What's your problem with premades?

[Dracarusggotham]

Yes, I fully understand that a premade will always win due to the organization; it's completely legal and fair, and objectively, there's no valid way to ban such a thing from the server.
So why ban it?
You'd be harming a group of players who are doing PvP and enjoying it legally and fairly just because you or your group can't win in BG; it's illogical and selfish.
Why don't you build your premade team?
And what bothers me the most is that they ask for BG Crossfaction when PvP doesn't need it and never will because the population is large enough, and the fact that your team is a bit of a PvP player doesn't justify including such an aberration against the lore because "Oh, Faction X is doing premades and we're losing, booo!" It's stupid.

[Caos]

WTF???
How the hell is fair a match of an organized group vs an unorganized one? (In no serious PvP game this is allowed)
These "playing with your friends" and similar excuses are bullshit and everybody knows, premades are an obvious trick to get free wins.
"Just make a premade yourself" is a weak excuse. In reality it takes time and some players just wanna log in and play.
In the end premades and pugs are 2 very diferent gameplays and it makes no sense at all to face eachother.

[basednoob]

obviously a rage bait post

[Bigsmerf]

(In no serious PvP game this is allowed)

Luhmao

[Snoodydood]

WTF???
How the hell is fair a match of an organized group vs an unorganized one? (In no serious PvP game this is allowed)
These "playing with your friends" and similar excuses are bullshit and everybody knows, premades are an obvious trick to get free wins.
"Just make a premade yourself" is a weak excuse. In reality it takes time and some players just wanna log in and play.
In the end premades and pugs are 2 very diferent gameplays and it makes no sense at all to face eachother.

This is why no one takes people who are against premades seriously.

[Frantsel]

That you even ask this question is ridiculous.

You are NOT ASKING. You just wanna state your silly unqualified and less informed opinion that it is "stupid".
This rethorical question reminds of rich people telling the poor that they try to harm them and they could just participate in this ugly system.
"Why dont you just work and become rich?"
You are twisting the status quo. Most people just wanna join a few bgs from time to time and have fun. You are obviously lacking empathy or the ability to view the needs of other people.
Most people dont wanna pvp 24/7 and form a specific grp of nolifers to just casual pvp.

Ridiculous take my dude. Ridiculous. Maybe ask yourself what could be the need of others? What do others want? Am I just pushing my OWN opinion? If so, maybe just ... ask chatgpt.

Pvp on twow is in shambles. It is utterly broken. While typing this I queued for all bgs and they dont pop since over 30 minutes (it is satureday afternoon).

There are literally ZERO new players coming in.

Nobody wants to start pvping bc of premades, unbalanced classes AND powercreep.

If you want your real challenge make a premade, but then you can only fight other premades.

Otherwise mix it up. Make pvp more casual. Let new players have at least some fun.

We experience a situation in which the pvp scene is LITERALLY dead since YEARS. We must now salvage and make pvp fun for as many players as possible so they might join, instead of making it comfortable to grind rank for a few!

If your solution really is "just make a premade too". Well then pvp is absolutely dead most likely already rotten and in the garbage. I am not expecting you to bring any good ideas how to fix this quite complex issue. But please dude. Think before you post. Please!

The fun of a few should never be in the focus if it harms many others.

To finish this and to make my point more clear let me ask you one question:

Do you enjoy playing against non-premade grps when you are in your premade?

[Reploidrocsa]

[Atreidon]

Battlegrounds are not 1:1, they are a social environment in a social game.
The game encourages you to try and do everything in your power to win at pvp. Plenty of consumables and the entire profession od engineering more or less just exist for the express purpose of giving you an edge.

I have yet to see pvp players wanting engineering and free action potions gone from battlegrounds, but the most natural way for people to optimize their pvp experience (by queing with friends that make wins more likely and losses less frustrating)

thats what some people want to stop.

"I dont have any friends so neither can you" is not only the most selfish claim. But it fails to even consider the game on which it is imposed. Go play duels or starcraft or rock paper scissors to eliminate the influence team coordination has on winning a game.

At the same time. Forbidding crossfaction groups is exactly as retarded for the same reason (at least on nordrannar). Half my guild is from the other faction and the game prevents me from playing with em for lore reasons. But then lore doesnt matter the second we arent in a battleground.

By allowing xfaction not only do you reduce q times and allow players to play with their friends from the other faction.you also make the player pool effectively twice as deep so less premade vs random teams have to occur. As you can pair two premade teams of the same faction against one another. Instead of them roflstomping one grp of the other faction each. Increasing game quality for everyone.

[Dracarusggotham]

Battlegrounds are not 1:1, they are a social environment in a social game.
The game encourages you to try and do everything in your power to win at pvp. Plenty of consumables and the entire profession od engineering more or less just exist for the express purpose of giving you an edge.

I have yet to see pvp players wanting engineering and free action potions gone from battlegrounds, but the most natural way for people to optimize their pvp experience (by queing with friends that make wins more likely and losses less frustrating)

thats what some people want to stop.

"I dont have any friends so neither can you" is not only the most selfish claim. But it fails to even consider the game on which it is imposed. Go play duels or starcraft or rock paper scissors to eliminate the influence team coordination has on winning a game.

At the same time. Forbidding crossfaction groups is exactly as retarded for the same reason (at least on nordrannar). Half my guild is from the other faction and the game prevents me from playing with em for lore reasons. But then lore doesnt matter the second we arent in a battleground.

By allowing xfaction not only do you reduce q times and allow players to play with their friends from the other faction.you also make the player pool effectively twice as deep so less premade vs random teams have to occur. As you can pair two premade teams of the same faction against one another. Instead of them roflstomping one grp of the other faction each. Increasing game quality for everyone.

I will always respect the lore above all else. Crossfaction in the world has a justification, even at the lore level. Even though they are enemy factions, they can occasionally collaborate to achieve a common goal.
However, this isn't the case in Battlegrounds, as they have a fixed Alliance vs. Horde lore, and that's why Turtle's developers have never implemented it and are seeking to never do so at all costs, improving PvP.
And premades certainly aren't the necessary justification, given that it's not illegal or a balance issue; it's simply people playing differently.

And I doubt Turtle will implement BG Crossfaction anyway, because they respect the lore above all else.

The only selfish people are those who want to break the very foundation of the game just because others can find someone to premake with for enjoyable PvP. This is how the game has worked from its inception to the present day, even in retail. It's inevitable and unfortunately impossible to fix, no matter what version of the game you're playing.
Other times, I tell them to move on to another server with more balanced PvP, but this isn't a matter of balance or the game's internal code; it's simply the ways thousands of daily players play. Live with it.

[Frantsel]

Battlegrounds are not 1:1, they are a social environment in a social game.
The game encourages you to try and do everything in your power to win at pvp. Plenty of consumables and the entire profession od engineering more or less just exist for the express purpose of giving you an edge.

I have yet to see pvp players wanting engineering and free action potions gone from battlegrounds, but the most natural way for people to optimize their pvp experience (by queing with friends that make wins more likely and losses less frustrating)

thats what some people want to stop.

"I dont have any friends so neither can you" is not only the most selfish claim. But it fails to even consider the game on which it is imposed. Go play duels or starcraft or rock paper scissors to eliminate the influence team coordination has on winning a game.

At the same time. Forbidding crossfaction groups is exactly as retarded for the same reason (at least on nordrannar). Half my guild is from the other faction and the game prevents me from playing with em for lore reasons. But then lore doesnt matter the second we arent in a battleground.

By allowing xfaction not only do you reduce q times and allow players to play with their friends from the other faction.you also make the player pool effectively twice as deep so less premade vs random teams have to occur. As you can pair two premade teams of the same faction against one another. Instead of them roflstomping one grp of the other faction each. Increasing game quality for everyone.

I will always respect the lore above all else. Crossfaction in the world has a justification, even at the lore level. Even though they are enemy factions, they can occasionally collaborate to achieve a common goal.
However, this isn't the case in Battlegrounds, as they have a fixed Alliance vs. Horde lore, and that's why Turtle's developers have never implemented it and are seeking to never do so at all costs, improving PvP.
And premades certainly aren't the necessary justification, given that it's not illegal or a balance issue; it's simply people playing differently.

And I doubt Turtle will implement BG Crossfaction anyway, because they respect the lore above all else.

The only selfish people are those who want to break the very foundation of the game just because others can find someone to premake with for enjoyable PvP. This is how the game has worked from its inception to the present day, even in retail. It's inevitable and unfortunately impossible to fix, no matter what version of the game you're playing.
Other times, I tell them to move on to another server with more balanced PvP, but this isn't a matter of balance or the game's internal code; it's simply the ways thousands of daily players play. Live with it.

The only thing you are dropping here is your personal opinion. I dont see any valid argument here.

Pvp is a dead horse and your still beating it. Not even interested how to fix it.

"Its been like that and will forever be like that until we die."

Are you kidding me?

What is really disturbing is the way you drop your opinion like facts. Turtle devs already said they wanna implement x-faction bgs.

Who the fuck gives a shit about lore if one system is fundamentally broken?

[Dracarusggotham]

Battlegrounds are not 1:1, they are a social environment in a social game.
The game encourages you to try and do everything in your power to win at pvp. Plenty of consumables and the entire profession od engineering more or less just exist for the express purpose of giving you an edge.

I have yet to see pvp players wanting engineering and free action potions gone from battlegrounds, but the most natural way for people to optimize their pvp experience (by queing with friends that make wins more likely and losses less frustrating)

thats what some people want to stop.

"I dont have any friends so neither can you" is not only the most selfish claim. But it fails to even consider the game on which it is imposed. Go play duels or starcraft or rock paper scissors to eliminate the influence team coordination has on winning a game.

At the same time. Forbidding crossfaction groups is exactly as retarded for the same reason (at least on nordrannar). Half my guild is from the other faction and the game prevents me from playing with em for lore reasons. But then lore doesnt matter the second we arent in a battleground.

By allowing xfaction not only do you reduce q times and allow players to play with their friends from the other faction.you also make the player pool effectively twice as deep so less premade vs random teams have to occur. As you can pair two premade teams of the same faction against one another. Instead of them roflstomping one grp of the other faction each. Increasing game quality for everyone.

I will always respect the lore above all else. Crossfaction in the world has a justification, even at the lore level. Even though they are enemy factions, they can occasionally collaborate to achieve a common goal.
However, this isn't the case in Battlegrounds, as they have a fixed Alliance vs. Horde lore, and that's why Turtle's developers have never implemented it and are seeking to never do so at all costs, improving PvP.
And premades certainly aren't the necessary justification, given that it's not illegal or a balance issue; it's simply people playing differently.

And I doubt Turtle will implement BG Crossfaction anyway, because they respect the lore above all else.

The only selfish people are those who want to break the very foundation of the game just because others can find someone to premake with for enjoyable PvP. This is how the game has worked from its inception to the present day, even in retail. It's inevitable and unfortunately impossible to fix, no matter what version of the game you're playing.
Other times, I tell them to move on to another server with more balanced PvP, but this isn't a matter of balance or the game's internal code; it's simply the ways thousands of daily players play. Live with it.

The only thing you are dropping here is your personal opinion. I dont see any valid argument here.

Pvp is a dead horse and your still beating it. Not even interested how to fix it.

"Its been like that and will forever be like that until we die."

Are you kidding me?

What is really disturbing is the way you drop your opinion like facts. Turtle devs already said they wanna implement x-faction bgs.

Who the fuck gives a shit about lore if one system is fundamentally broken?

Who cares about the lore? Everyone, if you're not interested, I don't know what you're doing here, since PvE and lore have always been the central core of this world. And yes, the truth is, I've played, I've complained, and I'm just waiting for the next patches that come with PvP improvements to see how things work, on my own, I don't spend day and night crying that premades are unfair, boo, or that CC2 broke my class, boo, and a long list of etceteras that can go on forever.

With all due respect, PvP players are the whiniest kind of player I've seen on these forums, complaining about even the color of the grass in Hyjal because it favors those wearing green armor.

Why aren't there paladins in the Horde? Because of the lore.
Why aren't there Shamans in the Alliance? Because of the lore.
Why aren't there blue Draenei? Because of the lore.
Why isn't there a BG Crossfaction? Because of the damn lore.

If you're going to change something here, always needs to respect the LORE.

Seriously, it's not that hard to understand.

[Caos]

WTF???
How the hell is fair a match of an organized group vs an unorganized one? (In no serious PvP game this is allowed)
These "playing with your friends" and similar excuses are bullshit and everybody knows, premades are an obvious trick to get free wins.
"Just make a premade yourself" is a weak excuse. In reality it takes time and some players just wanna log in and play.
In the end premades and pugs are 2 very diferent gameplays and it makes no sense at all to face eachother.

This is why no one takes people who are against premades seriously.

can you write at least 2 or 3 lines so I can understand what you are saying?

[Caos]

Battlegrounds are not 1:1, they are a social environment in a social game.
The game encourages you to try and do everything in your power to win at pvp. Plenty of consumables and the entire profession od engineering more or less just exist for the express purpose of giving you an edge.

I have yet to see pvp players wanting engineering and free action potions gone from battlegrounds, but the most natural way for people to optimize their pvp experience (by queing with friends that make wins more likely and losses less frustrating)

thats what some people want to stop.

"I dont have any friends so neither can you" is not only the most selfish claim. But it fails to even consider the game on which it is imposed. Go play duels or starcraft or rock paper scissors to eliminate the influence team coordination has on winning a game.

At the same time. Forbidding crossfaction groups is exactly as retarded for the same reason (at least on nordrannar). Half my guild is from the other faction and the game prevents me from playing with em for lore reasons. But then lore doesnt matter the second we arent in a battleground.

By allowing xfaction not only do you reduce q times and allow players to play with their friends from the other faction.you also make the player pool effectively twice as deep so less premade vs random teams have to occur. As you can pair two premade teams of the same faction against one another. Instead of them roflstomping one grp of the other faction each. Increasing game quality for everyone.

What's wrong with wanting to join a quick match with a random group against another random group?
Nobody cares that you play with your friends they just don't wanna play against a group of "friends" all close to BIS and popping consumes with a random group that can be whatever.
PUGs and premades are very diferent in power and it makes no sense to match them against eachother.

[Atreidon]

Battlegrounds are not 1:1, they are a social environment in a social game.
The game encourages you to try and do everything in your power to win at pvp. Plenty of consumables and the entire profession od engineering more or less just exist for the express purpose of giving you an edge.

I have yet to see pvp players wanting engineering and free action potions gone from battlegrounds, but the most natural way for people to optimize their pvp experience (by queing with friends that make wins more likely and losses less frustrating)

thats what some people want to stop.

"I dont have any friends so neither can you" is not only the most selfish claim. But it fails to even consider the game on which it is imposed. Go play duels or starcraft or rock paper scissors to eliminate the influence team coordination has on winning a game.

At the same time. Forbidding crossfaction groups is exactly as retarded for the same reason (at least on nordrannar). Half my guild is from the other faction and the game prevents me from playing with em for lore reasons. But then lore doesnt matter the second we arent in a battleground.

By allowing xfaction not only do you reduce q times and allow players to play with their friends from the other faction.you also make the player pool effectively twice as deep so less premade vs random teams have to occur. As you can pair two premade teams of the same faction against one another. Instead of them roflstomping one grp of the other faction each. Increasing game quality for everyone.

What's wrong with wanting to join a quick match with a random group against another random group?
Nobody cares that you play with your friends they just don't wanna play against a group of "friends" all close to BIS and popping consumes with a random group that can be whatever.
PUGs and premades are very diferent in power and it makes no sense to match them against eachother.

Totally nothing wrong with wanting a decent quick match of pv within your skillbracket.
The issue arises with people who call out to forbid premades, so EVERYONE has to have that chaotic disorganized pvp experience that is synonymous with soloque.

Banning premades also simply just DOESNT WORK. Plenty of servers have tried it with always the same result. Que dodging galore so the premades still ended up together. The smaller the pvp community on a server is to begin with the easier this is to exploit, and the worse of it leaves pvp for everyone left over.

The only way you can break up the problem is by making pvp popular enough to where both groups can have their own ques. And turtle is approximately a decade away from that. So we can choose to pretend this is solvable or focus on things that would actually improve the situation by deepening player pools (like xfaction or more refined pvp fitting class changes than what we have atm)

[Caos]

Battlegrounds are not 1:1, they are a social environment in a social game.
The game encourages you to try and do everything in your power to win at pvp. Plenty of consumables and the entire profession od engineering more or less just exist for the express purpose of giving you an edge.

I have yet to see pvp players wanting engineering and free action potions gone from battlegrounds, but the most natural way for people to optimize their pvp experience (by queing with friends that make wins more likely and losses less frustrating)

thats what some people want to stop.

"I dont have any friends so neither can you" is not only the most selfish claim. But it fails to even consider the game on which it is imposed. Go play duels or starcraft or rock paper scissors to eliminate the influence team coordination has on winning a game.

At the same time. Forbidding crossfaction groups is exactly as retarded for the same reason (at least on nordrannar). Half my guild is from the other faction and the game prevents me from playing with em for lore reasons. But then lore doesnt matter the second we arent in a battleground.

By allowing xfaction not only do you reduce q times and allow players to play with their friends from the other faction.you also make the player pool effectively twice as deep so less premade vs random teams have to occur. As you can pair two premade teams of the same faction against one another. Instead of them roflstomping one grp of the other faction each. Increasing game quality for everyone.

What's wrong with wanting to join a quick match with a random group against another random group?
Nobody cares that you play with your friends they just don't wanna play against a group of "friends" all close to BIS and popping consumes with a random group that can be whatever.
PUGs and premades are very diferent in power and it makes no sense to match them against eachother.

Totally nothing wrong with wanting a decent quick match of pv within your skillbracket.
The issue arises with people who call out to forbid premades, so EVERYONE has to have that chaotic disorganized pvp experience that is synonymous with soloque.

Banning premades also simply just DOESNT WORK. Plenty of servers have tried it with always the same result. Que dodging galore so the premades still ended up together. The smaller the pvp community on a server is to begin with the easier this is to exploit, and the worse of it leaves pvp for everyone left over.

The only way you can break up the problem is by making pvp popular enough to where both groups can have their own ques. And turtle is approximately a decade away from that. So we can choose to pretend this is solvable or focus on things that would actually improve the situation by deepening player pools (like xfaction or more refined pvp fitting class changes than what we have atm)

I don't think people winning about premades care at all if premades have their own queue.
The issue can be solved to a degree right now by just making 2 separate queues. Even if premades are doable making them harder to organize will reduce their number.
Premade queue may be dead but that is not the problem of the people who want a disorganized experience.

[Caos]

Maybe premade queue could be cross faction.
Lore wise its like a fight between 2 groups of mercenaries so it makes sense.

[Atreidon]

What's wrong with wanting to join a quick match with a random group against another random group?
Nobody cares that you play with your friends they just don't wanna play against a group of "friends" all close to BIS and popping consumes with a random group that can be whatever.
PUGs and premades are very diferent in power and it makes no sense to match them against eachother.

Totally nothing wrong with wanting a decent quick match of pv within your skillbracket.
The issue arises with people who call out to forbid premades, so EVERYONE has to have that chaotic disorganized pvp experience that is synonymous with soloque.

Banning premades also simply just DOESNT WORK. Plenty of servers have tried it with always the same result. Que dodging galore so the premades still ended up together. The smaller the pvp community on a server is to begin with the easier this is to exploit, and the worse of it leaves pvp for everyone left over.

The only way you can break up the problem is by making pvp popular enough to where both groups can have their own ques. And turtle is approximately a decade away from that. So we can choose to pretend this is solvable or focus on things that would actually improve the situation by deepening player pools (like xfaction or more refined pvp fitting class changes than what we have atm)

I don't think people winning about premades care at all if premades have their own queue.
The issue can be solved to a degree right now by just making 2 separate queues. Even if premades are doable making them harder to organize will reduce their number.
Premade queue may be dead but that is not the problem of the people who want a disorganized experience.

Thats exactly the shortsightednes that doest work i was refering to. If you cant que as premade, you que all together in soloque (with some "filler alts" at the beginning of your stacks que. If a que pops for the majority of the grp, you enter with a filler alt to check, if its a new bg, you dodge with the fillers and join with the squad. If it isnt, you fill it with alts to get your team to the spots in the forefront of your que. If you dont wanna risk your alt get banned, you play that round till the next bg pops. And then you just quit the open bg on your alt as soon as your pregame round starts. Fully legal and ruining the bgs by producingcountless full grp vs half grp situations...

As long as premading is possible, people will do so. Doubly so if it protects them from queing with literal greens that dinged 2h ago. And by trying to chain them into the soloque mess, you only make it worse for everyone - including the soloque players

[amanagor]

Totally nothing wrong with wanting a decent quick match of pv within your skillbracket.
The issue arises with people who call out to forbid premades, so EVERYONE has to have that chaotic disorganized pvp experience that is synonymous with soloque.

Banning premades also simply just DOESNT WORK. Plenty of servers have tried it with always the same result. Que dodging galore so the premades still ended up together. The smaller the pvp community on a server is to begin with the easier this is to exploit, and the worse of it leaves pvp for everyone left over.

The only way you can break up the problem is by making pvp popular enough to where both groups can have their own ques. And turtle is approximately a decade away from that. So we can choose to pretend this is solvable or focus on things that would actually improve the situation by deepening player pools (like xfaction or more refined pvp fitting class changes than what we have atm)

I don't think people winning about premades care at all if premades have their own queue.
The issue can be solved to a degree right now by just making 2 separate queues. Even if premades are doable making them harder to organize will reduce their number.
Premade queue may be dead but that is not the problem of the people who want a disorganized experience.

Thats exactly the shortsightednes that doest work i was refering to. If you cant que as premade, you que all together in soloque (with some "filler alts" at the beginning of your stacks que. If a que pops for the majority of the grp, you enter with a filler alt to check, if its a new bg, you dodge with the fillers and join with the squad. If it isnt, you fill it with alts to get your team to the spots in the forefront of your que. If you dont wanna risk your alt get banned, you play that round till the next bg pops. And then you just quit the open bg on your alt as soon as your pregame round starts. Fully legal and ruining the bgs by producingcountless full grp vs half grp situations...

As long as premading is possible, people will do so. Doubly so if it protects them from queing with literal greens that dinged 2h ago. And by trying to chain them into the soloque mess, you only make it worse for everyone - including the soloque players

perma ban people that do this. Shouldn't be all that difficult to monitor.

[Atreidon]

Quickest way to kill pvp for good by permabanning the ones who actually still play it.

In an ideal world, ye sure ban all of them.

In practice however, banning pemates is just shooting yourself and everyone who genuinely plays pvp in the foot

[Caos]

Totally nothing wrong with wanting a decent quick match of pv within your skillbracket.
The issue arises with people who call out to forbid premades, so EVERYONE has to have that chaotic disorganized pvp experience that is synonymous with soloque.

Banning premades also simply just DOESNT WORK. Plenty of servers have tried it with always the same result. Que dodging galore so the premades still ended up together. The smaller the pvp community on a server is to begin with the easier this is to exploit, and the worse of it leaves pvp for everyone left over.

The only way you can break up the problem is by making pvp popular enough to where both groups can have their own ques. And turtle is approximately a decade away from that. So we can choose to pretend this is solvable or focus on things that would actually improve the situation by deepening player pools (like xfaction or more refined pvp fitting class changes than what we have atm)

I don't think people winning about premades care at all if premades have their own queue.
The issue can be solved to a degree right now by just making 2 separate queues. Even if premades are doable making them harder to organize will reduce their number.
Premade queue may be dead but that is not the problem of the people who want a disorganized experience.

Thats exactly the shortsightednes that doest work i was refering to. If you cant que as premade, you que all together in soloque (with some "filler alts" at the beginning of your stacks que. If a que pops for the majority of the grp, you enter with a filler alt to check, if its a new bg, you dodge with the fillers and join with the squad. If it isnt, you fill it with alts to get your team to the spots in the forefront of your que. If you dont wanna risk your alt get banned, you play that round till the next bg pops. And then you just quit the open bg on your alt as soon as your pregame round starts. Fully legal and ruining the bgs by producingcountless full grp vs half grp situations...

As long as premading is possible, people will do so. Doubly so if it protects them from queing with literal greens that dinged 2h ago. And by trying to chain them into the soloque mess, you only make it worse for everyone - including the soloque players

If you just enter some randomness in the queue, like swapping some positions on the queue when a new BG starts or every minute, wouldn't it solve it?

[Atreidon]

You make it worse, because the burner chars dont care if they have to /afk out. So the more burner chars you que the higher the chance you end up together.

What does help is xfaction, as you cant guarantee which side you would end up. But that hella invites wintrading if you cant que with preates while thats active (6of your premade on on side and 4 on the other) - let the 6 quickly win and reque

[Caos]

You make it worse, because the burner chars dont care if they have to /afk out. So the more burner chars you que the higher the chance you end up together.

What does help is xfaction, as you cant guarantee which side you would end up. But that hella invites wintrading if you cant que with preates while thats active (6of your premade on on side and 4 on the other) - let the 6 quickly win and reque

I don't think you can "cheat" a random system with burner chars.
If queueing at the same time doesn't guarantee your group has adjacent positions in the queue adding burner chars won't do that much.
Apart that each burner char needs to be level to 60.

Swapping positions may be a little hard depending on how the queue works but you could just wait a random small number of seconds (0-10) (0-30) diferent for each player and then put the player on the queue.

[Terrydavis]

the only people i see crying about premades are horde usually. they are so used to wiping the floor with alliance that they completely lose their shit when they lose on their undead+engi toons.

you couldnt pay me enough to join a wsg or arathi outside of premades as alliance. no way, thats masochism.


the real problem on this server are the cheaters, ok. they put their alts on mobile internet and que them into the alliance team. it is very obvious there are some horde players who are looking at the alliance map. there are horde rogues getting over 1 kill per minute just walking from kill to kill and the second i accuse them of cheating the rate goes down to 0.2 kills per minute. really strange, eh? at some point this was so bad we had 2 alliance vs 12 horde wsg games caused by people jamming the que with their cheating garbage. this is why you should NOT play pvp on turtle wow at all. this took so many months to "fix" that most good alliance people have quit. at best 10% remain.

= the #1 reason why pvp on turtle sucks now is because horde is way too toxic. constant cheating, constant graveyard camping, constant safe-spotting, weird whispers and yelling all the time. the community itself is just shit now. this was very different in the past. must be because of retail andies coming here.