Fashion Coins, a Price Too High

[Mindboggler]

I really don't consider these well-implemented. This is something I became aware of around... lvl 15. I stop by the NPC, see I can get a coin for some linen and wool. I decide "Ah, I'll do that later." I learn from world chat they're used for transmogging. "Well that's cool." I say to myself. "But I don't really see a need to transmog gear I'm going to quickly replace." And decide I'll do it when I'm higher level.

Around level 30 I return. "Oh it wants silk and wool now. I guess it's randomized." Come the thoughts of an ignorant fool, and I decide to put it off for now, being as I didn't have the materials.

Level 45 I return again. I am well supplied in many types of fabric. Though now it is asking for even more extreme requirements. It is now at this point I've now realized that this scales on your level. I had systematically been screwing myself every, single, time I didn't decide to take advantage of the cheaper requirements at low level.

...

So we get to the crux of this. I don't think it's good design. I think it's great you managed to get transmogs in this. You deserve commendation for that. However, the approach here isn't very fair.

I could have easily just not seen the NPC and not been aware of this feature and been completely screwed at a high level. This feature isn't readily presented to the player. It's just a quest sitting in town.

The cost should not exponentially increase with your level otherwise it encourages you to either stockpile them at a low level or just mail the mats using an alt. Most people aren't working towards their transmog gear at lvl 5.

...

The solution? I'll present a few ideas as an alternative to what we currently have.

1. Retail - You pay gold, change the appearance of your clothing, scales on the value of the item. Simple, effective, boring.

2. Progress Reward - Every time you gain 5 levels, you get a few fashion coins. Good job on the leveling, kid. And you might get a few as a reward for clearing a dungeon/raid. Alternatively, you could get awarded a fashion coin for every X amount of new appearances you discover.

3. Repurposing Existing NPCs - Remember the fabric donation NPCs? You could incorporate it into that. When donating, as a quest reward you can choose either rep or fashion tokens.

...

At the end of the day, these are just my ideas, and a way of me trying to constructively use my salt over the fact I wasn't aware of how the system worked until I was lvl 45.

[Sinrek]

Instead of assessing your own gathering possibilities and gauging raw materials for Fashion Coins beforehand, you decided to postpone and delay instead of calculating and acquiring needed items which aren't much of a challenge to get, also, those were long before the rework well known to almost all RP oriented public, so asking for info was all you had to do.

Now, however, you come up and ask for changes that were made exactly for a much easier way to gather and complete those quests even repeatedly at certain range levels as it was intended…

Sounds like you just had no info, which is a player mistake, not a design.

[Merikkinon]

Solutions just seem like retail-ish approaches.

I get feeling disillusioned. I have not noticed some things and then found them later. It's part of the experience. Sure, disappointing. A focus on leveling and moving up can promote that.

It's true one has to dig for info, either on the forum or Discord (not great, but try keyword search). It's just part of the state of the server.

IDK... I think it's just one of those things to eat as a screwup. I think the progressive demands are very fair and appropriate.

[Valadorn]

Solutions just seem like retail-ish approaches.

I get feeling disillusioned. I have not noticed some things and then found them later. It's part of the experience. Sure, disappointing. A focus on leveling and moving up can promote that.

It's true one has to dig for info, either on the forum or Discord (not great, but try keyword search). It's just part of the state of the server.

IDK... I think it's just one of those things to eat as a screwup. I think the progressive demands are very fair and appropriate.

People dont have to dig deep, they can simply ask in /world chat, it takes 3 seconds to get an answer to any question.

[Mindboggler]

Sorry for the late reply. But allow me to explain myself just a bit more coherently. One of my main gripes with this is how it's presented.

You walk into your main city. See a quest to get fashion tokens. Nearby is an NPC that transmogs. It's a little different, but familiar. But as a new player to this server, but one with experience in retail, is the first thought in your mind transmogging?

I'd assume no. For me it's something I do at level cap because I'm trading worn gear a lot less. Anyone who is going into this game is likely going to assume it's similar to how it works in retail.

It FEELS at the surface self explanatory. You walk by, NPC wants cloth for tokens. "Cool, I'll do that later when I've got appearances." Generally, that doesn't provoke the player to start asking a bunch of questions because it appears as though it answers itself.

Why would I go and ask world chat/discord/forums? Says right there, cloth for tokens.

But once you come back later, the price has raised. See what I mean? It takes the appearance of a familiar system, but it's scaling cost is a sort of knife in the back to people who used it in retail.

...

I could poke and explain some of my other points again, but I'll avoid more text walls for now. Sorry if I appear overly negative or anything.

[Valadorn]

No worries, its even worse for those that had 60s b4 transmog :p , I had no choice but get the most expensive coins, but I see your point :) . On my next char, I got the tokens around lvl 10 and have them in my bank till I reach 60 and get some nice gear

[Kanto123]

For something that is aesthetic only, I don't think it should be a tiresome process. I can understand needing to do a dungeon or raid for a piece of gear that affects gameplay, or needing to gather a large amount of gold for an epic mount, but transmogging isn't like that. The part that requires work should just be getting the gear itself that you want the appearance for. I'd rather just get coins from the shop or something like that. I'd even be fine with just being able to transmog anything you've already worn, you already acquired the gear through playing the game and it's tracked

[Sinrek]

Perhaps we should change some quest text description then… We'll see to it.

[Mindboggler]

Just as a quick addendum idea that might solve a lot of issues. What if the first time you accept the quest, it's the lowest level version? Then it ranks up each time you do it, instead of by level, up until it reaches the requirements as though you were 60, at which point it becomes a repeatable quest.

That way it doesn't make you feel like you've screwed yourself by putting it on the backburner.

But that'll be it for me.

[Derikom]

Perhaps we should change some quest text description then… We'll see to it.

I think a change of quest text is all that's needed. Either an addendum in the quest objective to mention the quest levels with you or a more vague but rp-fun comment from the fashionesta about "And if I see you come back here with stronger equipment and a more experienced look in your eye, don't think I'll be so lenient on my requirements!"

[Deekin]

Bare it in mind - if you keep the quest in your log, you can hand it in at any time, you just can't get the lower level quests once you reach the level threshold.
So you do effectively get one hand-in at any level provided the quest is not abandoned. :)

[Andima]

Im now in the 40s bracket, and i feel that items required for the quest are unreasonable. =(

[Geojak]

i was rly sad when i found out that i could not do the low level quests anymore becuase i had wrongly postponed them for later.

I am a completenist and i like to finish everything at my own pace. But this design rushes me and forces me to do that quest right now or permanently miss out.

This is what i really dont like. The design of getting higher lvl and being punished for it must be avoided!

I would suggest the following:
1. make it like the cloth donations ones, you need to finish the first quest to unlokck the second turn in and so on
2. Increase the amount of fashion coins stepwise for the higher lvl ones
3. except for the last lvl 60 quest, other quest are one time only, just like lower fabric donations

So the first one gives 1 coin, second one gives 2 coins but has higher mat requirements, and so on. This would be fair in my opinion.

Lastly, mabe consider a turtle tokken store items: 10 token for 1 fashion coin.

Becuase transmog is one accetable in game monetization. Much lower impact than for example the ah, bank and post summons or 32 slot bags. And people that dont want to pay can still get it ingame too.

[Mindboggler]

Just a small point here. I'm not a fan of a feature that is independent of levels, transmogging, being tied to the level process. The reason why other mechanics get more expensive is because you yourself are getting stronger. Stronger spell, bigger cost. But your style is independent of that.

I just find it an odd, disagreeable choice.

[Jambiya]

Just a small point here. I'm not a fan of a feature that is independent of levels, transmogging, being tied to the level process. The reason why other mechanics get more expensive is because you yourself are getting stronger. Stronger spell, bigger cost. But your style is independent of that.

I just find it an odd, disagreeable choice.

Usually higher level gear looks cooler or is more varied than low level gear. Granted there’s always subjective tastes, but unless you want to look like your lv 20 at 60, the increased cost does have merit.

Letting people know about xmog and it’s fashion coin price increase when they are low level is what’s needed most imo

[Mindboggler]

Which would make sense, if you couldn't just farm coins at low level. Those coins acquired at low level let you apply those pretty looking high level gear pieces. I don't know. There's some kind of dissonance about it.

[Jambiya]

Which would make sense, if you couldn't just farm coins at low level. Those coins acquired at low level let you apply those pretty looking high level gear pieces. I don't know. There's some kind of dissonance about it.

You have to be able to actually equip the gear in order to save its skin/model.

[Mindboggler]

You do. But you can acquire the coins at an extremely low level.

[Jambiya]

Oh ok sorry I was miss reading your point of view.

I personally don’t mind an easy low lv cost. I’ve been hoarding as I go and now have enough to look like a somewhat proper sand troll. Perhaps they could have the quest reward more coins if the req materials are harder to get. Granted it’s still better than the once per week quest they had.

[Allwynd01]

I also thought it was always about the Linen-grade of materials. I'm still level 16 so I just might grind out more coins before I level up. xD

[Geojak]

Do we really want to keep a design that exoursges people to Not lvl up and farm cheap up coins for later insanely hard to get transmoging.

Punishing the player off leveling is absurd

[Sinrek]

There's no punishment. Quest is optional just as the amount of those coins you need.

[Mikecrow]

Im now in the 40s bracket, and i feel that items required for the quest are unreasonable. =(

Because they are. As OP has said numerous times, changing the materials required to be HARDER as you level makes no sense if you want to promote a good transmog system. The cost should be consistently or cost gold or something instead of niche, psuedo rare items.

The problem is some people simp for it because they dealt with it and feel the need to force you too despite the horrid design choice because it wouldnt be fair to them.
It's exceedingly clear a system that uhhhh.....doesnt force you but HIGHLY ENCOURAGES you to farm coins at low levels when you have the fewest resources and the least desire for transmog in the first place (something that most consider to be an endgame system) to avoid prices being so absurd that you spend 10 times the amount of time grinding them out later isnt a good system.

[Valadorn]

Guys, you can also use the action house, if farming proves too hard.

[Duvel]

I got caught too until I understood.
The mechanic is fine, and the only thing to change is the quest's title or text, to clearly indicate that it should be completed BEFORE LVL X

[Rudyraccoon]

Guys, you can also use the action house, if farming proves too hard.

But if you're on Hardcore, then tough luck, you have to grind for it.

[Mindboggler]

I do agree with the idea that there will continue to be opposition, simply because people want others to suffer as they did. And the developers won't change it so as not to upset the people who have already had to pay these terrible prices, even if the system itself isn't particularly great.

[Valadorn]

Guys, you can also use the action house, if farming proves too hard.

But if you're on Hardcore, then tough luck, you have to grind for it.

I dont think that on hardcore your biggest concern should be transmog :p

[Fornow]

Quests having a maximum level requirement is very unusual in WoW so it's easy to to see why people get tripped up by this. It happened to me as well. Especially if it's your first character your priorities might lie elsewhere. It's logical to assume that at higher level it will be easier to buy/farm the materials and thus postpones the quests. If anything a visual indicator like a red exclamation mark could indicate that this type of quest is different and expires. Even better though if it works like the cloth turn ins where you have to complete each lesser hand-in first before you eventually get to the repeatable endgame quest.

[Sinrek]

Quest texts shall be reworked.
Thank you for your contributions.

[Geojak]

Hello, I would like to add to this disuccsion another thing to look at.

Blizzard once said something like: Players will optimizer any fun out of the game if given incentive to and game design should protect players from themselves.

I think the current design with a max level for the quest is an example of such:

Making fashion coins a lot easier to get a lower level instead of leveling is not fun.
But their will be people that feel for some reason forced to farm them out, because it is "optimal" to do.

I am sure you have had a situation in gaming before when you knew you need to do X before playing on the main story, but doing X felt like lots of boring work, but since it is optimal you should... And then you just never played again. (just an example, I will play on anyway on TWoW.)

[Jubling]

I am sure you have had a situation in gaming before when you knew you need to do X before playing on the main story, but doing X felt like lots of boring work, but since it is optimal you should... And then you just never played again. (just an example, I will play on anyway on TWoW.)

Seriously spot on, I've got a spread of characters in the early levels because I'm not sure if I want to 'waste' my time killing nightsabers for leather collars or just say 'never mind I won't use transmog I guess', and the winning argument is 'well I won't log in today' lol.

[Minno]

I didn't know these scale with level. I put it off too because I didn't think much of them.

Now I don't expect devs to give me rewards for being lazy. But game mechanics that are scaled should at least tell you in some way so you don't have to use /world to get an answer. I don't remember anything from the quest text that suggested level scaling. I think the quest even shows up as lvl60 in questlog when you use addons that show the level the quest should ideally be done at (but i could be wrong but i remember it being red text).

Either way I love the way it requires items that are generally never used. Just needs a little extra RP to help newbies know it scales.

[Minno]

Another thought. Faction Cloth XP/Rep NPCs have similar quest design to this vendor where they give you cotton first and then as they scale up give you access to the higher tiers. You finally get to runecloth. But all quests are available but are one time use.

A similar mechanic could be there. Have multi tier step quests to show "hey you maybe want to do these now" that can be completed at any level, but keep the level scaling for daily turn ins with custom text.