Consider a rebalance of ranking without honor decay

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Eyeburn
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Consider a rebalance of ranking without honor decay

Post by Eyeburn » Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:29 am

The biggest issue with ranking, and yes I have done the r14 grind, is that once you start, you absolutely cannot stop. It's not how many months it takes, it's that you cannot stop the daily honor grind until r14 is achieved due to the immense progress lost for being behind for even a single week.

I think a long term goal for turtle WoW should be to adjust ranking not in a way that accelerates it, but in a way that allows players to hop off the honor grind if time doesn't permit it. I'm fully aware of what that time commitment looks like between 11-14. The 3-4 months isn't the issue. The 10h days doing bgs, every day, for those months is a really poorly designed system. I do think it should take real time to get any of the 12-14 gear given how powerful it is, but players shouldn't feel like they're trapped in a daily marathon to get there. That was the great downfall of the system, and it's why more players don't bother doing BGs or even look at ranking as something to do. People spend years of time on vanilla, but a scant fraction ever participate in ranking because it holds all the commitment of having a mortgage on a 50 year loan.

I know the honor decay is what makes ranking in vanilla so infamous, but that doesn't mean that it's a good system.

FrankFankledank
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Re: Consider a rebalance of ranking without honor decay

Post by FrankFankledank » Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:39 am

I'm not sure if you're aware, but honor decay on Turtle WoW was already changed where it doesn't derank you, it just leaves you at the bottom of your current one. I'm sure losing half of your rank 12-13 process still isn't amazing though, maybe we can make it so established rank 14 nolifers continuing to pound BGs aren't included in the calculations? Dunno if that would reduce much.

Xerilin
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Re: Consider a rebalance of ranking without honor decay

Post by Xerilin » Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:47 am

Here is a link to what the poster before me said:

https://turtle-wow.org/player-versus-player-content

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Zvyrhol
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Re: Consider a rebalance of ranking without honor decay

Post by Zvyrhol » Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:03 am

Here is my solution:
  • Remove decay completely
  • Make grinding much longer instead
Everyone will be happy. It's that simple.

Akos1896
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Re: Consider a rebalance of ranking without honor decay

Post by Akos1896 » Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:23 pm

Personally I find absurd how hard it is to get to high rank rewards while PVE progression just powercrept those items anyway.
It is of course okay to think about it as a challenge, do it and then be proud of your rank. But if it's done for the items, it just doesn't worth it.
You either do TWOW PVP for months as a full time job without any day off to get a rank, some bonuses here and there and the option to get soom cool items.
Or you reach lvl 60, pug ZG, MC kara etc for 1-2 weeks, include BWL at week 3 (or even sooner if you have a cool guild) and you have a shot at stronger gears.

I don't like that PVP rewards barely (if at all) followed PVE raid tier progression. Nowadays most guilds have several raids on farm which can give at least PVP r14 level loot.

Xudo
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Re: Consider a rebalance of ranking without honor decay

Post by Xudo » Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:02 pm

Vanilla wow design comes from ancient times where PvP was a pinnacle of character progression.
For example it was designed with ganking in mind. Being killed by 60 lvl player was your motivation to level your character. Being killed by r14 player while you are in dungeon blues is your motivation to grind honor or raid.

Like MC was added in 1.1.0, honor system was added in 1.4.0, WSG and AV was added in 1.5.0
This is the time when you can get full epic gear from MC and PvP gear was your next goal in progression. BWL was opened in 1.6 and its gear is on par with PvP gear, so things are still "fine".
Opening of AQ40 and naxx was not very dramatical change back then, because few guilds managed to clear it. So PvP gear was reasonable upgrade.
But now things have changed. A lot of people clear naxx and pvp gear is useless.
PvP gear should be better than any PvE gear to make it reasonable goal.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.

Snkx
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Re: Consider a rebalance of ranking without honor decay

Post by Snkx » Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:25 pm

The PvP Sets need a buff for a start, when T3.5 Comes out and even T4, they will be so far behind, no one will grind this, but for Tmog. (like the R14 Weps are atm)

Eyeburn
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Re: Consider a rebalance of ranking without honor decay

Post by Eyeburn » Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:51 am

FrankFankledank wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:39 am I'm not sure if you're aware, but honor decay on Turtle WoW was already changed where it doesn't derank you, it just leaves you at the bottom of your current one. I'm sure losing half of your rank 12-13 process still isn't amazing though, maybe we can make it so established rank 14 nolifers continuing to pound BGs aren't included in the calculations? Dunno if that would reduce much.
That does very little, but it does a little. The general time frame for the grind is a few weeks to go from rank 1 to rank 11. Then from 11 to 12 is about another month. From 12 to 13 is a little more than a month. From 13 to 14 is a solid 2 months, maybe 3, I don't know how turtle handles the brackets.

The core problem with the system still persists. Grinding honor for 8-10h every day to beat the decay for a period of a month or more is a very bad system. It's not that it takes x amount of time, it's that you cannot progress unless you never stop grinding at any point. If someone can no life to r14 in 3-4 months, that's great, but someone should be able to take their time to r14 in 6+ months depending on how much time per week they're physically available to play the game at all. I know the grind, it sacrifices everything else in life, sleep included, to keep at it and not lose progress. Turtle saving your rank does a tiny bit, but given where the grind stretches exist in the first place, there's fundamentally no difference from the original vanilla system.

This whole section of content can be a dedicated grind system that takes significant time investment without forcing players to play nonstop.

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