Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

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Zvyrhol
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Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Zvyrhol » Thu Jan 30, 2025 4:41 pm



This post relies on bug report submitted some time ago: https://turtle-wow.org/bug-report?id=9450.
I would be grateful if you upvote this issue there.

Sometimes battlegrounds start with weird balance like 1 vs 15 in Arathi Basin or 1 vs 9 in Warsong Gulch.
Though it might be seemed as a bug, there is interesting theory that in fact games like these don't happen because of a bug but because of intentional activity of organised groups.

Background of the problem:

Warsong Gulch and Arathi Basin are specific battlegrounds because you can create a raid group and sign up everyone in this raid for one of these battlegrounds so everyone from your raid will join at the same time. In theory this mechanic might be the source of ghost queue bug and intentional abuse from some premade PvP groups to level PvP rank efficiently.

How to reproduce (as an organised PvP group):
  • 1. Create Raid Group 1 that consist of real PvP premade of Faction X.
  • 2. Create Raid Group 2 that consist of alts of the same PvP players from Raid Group 1 of Faction Y (on alt accounts).
  • 3. When both Raid Groups are ready, the leaders of both groups join their group to selected battleground at the same time.
  • 4a. With some luck, the server queue creates new battleground match with Raid Group 1 and Raid Group 2 as main participants.
  • 5a. Everyone from Raid Group 1 enters the battleground while everyone from Raid Group 2 intentionaly doesn't enter.
  • 6a. Raid Group 1 will have significant advantage in that match and will get free honor abusing the system.
  • 4b. With no luck (for organised group), the Raid Group 2 won't face Raid Group 1 but some random players instead.
  • 5b. The Raid Group 2 doesn't join the game and random players will have easy PvP game - that's the case in which most random people experienced this "ghost queue bug".

Facts that support this theory:
  • This is possible in the game as long as PvP premade has lvl 60 alts of enemy faction on alt accounts.
  • It's very unlikely that the server was coded that bad to allow 1 vs 15 situations.
  • It's very unlikely for random people from one faction to mass decline - mathematically very unlikely.
  • This method provides massive honor advantage for PvP rankers and makes their honor farming more efficient which is very important in the current PvP ranking system.
  • From what I've seen, most of these 1 vs 10 screenshots were taken in Arathi Basin, some of them were taken in Warsong Gulch too. However, Alterac Valley that doesn't support joining as raid groups making this method impossible there. In fact this issue was never recorded there. There is no problem in Blood Ring because the game won't start if it isn't 3 vs 3. The issue was never recorded in Sunnyglade Valley.

This is only theory so the team should investigate the issue, maybe look at the logs to check if these groups really abused the queue system this way.
You might think that the best solution would be placing longer deserter debuff on characters that decline joining the battleground but it's bad solution - Raid Group of alts could join the game against Raid Group 1 and the result will be the same since their alts will be afk and the game would likely finish within 3 minutes if it's Arathi Basin.

The only solution would be monitoring such abusive activities through server logs and punish the alts that cause ghost games to start. Without the alts, organised PvP groups won't have easy honor farm making PvP ranking more fair for casual PvP enthusiasts.

Don't forget to upvote the issue here: https://turtle-wow.org/bug-report?id=9450
Last edited by Zvyrhol on Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

amanagor
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by amanagor » Thu Jan 30, 2025 4:57 pm

all accounts involved should be perma banned.

Frantsel
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Frantsel » Thu Jan 30, 2025 5:04 pm

Thanks for pointing that out!

This happened to me alot and we lost most bgs being in that situation its very hard to pull it arround.

I agree: Permaban those fuckers!

Laminae
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Laminae » Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:42 am

at least 4 people from the screenshot did not abuse this, because I am one of these pvp players
-besides, many of us played there not for rank but for fun in pvp
-in addition, raid groups are registered to get a leader and be able to form groups and put tags

It’s also likely that the author of the post is not aware that this failure occurred after a patch to change queues and this kind of bg at that time made up the majority(until then, playing BG when the queue was approaching, it was possible to transfer to another)
Abuses that began suddenly and had not previously taken place are clearly unconvincing.

the author also has no idea about the dodgepremade channel, which was popular at one time, which was not the cause of this problem but aggravated it to a clear state

The possibility of a large number of players entering the battlefield (42 av )also speaks in favor of a hardware failure.
Please try to look at the causes of the disease and not the symptoms.
The root cause of the problem lies in the attitude towards pvp by the server administration

considering that the screenshot shows our premade (4 people) using elementary logic, we can clarify the fact that if we had used the above technique, we would not have done any topics on the forum, but would have continued to do so quietly. the chance that in addition to us, another half-premade got behind the horde using this is simply ridiculous (everyone who runs a group for the horde knows how long they have to wait)
, accordingly, there is no one present in the screenshot to use the double registration technique, which means that the reason for the failure lies again not there
P.S.
And by the way, I don't have a character for the alliance.

Laminae
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Laminae » Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:06 am

Facts that support this theory:

This is possible in the game as long as PvP premade has lvl 60 alts of enemy faction on alt accounts.(This is not a fact, but a premise.)

It's very unlikely that the server was coded that bad to allow 1 vs 15 situations. (Nevertheless, the wsg 15+ ppl and av43 are quite normal.)

It's very unlikely for random people from one faction to mass decline - mathematically very unlikely. (read up about dodgepremade)

This method provides massive honor advantage for PvP rankers and makes their honor farming more efficient which is very important in the current PvP ranking system.
(This is a prerequisite for the formation of a cause, not a fact.)

From what I've seen, most of these 1 vs 10 screenshots were taken in Arathi Basin, some of them were taken in Warsong Gulch too. However, Alterac Valley that doesn't support joining as raid groups making this method impossible there. In fact this issue was never recorded there. There is no problem in Blood Ring because the game won't start if it isn't 3 vs 3. The issue was never recorded in Sunnyglade Valley.
(This is again an indirect proof, not a fact.
1) there are no screenshots on Sunny glade Valley because this BG happens as often as the opportunity to see a comet with your own eyes
2) the difference is less visible on av due to the large number of players, but there are often more than 40 per team.
3) wsg and ab are more popular with regular pvp players, that's why they complain, and that's why they're visible.)

In the end, I wanted to add that the problem of registering for BG from multiple accounts exists, as were the premades of the alliance and the hordes dodging each other, but this is only a small part of the real PVP problems.

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Zvyrhol
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Zvyrhol » Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:17 am

Laminae wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:42 am at least 4 people from the screenshot did not abuse this, because I am one of these pvp players
-besides, many of us played there not for rank but for fun in pvp
-in addition, raid groups are registered to get a leader and be able to form groups and put tags
This post and bug report wasn't aimed at your small premade but rather other premade that does it intentionally. Sorry for using your names on screenshot - I used first screenshot of queue bug I found on discord. I edited post so it contains my video now instead. This screenshot wasn't intended to show that any of you abuse the bug but to ilustrate how the issue looks like. Also, I think everyone on the screenshot is innocent because this issue happens to random people as I said in the main post.
Laminae wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:42 am It’s also likely that the author of the post is not aware that this failure occurred after a patch to change queues and this kind of bg at that time made up the majority(until then, playing BG when the queue was approaching, it was possible to transfer to another)
Abuses that began suddenly and had not previously taken place are clearly unconvincing.
I'm aware but I haven't said that. Though some friends told me the bug has existed before this change but wasn't that common. I came across empty games maybe a few times, indeed all of them happened after small queue fix.
Laminae wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:42 am the author also has no idea about the dodgepremade channel, which was popular at one time, which was not the cause of this problem but aggravated it to a clear state
I admit I still have no idea what a dodgepremade channel is. Can you explain, please?
Laminae wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:42 am The possibility of a large number of players entering the battlefield (42 av )also speaks in favor of a hardware failure.
Please try to look at the causes of the disease and not the symptoms.
The root cause of the problem lies in the attitude towards pvp by the server administration
In my opinion these 2 issues are separate things. I can imagine this can be still exploited even if devs fix max number of players joining the battleground.
Laminae wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:42 am considering that the screenshot shows our premade (4 people) using elementary logic, we can clarify the fact that if we had used the above technique, we would not have done any topics on the forum, but would have continued to do so quietly. the chance that in addition to us, another half-premade got behind the horde using this is simply ridiculous (everyone who runs a group for the horde knows how long they have to wait)
, accordingly, there is no one present in the screenshot to use the double registration technique, which means that the reason for the failure lies again not there
P.S.
And by the way, I don't have a character for the alliance.
Again, the screnshot was to show random people experiencing the bug.
Laminae wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:06 am This is possible in the game as long as PvP premade has lvl 60 alts of enemy faction on alt accounts.(This is not a fact, but a premise.)
It's a fact. If it's not a fact, you can prove me I'm wrong. What stops some groups to exploit the queue with their alts this way?
Laminae wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:06 am It's very unlikely for random people from one faction to mass decline - mathematically very unlikely. (read up about dodgepremade)
If Google doesn't know what is dodgepremade, then I have no idea where I can read about it. In that statement I meant random people who solo queue won't mass decline because it mathematically happens very rarely. If premade that consists of 15 players declines joining AB, they break the match - enemy team will face empty game.
Laminae wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:06 am From what I've seen, most of these 1 vs 10 screenshots were taken in Arathi Basin, some of them were taken in Warsong Gulch too. However, Alterac Valley that doesn't support joining as raid groups making this method impossible there. In fact this issue was never recorded there. There is no problem in Blood Ring because the game won't start if it isn't 3 vs 3. The issue was never recorded in Sunnyglade Valley.
(This is again an indirect proof, not a fact.
1) there are no screenshots on Sunny glade Valley because this BG happens as often as the opportunity to see a comet with your own eyes
2) the difference is less visible on av due to the large number of players, but there are often more than 40 per team.
3) wsg and ab are more popular with regular pvp players, that's why they complain, and that's why they're visible.)
Personally I think premades don't do it on Sunnyglade because it's bad honor/hour compared to AB or WSG. And the main goal of premades who potentially exploit this system is to rank as efficiently as possible.
This issue DOESN'T exist in AV. This issue is not about breaking the limit of players in the team. It's about ghost games. These are 2 separate problems. Ghost games like 20 vs 5 don't happen in AV because premades can't mass decline in one moment - everyone must solo queue to decline.

Shockru
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Shockru » Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:20 am

Hello!
Firstly, this screenshot is taken from the topic:
"https://turtle-wow.org/bug-report?id=3239"
There I posted this screenshot simply to draw the attention of the administration to the incorrect operation of queues on the battlefield.
Secondly, since I and similar players independently raised this issue and participated in its discussion, then your proposal: "to groundlessly punish the participants of this screenshot."
I consider it incorrect.

In simple terms, what the hell are you talking about

basednoob
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by basednoob » Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:56 am

What if you could see who else is queuing then it would be pretty easy to report when players are consistently queuing but not actually joining the bg. and as a side bonus, more players can join the queue if they see that other players are too. Or maybe there is a big downside to this? maybe show who should have joined the bg but didn't accept yet.

amanagor
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by amanagor » Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:44 pm

basednoob wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:56 am What if you could see who else is queuing then it would be pretty easy to report when players are consistently queuing but not actually joining the bg. and as a side bonus, more players can join the queue if they see that other players are too. Or maybe there is a big downside to this? maybe show who should have joined the bg but didn't accept yet.
and force pugs to play against premades? how about adress the actual issue and ban premades?

Laminae
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Laminae » Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:58 pm

dodge premade channel in the game, which was created by horde players raising the rank in which each participant who saw the prime wrote the bg number
and those whose turn was approaching the wrong one did not enter
everything you wrote in your theory can really exist,
but is not the root cause of skewed bg
Otherwise, where did this screenshot come from if it’s not “mafia” on it.
(in other words, if the theory is correct then there is another reason)
in my opinion, the reason for such bg is really primades, any.
Chinese premade with statistics (month of victories vs one loose) spoils pvp no less than "premade mafia"
Let's imagine that we really caught "this mafia" will Bg 15 vs 2 disappear?
no, because as a selected heavily dressed premade after 2-5 wins
or it will force the conflict faction to put up its own or the players will simply stop entering the battleground (which I have witnessed more than once on both sides)

as a result, the question arises whether it is worth the effort to support this theory if there cannot be positive results from such consideration of the issue

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Ataika
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Ataika » Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:51 pm

Laminae wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:58 pm dodge premade channel in the game, which was created by horde players raising the rank in which each participant who saw the prime wrote the bg number
and those whose turn was approaching the wrong one did not enter
everything you wrote in your theory can really exist,
but is not the root cause of skewed bg
Otherwise, where did this screenshot come from if it’s not “mafia” on it.
(in other words, if the theory is correct then there is another reason)
in my opinion, the reason for such bg is really primades, any.
Chinese premade with statistics (month of victories vs one loose) spoils pvp no less than "premade mafia"
Let's imagine that we really caught "this mafia" will Bg 15 vs 2 disappear?
no, because as a selected heavily dressed premade after 2-5 wins
or it will force the conflict faction to put up its own or the players will simply stop entering the battleground (which I have witnessed more than once on both sides)

as a result, the question arises whether it is worth the effort to support this theory if there cannot be positive results from such consideration of the issue
It takes 2 mintes to look into logs and check bg refusal/miss statistic and ban these fagots who do it contstrantly. Since the default player rarely does this stasitic will be so clear there is a zero chance for ban mistake. The main question is - will be turtle devs bothered or not. I guess you know the answer.

Frantsel
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Frantsel » Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:37 pm

Ataika wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:51 pm It takes 2 mintes to look into logs and check bg refusal/miss statistic and ban these fagots who do it contstrantly. Since the default player rarely does this stasitic will be so clear there is a zero chance for ban mistake. The main question is - will be turtle devs bothered or not. I guess you know the answer.
100%.

amanagor
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by amanagor » Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:04 pm

Frantsel wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:37 pm
Ataika wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:51 pm It takes 2 mintes to look into logs and check bg refusal/miss statistic and ban these fagots who do it contstrantly. Since the default player rarely does this stasitic will be so clear there is a zero chance for ban mistake. The main question is - will be turtle devs bothered or not. I guess you know the answer.
100%.
That doesnt change the fact that it is perfectly legitimate for a single player to not want to be matched up with other pugs against a coordinated team on voice. To punish players that simply want a fair fight would be absurd. The underlying problem isnt queue dodgers, its premades..

Xudo
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Xudo » Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:36 pm

In some tank-related game with 15x15 matches, max number of people in organized group is 3.
There is standalone matchups with higher amount of queued people, but matches there are ranked and limited by time.

There are a lot of good innovations in modern games which make pvp better.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.

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Ataika
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Ataika » Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:40 pm

amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:04 pm
Frantsel wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:37 pm
Ataika wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:51 pm It takes 2 mintes to look into logs and check bg refusal/miss statistic and ban these fagots who do it contstrantly. Since the default player rarely does this stasitic will be so clear there is a zero chance for ban mistake. The main question is - will be turtle devs bothered or not. I guess you know the answer.
100%.
That doesnt change the fact that it is perfectly legitimate for a single player to not want to be matched up with other pugs against a coordinated team on voice. To punish players that simply want a fair fight would be absurd. The underlying problem isnt queue dodgers, its premades..
You are unable to understand whom u gonna face when the que pops.
Unlike twinked premade that knows it due to pop happened in the same time.
They dont have to block the que, just to prolong to 4/1 bases or 2/0 flags when the game is nearly done and fresh joined players forfeit to resist nearly lost game
the difference is less visible on av due to the large number of players, but there are often more than 40 per team
av is always capped at 80 unlike wsg and ab bugged counter
if alliance has 43 that means horde has 37 cap

amanagor
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by amanagor » Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:50 pm

Ataika wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:40 pm
amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:04 pm
Frantsel wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:37 pm

100%.
That doesnt change the fact that it is perfectly legitimate for a single player to not want to be matched up with other pugs against a coordinated team on voice. To punish players that simply want a fair fight would be absurd. The underlying problem isnt queue dodgers, its premades..
You are unable to understand whom u gonna face when the que pops.
Unlike twinked premade that knows it due to pop happened in the same time.
They dont have to block the que, just to prolong to 4/1 bases or 2/0 flags when the game is nearly done and fresh joined players forfeit to resist nearly lost game
the difference is less visible on av due to the large number of players, but there are often more than 40 per team
av is always capped at 80 unlike wsg and ab bugged counter
if alliance has 43 that means horde has 37 cap
If you know who is in the premade, its quite easy to add them to your friends list and if they are not in a bg while you are in q and suddenly in one after your queue pops to not join. Also your idea of forfeiting doesnt change the fact that premades are wasting everyones time. Against premade, game is already lost before the game even starts. To make it fair, the only solution is to ban premades.

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Ataika
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Ataika » Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:42 pm

amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:50 pm
Ataika wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:40 pm
amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:04 pm
That doesnt change the fact that it is perfectly legitimate for a single player to not want to be matched up with other pugs against a coordinated team on voice. To punish players that simply want a fair fight would be absurd. The underlying problem isnt queue dodgers, its premades..
You are unable to understand whom u gonna face when the que pops.
Unlike twinked premade that knows it due to pop happened in the same time.
They dont have to block the que, just to prolong to 4/1 bases or 2/0 flags when the game is nearly done and fresh joined players forfeit to resist nearly lost game
the difference is less visible on av due to the large number of players, but there are often more than 40 per team
av is always capped at 80 unlike wsg and ab bugged counter
if alliance has 43 that means horde has 37 cap
If you know who is in the premade, its quite easy to add them to your friends list and if they are not in a bg while you are in q and suddenly in one after your queue pops to not join. Also your idea of forfeiting doesnt change the fact that premades are wasting everyones time. Against premade, game is already lost before the game even starts. To make it fair, the only solution is to ban premades.
I agree that premades included in pug que are ruining the pvp scene but disabling that gonna make a huge "wai u dont allow me to pley with frents" shitstorm
Last edited by Ataika on Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

amanagor
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by amanagor » Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:47 pm

Ataika wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:42 pm
amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:50 pm
Ataika wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:40 pm

You are unable to understand whom u gonna face when the que pops.
Unlike twinked premade that knows it due to pop happened in the same time.
They dont have to block the que, just to prolong to 4/1 bases or 2/0 flags when the game is nearly done and fresh joined players forfeit to resist nearly lost game


av is always capped at 80 unlike wsg and ab bugged counter
if alliance has 43 that means horde has 37 cap
If you know who is in the premade, its quite easy to add them to your friends list and if they are not in a bg while you are in q and suddenly in one after your queue pops to not join. Also your idea of forfeiting doesnt change the fact that premades are wasting everyones time. Against premade, game is already lost before the game even starts. To make it fair, the only solution is to ban premades.
I agree that premades inclused in pug que are ruining the pvp scene but disabling that gonna make a huged "wai u dont allow me to pley with freeents" shitstorm
Let premades q against premades only and implement a wargames system like classic.

Silhouette
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Silhouette » Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:06 pm

I don't think Turtle WoW has a specific development team for PvP, otherwise we would see many more things being done whether in terms of hotfix or additional content.

Right now, it is radio silence for Karazhan 40 which should have come in December 2024, it is instead delayed without communication. Since PvE is the main focus of Twow and PvP isn't their specialty, I'd be surprised to see anything done toward PvP anytime soon and it's been like that for months and even worsened by CC2.

Good news is... a serious Vanilla+ competitor is on its way and could prompt Twow into doing better, which is a good thing assuming being the only one Vanilla+ King can lead to some complacency and greed.

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Zvyrhol
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Zvyrhol » Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:20 pm

amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:47 pm Let premades q against premades only and implement a wargames system like classic.
The first idea is detached from reality because of small PvP playerbase here. It might work in Classic but not on Turtle. Implementing this on Turtle would practically remove joining as premades.

amanagor
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by amanagor » Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:07 pm

Zvyrhol wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:20 pm
amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:47 pm Let premades q against premades only and implement a wargames system like classic.
The first idea is detached from reality because of small PvP playerbase here. It might work in Classic but not on Turtle. Implementing this on Turtle would practically remove joining as premades.
not having any premades at all is still better than having them face pugs all day. if there indeed isnt the playerbase to support premade vs premade, then it clearly means the premade population is small and so it doesnt make sence to cater to them.

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Zvyrhol
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Zvyrhol » Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:28 pm

amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:07 pm not having any premades at all is still better than having them face pugs all day. if there indeed isnt the playerbase to support premade vs premade, then it clearly means the premade population is small and so it doesnt make sence to cater to them.
There is not enough players to have full premade vs premade game in AB for example. I can imagine it would lead to unbalanced games like 10 vs 15 because of Turtle community is too small.

amanagor
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by amanagor » Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:44 pm

Zvyrhol wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:28 pm
amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:07 pm not having any premades at all is still better than having them face pugs all day. if there indeed isnt the playerbase to support premade vs premade, then it clearly means the premade population is small and so it doesnt make sence to cater to them.
There is not enough players to have full premade vs premade game in AB for example. I can imagine it would lead to unbalanced games like 10 vs 15 because of Turtle community is too small.
Since when do people who play premades care about balanced games?

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Ataika
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Ataika » Sun Feb 02, 2025 10:20 am

Zvyrhol wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:28 pm
amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:07 pm not having any premades at all is still better than having them face pugs all day. if there indeed isnt the playerbase to support premade vs premade, then it clearly means the premade population is small and so it doesnt make sence to cater to them.
There is not enough players to have full premade vs premade game in AB for example. I can imagine it would lead to unbalanced games like 10 vs 15 because of Turtle community is too small.
Premades dont want to play against other premades, all they want is to stomp pugs.
So its pretty eqasy to disable premades and skip these crying ~15 people, because on the opposite side 100+ solo players would be happy.

Prolly leave group que for 2-3 people max

Laminae
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Laminae » Tue Feb 04, 2025 1:04 am

Zvyrhol wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:28 pm
amanagor wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:07 pm not having any premades at all is still better than having them face pugs all day. if there indeed isnt the playerbase to support premade vs premade, then it clearly means the premade population is small and so it doesnt make sence to cater to them.
There is not enough players to have full premade vs premade game in AB for example. I can imagine it would lead to unbalanced games like 10 vs 15 because of Turtle community is too small.
and there are few players, because PVP on the server is bad. looping circle

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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Nicko77 » Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:39 am

I knew that something fishy was happening,I tried for weeks to grind for ranks and rep as a fresh 60 horde player and found myself constantly enter in AB and WSG against ally premades and on top of that even always start outnumbered.
The PVP sistuation on this server is beyond bad,it's just a playground for some elite players that like easy wins between raids,I don't know why a server so popular and so big doesn't care to have a fully complete experience.
I kept waiting and hoping to come back and play again here but this thread really made me lose any interest,especially seeing players that try to negate the evidence.

Grizb37
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Grizb37 » Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:23 pm

Nicko77 wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:39 am I knew that something fishy was happening,I tried for weeks to grind for ranks and rep as a fresh 60 horde player and found myself constantly enter in AB and WSG against ally premades and on top of that even always start outnumbered.
The PVP sistuation on this server is beyond bad,it's just a playground for some elite players that like easy wins between raids,I don't know why a server so popular and so big doesn't care to have a fully complete experience.
I kept waiting and hoping to come back and play again here but this thread really made me lose any interest,especially seeing players that try to negate the evidence.
Don't play pvp here anymore, I got sick of waiting 2 years for them to fix to lobsided 18v14 matches in AB and CC2 is hot garbage, most classes one shotting especially arcane mages damage, and the missiles clipping through all the scenery. Holy paladins healing to full with just 1 holy strike, don't even need to cast now.
Honestly it's really fucking bad, don't know how anyone enjoys pvp here tbh unless they play one of the broken ass classes mentioned above.

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Nicko77
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Nicko77 » Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:48 pm

Grizb37 wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:23 pm
Nicko77 wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:39 am I knew that something fishy was happening,I tried for weeks to grind for ranks and rep as a fresh 60 horde player and found myself constantly enter in AB and WSG against ally premades and on top of that even always start outnumbered.
The PVP sistuation on this server is beyond bad,it's just a playground for some elite players that like easy wins between raids,I don't know why a server so popular and so big doesn't care to have a fully complete experience.
I kept waiting and hoping to come back and play again here but this thread really made me lose any interest,especially seeing players that try to negate the evidence.
Don't play pvp here anymore, I got sick of waiting 2 years for them to fix to lobsided 18v14 matches in AB and CC2 is hot garbage, most classes one shotting especially arcane mages damage, and the missiles clipping through all the scenery. Holy paladins healing to full with just 1 holy strike, don't even need to cast now.
Honestly it's really fucking bad, don't know how anyone enjoys pvp here tbh unless they play one of the broken ass classes mentioned above.
PVP here still exists because of new players like me not knowing how it works,then after few weeks of this shit they realize that if they want to do PVP they have two choices,one is joining a big raiding guild and leech PVE equip the other is quit and search another server.
I think that at this point TWOW is just a money machine for the owners,they had the luck of being the first that nailed the "vanilla +" concept and so they are taking advantage of that,sadly they don't have any true competition I don't expect any changes,also because I can see a lot of people getting mad about the idea of PVP gear on par with the PVE raid one and acquired with currency and without rank.

Snipesta
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Snipesta » Thu Feb 06, 2025 3:52 pm

Nicko77 wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:48 pm
Grizb37 wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:23 pm
Nicko77 wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:39 am I knew that something fishy was happening,I tried for weeks to grind for ranks and rep as a fresh 60 horde player and found myself constantly enter in AB and WSG against ally premades and on top of that even always start outnumbered.
The PVP sistuation on this server is beyond bad,it's just a playground for some elite players that like easy wins between raids,I don't know why a server so popular and so big doesn't care to have a fully complete experience.
I kept waiting and hoping to come back and play again here but this thread really made me lose any interest,especially seeing players that try to negate the evidence.
Don't play pvp here anymore, I got sick of waiting 2 years for them to fix to lobsided 18v14 matches in AB and CC2 is hot garbage, most classes one shotting especially arcane mages damage, and the missiles clipping through all the scenery. Holy paladins healing to full with just 1 holy strike, don't even need to cast now.
Honestly it's really fucking bad, don't know how anyone enjoys pvp here tbh unless they play one of the broken ass classes mentioned above.
PVP here still exists because of new players like me not knowing how it works,then after few weeks of this shit they realize that if they want to do PVP they have two choices,one is joining a big raiding guild and leech PVE equip the other is quit and search another server.
I think that at this point TWOW is just a money machine for the owners,they had the luck of being the first that nailed the "vanilla +" concept and so they are taking advantage of that,sadly they don't have any true competition I don't expect any changes,also because I can see a lot of people getting mad about the idea of PVP gear on par with the PVE raid one and acquired with currency and without rank.
Eh, I beg to differ TWOW owners are a small crew of dedicated people who love the game and continue to do so and for the fact the server is free, and doesn't incentivise you to buy their merch only if you feel like it. I don't see any money makers here...

Silhouette
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Silhouette » Thu Feb 06, 2025 5:17 pm

Snipesta wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 3:52 pm Eh, I beg to differ TWOW owners are a small crew of dedicated people who love the game and continue to do so and for the fact the server is free, and doesn't incentivise you to buy their merch only if you feel like it. I don't see any money makers here...
Anybody playing WoW know how incredibly useful it is to play with 36 slots bags, portable bank, repair bot, auction house, anvil, stablemaster, 30 minutes heartstone, double/triple specialisation tool (the latter can be bought for hundreds of gold, still significant savings) etc.
I don't know how it's not incentivizing people to buy things when Vanilla is by design anti ergonomic and slow, also with the Shop promotions going on several times per year (call to action) and the server message asking to donate in order to support them (another cta).

Turtle WoW is not a volunteer nor a small project anymore, they have a hundred of people working on Turtle WoW covering even more regions in the world now.

ochechula
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by ochechula » Thu Feb 06, 2025 6:17 pm

This is textbook wintrading, GMs need to rev up the banhammer. insidious_turtle

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Nicko77
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Re: Ghost Queue Mafia EXPOSED

Post by Nicko77 » Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:14 pm

Snipesta wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 3:52 pm Eh, I beg to differ TWOW owners are a small crew of dedicated people who love the game and continue to do so and for the fact the server is free, and doesn't incentivise you to buy their merch only if you feel like it. I don't see any money makers here...
I would have absolutely donated money to the project if had a proper PVP system that allowed me to play some BGs when I feel like but in the current state I'm sorry but they don't deserve a dime from me.

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