 3 skills...

Traps in melee? Yes. But again dont scale and need feing death to cast in combat so have a much longer cd in combat


I play melee hunter for fun. Viable? Of course not.

[Mekunekud]

The only way I can think of that Hunters would get a decent "melee" buff, tho nowhere near competitive, would be to make Aspect of the Wolf make Mongoose Bite a useable skill in any situation and traps castable in combat at the cost of any ranged skill upto 10 seconds after changing aspect to balance out the fact it's a melee aspect and to prevent hunters just aspect changing straight to Hawk and preventing any kind of kite from casters. Possibly making Serpent Sting removed from the deadzone as well.

[Tasman]

Continuing my thoughts on paladin talents.
3)Ret talent, «‎Vindication» row 3. Talent gives debuff that decreases strenght and agility for 15%, whitch makes it useless against casters. I suggest 3 variants of how it can be improved:
1)Debuff will affect not only strenght and agility, but also intelect and spirit. Resulting in 15% decrease of strenght, agility, intelect and spirit.
2)Debuff decreases all targets stats by 10% whitch means basic (strenght, intelect, agility etc.) and secondary (dodge, parry, spell power, crit etc.).
3)Debuff decreases all damage done by target (physical and magical) by 10% and also decreases efficiency of its healing spells by 20%.

[Allwynd01]

The only way I can think of that Hunters would get a decent "melee" buff, tho nowhere near competitive, would be to make Aspect of the Wolf make Mongoose Bite a useable skill in any situation and traps castable in combat at the cost of any ranged skill upto 10 seconds after changing aspect to balance out the fact it's a melee aspect and to prevent hunters just aspect changing straight to Hawk and preventing any kind of kite from casters. Possibly making Serpent Sting removed from the deadzone as well.

I agree that, but technically, it sounds hard to implement.

The way I understand it, Mongoose Bite becomes available when you dodge, there are two ways to make the skill always available:

- make it so you dodge 80-90% time, but this will make you immortal, so it's not an option
- make the skill not require dodge, but instead works on a cooldown.

[Garish]

as a melee hunter u can do a dual tank leveling with a bear or boar pet, using all your dots on a mob and make your pet aggro, than pull another mob and put your dots (lacerate with bloodlust and wolf aspect greatly improve this build tho) than melee the mobs to death.

Melee hunter only needs 2 things
1. buff in melee dmg skills with wolf aspect on (maybe hitting with both weapons with 100% dmg)
2. moongose bite working on parrys (deflection talent supports that)
Plus tip:
Bleeding crescent axe is your core item at lvl 30
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=6738/bleeding-crescent

[Garish]

as a melee hunter u can do a dual tank leveling with a bear or boar pet, using all your dots on a mob and make your pet aggro, than pull another mob and put your dots (lacerate with bloodlust and wolf aspect greatly improve this build tho) than melee the mobs to death.

Melee hunter only needs 2 things
1. buff in melee dmg skills(with wolf aspect on,maybe hitting with both weapons with 100% dmg)
2. moongose bite working on parrys (deflection talent supports that)
Plus tip:
Bleeding crescent axe is your core item at lvl 30
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=6738/bleeding-crescent

[Ravielsk]

I am very thankful for the teams willingness to to make some serious changes to the classes. Adding new content to the game while keeping the old borked classes would just feel like wasted effort. Especially the paladin changes are very much welcome.

But if I am getting this right these changes are not yet implemented on the live server as that runs on the 1.16.0 client and not 1.16.1. Did I understand that right?

[Amarath]

With these changes im coming to TWow. This was what was holding me back. I played classic, twice on retail and a few times on pservers. A new starting zone is not enough for me to play it again. Now classic as a paladin, shaman, and others sure ill sign up for that.

[Amarath]

I am very thankful for the teams willingness to to make some serious changes to the classes. Adding new content to the game while keeping the old borked classes would just feel like wasted effort. Especially the paladin changes are very much welcome.

But if I am getting this right these changes are not yet implemented on the live server as that runs on the 1.16.0 client and not 1.16.1. Did I understand that right?

Yeah its not live and the current conflict i guess is causing more delay. They did send an update in the discord saying so, but they roll out patches slowly after all it is turtle wow :P ... i wouldn't count of them shortly, but they could come.

[Amarath]

...
The big question is however, the fact that you are hinting at the concept of increasing the debuff limit with rogue but not giving a clear answer? If you are increasing the debuff cap then alot of my concerns are mitigated. However, if you are not doing so then that still has the issue of Crusader Strike not being worth stacking. The idea of using Crusader Strike to buff your damage + opening up your judgment slot for Light/Wisdom is definitely an idea I enjoy, but i'm concerned about the debuff slot economy in regards to this concept.
...

Overall, I love the concept overall and I'm excited to try it once it's properly implemented, but my main concern is how crusader strike is going to be possibly catered too justify it's debuff slot and how one could use that to help ret paladin have a niche in a raid setting.

They almost have to do this or spriest cannot use VE to mana battery. I mean with buff cap increased Shadow priests could easily be useful (TBC players love them so will you). But without VE they are just bad dps. (I guess the changes help the 1 in raid used for Shadow Weaving...)

[Jombo]

Question about Arcane Brilliance aura. In WC3 it was an actual aura. Since you still use that name, why not make it an actual aura instead of a 30 min buff? Also it would be less annoying to use and stand out as a new feature in a positive way.

[Keridan66]

Any information, when this changes to classes and talents are going to be done on the server? At least I'd love to know if it will be this month or not.

[Allwynd01]

Any information, when this changes to classes and talents are going to be done on the server? At least I'd love to know if it will be this month or not.

Probably never.

[Nartt]

Any information, when this changes to classes and talents are going to be done on the server? At least I'd love to know if it will be this month or not.

+1

[Sinrek]

We're currently testing some spells and trying to come up with sensible values, so, as you might've imagine it takes time.

Stay tuned for the announcement. I'm sure nobody wants to have a patch with tons of new bugs, right?

[Witch101]

Please shorten Hurricane's cooldown. Thanks.

[Olgah]

That's a LOT of mana for a single target "somewhat" CC on the Troll shaman racial skill.

While the other two gets a full 20 seconds duration on their own, the hex *Which would be really only useful on caster-type mobs or players* assuming you can't dispel it. You'll rather prefer a mage to cast Polymorph and that'll be better, in fact any other CC is just overall better, there's no need for the 4 seconds hex.

The troll one really needs a change, it's very underwhelming, and 21% base mana cost it's a LOT for it.

I'll rather them have a Serpent Ward instead, that last the full 20 seconds duration and deals some chaotic single target spicy damage than the Hex if we're talking on voodoo-ish-shadow hunter type of racial for troll shamans.

IMO the hex as it is there, is rather weak and unneeded, in comparison to the other two who seems to have a better usability.

[Zenjarla]

Warrior change

While i agree that warriors are silly in vanilla there was 1 change in TBC that i think would be a great addition in classic, and that is the support role of arms warrior by giving them the blood frenzy talent:
"Your Rend and Deep Wounds abilities also increase all physical damage caused to that target by 4%."

Whit this talent it was desirable to not only have fury warriors but an arms that actually could bring something more then just dmg to the raid. That and also the nature of TBC (And even more in vanilla) where some bosses needed more then 1 tank, the arms (because of the nature of his talent tree) had no issue filling the spot as a back up tank. It also created a spot for a 2h dmg dealer that is basically none existed and almost all 2h wpns are consider pvp wpns in vanilla.

A big issue is that you dont want to give this to warriors for free in their pvp spec, but by the nautre of having it in the end of the talent tree ppl would need to make the choice of ether having 5 points in enrage or 4% dmg... which no pvper would ever consider taking since thats 4% vs 10%.

But i also realise that buffing physical dmg for vanilla might not the best direction since their overall dmg scale to good, and the fact that Arms in TBC have a rotation with slam, and slam in vanilla is not the same, specially since you cant reach improved slam (unless you lower it) while having mortal strike and this talent.

I know this might be to much but as a fan of support warrior build in tbc i hope maybe it could inspire a future look over. Vanilla have the best world, but tbc brings soo many more fun and unique builds and i think many forget this role of an arms support.

[Tasman]

About paladin changes.
I have some ideas about alternative version of taunt for paladins. Also it can be fine addition to seal taunt that devs introduced in new talent trees. This will be spell that can be trained at 16 lvl if it will be main taunt. Or on 30 lvl as secondary mass taunt but with much longer cooldown. (Current version portrayed as main taunt).
Orb of Light
3% of base mana
30 yard range.
15 sec cooldown
Instant
Hurls an orb that explodes in area targeted by paladin, taunting all enemies that are present in radius of 5 yards.

[Allwynd01]

Melee Hunters should be able to equip shields.

[Captem]

To the DEVS, regarding the Druid changes: Make the Tree of Life shapeshift visual form OPTIONAL, either with some kind of glyph or similar. Like others have mentioned earlier in the thread, the tree of life Treant is not very visually appealing and is not in line with the Druid Lore in the warcraft universe. Druids could summon treants and could shapeshift into animals and beasts, but they were mainly casters in humanoid form. Please consider making it optional, or even change the ability from shapeshifting to something else, or even use the Cata version. I'm sure a lot of players would greatly appreciate this.

Thank you.

Here's a good representation of a healing Druid:

[Tasman]

Another idea about paladin changes.
Holy talent tree, row 3.
Name: Holy Land.
Requires 10 points in Holy Talents and 1 point to obtain it (It should be placed where consecration is located at this moment).
Description:
Grants your consecration spell ability to heal you, members of your party and raid if they stand on the consecrated land. Healing occurs every time when damage supposed to be done to the enemies who enter the area.
Note:
To make things clear, damage and healing scales separately from two specific spell power stats. In stock without any spell power, damage and healing are equal to each other. But if you have more damage spell power, damage from consecration will be higher than healing. Same it works if you have more healing spell power.

[Kasztan]

Sooooo, any news on when the class changes patch will be released?

[Marty1980]

I really enjoy all those change and it will make it quite unique. But to just use TBC talent tree, make the cap at 60, and remove outland, would certainly bring more new player.

I am a new player here and will stay no matter what, but vanilla + had new spec, new spell, and it s dropped quite fast.

So it seem only a minority of people love those custom change.

I really enjoy what i am seeing so far, but the server could use and extra few hundreds of active players.

[Chulain]

Can we make Curse of Shadow/Elements also lower Nature resistance? Idc for the 10% added damage I just would love to see the resistance lowered since it's difficult to get a whopping 75 resistance reduction

[Jesterjacks]

I feel cheated that I got into Turtle WoW believing these changes to be already here based on your website. After the initial disappointment (which I am certain is not unique to me), I still kept playing to see the custom content.

That being said, I'm eager for the changes now, and waiting for them with bated breath. I'd like to see at least an ETA or something. So far, in any discussion I saw about these in game or outside the game, nobody knows anything and there's a high level of frustration. It's nice to see people put faith into the devs, and I'm certain I'll grow to do the same. You guys seem dedicated to the work here, so it's fantastic to see that. But getting some news is better than no news.

Regarding the feedback, I love the idea of making specs viable, particularly shadow priest, arcane-oriented arcane mage (albeit rip mages still only having to spam one ability), non-combat rogue, pally tank, etc.

One of my concerns is, however, feral druid. My question to you all, is there a way we can get rid of powershifting requirement (i.e. the helmet for energy and energy management by shifting out and in cat form) and the hammer from gnomeregan? In my personal opinion and experience, some people who wanted to try feral were off-put by this as it's pretty much a mandatory for feral dps, and I admit, myself included would like to see this not be a thing.

I know one of the issues and requirements for the powershift is energy management, so if you could change the energy gain (by increasing it) and perhaps change the energy gain talent to have a cooldown, you wouldn't be forced into powershift constantly. The mace, I doubt there's any workaround that, other than either removing it or adding attack power in shapeshift to items.

[Redmagejoe]

I feel cheated that I got into Turtle WoW believing these changes to be already here based on your website. After the initial disappointment (which I am certain is not unique to me), I still kept playing to see the custom content.

That being said, I'm eager for the changes now, and waiting for them with bated breath. I'd like to see at least an ETA or something. So far, in any discussion I saw about these in game or outside the game, nobody knows anything and there's a high level of frustration. It's nice to see people put faith into the devs, and I'm certain I'll grow to do the same. You guys seem dedicated to the work here, so it's fantastic to see that. But getting some news is better than no news.

Not to suggest that I am not thoroughly enjoying what the server already has to offer in terms of custom content and the most chill community I've met on a WoW server since 2004 (not to say that the par for the course trolling isn't still present), thus being the best WoW experience I have had since 2004... But I have to agree with this poster. I didn't come here for RP or PvE (though I am finding I enjoy the PvE setting after 18 years of playing on PvP servers), I came here for the promising class rebalance. I would like to think I will continue playing for a while, but if there isn't some sort of transparency or communication about these changes, the frustration is going to continue to nibble away at the patience of those of us who came here originally for the class changes.

In short, please at least give a rough estimate to the players, that they might stave off the desire to leave, or on a more positive note, begin advertising to their friends who may be intrigued by the changes. I've already had to give the disclaimer to a few potentially interested parties that I have no idea when, if ever, this patch is going to drop.

[Dickeradieschen]

True that. I havent played for a couple of months now, because I'm waiting for the class changes.

[Projecx]

I have also stopped playing because I was waiting for class changes.

[Nartt]

I have also stopped playing because I was waiting for class changes.

+1