[Racial] Allow Shadowmeld to be used in combat

[Zesilo]

A small quality of life change, as well as a small buff for both pve/pvp appliances. A mini feign death, debatably useless in most situations except bad pulls or avoiding a spell cast.

I think the change mostly would affect PvP, but would not take away from Gnomes/Dwarves being the superior races still.

[Boomboompow]

Very much agreed. It is in place in wow currently as this issue was addressed with live. It’s an essential part of avoiding wasting time and gives shadowmeld a skill cap.

Small quality of life change with an impact that has a good and fair balance.

[Heroclastus]

I agree,

I was on this server some time ago and proposed similar changes. As alternative I'd suggest making shadowmeld useable in combat only for rogues,as it really doesn't serve a purpose for that class and keep the vanilla form for all others.
In light of the class changes they should also look at racials.

[Boomboompow]

As alternative I'd suggest making shadowmeld useable in combat only for rogues

Definitely not only for rogues, but I'm glad you see value in the quality of life change to Shadowmeld.

[Valadorn]

Id also support this change

[Raukodor]

And usable while moving? Like stealth

[Rafale]

I support this. This change was done later so it's conceivable. It would be a little buff to those shit picks : NE priest / NE rogue / NE warrior (if it integrates a threat drop)

[Warmane]

absolutely! Every class should be able to vanish. Ihave no idea why blizzard never though about it.
Also IMO every class should be able to selfheal

[Merikkinon]

Sounds like GW2 (a good game in and of itself, imo - but a different game and model).

idk... player power is x3 that of mobs in the world. the rare instance when a mob might actually win over a character? and we gotta vanish or drop threat. wow.

i could see some of this in pvp or in raiding. But most of it isn't justifiable 'in the world'. If I'm about to die to a mob, it's because I messed up somehow. Consequences.

This game is about overpowered human players vs deeply underpowered and gimped mobs. And getting stacked more and more as we go on in suggestions.

There is a reason Shadowmeld became available for combat in later expansions, and that's because the player base became worse and also less tolerant of their own mistakes.

All just opinions, mind you.

[Lahire]

You are essentially asking to give Vanish to an entire race. Wouldn't it
1/ trivialize the leveling and HC experience for nelf (any mistake ? *vanish*)
2/ dissolve the specificity of the rogue class
?

[Emberlain]

Against this. Way too drastic of a change and could cause balance issues in PvP.

[Silverleafeon]

This is a wonderful idea! I didn't start playing WoW until Wrath, so I got used to it. When I tried Classic I was surprised that it wasn't a thing pre-Wrath.

Night Elves kinda got the short end of the stick as far as racials go.

Against this. Way too drastic of a change and could cause balance issues in PvP.

The current cooldown of shadowmeld is 10 seconds, which would definitely be OP if it could be used to escape combat. They increased it to 2 minutes in Wrath though, which I think is fair, and wouldn't cause any balance issues. In fact, one could argue that there is a balance issue currently, but allowing Shadowmeld to be used in combat would help balance things out.

[Ayesha]

I support this. It’s possible not to make it op in PvP, like a player can see you when they are 5-6 feet away. Something like that was implemented in wotlk, I didn’t think I could abuse that in PvP. But for priest it was extremely helpful in Pve

[Qixel]

Shadowmeld is removed when you move. This is true in vanilla, and it was true in Wrath. If you're using it in combat in pvp, your opponent knows where you are, and if they don't, you already lost them. Being said, the idea that rogues and druids don't get any use out of it right now isn't accurate. It passively increases their stealth level and gives an exceedingly niche use situation where you want to stealth quickly but stealth is on cooldown so you shadowmeld and wait for stealth to come off cooldown. Additionally, changing it for the wrath version would kill night elf hunters' ability to "stealth", so it's definitely a mixed bag.

[Mikecrow]

ITT players who never played WOTLK.

It literally doesn't break the game, it just makes shadowmeld actually useful.

[Atharyx]

Increasing the cooldown and make it usable in combat like in wrath seems fair. It's barely usable in the vanilla state.

[Sinrek]

If you suggest something for only 1 race/faction/class/skill then please take balance and PvP into consideration as well.

[Lahire]

HC would be far too easy with this.
"Oh-no i aggro'd 5 mobs ! Whatever, I just have to press 1 button and i vanish without any cost or reagent lol".

In War3 the combat nelf vanish took time + was only available during the night. Because it is one of the strongest moves of the game (and on all units ; if mastered you can virtually save from death all your units).
A getaway card this strong is imo a bad idea. And again : it would make rogues less unique and desirable by comparison.

[Ayesha]

HC would be far too easy with this.
"Oh-no i aggro'd 5 mobs ! Whatever, I just have to press 1 button and i vanish without any cost or reagent lol".

In War3 the combat nelf vanish took time + was only available during the night. Because it is one of the strongest moves of the game (and on all units ; if mastered you can virtually save from death all your units).
A getaway card this strong is imo a bad idea. And again : it would make rogues less unique and desirable by comparison.

I am pro shadowmeld in combat, but what you say for hc makes a lot of sense. I would think of maybe adding cast time there or adding chance there that makes it not 100% successful, but gives 100% for rogues.

Lore wise shadowmeld makes a lot of sense. Playing as A night elf warrior or a priest is a cosmetic choice where you sacrifice any useful racials, that’s my main problem with vanilla. Shadowmeld could fix that imo.

[Atharyx]

HC would be far too easy with this.
"Oh-no i aggro'd 5 mobs ! Whatever, I just have to press 1 button and i vanish without any cost or reagent lol".

In War3 the combat nelf vanish took time + was only available during the night. Because it is one of the strongest moves of the game (and on all units ; if mastered you can virtually save from death all your units).
A getaway card this strong is imo a bad idea. And again : it would make rogues less unique and desirable by comparison.

If it had a fast cast time something like 1-1.5 seconds and maybe a mana/energy cost would still be a lot better than basically not used at all also maybe more balanced in a hardcore sense. Also add a cooldown so it can't be used every fight.

Still everyone knows that some classes and races are just better and much easier for HC than others. For example rogue, mage and hunters are much easier than let's say warriors.

If we're balancing after HC we're in a lot of trouble. No blink for mages, no vanish in combat and no pets for hunters to match warriors?

It would certainly make rogues less unique in the sense that they wouldn't be alone with an "Oh-no" button in HC but in softcore it wouldn't hurt rogues at all.

[Mac]

Make it only work at night, as Elune intended.

[Merikkinon]

I do not want to see one race getting what might arguably be the most powerful combat racial, and at the same time diminish yet further the unique nature of rogues in the game.

[Ayesha]

Shadowmeld in wotlk was not Op because if the enemies are too close - they will see and attack you. So it’s like a chance. It’s not op in PvP because other players know where you are. Plus most of the time you would simply be too overwhelmed too even use it.

[Silverleafeon]

I do not want to see one race getting what might arguably be the most powerful combat racial, and at the same time diminish yet further the unique nature of rogues in the game.

It would be a good combat racial, but it would be far from the most powerful. What it would do is bring Night Elves on par with literally every other race. I've listed the racials that would be of any use in combat. (minus high elves and goblins) I put the Night Elf racials at the bottom of the list.

I don't really expect anyone to go through this entire list, but if you do, you'll see that basically every race except for Night Elves are built for combat. Unless you're playing as a feral druid or a rogue (which get a slight boost to stealth) the only thing Night Elves have going for them is a +1% dodge and +10 nature resistance (woohoo).

Dwarf
Stoneform: While active, grants immunity to Bleed, Poison, and Disease effects. In addition, Armor increased by 10%. Lasts 8 sec. 3 min cooldown.

Frost Resistance: Frost Resistance increased by 10.

Gun Specialization: Guns skill increased by 5.

Gnome
Escape Artist: Escape the effects of any immobilization or movement speed reduction effect. 1 sec cast. 1 min cooldown.

Arcane Resistance: Arcane Resistance increased by 10.

Expansive Mind: Intelligence increased by 5%.

Human
The Human Spirit: Increases spirit by 5%.

Mace Specialization: Skill with Maces and Two-Handed Maces increased by 5.

Sword Specialization: Skill with Swords and Two-Handed Swords increased by 5.

Perception: Dramatically increases stealth detection for 20 seconds. 3 min cooldown.

Orc
Blood Fury: Increases base melee attack power by 25% for 15 sec and reduces healing effects on you by 50% for 25 sec. 2 min cooldown.

Hardiness: Chance to resist Stun effects increased by an additional 25%.

Command: Damage done by Hunter and Warlock pets increased by 5%.

Axe Specialization: Skill with Axes and Two-Handed Axes increased by 5.

Tauren
War Stomp: Stuns up to 5 enemies within 8 yds for 2 sec. 2 min cooldown.

Endurance: Total Health increased by 5%.

Nature Resistance: Nature Resistance increased by 10.

Troll
Berserking: Increases your casting and attack speed by 10% to 25%. At full health the speed increase is 10% with a greater effect up to 25% if you are badly hurt when you activate Berserking. Lasts 10 sec. 3 min cooldown.
Regeneration: Health regeneration rate increased by 10%. 10% of total Health regeneration may continue during combat.

Beast Slaying: Damage dealt versus Beasts increased by 5%.

Throwing/Bow Specialization: Skill with Throwing/Bow Weapons increased by 5.

Undead
Will of the Forsaken: Provides immunity to Charm, Fear and Sleep while active. May also be used while already afflicted by Charm, Fear or Sleep. Lasts 5 sec. 2 min cooldown.

Cannibalize: When activated, regenerates 7% of total health every 2 sec for 10 sec. Only works on Humanoid or Undead corpses within 5 yds. Any movement, action, or damage taken while Cannibalizing will cancel the effect.

Shadow Resistance: Shadow Resistance increased by 10.

And Devouring Plague (included this because it's a rather OP undead only ability.

Night Elf
Shadowmeld: Activate to slip into the shadows, reducing the chance for enemies to detect your presence. Lasts until cancelled or upon moving. Night Elf Rogues and Druids with Shadowmeld are more difficult to detect while stealthed or prowling.

Quickness: Dodge chance increased by 1%.

Nature Resistance: Nature Resistance increased by 10.

To your point of diminishing the unique nature of rogues in the game, I see what you're saying. Rogues are know for slipping into the shadows and hiding in plain sight, so an entire race being able to do that would make rogues less unique. But as a rebuttal, by that logic, the very existence of Night Elves and Shadowmeld diminishes the nature of Rogues in the game. The entire Night Elf Race is known for being elusive and blending in to their surroundings. One could also argue that the existence of Rogues diminishes the unique nature of Night Elves in the game. Just saying.

Plus, you can't even move with shadowmeld, so prowl and stealth are still far superior.

In conclusion, I think Shadowmeld should be able to be used in combat with an increased cooldown. I believe it was changed in WotLK because they recognized that compared to every other race combat-wise, Night Elves were terrible.

[Lorencor]

Good ideia if Hardcore mode didn't exists

[Ayesha]

If we think about balancing HC, let’s delete paladin bubbles, hunter’s feign death and rogue vanish. Because HC is unbalanced for those players!

Still, my problem is still night elf/priest being the weakest combo for priest, and my favorite combo too. Probably like for night elf/warriors. This combo began to be enjoyable it wotlk, where you could shadowmeld in combat. If you don’t agree with shadowmeld in combat, please give your suggestions about how to balance this combo.

[Mac]

If cheesing hardcore mode is the big problem many people have with this, why not add a bit where you can't use it in combat if you're hardcore? Problem solved. Or make it where you start a Night Elf character and have the new in-combat Shadowmeld, but if you choose to go hardcore, it takes that away and gives you the old Shadowmeld. Then when (if) you hit 60 as a hardcore night elf character, your old Shadowmeld is replaced with the cool new one.

[Gantulga]

I know this is a necro but I'll pitch in.

This racial is almost entirely useless for rogue. The extra stealth levels you get as a compensation aren't really relevant.
Other classes can at least use it to eat/drink safely.

Maybe for rogue and when used in stealth, it could cap your stealth level so that you're immune to detection effects and can walk through monsters for 20s, on a cooldown of 3m? Sort of a counterpart to Perception.