Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
- Dracarusggotham
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Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
I know that many of you have come here from retail, and the first thing you will notice "Out of place" is that the Thalassian elves belong to the Alliance and there is no trace of the conventional Blood Elves that we saw in retail since The Burning Crusade, you will ask yourself: Where are they? What are these High Elves? Aren't they supposed to be almost extinct? Don't they hate the Alliance?
Well, there are many points, there are several forums and threads here on Turtle but finally I want to condense everything into a single lore post about them.
BLOOD ELVES VS HIGH ELVES
First of all, I don't think that anyone who knows the Blood Elves doesn't know the High Elves, and at first glance many reduce it to "They are the same but with blue eyes", but the truth is no, they are not the same. From skills, ideologies and loyalties.
Before the splintering of the race
The High Elves are the original race of the Blood Elves, Elves skilled with arcane magic, with blue eyes and from their origins quite reserved.
They joined the Alliance of Lordaeron due to a debt they took with the humans of Arathor millennia before the first and second war, since they helped them with the Amani Trolls besieging Quel'thalas, they taught 100 humans the use of arcane magic as payment for the Alliance and since then they maintained cordial relations with the human empire and even many years later they joined the Alliance of Lordaeron to face the orcish Horde.
After the war and their forests being burned by the savage orcs, the elves left the Alliance, arguing that King Therenas Menethil II's lack of leadership had caused their precious forests to burn.
During the Third War a few elves continued to live among the humans of Lordaeron, especially in Dalaran, and when the Plague of Lordaeron arose they sent some priests to investigate what was causing such evil in the Kingdom, helping Prince Arthas Menethil in his crusade.
Unfortunately after the latter's betrayal, Quel'thalas was razed and the elven population was reduced to an all-time low, corrupting their main source of magic, the Sunwell.
RISE OF THE BLOOD ELVES
Here we come to the part that most people know:
Kael'thas returned from Dalaran and organized a group of High Elves whom he renamed Blood Elves in honor of his fallen brothers and set out to aid the remaining Alliance of Lordaeron, these in aid suffered scorn from Garithos and were imprisoned in the Ruins of Dalaran, they escaped and allied themselves with the Nagas and Illidan Stormrage.
There are many events in between that lead to the outcome of their story in Warcraft III and place us right at the beginning of World of Warcraft:
After a failed attempt to destroy the Frozen Throne and the defeat of Illidan at the hands of Arthas they escaped to Outland where they settled to this day.
What happened after this?
Well, this is where the story splits into two, Turtle's and Blizzard's.
Blizzard
In the Blizzard retail story ALL High Elves came to adopt the name of Blood Elves in honor of their fallen, lost and magic-hungry brothers, they developed a terrible addiction due to the lack of the Sunwell, this same began to corrupt them by being contaminated with the vileness of the Plague of the Undead, leading Kael'thas to make the terrible decision to destroy it before his departure to Outland, after a time Kael'thas returned from Outland and instructed the magisters that remained in Quel'thalas to be able to rebuild Silvermoon and reclaim the lost lands of Quel'thalas in the hands of the plague.
The bad thing is that they did it using fel magic, the magic that the Burning Legion uses, the same magic that corrupted the orcs, the same magic of the demons.
Because of this last, many Elves rejected such practices, considering them vile and senseless, unable to justify their use solely due to their addiction and times of need, unable to lead a divided people and with the departure of Kael'thas, Lor'themar Theron, former Ranger and whom Kael'thas had left as regent in his absence, banished them from Quel'thalas, these exiled High Elves got rid of the name of Blood Elves considering it something vile, for the same reason they did not want to be confused with the latter, they traveled and settled in several refuges scattered throughout the Eastern Kingdoms, receiving occasional help from their former allies of the Alliance, some even decided to settle in the Human capital of Stormwind.
Later, the Elves in Quel'thalas received support from the Forsaken, which led to their subsequent joining the Horde. Some elves rejected this Alliance of convenience with the Horde, since it was composed of several races with whom they had previously fought and who had even massacred them, something that only the passage of time would change.
Turtle
In Turtle, the lore changes, taking the events of Warcraft III The Frozen Throne literally:
After Kael'thas' disappearance in Outland, many Elves in Quel'thalas began to believe that their prince would never return and that he would not be able to fulfill the promise he made to cure their addiction to magic, added to the worrying rumors of the methods, alliances and acts committed by the latter.
With Quel'thalas still in ruins and totally unprotected surrounded by lands that had been consumed by the plague in their entirety, they decided to leave for the south, in search of help from whoever could give it to them, which came from the hands of the Alliance when they found them in the dwarven lands of Loch Modan, lost, divided and weakened, the Elves accepted the help of the humans and the other races that were part of it, driving them to rejoin the Alliance again.
Blood Elves in Mysteries of Azeroth
Blood Elves are mostly hostile to both the Alliance and the Horde, the latter slaughtering them in Felwood, while those remaining in the now Alliance Lands are kept at bay by the High Elves themselves.
Some have settled in the Thalassian Highlands, spying on every move their fellow High Elves make, in this, the Horde has sent an emissary of the Forsaken to the Felstrider Retreat to hold diplomatic talks with Eldin Sunstrider, though both were killed by the Rogues of Alah'thalas, putting a stop to this negotiations.
However, we later learn that these Elves have been sent by Kael'thas to be aware of what has become of his people in all these years, while he remains in Outland seeking a cure for his people's addiction.
This is where the lore of the Thalassian Elves in Turtle WoW ends...which will continue in future patches.
Now the questions:
Do Thalassian Elves make sense in the Alliance?
I answer you...yes, much more than in the Horde to be honest.
Let's start with the fact that the Horde is composed mainly of races that have been at war with the elves of Quel'thalas and the Alliance itself.
Orcs:
They burned their forests and massacred their people in the Second War, not to mention more barbarities committed against Silvermoon.
Trolls:
They were at war with the Amani for millennia, a war that they could have lost if it weren't for the help of the humans of Arathor, just as in the Second War they took them to the Gates of Zul'Aman to stop Zul'jin, being this a danger due to its proximity to Quel'thalas.
Aren't they the same Trolls? Obviously not, they are Darkspear Trolls, but I think this should have already set a very big prejudice on the elves to despise any race of Troll, whether or not they are Amani, which completely invalidates the argument that they joined the Horde because of Garithos, being this one human who only committed racist acts against a regiment of Blood Elves.
Undead:
The "race" that practically exterminated the Thalassian Elves of Azeroth, these were those who, under the control of Arthas Menethil, completely razed Quel'thalas and contaminated the Sunwell, leading Kael'thas to make the hard decision to destroy it for the good of his people.
So they don't hate the Alliance?
They might feel some repudiation towards humans due to Garithos' actions, but it is still more convenient and logical for them to join the Alliance, due to customs, culture and shared history.
They don't hate the Alliance, not the majority, their relationship with the human race is long-standing and full of help between both races.
As mentioned, humans established contact with the Elves when the latter sent emissaries to the Arathor Empire to ask for help against the Amani Trolls, they returned the favor by teaching magic to 100 humans and later joining the Alliance of Lordaeron against the Orc Horde.
Taking into account also that the Guardian of Tirisfal was created in union of Human and Elf Mages, being empowered by the magic power given by both races, the last guardian was Medivh.
Did they have their disagreements? Of course, they left the Alliance of Lordaeron due to Therenas's decadent leadership and the burning of their forests, however, they remained in contact with the Kingdom of Dalaran and some lived in Lordaeron without problems. Which, although it creates a small discord between both governments, the race already felt very comfortable among humans.
What about the crimes of Arthas Menethil?
Same as with Garithos, but here's the logical point, Lordaeron fell to Arthas before Quel'thalas, Arthas slaughtered his own people and then slaughtered the High Elves.
I think the Elves are smart and sensible enough to put the threads together and not blame humanity, in fact, they would be able to feel empathy towards the humans left in Lordaeron who practically suffered the same fate as them.
Whenever I see the topic of High Elves or Blood Elves in the Alliance come up I see people saying "They joined the Horde because of Garithos and Arthas, they made them lose trust in humans and the Alliance by slaughtering their people."
I hope this is enough to dismantle and demonstrate how silly and incoherent that argument is.
With this I hope to have provided many answers to why Turtle decided to join the High Elves to the Alliance, as well as laying several foundations that have been discussed in the Blizzard forums since the launch of The Burning Crusade almost 20 years ago.
HIGH ELVES, THE RACE THAT BLIZZARD DENIED US
Well, there are many points, there are several forums and threads here on Turtle but finally I want to condense everything into a single lore post about them.
BLOOD ELVES VS HIGH ELVES
First of all, I don't think that anyone who knows the Blood Elves doesn't know the High Elves, and at first glance many reduce it to "They are the same but with blue eyes", but the truth is no, they are not the same. From skills, ideologies and loyalties.
Before the splintering of the race
The High Elves are the original race of the Blood Elves, Elves skilled with arcane magic, with blue eyes and from their origins quite reserved.
They joined the Alliance of Lordaeron due to a debt they took with the humans of Arathor millennia before the first and second war, since they helped them with the Amani Trolls besieging Quel'thalas, they taught 100 humans the use of arcane magic as payment for the Alliance and since then they maintained cordial relations with the human empire and even many years later they joined the Alliance of Lordaeron to face the orcish Horde.
After the war and their forests being burned by the savage orcs, the elves left the Alliance, arguing that King Therenas Menethil II's lack of leadership had caused their precious forests to burn.
During the Third War a few elves continued to live among the humans of Lordaeron, especially in Dalaran, and when the Plague of Lordaeron arose they sent some priests to investigate what was causing such evil in the Kingdom, helping Prince Arthas Menethil in his crusade.
Unfortunately after the latter's betrayal, Quel'thalas was razed and the elven population was reduced to an all-time low, corrupting their main source of magic, the Sunwell.
RISE OF THE BLOOD ELVES
Here we come to the part that most people know:
Kael'thas returned from Dalaran and organized a group of High Elves whom he renamed Blood Elves in honor of his fallen brothers and set out to aid the remaining Alliance of Lordaeron, these in aid suffered scorn from Garithos and were imprisoned in the Ruins of Dalaran, they escaped and allied themselves with the Nagas and Illidan Stormrage.
There are many events in between that lead to the outcome of their story in Warcraft III and place us right at the beginning of World of Warcraft:
After a failed attempt to destroy the Frozen Throne and the defeat of Illidan at the hands of Arthas they escaped to Outland where they settled to this day.
What happened after this?
Well, this is where the story splits into two, Turtle's and Blizzard's.
Blizzard
In the Blizzard retail story ALL High Elves came to adopt the name of Blood Elves in honor of their fallen, lost and magic-hungry brothers, they developed a terrible addiction due to the lack of the Sunwell, this same began to corrupt them by being contaminated with the vileness of the Plague of the Undead, leading Kael'thas to make the terrible decision to destroy it before his departure to Outland, after a time Kael'thas returned from Outland and instructed the magisters that remained in Quel'thalas to be able to rebuild Silvermoon and reclaim the lost lands of Quel'thalas in the hands of the plague.
The bad thing is that they did it using fel magic, the magic that the Burning Legion uses, the same magic that corrupted the orcs, the same magic of the demons.
Because of this last, many Elves rejected such practices, considering them vile and senseless, unable to justify their use solely due to their addiction and times of need, unable to lead a divided people and with the departure of Kael'thas, Lor'themar Theron, former Ranger and whom Kael'thas had left as regent in his absence, banished them from Quel'thalas, these exiled High Elves got rid of the name of Blood Elves considering it something vile, for the same reason they did not want to be confused with the latter, they traveled and settled in several refuges scattered throughout the Eastern Kingdoms, receiving occasional help from their former allies of the Alliance, some even decided to settle in the Human capital of Stormwind.
Later, the Elves in Quel'thalas received support from the Forsaken, which led to their subsequent joining the Horde. Some elves rejected this Alliance of convenience with the Horde, since it was composed of several races with whom they had previously fought and who had even massacred them, something that only the passage of time would change.
Turtle
In Turtle, the lore changes, taking the events of Warcraft III The Frozen Throne literally:
After Kael'thas' disappearance in Outland, many Elves in Quel'thalas began to believe that their prince would never return and that he would not be able to fulfill the promise he made to cure their addiction to magic, added to the worrying rumors of the methods, alliances and acts committed by the latter.
With Quel'thalas still in ruins and totally unprotected surrounded by lands that had been consumed by the plague in their entirety, they decided to leave for the south, in search of help from whoever could give it to them, which came from the hands of the Alliance when they found them in the dwarven lands of Loch Modan, lost, divided and weakened, the Elves accepted the help of the humans and the other races that were part of it, driving them to rejoin the Alliance again.
Blood Elves in Mysteries of Azeroth
Blood Elves are mostly hostile to both the Alliance and the Horde, the latter slaughtering them in Felwood, while those remaining in the now Alliance Lands are kept at bay by the High Elves themselves.
Some have settled in the Thalassian Highlands, spying on every move their fellow High Elves make, in this, the Horde has sent an emissary of the Forsaken to the Felstrider Retreat to hold diplomatic talks with Eldin Sunstrider, though both were killed by the Rogues of Alah'thalas, putting a stop to this negotiations.
However, we later learn that these Elves have been sent by Kael'thas to be aware of what has become of his people in all these years, while he remains in Outland seeking a cure for his people's addiction.
This is where the lore of the Thalassian Elves in Turtle WoW ends...which will continue in future patches.
Now the questions:
Do Thalassian Elves make sense in the Alliance?
I answer you...yes, much more than in the Horde to be honest.
Let's start with the fact that the Horde is composed mainly of races that have been at war with the elves of Quel'thalas and the Alliance itself.
Orcs:
They burned their forests and massacred their people in the Second War, not to mention more barbarities committed against Silvermoon.
Trolls:
They were at war with the Amani for millennia, a war that they could have lost if it weren't for the help of the humans of Arathor, just as in the Second War they took them to the Gates of Zul'Aman to stop Zul'jin, being this a danger due to its proximity to Quel'thalas.
Aren't they the same Trolls? Obviously not, they are Darkspear Trolls, but I think this should have already set a very big prejudice on the elves to despise any race of Troll, whether or not they are Amani, which completely invalidates the argument that they joined the Horde because of Garithos, being this one human who only committed racist acts against a regiment of Blood Elves.
Undead:
The "race" that practically exterminated the Thalassian Elves of Azeroth, these were those who, under the control of Arthas Menethil, completely razed Quel'thalas and contaminated the Sunwell, leading Kael'thas to make the hard decision to destroy it for the good of his people.
So they don't hate the Alliance?
They might feel some repudiation towards humans due to Garithos' actions, but it is still more convenient and logical for them to join the Alliance, due to customs, culture and shared history.
They don't hate the Alliance, not the majority, their relationship with the human race is long-standing and full of help between both races.
As mentioned, humans established contact with the Elves when the latter sent emissaries to the Arathor Empire to ask for help against the Amani Trolls, they returned the favor by teaching magic to 100 humans and later joining the Alliance of Lordaeron against the Orc Horde.
Taking into account also that the Guardian of Tirisfal was created in union of Human and Elf Mages, being empowered by the magic power given by both races, the last guardian was Medivh.
Did they have their disagreements? Of course, they left the Alliance of Lordaeron due to Therenas's decadent leadership and the burning of their forests, however, they remained in contact with the Kingdom of Dalaran and some lived in Lordaeron without problems. Which, although it creates a small discord between both governments, the race already felt very comfortable among humans.
What about the crimes of Arthas Menethil?
Same as with Garithos, but here's the logical point, Lordaeron fell to Arthas before Quel'thalas, Arthas slaughtered his own people and then slaughtered the High Elves.
I think the Elves are smart and sensible enough to put the threads together and not blame humanity, in fact, they would be able to feel empathy towards the humans left in Lordaeron who practically suffered the same fate as them.
Whenever I see the topic of High Elves or Blood Elves in the Alliance come up I see people saying "They joined the Horde because of Garithos and Arthas, they made them lose trust in humans and the Alliance by slaughtering their people."
I hope this is enough to dismantle and demonstrate how silly and incoherent that argument is.
With this I hope to have provided many answers to why Turtle decided to join the High Elves to the Alliance, as well as laying several foundations that have been discussed in the Blizzard forums since the launch of The Burning Crusade almost 20 years ago.
HIGH ELVES, THE RACE THAT BLIZZARD DENIED US
Last edited by Dracarusggotham on Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Re: Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
I'm glad Turtle WoW's rendition of the game gave justice to the High Elf lore. Elves don't belong on the Horde thematically or lore-wise. The Blood Elves should have never been more than a cult faction of Prince Kael'Thas that are hostile to both the Alliance and the Horde.
Re: Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
I would accept any lore justfication if they added Silvermoon City as in TBC to twow and make it a neutral city.
It was beautiful and a major horde RP hub in TBC. Bringing it back and making it neutral would be a massive boon to RP.
Alas, roleplay is usually a low priority; even here.
It was beautiful and a major horde RP hub in TBC. Bringing it back and making it neutral would be a massive boon to RP.
Alas, roleplay is usually a low priority; even here.
Re: Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
Why would it be neutral? It should be hostile based on the HE questline. And also, the Elves were at war with the Amani ,which the old horde aided, so having trolls and orcs (not the same clans but still) wouldn't make sense to be neutral/friendly with the horde. Also the forsaken ( previous scourge that destroyed their land and destroyed the Sunwell to resurrect Kel'Thuzad).
- Dracarusggotham
- Posts: 653
- Location: Azeroth
- Has liked: 41 times
- Likes: 54 times
- Contact:
Re: Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
Roleplay is very important here.Zulnam wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 2:10 pm I would accept any lore justfication if they added Silvermoon City as in TBC to twow and make it a neutral city.
It was beautiful and a major horde RP hub in TBC. Bringing it back and making it neutral would be a massive boon to RP.
Alas, roleplay is usually a low priority; even here.
There's a reason why there aren't any paladins in the Horde yet, Turtle sticks very closely to the lore implemented in the RTS and in the Blizzard patches before TBC (Come on, the good times of Warcraft lore).
I understand that Silvermoon will be a dungeon/raid in patch 1.19.0 and that the implemented city will be Zul'Aman as the capital of the Horde.
They had plans to make Quel'thalas and Outland from TBC in 1.15.0, but for some reason they discarded them, I checked the files a bit with Noggit and indeed they are there.
We just have to wait to see how Turtle develops everything in the next patches.
I highly doubt that the current Elves in Turtle can be neutral, except for some blood elves that roam the eastern kingdoms.
Silvermoon also wouldn't make sense for it to be neutral to the Horde if the latter were to be an explorable capital instead of a raid.
Re: Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
I am honestly happy about it. Blood elves don't make sense in the Horde and entire TBC questline was one massive plot armor to not only add blood elves to the Horde but also undo everything that actually made them blood elves.
While at the same time throwing the forest trolls under the bus, Revantusk tribe on retail remains to be oddity instead of fleshed out members of the Horde. Zul'Jin was done dirty.
So I am very happy what Turtle did.
It made happy both Alliance, by giving them the elves they wanted for years, and to troll fans, such as me, for giving Revantusk more spotlight, adding extra friendly forest tribe, and hinting return of the Great Amani Warlord.
Might be just me, but I don't really miss blood elves on the Horde.
While at the same time throwing the forest trolls under the bus, Revantusk tribe on retail remains to be oddity instead of fleshed out members of the Horde. Zul'Jin was done dirty.
So I am very happy what Turtle did.
It made happy both Alliance, by giving them the elves they wanted for years, and to troll fans, such as me, for giving Revantusk more spotlight, adding extra friendly forest tribe, and hinting return of the Great Amani Warlord.
Might be just me, but I don't really miss blood elves on the Horde.
Re: Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
Two-faction system indeed shackles and undermines the extant lore made before World of Warcraft was released. Blizzard made Blood elves join the Orcish Horde, a recent rival in the story, only for balancing the population of Alliance-Horde faction, a system of simplicity that is easier project for game designing.
On lore's perspective, Kael'thas joins in Illidan's forces because they're strangers before the meet and no historical hatred prevents them from using/collabrating with each other. On the other hand, orcs have been the main enemy of high elves for dozens of years, so Kael and his brethrens, especially when they are not considered enemies by Stormwind, have no reason to serve under "lowly" orcs.
On lore's perspective, Kael'thas joins in Illidan's forces because they're strangers before the meet and no historical hatred prevents them from using/collabrating with each other. On the other hand, orcs have been the main enemy of high elves for dozens of years, so Kael and his brethrens, especially when they are not considered enemies by Stormwind, have no reason to serve under "lowly" orcs.
Two of my concerns.
1. Making draeneis relatives of eredars was Blizzard's overexploitation to the lore.
2. It can't be more explicit that Illidan, as an archetypal villain, dies in The Frozen Throne.
1. Making draeneis relatives of eredars was Blizzard's overexploitation to the lore.
2. It can't be more explicit that Illidan, as an archetypal villain, dies in The Frozen Throne.
Re: Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
Indeed. There should be four factions, like in WC3 - or none.
Re: Blood Elves, the controversy that will never end
You make a pretty good point. TBC made so many mistakes and one of them is Horde outright ignoring forest trolls. It is pretty wild logic that Thrall and his co ditching their old allies of Amani in favour of blood elves. It is akin to ignoring your old buddies just because there is new hot girl in the room. This is outright betrayal from the Horde. If I were Zul'jin i would be pretty pissed at the Horde too.Qualopec wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:21 pm I am honestly happy about it. Blood elves don't make sense in the Horde and entire TBC questline was one massive plot armor to not only add blood elves to the Horde but also undo everything that actually made them blood elves.
While at the same time throwing the forest trolls under the bus, Revantusk tribe on retail remains to be oddity instead of fleshed out members of the Horde. Zul'Jin was done dirty.
So I am very happy what Turtle did.
It made happy both Alliance, by giving them the elves they wanted for years, and to troll fans, such as me, for giving Revantusk more spotlight, adding extra friendly forest tribe, and hinting return of the Great Amani Warlord.
Might be just me, but I don't really miss blood elves on the Horde.
Not to mention outlandish justifications they make up to add blood elves to Horde.