Remove Turtle Mounts, Azure Drakes and Cloud Pets

[Karmax]

I like this server a lot, but there are some additions that irked me since I recently started playing here, because they contradict the spirit of Vanilla WoW and WarCraft 3 (which the developers emphasise to strive for).

1. Turtle Mounts
Hitting level 40 always marked a major milestone in Vanilla WoW.
Until then one had to walk, which added to the marvel and vastness (and danger) of the world.
Giving people a mount at level 5 (even if it's slow) just takes away from this feeling of accomplishment.
On top of that I think that - of all the things - turtle mounts stultify the atmosphere of World of WarCraft.
I mean, this is - besides some comical relief - still a rather dangerous and dark world where two major factions are at each other's throat, a world threatened by the scourge and Burning Legion... It is NOT World of CuteCraft.
Personally, I refuse to use the Turtle Mount. I don't like it. I think it's ridiculous and takes away from the overall atmosphere of this game.

2. Azure Drakes
This seems more like an addition in line with today's retail Blizzard where everyone strives to excel.
Bigger mounts, more bling-bling, more stuff that totally doesn't fit into the down-to-earth atmosphere of the original game.
Stop this. Players shouldn't be allowed to own or ride mounts like that, it's ridiculous.

3. Cloud Pets
Aww.... they are so cute! Yes, they are - and they 100% don't fit into Vanilla WoW.
It's the same with the Azure Drake: People want to stand out and apparently the server owners are willing to give in to these demands - at the expense of a cohesive world.
Again: It's ridiculous and kills the RP aspect of the game.

There's probably more stuff like that which I haven't encountered yet, but you get the idea.

I totally don't expect that these additions get removed - I don't even expect approval, because I'm sure the majority of people like these changes - changes, which I think led to the demise of WoW.
But at least I voiced my opinion - and maybe gave the go-ahead for a (civil) discussion...

[Druhanov]

+1 im with you, 100 %

[Gheor]

Hello there Karmax,

First of all thank you for choosing our server. Followed by I am very sorry to hear there are some aspects of it that you don't really agree with, which is totally understandable, please allow me to try and explain the situation although I can't promise this will 100% be something you'd like to hear.

Yes, the turtle mount is quite comical but it's not something we just up and decided we should add for no reason at all, Warcraft III and Vanilla itself had various comical implementations, the turtle mount also signifies the server's theme and with the addition of speed increasing as you level up there's also the idea of you start slow and get faster everytime, which after some thought would make you realise it's also part of our server's theme.

When it comes to drakes, we've never once thought to make them a flying mount nor do we intend to. I understand it's simply a matter of taste here, some would argue a tameable dragon is also part of the fantasy world/game concept.

When it comes to Cloud Drakes, let me reconfirm the fact that Chen Stormstout was part of Warcraft III, a presumed island known as Pandaria was pointed out to be real even though it might've been considered comical relief.

And I definitely misunderstood that, you meant the cloud mounts.
None of the extra store features are by any means canon with the actual lore, none. Whatever you obtain through gameplay and quests are part of the actual lore. The rest is cosmetical and shouldn't influence the lore at all.

If you wish to argue why there is a store in the first a place that's a whole different story with a very short and real answer.

Allow me to once again apologize for the inconvenience but it's not something we will remove at least from what I know and from where I am standing, after all, as I said before those are simply cosmetics that shouldn't be taken seriously at all.

And as a final thank you, thank you once again for choosing our server and for voicing your opinion, we keep our players opinions in high regard and we will definitely try to have less of this in the future.

Take it slow!

[Yutilk]

How about you only get a low level mount after you reach max level on another character? On the other hand it's the server's mascot and is a great promotional tool.

[Lukkas462]

No.

[Lahire]

Don't take away me turtle!

[Fizzeek]

Welcome to Turtle Wow, enjoy your turtle!

[Lichenwitch]

No, the turtle is awesome, and twow is allowed to have some of it's own unique things, it adds to the charm.

[Karmax]

...

Hello Gheor,

thank you for your elaborate reply.

I totally understand the reasoning behind the implementation of the Turtle Mount.
Yes, it fits in with the server's theme - it's perfect from a "corporate identity" point of view.
Any marketing guy would probably applaud you on this move.

However, was it really needed?
You say that the idea is to start slow and go faster by time, but Vanilla WoW already has a system like this implemented by default:
You start slow with two healthy feet (hooves), later on almost every class gets at least one ability which makes travelling a bit less inconvenient (Blink, Sprint, Travel Form, Aspect of the Cheetah, Ghost Wolf, Charge, etc.) - until you finally get your mount at level 40.

And by the way:
Wasn't the original idea of this server to take it slow (even level at half XP rates)?
Why the need to give players something that goes directly against this idea?

That being said I find the idea of scaling mounts definitely interesting and would probably enjoy it in a different game.

Regarding the drake:
I'm aware it's just a ground mount, but I stand by my opinion that it's simply too big and too flamboyant to fit in the existing world.
I wished hardcore players (I'm playing a HC alt myself btw.) would have received a more sublime reward.

Regarding the Cloud Mount / Pet:
I haven't seen the Cloud Mount yet, but you can be sure it wouldn't evoke a different reaction from me than the pet.

I think it's kinda sad that you openly admit that everything added to the game is lore-friendly while items sold on the shop are not - which brings me to the next topic.

Cash shop:
I feel like you guys are kind of servants of two masters - on the one hand you want to create an expanded version of Vanilla true to the roots of Warcraft, while on the other hand you have monetary interests which potentially go against the creative spirit of your project.
Personally, I'm very wary of private server projects with cash shops - and usually it's a dealbreaker for me.
It's also one of several reasons why I avoided Turtle WoW for years, although the concept has always fascinated me.
I'm totally fine with donations - as long as people don't expect anything in return but supporting a project they like.
Other than that everything should be accessible by simply playing the game.
I also find it funny that you (and several others who defend the existence of cash shops) keep repeating that it only offers cosmetic items. This is simply not true.
I may be old, but I'm pretty sure that bags, mounts and summonable mailboxes don't count as "cosmetic".
So, either some people need to look up the term "cosmetic" - or the meaning has changed over the past 15 years or so...

Now, my whole post may sound overly critical, negative even, so I wanted to conclude by stating that I'm really glad I finally overcame my aversion towards the server and gave it a try.

I've been playing WoW since EU release, pretty much stopped playing with WotLK (totally didn't like the changes) and have been playing private Vanilla servers ever since - to a point where the game became more of a bad habit on top of being a rather stale experience.

That's why I enjoy the heck out of Turtle WoW right now, exploring all the new custom content.
Is it perfect? No, far from it - and part of it could have easily been avoided, but yeah...

Thanks to the whole staff for making this experience possible.

[Jombo]

I agree 100% with OP. These features are a detriment to the server and it's ability to get new players who want a real experience of how vanilla should have evolved. The turtle mount especially is such a turnoff, and even from the signature animal side of things, we already have a turtle pet, which should clearly be enough. The mount is just ridiculous. (I am, by the way, a lvl 60 raider, pvper and an otherwise very big fan of Turtle Wow).
In addition:
There is a conflicting design philosophy behind this:
A wish to have the signature turtle so visible everywhere + some silly custom mounts- that it seems like a fun server, while at the same time wanting to lead a faithful, serious expansion of Wow vanilla. These two things are not compatible, and hopefully the developers will realise this soon.
I think Turtle has evolved immensely the last year and the Devs have to now let go of the old cozy sides like Turtle mount to make a more professional and well-crafted experience in the spirit of vanilla. This is after all what they are already trying to achieve with otherwise impressive results.

[Proudwell]

I try not to make scathing criticisms of Turtle but the cash shop is definitely a turn off. The fact that it's always with you. A cute turtle that wants money and will give you gameplay advantages if you pay up.

And yeah, they are advantages. If I can pay ~$24USD for a 36 slot bag or the ability to repair on the fly, I've got a distinct advantage over other players because I paid real money and they didn't.

There's also the sheer prices of things. A skin is $18USD? Well uh, okay. That Scarlet Legion tabard that's actually something RPers can use on this RP-PvE project? $24. A really big mount? $40!

I don't know. Again, I enjoy Turtle a lot and don't like criticizing it but there's basically a cancer grown into it that you gotta work alongside because it's just a fact of life. Maybe you can get 200 tokens from leveling 1-60 in Turtle Mode. Good for you? That's a 1-time way to get effectively 1-2 cosmetics or "cosmetic" (depending on what you get). There's no renewable way to get coins other than giving large sums of $.

[Fizzeek]

While bag space and repairbot aren't exactly cosmetic, it's a stretch to call it a significant advantage in any real way.

[Proudwell]

While bag space and repairbot aren't exactly cosmetic, it's a stretch to call it a significant advantage in any real way.

What about dual specialization (or whatever the current functionality is)? The Brainwashing Device allows for on-the-fly changes without needing to visit a class trainer.

[Fizzeek]

/shrug

It saves you visiting your trainer. Still costs the 5g to respec. Kinda like repairbot saving you a trip to a repair vendor. I don't envy anyone who has either of them. They would be NICE sure, but not even remotely necessary to do things.

[Jombo]

Furthermore, I agree with OP about the payment issue. Actually, I believe MORE donations would be made if the silly shop was reduced to only more serious things. Personally I don't mind the repair bot or mule/kodo bank, but I think the auctioneer is immersion breaking along with all the mentioned drakes and clouds.
Rebranding itself a little, Turtle will be able to get a large influx of new players who are tired of blizzard AND boring private servers and want the great innovations and designs of Turtle Wow. This would naturally lead to more donations as well as a token of appreciation, not to get a silly cloud to ride on. Personally I would most likely make a donation if this was the case.
Finally, I think the buyable tabards completely ruin the point of getting exalted with those tabard factions.

[Lichenwitch]

/shrug

It saves you visiting your trainer. Still costs the 5g to respec. Kinda like repairbot saving you a trip to a repair vendor. I don't envy anyone who has either of them. They would be NICE sure, but not even remotely necessary to do things.

I agree with this. They are not really advantages in any sense of the word, they are simply a convenience that you can pay for. Also, a matter of only wanting things "serious" (subjective value) in WoW is well... a personal opinion. There are plenty of sillier and humorous things in the game. And as twow is doing incredibly well for a vanilla private server I don't see the argument that the cute mount turns people off, in fact in game I have heard from several people who were delighted by it and kept playing inititally because of the good vibes the game has, which is represented by the chill turtle.

[Karmax]

Furthermore, I agree with OP about the payment issue. Actually, I believe MORE donations would be made if the silly shop was reduced to only more serious things. Personally I don't mind the repair bot or mule/kodo bank, but I think the auctioneer is immersion breaking along with all the mentioned drakes and clouds.
Rebranding itself a little, Turtle will be able to get a large influx of new players who are tired of blizzard AND boring private servers and want the great innovations and designs of Turtle Wow. This would naturally lead to more donations as well as a token of appreciation, not to get a silly cloud to ride on. Personally I would most likely make a donation if this was the case.
Finally, I think the buyable tabards completely ruin the point of getting exalted with those tabard factions.

Agreed.

I would totally donate to the server if there wasn't a cash shop.
Maybe I'm a bit old-school, but the more I get the feeling monetary interest is involved the lower my incentive to donate.

However, this doesn't apply for everyone - and I have no illusions regarding the profitability of cash shops.
Unlike you I don't think that donations alone would bring in more money.

Most people need an incentive to donate that goes beyond "cool server, I like it" - they want a clear equivalent for their hard-earned money.
And unfortunately the rarer, the flashier the item the higher the willingness to open up their pockets.

And this is exactly what I criticize about Turtle WoW.
Yes, flashy items bring more money, but they also undermine the (RP) atmosphere of the server - this IS a RP after all, right?

But it's not only the "flashiness" of items.
When you see a guy on his Spectral Tiger with a happy little cloud in tow, surrounded by his Mule (bank access), Repair Bot (sell & repair), Summonable Mailbox (mail), Summonable Auctioneer (AH) and Brainwashing Device (talent reset) you can't help but feel reminded of what the game has come to on retail.
Is this the vision the developers originally had when they wanted to create a slower and RP-friendly alternative version of Vanilla WoW?

On top of that there's the economical influx of some of these items - like bags and mounts.
People who buy those spend less gold in the game, tailors sell less bags because of it.

But I see that the "it's not so bad" cash shop apologists have already trickled into this thread.

15 years ago players would have gone on a rampage if Blizzard had introduced stuff like that - today: /shrug.

[Torta]

Greetings! Server admin here.

I've restored this thread to address the issues before it escalates any further.

I wish to start off by saying that thread deletion was not our intention, rather archiving of the thread was, this has been a misunderstanding and I wish to apologize for it.

Onto the thread itself:

This server has been online for three years, and in those three years we've tried our best to add cool content to cheer up and challenge our players. Some content has been more immersive, some content was less immersive, especially in the earlier months of development.

For example, in the first month after release we still had a quest where you'd have to find a speaking turtle in a starting zone, which was absolutely non-lore friendly. Later on, as the team grew and we were able to actually write better quests, we removed this quest and added better, more immersive story lines and removed experimental content.

Nothing what's being implemented here is final / eternal. Server changes over time are natural and healthy, if we get better ideas for some features, we replace the old solution with a new one. However, for example, we added a lot of non-immersive teleports which we plan to remove in the future. Since we have real, established community, we cannot just take away what people use without giving something better in return: new flight paths, new boat / zeppelin routes, and more. Developing the replacement for lore-breaking content also takes time, but this is always on the table.

Taking away mounts which our players used for many years, would cause more harm to the community, than it'd do good to the game itself. So it is not possible. It's not a perfect feature, but it's a part of our history.

For the cloud: yes, it's possible to remove them, if a big part of the player base doesn't feel like it's a good idea to have it.

Drake. Obtaining a drake is quite hard, you gotta level up in Hardcore Mode to obtain this mount. The texture had been downgraded a lot to match Vanilla graphics, and I see no problems with this one.

I think it's safe to say that all lore-breaking and non-immersive content been added to the server on the earlier stages of development and we aim to slowly replace it with something better, once it's possible. Right now any additions we make undergo a lot of internal discussions and we try out best to now add something what contradicts with the spirit of the game.

As a team we feel that the vanity items and misc. in the turtle shop are fine as is and not immersion-breaking enough to warrant a deletion of said items, this seems to be supported by the majority of the community. However, the community will always have a say in these matters and the team will always keep them in mind.


Safe travels and stay safe on your journey.

[Lichenwitch]

Greetings! Server admin here.

I've restored this thread to address the issues before it escalates any further.

I wish to start off by saying that thread deletion was not our intention, rather archiving of the thread was, this has been a misunderstanding and I wish to apologize for it.

Onto the thread itself:

This server has been online for three years, and in those three years we've tried our best to add cool content to cheer up and challenge our players. Some content has been more immersive, some content was less immersive, especially in the earlier months of development.

For example, in the first month after release we still had a quest where you'd have to find a speaking turtle in a starting zone, which was absolutely non-lore friendly. Later on, as the team grew and we were able to actually write better quests, we removed this quest and added better, more immersive story lines and removed experimental content.

Nothing what's being implemented here is final / eternal. Server changes over time are natural and healthy, if we get better ideas for some features, we replace the old solution with a new one. However, for example, we added a lot of non-immersive teleports which we plan to remove in the future. Since we have real, established community, we cannot just take away what people use without giving something better in return: new flight paths, new boat / zeppelin routes, and more. Developing the replacement for lore-breaking content also takes time, but this is always on the table.

Taking away mounts which our players used for many years, would cause more harm to the community, than it'd do good to the game itself. So it is not possible. It's not a perfect feature, but it's a part of our history.

For the cloud: yes, it's possible to remove them, if a big part of the player base doesn't feel like it's a good idea to have it.

Drake. Obtaining a drake is quite hard, you gotta level up in Hardcore Mode to obtain this mount. The texture had been downgraded a lot to match Vanilla graphics, and I see no problems with this one.

I think it's safe to say that all lore-breaking and non-immersive content been added to the server on the earlier stages of development and we aim to slowly replace it with something better, once it's possible. Right now any additions we make undergo a lot of internal discussions and we try out best to now add something what contradicts with the spirit of the game.

As a team we feel that the vanity items and misc. in the turtle shop are fine as is and not immersion-breaking enough to warrant a deletion of said items, this seems to be supported by the majority of the community. However, the community will always have a say in these matters and the team will always keep them in mind.


Safe travels and stay safe on your journey.

Thank you Torta I am still dreaming of getting that Azure Drake mount so I personally would be crushed to see it removed. I appreciate all the time and thought you and the rest of the turtle team put into the custom items and features

[Dim]

+1 I agree with OP and would suggest the following:

Turtle Mount: Create a quest line at level 20 that rewards a player with a choice of a simple faction mount (horse for alliance, wolf for horde) or the turtle, our favorite mascot of the server. This will accomplish following: bring down the amount of turtle mounts seen in-game, create a sense of accomplishment for getting a mount at level 20 - adding to the feeling of progression.

Azure Drake: I have not come across many and have not seen how they work in-game (animations, sound, model/texture) to give an educated opinion on if its something that fits with WC3 lore and overall theme of the server. Instead of removing maybe they can be changed to Armored Gryphon/Wyvern or be given that option as a reward for completing HC.

Cloud Pets/Mount: I feel strongly with this one and suggest removal of cloud pet/mount if possible with a token refund to those that bought them. They are kinda silly and immersion breaking to some. Cow-level is not part of the lore :P

Item Shop: I understand the need for a shop to exist to pay costs of running a server and developing custom content so I would only suggest few tips or adjustments that I think could benefit the situation:

- Adjust the prices on few items (admin stuff like name changes as well as tabards are a bit expensive).
- Have sales more frequently and for specific items (undead skins/pets sale for Halloween coming up, as example).
- Implement a way to earn tokens in-game - Add repeatable quests that allows you to earn a small amount of tokens on weekly basis (10-20 for example) so that people may obtain select cosmetic items by investing time in-game and keep returning to play on Turtle WoW. This would encourage activity and allow the devs to say that shop items can eventually be earned by playing the game when advertising the server.

[Kazgrim]

Hi

I'm a dev for the server and a few of my creations do make their way into the turtle shop, such as the cosmetic skins. I would prefer we make these items available through quests and other ingame activities, and would be open to hearing any ideas players have for that to come true.

An example is I'm actually working on some new stuff that will be rewarded and unlocked via gaining rep w/ new factions, such as the Bloodsail Buccaneers.

[Valadorn]

What I understand of your post, is that " You dont like it so nobody should be able to use it or have it " and that " Theres shouldnt be a Real Money shop since Developers dont need to eat anyway ". Turtle is special cuz its not Vanilla, if you want a Vanilla server, this isnt the one ure looking for, personally the more things they add the better. Also you are not forced to use them, nobody is. But let the people that enjoy them have their fun.

Also the Turtle Mount only gives 20% speed at lvl 40, nowhere near 60%, I dont understand how that makes the Normal mount obselete. Did you guys even play on the server ? Also, if someone has bigger bags then you, how does that Hurt you ? On another note, you can level a character with the Glyph of the Turtle and get those Coins yourself. I really dont understand the problem.

[Jombo]

Valadorn, you didn't really read our posts at all. We said exactly that we love much of what Turtle Wow is. We are only critical of a few specific issues. Finally, we are all different people and don't have exactly the same opinions and ideas.

@Torta: thank you for this comment. Still, the turtle mount is actually the biggest issue. I'm not at all some vanilla puritan, and I would like something like what Dim suggested with one difference. Make it a pony and a ram, a young wolf and raptor - all scaled down (perhaps even with a different skin if possible, but that requires more work of course) the speed should then be +25%. Thus the lvl 40 riding skill would still be worth it. Also this would make the riding skill more meaningful in terms of following the apprentice --> journeyman --> expert system
25% 40% and 100%. Artisan could then be added as something endgame if you want to expand on that further down the line, though it is obviously another discussion.

[Proudwell]

Hi

I'm a dev for the server and a few of my creations do make their way into the turtle shop, such as the cosmetic skins. I would prefer we make these items available through quests and other ingame activities, and would be open to hearing any ideas players have for that to come true.

An example is I'm actually working on some new stuff that will be rewarded and unlocked via gaining rep w/ new factions, such as the Bloodsail Buccaneers.

That blood elf skin could be a part of Outland when it releases. I remember reading that blood elves might be found when Outland swings around, and it could be introduced by a high elf only quest. Kael's Blood Elves would also make for an interesting faction to unlock it through. Repatriation, since I don't think high elves are exiles by this point?

[Lichenwitch]

Valadorn, you didn't really read our posts at all. We said exactly that we love much of what Turtle Wow is. We are only critical of a few specific issues. Finally, we are all different people and don't have exactly the same opinions and ideas.

@Torta: thank you for this comment. Still, the turtle mount is actually the biggest issue. I'm not at all some vanilla puritan, and I would like something like what Dim suggested with one difference. Make it a pony and a ram, a young wolf and raptor - all scaled down (perhaps even with a different skin if possible, but that requires more work of course) the speed should then be +25%. Thus the lvl 40 riding skill would still be worth it. Also this would make the riding skill more meaningful in terms of following the apprentice --> journeyman --> expert system
25% 40% and 100%. Artisan could then be added as something endgame if you want to expand on that further down the line, though it is obviously another discussion.

I don't know if you are confused but the speed mechanic for the Turtle mount is perfect just the way it is as it is always half of your level, ergo at level 60 you only get 30% speed from it. Bumping it up to 25% would actually make it way too powerful for lower levels as that is almost it's max speed right from the beginning. Also, your post literally does read that just because you don't enjoy something, others shouldn't have it as well...

Besides all of those points, I see no issue in letting new players choose between an option of Ram/Wolf or the Turtle at level 5 as long as the speed mechanics stay the same, as it would diversify the game visually and keep in faction themes more for those who desire that.

[Lahire]

Yes the speed scaling is perfect the way it is. Three reasons to that :
1. the free mount is not quick enough to make the 90 gold ride skill irrelevant. You feel the speed upgrade when you buy it, you want to buy it. The progression is not broken. 25% would clearly lessen this feeling of character progression.

2. the mount is not quick enough to trivialize the world exploration for low level characters. 25% would trivialize travel. But traveling which feels dangerous/adventurous is a main design goal of vanilla's design, to make the world feel like a world. A change should not go against one of the original main design goals.

3. the slow turtle is thematic with the server's brand. The tag line is "slow and steady", not "quick and comfy". Coherent flavour is important if you want to make a game experience good.

I think the free mount should stay a turtle. No wolf at lvl 5. Because, again, it is coherent with the theme of the server. I think people don't value enough esthetic and coherent themes : a game is good also because you feel that all its components make together a logical and whole experience. The free turtle is wholesome and coherent, while a free wolf would be off tone.

[Adelaidde]

Please take into consideration that GM's put their hearts and all their free time into this server, always working on it, putting new things out for... free?! I would think that every person with a little empathy towards the GM's would understand that they want to profit a little out of their work. Look around in this world... there are thousands of so called "artists" that close their eyes and dump paint on a canvas and sell it for millions of dollars while it took them less than hours to finish their "art". No one criticises them because it's art... Meanwhile the server developers are expected to work for free and meet everyone's expectations, to listen to everyone's suggestion, criticism (and often whining...).

And maybe you'd think that the shop items are a bit overpriced, but there are literal 50% sales every so often and during that time the items are more accessible for everyone. During a sale i purchased the bags and repair bot that helps me on a daily basis. And it not only profits me, since everyone around me in my faction can repair, buy reagents and it overall makes wow easier by saving you a LOT of time because you don't need to run to vendors.

And another thing: why does it hurt you if everyone gets a mount that gets faster by every level? Why does it hurt if you get to your location 10 minutes earlier? And if it's really ruining your experience just don't use it. No need to ruin everyone's fun just because you don't enjoy it. The thing that convinced me to play on this server was in fact the Turtle mount and the custom content. And i'd like to think many other people came for the same reason, because we're all bored of pure vanilla that's been out for almost 2 decades.

Thanks for reading my rant. Have a nice one.
-Adelaidde

[Dim]

Again, Im not for taking things away but instead make slight adjustment that is in spirit of the server and strikes balance between lore, progression and gameplay. I dont want to see Turtle mount removed entirely but instead be offered as a reward in a cool quest along with other options (simple horse/wolf, etc) for those that want that. I believe Shamans and Druids get their Travel form at level 20 so having a quest to obtain a mount around that level would make sense from progression stand point (20 low level mount > 40 mid level mount > 60 epic mount) instead of everybody automatically gets a turtle at low level.

Azure Drake are fairly rare as only few dozen of people make it to 60 as a HC toon so they do not disrupt the atmosphere. If the faction flying mounts (gryphon/wyvern) are implemented I'd make those the HC reward and make the drake a reward for HC/Turtle mode as the ultimate top prize.

The only thing that should be removed are the silly cloud mounts and cloud pets. That was part of April Fools joke but ended up as an item in the shop, why? It just looks ridiculous and immersion breaking when encountered in the world (dark night duskwood -_- ) while taking away from the atmosphere.

Im not against the shop, its a way to pay for servers and development but I also agree with Kazgrim about making some of that content available through in-game activities. I do think prices do need to be adjusted for some items too, it will actually make people consider buying them if they are not as expensive (faction/race/name changes and tabards for example not the big stuff like bags/bank) Having sales is a great idea which already happens, so having sales more often and for specific items that relate to certain seasons/holidays is even better.

[Gheor]

Just to clear the air the "cloud" pets I was referring to were the Cloud Serpent Drakes pets.

[Tarluk]

I honestly couldn't give a damn about the clouds, if people like em that's fine by me.

The Riding Turtle's awesome and nothing you say can convince me otherwise.

The only thing I find weird about the Azure Drake (and other mounts on the store that started off as flying mounts like the Hippogryphs and Flying Machine) is that they just do not work well as ground mounts, they look really wonky. I think it'd be nice if having one of them in your bag allowed them to serve as a flight path skin, so when you fly off from Stormwind you'll be riding on an armored hippogryph or a dragon instead of a gryphon.

[Jimmicz]

What I understand of your post, is that " You dont like it so nobody should be able to use it or have it " and that " Theres shouldnt be a Real Money shop since Developers dont need to eat anyway ". Turtle is special cuz its not Vanilla, if you want a Vanilla server, this isnt the one ure looking for, personally the more things they add the better. Also you are not forced to use them, nobody is. But let the people that enjoy them have their fun.

Also the Turtle Mount only gives 20% speed at lvl 40, nowhere near 60%, I dont understand how that makes the Normal mount obselete. Did you guys even play on the server ? Also, if someone has bigger bags then you, how does that Hurt you ? On another note, you can level a character with the Glyph of the Turtle and get those Coins yourself. I really dont understand the problem.

Me personally I would rather pay a sub to play here rather than to have an option to buy some stuff I really don't need to help the server out... The cash shop is just meeh

[Lahire]

The drake is too big imo ; it would look better if it was a tiny drake you ride like a pony.

[Valadorn]

What I understand of your post, is that " You dont like it so nobody should be able to use it or have it " and that " Theres shouldnt be a Real Money shop since Developers dont need to eat anyway ". Turtle is special cuz its not Vanilla, if you want a Vanilla server, this isnt the one ure looking for, personally the more things they add the better. Also you are not forced to use them, nobody is. But let the people that enjoy them have their fun.

Also the Turtle Mount only gives 20% speed at lvl 40, nowhere near 60%, I dont understand how that makes the Normal mount obselete. Did you guys even play on the server ? Also, if someone has bigger bags then you, how does that Hurt you ? On another note, you can level a character with the Glyph of the Turtle and get those Coins yourself. I really dont understand the problem.

Me personally I would rather pay a sub to play here rather than to have an option to buy some stuff I really don't need to help the server out... The cash shop is just meeh

As a side note, you can pay monthly and never spend the coins, nobody is forcing you, thats just stuff you can choose to get, if you want.

[Admiralawesome]

What I understand of your post, is that " You dont like it so nobody should be able to use it or have it " and that " Theres shouldnt be a Real Money shop since Developers dont need to eat anyway ". Turtle is special cuz its not Vanilla, if you want a Vanilla server, this isnt the one ure looking for, personally the more things they add the better. Also you are not forced to use them, nobody is. But let the people that enjoy them have their fun.

Also the Turtle Mount only gives 20% speed at lvl 40, nowhere near 60%, I dont understand how that makes the Normal mount obselete. Did you guys even play on the server ? Also, if someone has bigger bags then you, how does that Hurt you ? On another note, you can level a character with the Glyph of the Turtle and get those Coins yourself. I really dont understand the problem.

Me personally I would rather pay a sub to play here rather than to have an option to buy some stuff I really don't need to help the server out... The cash shop is just meeh

As a side note, you can pay monthly and never spend the coins, nobody is forcing you, thats just stuff you can choose to get, if you want.

Exactly. Or don't note your account name at all, like donate anonymously.
Also I don't get the criticism in this thread, you don't even see most of the stuff mentioned in this thread every day

[Merikkinon]

I really wonder how many people who are against the cash shop, or feel so strongly about the mounts and wanting a more 'authentic' Vanilla experience are playing hardcore mode, entirely or at least primarily.

How many of ya?