Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

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Eyeburn
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Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Eyeburn » Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:45 am

I usually chalk things like this up to technical limitations, but there's a heavy imbalance on warmode players engaged by non warmode players. Effectively, non warmode players have free reign to initiate combat from a completely safe position. This is a massive advantage, and any warmode player among non warmode of the opposing faction puts themselves in a sitting duck position. If possible, a player must be warmode to engage with another warmode players. At the very least, a player must flag themselves for PvP prior to initiating an attack.

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Bigsmerf
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Bigsmerf » Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:12 am

Don't turn on warmode or accept that you think the XP bonus is worth the occasional death, because you surely wouldn't be taking it if you didn't.
Last edited by Bigsmerf on Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Darktifa
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Darktifa » Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:29 am

Nord is a "pve" realm
Join TA for no "blue walling"
Czasku wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:31 pm After Reading Turtle WoW's forum i understood why Blizzard stopped responding on their own forum topics.

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funeh
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by funeh » Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:29 am

I think 20% xp from all sources is a massive advantage. Im big noob, playing wow for 2 months, i have warmode on, because it's worth occasional deaths.
wow reroll addict

Snipesta
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Snipesta » Thu Jan 30, 2025 5:18 pm

Eyeburn wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:45 am I usually chalk things like this up to technical limitations, but there's a heavy imbalance on warmode players engaged by non warmode players. Effectively, non warmode players have free reign to initiate combat from a completely safe position. This is a massive advantage, and any warmode player among non warmode of the opposing faction puts themselves in a sitting duck position. If possible, a player must be warmode to engage with another warmode players. At the very least, a player must flag themselves for PvP prior to initiating an attack.
Honestly, this has happened to me before but I felt even better when I won that 2v1...it doesn't happen all the time but that's part of the game.

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Allwynd01
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Allwynd01 » Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:52 pm

I think enabling Warmode comes with the caveat, as stated in its description (and name) that you get more XP at the cost of being able to be attacked at all times.

It's as simple as it gets and I also think it's quite the fair trade off.

If you don't want to be attacked, don't enable Warmode.

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Ataika
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Ataika » Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:02 pm

Darktifa wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:29 am Nord is a "pve" realm
Join TA for no "blue walling"
Yeah go play on empty pvp realm with no pvp at all

Xudo
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Xudo » Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:21 pm

Darktifa wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:29 am Join TA for no "blue walling"
Problem of bluewalling exist on TA when people try to attack enemy faction leaders.
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NekoByteData
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by NekoByteData » Fri Jan 31, 2025 12:31 am

LOL that's literally the point of the challenge. Turn it off then.

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Gantulga
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Gantulga » Fri Jan 31, 2025 4:18 am

Fixing bluewalling would be so easy and it'd actually promote PvP but we can't have that can we.

Funny how the supposed "PvP mode" actually discourages PvP on all fronts.

Atreidon
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Atreidon » Fri Jan 31, 2025 6:08 am

Warmode shouldnt exist when we have a dedicated pvp server. It baits people into picking the populated server thinking they can just get warmode and the experience will be like a pvp server.

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Darktifa
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Darktifa » Fri Jan 31, 2025 7:11 am

Ataika wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:02 pm
Darktifa wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:29 am Nord is a "pve" realm
Join TA for no "blue walling"
Yeah go play on empty pvp realm with no pvp at all
I'm not gonna start an endless debate with you, whether TA is dead or not
Xudo wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:21 pm
Darktifa wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:29 am Join TA for no "blue walling"
Problem of bluewalling exist on TA when people try to attack enemy faction leaders.
Technically yes
But we both know it's there to protect lower lvl players in starting areas + Big Cities from getting constantly harassed
Czasku wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:31 pm After Reading Turtle WoW's forum i understood why Blizzard stopped responding on their own forum topics.

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Ataika
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Ataika » Fri Jan 31, 2025 2:10 pm

Darktifa wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 7:11 am I'm not gonna start an endless debate with you, whether TA is dead or not
Hard to claim 300 online realm as alive
Understandable, have a nice day

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Darktifa
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Darktifa » Fri Jan 31, 2025 5:23 pm

Ataika wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 2:10 pm Hard to claim 300 online realm as alive
Understandable, have a nice day
I already regret replying, but here you go

Image

2 hours later

Image
Czasku wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:31 pm After Reading Turtle WoW's forum i understood why Blizzard stopped responding on their own forum topics.

Eyeburn
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Eyeburn » Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:58 am

It seems like people are missing or ignoring the point. I do prefer PvP realms, but not playing on Nord comes with a lot of grouping disadvantages due to the current population difference between the servers.

Warmode is going to function how it functions. I'm just bringing up that roaming around flagged around players who effectively safe until they choose to engage is much different than roaming around flagged around other flagged players. It leads to easier griefing and an overall different PvP dynamic, an unlevel playing field.

It's not a huge deal, but seemed like maybe an oversight or a technical limitation.

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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by NekoByteData » Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:22 am

Eyeburn wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:58 am It seems like people are missing or ignoring the point. I do prefer PvP realms, but not playing on Nord comes with a lot of grouping disadvantages due to the current population difference between the servers.

Warmode is going to function how it functions. I'm just bringing up that roaming around flagged around players who effectively safe until they choose to engage is much different than roaming around flagged around other flagged players. It leads to easier griefing and an overall different PvP dynamic, an unlevel playing field.

It's not a huge deal, but seemed like maybe an oversight or a technical limitation.
Sir, you're playing on a PvE realm. Getting the first hit isn't some technical limitation or oversight by TWoW. That's exactly how it worked in the base game. If you spot a PvP flagged person on a PvE realm, the unflagged person always got the first hit. It's been like that for 20 years on a PvE realm. If you don't like it, disable the warmode challenge, because you're not suited for warmode.

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Gantulga
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Gantulga » Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:54 am

NekoByteData wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:22 am
Eyeburn wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:58 am It seems like people are missing or ignoring the point. I do prefer PvP realms, but not playing on Nord comes with a lot of grouping disadvantages due to the current population difference between the servers.

Warmode is going to function how it functions. I'm just bringing up that roaming around flagged around players who effectively safe until they choose to engage is much different than roaming around flagged around other flagged players. It leads to easier griefing and an overall different PvP dynamic, an unlevel playing field.

It's not a huge deal, but seemed like maybe an oversight or a technical limitation.
Sir, you're playing on a PvE realm. Getting the first hit isn't some technical limitation or oversight by TWoW. That's exactly how it worked in the base game. If you spot a PvP flagged person on a PvE realm, the unflagged person always got the first hit. It's been like that for 20 years on a PvE realm. If you don't like it, disable the warmode challenge, because you're not suited for warmode.
Explain to me the point of the supposed warmode when it's worse than the default PvE flagging for actual PvP. It's just a self-griefing tool as it works right now.

NekoByteData
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by NekoByteData » Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:23 pm

Gantulga wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:54 am
NekoByteData wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:22 am
Eyeburn wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:58 am It seems like people are missing or ignoring the point. I do prefer PvP realms, but not playing on Nord comes with a lot of grouping disadvantages due to the current population difference between the servers.

Warmode is going to function how it functions. I'm just bringing up that roaming around flagged around players who effectively safe until they choose to engage is much different than roaming around flagged around other flagged players. It leads to easier griefing and an overall different PvP dynamic, an unlevel playing field.

It's not a huge deal, but seemed like maybe an oversight or a technical limitation.
Sir, you're playing on a PvE realm. Getting the first hit isn't some technical limitation or oversight by TWoW. That's exactly how it worked in the base game. If you spot a PvP flagged person on a PvE realm, the unflagged person always got the first hit. It's been like that for 20 years on a PvE realm. If you don't like it, disable the warmode challenge, because you're not suited for warmode.
Explain to me the point of the supposed warmode when it's worse than the default PvE flagging for actual PvP. It's just a self-griefing tool as it works right now.
That's what you signed up for. Warmode CHALLENGE. You're on a PvE realm and you're doing a challenge. It's not a make-PvP-fair mode; it's a bonus exp and honor challenge. You want a regular world PvP? Tel'Abim is available for you.

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Gantulga
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Gantulga » Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:46 pm

NekoByteData wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:23 pm
Gantulga wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:54 am
NekoByteData wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:22 am

Sir, you're playing on a PvE realm. Getting the first hit isn't some technical limitation or oversight by TWoW. That's exactly how it worked in the base game. If you spot a PvP flagged person on a PvE realm, the unflagged person always got the first hit. It's been like that for 20 years on a PvE realm. If you don't like it, disable the warmode challenge, because you're not suited for warmode.
Explain to me the point of the supposed warmode when it's worse than the default PvE flagging for actual PvP. It's just a self-griefing tool as it works right now.
That's what you signed up for. Warmode CHALLENGE. You're on a PvE realm and you're doing a challenge. It's not a make-PvP-fair mode; it's a bonus exp and honor challenge. You want a regular world PvP? Tel'Abim is available for you.
What challenge are you talking about? Griefing yourself? I don't give a shit about XP boost.

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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by NekoByteData » Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:10 pm

Gantulga wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:46 pm
NekoByteData wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:23 pm
Gantulga wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:54 am

Explain to me the point of the supposed warmode when it's worse than the default PvE flagging for actual PvP. It's just a self-griefing tool as it works right now.
That's what you signed up for. Warmode CHALLENGE. You're on a PvE realm and you're doing a challenge. It's not a make-PvP-fair mode; it's a bonus exp and honor challenge. You want a regular world PvP? Tel'Abim is available for you.
What challenge are you talking about? Griefing yourself? I don't give a shit about XP boost.
That's your own problem then. Don't cry about your personal issue on the forums. And are you gonna pretend you don't care about the Honor boost as well? You signed up for the challenge on your own will, have some accountability.

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Gantulga
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Gantulga » Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:26 am

I don't care about any kind of boost, I just want to experience actual WPvP. What accountability? What are you even talking about?
The thread is about improving the completely worthless "warmode" that doesn't promote PvP in the slightest, it in fact discourages it.

Eyeburn
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Eyeburn » Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:44 am

NekoByteData wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:22 am
Eyeburn wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:58 am It seems like people are missing or ignoring the point. I do prefer PvP realms, but not playing on Nord comes with a lot of grouping disadvantages due to the current population difference between the servers.

Warmode is going to function how it functions. I'm just bringing up that roaming around flagged around players who effectively safe until they choose to engage is much different than roaming around flagged around other flagged players. It leads to easier griefing and an overall different PvP dynamic, an unlevel playing field.

It's not a huge deal, but seemed like maybe an oversight or a technical limitation.
Sir, you're playing on a PvE realm. Getting the first hit isn't some technical limitation or oversight by TWoW. That's exactly how it worked in the base game. If you spot a PvP flagged person on a PvE realm, the unflagged person always got the first hit. It's been like that for 20 years on a PvE realm. If you don't like it, disable the warmode challenge, because you're not suited for warmode.
Well yeah, the fact that it functions identically to the base game is why I give the courtesy of assuming it's a technical limitation. The glyph permanently activates being PvP flagged, very easy to implement into the game. Something like limiting when a player can attack based of if they've flagged themselves first would be more difficult to implement because it's unlike the base game's PvE realms.

Let's not pretend it's the warmode "challenge". The boar leveling is a challenge. Warmode is pseudo implementing a PvP realm, but without the other crucial element of knowing that all other players are also flagged. Honestly, I assumed that the glyph was created before a PvP realm was an option.

FrankFankledank
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by FrankFankledank » Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:32 am

There really isn't an easy fix to this. Making it so a player has to manually flag first doesn't really change much, they can still come at you from stealth or wait for you to be preoccupied and pop it into an immediate attack, the dedicated slaughterers will learn to macro it. What it does prevent is a Hunter/Mage just blatantly hardcasting Aimed Shot/Pyroblast at you with your choices being to eat it and then try to fight it out or to outmaneuver it again and again and again until they manage to get one off or finally lose interest.

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Gantulga
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Gantulga » Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:46 pm

FrankFankledank wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:32 am There really isn't an easy fix to this. Making it so a player has to manually flag first doesn't really change much, they can still come at you from stealth or wait for you to be preoccupied and pop it into an immediate attack, the dedicated slaughterers will learn to macro it. What it does prevent is a Hunter/Mage just blatantly hardcasting Aimed Shot/Pyroblast at you with your choices being to eat it and then try to fight it out or to outmaneuver it again and again and again until they manage to get one off or finally lose interest.
Making people flag beforehand (like at an inn) before they can attack warmode players would in fact solve this issue. It's not only about getting jumped with a free cast but also about the fact that once the warmode player comes back for revenge, the "normal" player is already unflagged and can continue his stalking with impunity.
It's also about the fact that it'd make those players flagged for everybody else too, making PvP a meaningful choice you participate in, instead of a safe griefing tool the normal flagging is right now.

Atreidon
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Atreidon » Sun Feb 02, 2025 4:08 pm

Eyeburn wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:58 am It seems like people are missing or ignoring the point. I do prefer PvP realms, but not playing on Nord comes with a lot of grouping disadvantages due to the current population difference between the servers.

Warmode is going to function how it functions. I'm just bringing up that roaming around flagged around players who effectively safe until they choose to engage is much different than roaming around flagged around other flagged players. It leads to easier griefing and an overall different PvP dynamic, an unlevel playing field.

It's not a huge deal, but seemed like maybe an oversight or a technical limitation.
The point is, due to warmode existing, plenty of people think like you do, and despite the pvp server being an option that offers you exactly the kind of world pvp experience you are looking for, you pick the overpopulated realm.

If every warmode player would actually play on the pvp realm, not only would the serverpopulation be much more manageable on eiher server, but also would the experience for those partaking in open PvP be better (due to bo bluewalling being possible on tel'abim)

This is why we lamment about warmode. Because it makes the experience for everyone involved bad. And instead of tweaking a broken system over and over, just get rid of warmode and allow the people who want pvp to go on the pvp realm.

There is no point in discussions about how warmode is unfair. Everyone knows first hit wins in pvp. And ofc enabling the big fat target on your back causes this.

Warmode is a tool from a bygone time where twow didnt have the playerbase to support its pvp server. Now it does, and the play experience for everyone would be better if these two ways to play have theie own dedigated servers
Last edited by Atreidon on Sun Feb 02, 2025 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Darktifa
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Darktifa » Sun Feb 02, 2025 4:10 pm

Gantulga wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:46 pm
Making people flag beforehand (like at an inn) before they can attack warmode players would in fact solve this issue. It's not only about getting jumped with a free cast but also about the fact that once the warmode player comes back for revenge, the "normal" player is already unflagged and can continue his stalking with impunity.
It's also about the fact that it'd make those players flagged for everybody else too, making PvP a meaningful choice you participate in, instead of a safe griefing tool the normal flagging is right now.
You are literally describing a pvp realm
Czasku wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:31 pm After Reading Turtle WoW's forum i understood why Blizzard stopped responding on their own forum topics.

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Gantulga
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Gantulga » Sun Feb 02, 2025 4:12 pm

Darktifa wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 4:10 pm
Gantulga wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:46 pm
Making people flag beforehand (like at an inn) before they can attack warmode players would in fact solve this issue. It's not only about getting jumped with a free cast but also about the fact that once the warmode player comes back for revenge, the "normal" player is already unflagged and can continue his stalking with impunity.
It's also about the fact that it'd make those players flagged for everybody else too, making PvP a meaningful choice you participate in, instead of a safe griefing tool the normal flagging is right now.
You are literally describing a pvp realm
Broken record.

NekoByteData
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by NekoByteData » Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:55 pm

Gantulga wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 4:12 pm
Darktifa wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 4:10 pm
Gantulga wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:46 pm
Making people flag beforehand (like at an inn) before they can attack warmode players would in fact solve this issue. It's not only about getting jumped with a free cast but also about the fact that once the warmode player comes back for revenge, the "normal" player is already unflagged and can continue his stalking with impunity.
It's also about the fact that it'd make those players flagged for everybody else too, making PvP a meaningful choice you participate in, instead of a safe griefing tool the normal flagging is right now.
You are literally describing a pvp realm
Broken record.
QQ more and go to a PvP server, you don't belong in Nordanaar. Coming to a PvE server and crying about PvP challenge mode being unfair, unbelievable.

Imagine crying that people playing on a PvP server cannot turn on PvE mode and it's unfair they can't prevent themselves from being ganked. What a ridiculous person (like you) that would be.

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Gantulga
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Gantulga » Mon Feb 03, 2025 8:38 pm

Another low IQ reply that completely misses the point while for some reason getting really flustered about something he supposedly doesn't care about.

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Darktifa
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Re: Warmode and unflagged players initiating combat

Post by Darktifa » Mon Feb 03, 2025 8:54 pm

Akalix wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:50 pm Warmode is not a free 30% experience bonus.

If you choose to opt into permanent flagging, do not be surprised when you die. We are not adding
"flag for the next day" or "x level range for pvp."
Akalix wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:35 pm If you take Warmode, and flag yourself for PvP, that puts you at risk of being PvP'd by other players. Including those who are not flagged, but opt to flag themselves by attacking you. This is base game behavior, and is no different than world pvp on any typical PvE server. Don't take WM if you are not willing to take this risk.

Stop replying to Gantulga
he already knows the answers
Czasku wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:31 pm After Reading Turtle WoW's forum i understood why Blizzard stopped responding on their own forum topics.

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