Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

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Aydea
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Aydea » Mon Oct 28, 2024 7:07 am

Goodness there certainly seems to be a lot of discussion about this update. Having read through some of it I honestly think that the most that can be said has been stated in one fashion or another so I don't think I have a lot to add in terms of feedback. I also don't expect that my post here is going to accomplish a whole lot or facilitate any change-of-minds and that is okay for me, its not why I write this. My goal with this post is to add some "food for thought" to this free-for-all buffet, considerations, ideas. You can take them or leave them as you like.

First off I have a lot of respect for the life time and ardous and agonizing hours upon hours of modding and then testing and then re-modding and re-testing and play testing that must have gone into this. Like Grinfaces post which I adore I won't claim I understand the game to the extent that I could give a whole lot of feedback or tell people that one change is good or another is bad, I simply don't know. All I know is that a LOT of lifetime went into this and not only that also love and dedication and though I loathe to say it, yes, also money. Stuff costs money and someone has to pay that money. And that someone isn't us we can just come and play so there is that. Just to set the tone of this post.


That being said the one thing I haven't seen mentioned so far is so called "elemental mages" who build a weird off the beaten path crit focused build around "Shatter". Given Shatter was reduced from +50% crit against frozen targets to a maximum of +35% I don't know if this makes this build less viable given the plethora of other changes to the mage talent tree which elemental mages won't have the talents for to actually invest into. It might make this niche build less viable, but it also might not make it less viable, as I said, I don't know.


As far as my own opinion and feelings go I think a potentially overlooked post by ProfGiggles reflects it very nicely and in a grounded fashion that does not hurt anyone's feelings. The only thing I would have to add to that is that in my experience as an amateur modder I understand well the constant temptation of improving things, adding things, making the mod better, updating the mod and most of the time those are very, very valid concerns. Sometimes you get amazing ideas only as you go and you might find that they go far beyond the original plan and as it were actually do make everything better.
However, at the same time with all modding projects there comes a point when the mod is in a good place and further drastic core-gameplay changes simply aren't needed anymore. That is not to say some polish here and there or content (zones, dungeons, quests, etc) additions are bad, they aren't. But changing the core-game play to the extent as is proposed, or indeed, planned here ... I don't know, guys. It reminds me of the proverb "fixing it until its broken" which is definitely something that I see this mod currently being at risk at.

I well understand the temptation to introduce a large amount of changes to a modding project all at once especially if you are 100% convinced of them. I would know, I have done it myself. And because of that I can say that while it -can- be a good idea, it honestly more often than not, isn't. In my experience a slower pace is a better approach because you have more time to undo, rollback or change directions if something does not work without alienating or losing your audience. If you introduce it all at once it is a essentially a gamble of proportions as enormous as your audience is in size.

But who knows maybe this is the best thing that ever happened to this server. Time (and much playtesting I am sure!) will tell.


If you have made it this far, kudos and thanks for being an absolute dear and reading through my at the very least sincere attempt to write something that hopefully adds value to this discussion or at the very least does not detract from it.
Last edited by Aydea on Mon Oct 28, 2024 7:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

Atreidon
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Atreidon » Mon Oct 28, 2024 7:08 am

khar0356 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:24 am I have a really good suggestion, that a lot of people will probably agree with. How about, you make the Head of Solnius a raid wide drop instead of only 1 in a raid? Seeing as i've raided ES for almost 2 months, soft reserving the head, and i still havent gotten it. And now that youre removing the arcanite rod requirement for the quest their will probably be even more competition for it. It's very frustrating, and as its basiaclly the only useful item for feral druids in the entire raid it makes me even more upset that I cant get it. MAKE THIS HAPPEN. 1 person in 30+ people getting the head, every week, and more people getting attuned all the time and wanting it makes it a s#!t show trying to get it.
"Good" suggestion is subjective.
The quest reward from the head of solnius drops items that are extremely strong for how easy of a raid es is at scaling. You play classic, a game that is slow as hell on a private server. Tge content moves at a glacial pace. So there is heaps of time to get the item. Making this a one and done affair for the entire raid will mean you just do one raid at fresh 60 and you have one trinket that will last you till content clear.
If you HEAVILY nerf the quest rewards, maybe you could do it, but the current version is just fine. There are many things wrong with es. The head of Solnius quest aint it

thetruemeccs
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by thetruemeccs » Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:04 am

As someone who has just started playing here recently and has not invested much time into my character, I must say that these changes are making me consider if I want to continue my journey on this server. I love all the new zones, quests, new races you have added as it just adds more flavour and more replayability for the characters.

But some of these changes to the classes seem little too radical and remind more of Season of Discovery. I mostly play mage and at a first glance, the arcane and frost rotations seem a little too complicated for classic gameplay (as a frost mage, will I have to stand in melee range of the boss, to refresh my Icicles with Frost Nova on cooldown?). Of course it's not retail level complicated, but the magic of vanilla combat was its simplicity with which a 10 year old or 75 year old could perform somewhat acceptable. I also feel that the changes go against the philosophy you have put forth:
Our philosophy has always been focusing on enhancing and polishing the existing identity of classes and specializations, rather than reworking or replacing them entirely. As fun as some more wacky concepts may be, we want to keep true to the identity of vanilla classes. This means smaller and less drastic changes overall, which should culminate in a healthy meta allowing each class and specialization to shine in their own way.

viewtopic.php?t=13840
I agree with a point I've read here a few times that reworking unviable specs (hence adding stuff) is OK. But removing, nerfing or changing estabilished playstyles is not. I can't speak for everyone, but the appeal of the server for me was the idea of adding unfinished stuff, balancing and generally polishing the original vanilla game. But with these changes I am not sure I am the target audience anymore.

Regardless, I will keep on playing as I want to see for myself how these changes reflect on the spirit of vanilla, however I also hope that maybe in the future you will be more transparent and conservative with the changes.

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Harkus
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Harkus » Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:31 am

Voodoochile wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 8:23 pm
Harkus wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 12:58 pm The ''I donated so I get to decide the changes'' people are really something else... we donated because we love this server, not to become shareholders... thank you to the devs for keeping up this amazing server for so long and all the effort you're putting into the future turtle_in_love_head
I'm sure Blizzard thought the same thing in WoD, BFA, and Shadowlands
That would be idiotic of them because paying for access to a product is not at all the same as donating money out of appreciation. Again, giving Turtle money doesn't entitle you to anything other than shop rewards.

Xudo
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Xudo » Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:47 am

thetruemeccs wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:04 am
But some of these changes to the classes seem little too radical and remind more of Season of Discovery. I mostly play mage and at a first glance, the arcane and frost rotations seem a little too complicated for classic gameplay (as a frost mage, will I have to stand in melee range of the boss, to refresh my Icicles with Frost Nova on cooldown?). Of course it's not retail level complicated, but the magic of vanilla combat was its simplicity with which a 10 year old or 75 year old could perform somewhat acceptable. I also feel that the changes go against the philosophy you have put forth:
Frost tree had talent Frostbite, which freezes your target and it procs off frostbolt.
So you basically keep spamming frostbolt, but with 15% chance per cast your Icicles cooldown gets reset.

If spamming single button and occasionally pressing another is too complex for you, then I think it is fine that you leave the server.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.

thetruemeccs
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by thetruemeccs » Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:15 am

Xudo wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:47 am
thetruemeccs wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:04 am
But some of these changes to the classes seem little too radical and remind more of Season of Discovery. I mostly play mage and at a first glance, the arcane and frost rotations seem a little too complicated for classic gameplay (as a frost mage, will I have to stand in melee range of the boss, to refresh my Icicles with Frost Nova on cooldown?). Of course it's not retail level complicated, but the magic of vanilla combat was its simplicity with which a 10 year old or 75 year old could perform somewhat acceptable. I also feel that the changes go against the philosophy you have put forth:
Frost tree had talent Frostbite, which freezes your target and it procs off frostbolt.
So you basically keep spamming frostbolt, but with 15% chance per cast your Icicles cooldown gets reset.

If spamming single button and occasionally pressing another is too complex for you, then I think it is fine that you leave the server.
You completely missed the point. I am not saying that it is too complex for me, I am saying that vanilla is so popular because it is so simple that it has one button rotations that anyone can play and I don't tink there's anything bad about that. Changing that can slowly lead to playstyle of SoD and retail.

And saying "leave the server" to every newcomer who tries to provide their opinion and criticism is a great way to keep the newcomers away and let yours server slowly die ;)

Atreidon
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Atreidon » Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:19 am

The joker in me has to point out that to compensate for frost now requiring a second braincell to operate, fire has been dumbed down considerably :D

justtopost
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by justtopost » Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:39 pm

I can appreciate listening to feedback and adjusting coarse, but I personally am just not a fan of even these changes. The changes to the talents are just as egregious as the racials IMO. To me one of the greatest aspects of vanilla was the leveling experience and I feal the new skill trees nerf that to an unneeded degree. PVE is easy enough without the class buffs. If the devs wanted to change late game raid comps or demand class power creep for some reason then they should do it with gear/loot thats locked behind achievement not just giving a baseline buff to trees and talents and leave the leveling process alone. Also changing racials to balance PVP isn't going to bring new players like they hope as much as it will push current ones out.
I just don't get how so many sign up for and play for years on a vanilla server only to hate the main aspects of vanilla. Your welcome to love changes all you want but why play here when there are so many other alternative servers already with the changes you want for you to try out? Only to then act as if it is a crime against god when players express their opinion to want to keep enjoying what they have been. I really wish the devs kept there promise of keeping the spirit of vanilla or at least reconsider giving players a separate server with original trees and racials but with new pve content as originally advertised for those who want it.

Templar85
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Templar85 » Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:51 pm

I am saying that vanilla is so popular because it is so simple that it has one button rotations that anyone can play
There are several reasons why vanilla became popular in their time but having one button rotation wasn't the best thing game design philosophy. Game was popular because it had
  • Super visual and audio ambiance
  • Less punishing death recovery system than other popular MMO
  • Questing system and the world felt dangerous
  • Warcraft 3 created a super deep and interesting lore and WoW was able to continue it.
And many more just listing a few.

Back in the time when we were children and we have been carried on by the game visuals and atmosphere. Questing in Ashenvale for the first time, that's a memory we never forget. However there were so many flaws, mistakes in the the class design and talent tree because Blizzard team was in hurry to release the game. As a child I don't even recognised this things because I wasn't able to and second even I would not care because there was nowhere near any other MMO that was soo good as Wow.

We became adults (or man-child which is totally valid) and we see the flaws of the game. The more game design flaws in the game the less attention we can have on the atmosphere.

I think a good game should aim for a low skill floor but high skill ceiling system.
Floor is low so beginners can join easily because the rules are simple and you can be on the middle ground power level wise with the basic rotation BUT there should be an options if you are understand the talents well and you are more skilled, determined, putting more effort then you should be ahead of others who doing less of these.

After CC2 will be out you can still press 1 button if that's your preferred playstyle. There are so many guilds on the server where you can find likeminded mates easily.

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Ragetto
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Ragetto » Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:59 pm

Templar85 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:51 pm We became adults (or man-child which is totally valid) and we see the flaws of the game.
Well, by now you should also be able to see what made the game so enjoyable and capable of keeping adults engaged for years, in both PvE and PvP... it goes far beyond just atmosphere or nice graphics.

Simple rotations in PvE make sense because the real challenge isn’t individual performance; it’s getting dozens of players to synchronize toward a common goal.

In PvP, the game gets individually challenging, with situations that are much more varied and unpredictable.

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Nerhvhar
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Nerhvhar » Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:55 pm

Templar85 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:51 pm
I am saying that vanilla is so popular because it is so simple that it has one button rotations that anyone can play
There are several reasons why vanilla became popular in their time but having one button rotation wasn't the best thing game design philosophy. Game was popular because it had
  • Super visual and audio ambiance
  • Less punishing death recovery system than other popular MMO
  • Questing system and the world felt dangerous
  • Warcraft 3 created a super deep and interesting lore and WoW was able to continue it.
And many more just listing a few.

Back in the time when we were children and we have been carried on by the game visuals and atmosphere. Questing in Ashenvale for the first time, that's a memory we never forget. However there were so many flaws, mistakes in the the class design and talent tree because Blizzard team was in hurry to release the game. As a child I don't even recognised this things because I wasn't able to and second even I would not care because there was nowhere near any other MMO that was soo good as Wow.

We became adults (or man-child which is totally valid) and we see the flaws of the game. The more game design flaws in the game the less attention we can have on the atmosphere.

I think a good game should aim for a low skill floor but high skill ceiling system.
Floor is low so beginners can join easily because the rules are simple and you can be on the middle ground power level wise with the basic rotation BUT there should be an options if you are understand the talents well and you are more skilled, determined, putting more effort then you should be ahead of others who doing less of these.

After CC2 will be out you can still press 1 button if that's your preferred playstyle. There are so many guilds on the server where you can find likeminded mates easily.
Also it was 2004, it was simply one of the best game, it was online with a lot of people and a big open world satisfied_turtle_head

On the PC, there weren't really any games to compete with them neutral_turtle_head

I'm thinking of stopping following this topic as I see such absolutely disastrous opinions, comparing it to SoD or whatever when the vanilla classes are absolutely despicable, complaining about having to play with something other than a single button, although I can understand why people want simplicity - frankly, 2 or 3 spells in the rotation are within the reach of anyone with one hand wary_turtle_head

I'm looking forward to seeing the new client and this patch, where all the classes finally seem interesting, for a true vanilla+ that starts from the principle “what if blizzard hadn't released any other expansions but improved this one” hiding_smth_turtle_head

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Ragetto
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Ragetto » Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:00 pm

Nerhvhar wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:55 pmfrankly, 2 or 3 spells in the rotation are within the reach of anyone with one hand wary_turtle_head
Seriously, I’m curious: what class/spec can actually be played with just one button (even in PvE)? 🤔

Templar85
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Templar85 » Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:26 pm

I can appreciate listening to feedback and adjusting coarse, but I personally am just not a fan of even these changes. The changes to the talents are just as egregious as the racials IMO. To me one of the greatest aspects of vanilla was the leveling experience and I feal the new skill trees nerf that to an unneeded degree. PVE is easy enough without the class buffs. If the devs wanted to change late game raid comps or demand class power creep for some reason then they should do it with gear/loot thats locked behind achievement not just giving a baseline buff to trees and talents and leave the leveling process alone.
Only thing I can agree with you that the leveling in the outside world should not be boring easy after the patch. I suggest buff EVERY hostile mob HP/Dam/armor to feel the world as dangerous as before. Can buff dungeon and raid mobs bosses too.

Also changing racials to balance PVP isn't going to bring new players like they hope as much as it will push current ones out.

Racial changes was a must thing to do but instead nerfing the the good ones to the ground they should tone them down a little and give the lesser good ones much improvement or making a brand new. (I'm looking at you Whisp form as the most useless racial across all classes) Shadowmeld still not good in cc2.
I just don't get how so many sign up for and play for years on a vanilla server only to hate the main aspects of vanilla. Your welcome to love changes all you want but why play here when there are so many other alternative servers already with the changes you want for you to try out? Only to then act as if it is a crime against god when players express their opinion to want to keep enjoying what they have been. I really wish the devs kept there promise of keeping the spirit of vanilla or at least reconsider giving players a separate server with original trees and racials but with new pve content as originally advertised for those who want it.
I don't mind if they open a pure Vanilla server without ANY alternation from classic 2004 client, but I don't think it will be popular in 2024. Players who wanted nostalgia are already on the + servers and the new generation of young players are playing on Retail. In 2016 there was a huge market for pure vanilla but time has passed.

Xudo
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Xudo » Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:40 pm

Templar85 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:26 pm Only thing I can agree with you that the leveling in the outside world should not be boring easy after the patch. I suggest buff EVERY hostile mob HP/Dam/armor to feel the world as dangerous as before. Can buff dungeon and raid mobs bosses too.
World buffing won't help much because grey quests give XP. One can skip all challenge by doing quests in starting zones and stay 25 levels ahead of any mob outside.
Slow and steady has issues
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.

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Nerhvhar
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Nerhvhar » Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:14 pm

Ragetto wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:00 pm
Nerhvhar wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:55 pmfrankly, 2 or 3 spells in the rotation are within the reach of anyone with one hand wary_turtle_head
Seriously, I’m curious: what class/spec can actually be played with just one button (even in PvE)? 🤔
If I'm to believe thetruemeccs' post, the mages

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Anveena
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Anveena » Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:14 pm

Suggestion: NPCs in big cities should use emotes or text to recognize players passing by for their PVP ranks, titles achieved, and feats.

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Voodoochile
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Voodoochile » Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:41 am

Harkus wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:31 am
Voodoochile wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 8:23 pm
Harkus wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 12:58 pm The ''I donated so I get to decide the changes'' people are really something else... we donated because we love this server, not to become shareholders... thank you to the devs for keeping up this amazing server for so long and all the effort you're putting into the future turtle_in_love_head
I'm sure Blizzard thought the same thing in WoD, BFA, and Shadowlands
That would be idiotic of them because paying for access to a product is not at all the same as donating money out of appreciation. Again, giving Turtle money doesn't entitle you to anything other than shop rewards.
Except they tied appreciation with gameplay incentives as blizzard has. They rely on the whales monetarily as blizzard does. And the server pop will sadly suffer for this highly controversial patch. In neither case do you become a shareholder, but presuming that your audience will stay despite a blatant disregard to their feelings is always the pride before the fall
Avid Troll advocate. Give Trolls the ability to be Druids, damnit! The Loa command it!

Templar85
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Templar85 » Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:43 am

World buffing won't help much because grey quests give XP. One can skip all challenge by doing quests in starting zones and stay 25 levels ahead of any mob outside.
If somebody wants to choose the easy route then he/she can do it. My reply was a response to a poster who worried that if he wants to do the normal levelling (killing around same level mobs) still will be as challenging than before cc2? If the answers is yes then we kept the World in a boss status. If the levelling will be effortlessly easy because of the gained power increase from the reworked talents and spells then the World needs some buff.

The aim is to keep many doors open for levelling preferences.

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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Xudo » Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:07 am

Templar85 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:43 am
World buffing won't help much because grey quests give XP. One can skip all challenge by doing quests in starting zones and stay 25 levels ahead of any mob outside.
If somebody wants to choose the easy route then he/she can do it. My reply was a response to a poster who worried that if he wants to do the normal levelling (killing around same level mobs) still will be as challenging than before cc2? If the answers is yes then we kept the World in a boss status. If the levelling will be effortlessly easy because of the gained power increase from the reworked talents and spells then the World needs some buff.

The aim is to keep many doors open for levelling preferences.
That door is open then.
If you want your personal "challenge", then you can kill orange and red mobs. You can aswell grind elite mobs from level 15 or so. You can level in dungeons - always in group and always stick to elites and bosses.
It would be fun to see some elite area from level 1 for that purpose, but I don't know how to make it accessible for every race since lvl 1.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.

Czasku
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Czasku » Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:26 pm

Still no clue about what's the point of Warrior's Counterattack. We don't need another reactive ability and we already have Counterattack but its named god damn REVENGE.

Stop feeding us with dead talents.
People born in the 1990s are the first generation who did not get punched in the face for expressing their opinions.

mentium
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by mentium » Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:39 pm

Goodmorning,

maybe i'm wrong but i see an exploit for a Disc Priest, Searing light says "your damaging holy and disc criticals activate a free istant Smite and this effect has not CD". Holy nova is a cheap way to activate it.

With a build like this:
https://talents.turtle-wow.org/priest?p ... AAAAAAA%3D

You can have a bugdet and resilient spamming nova/smite almost istant cast char... that is Healing well Aoe with mobility, strong anti interrupt (shield) and damage mitigation (shield), that is generating fodder for dispels with "inspiration", "blessed recovery and concetnration" even under heavy pressure by warriors/rogue/hunters.

He just have to dispel self, cast nova/flash heal to trigger fodder/free Smite and run/jump hitting most chars... that have to follow him...

...moreover with just a budget/starting build he has reasonable spellpower crit and spirit regeneration (and even more if human).

Imho too strong just with a budget build... cant imagine in BG's.
Too many improvement comparing to the standard vanilla tree.. i add that i've played disc priest for years from vanilla until Wotlk reaching over 2400 arena rating...
Maybe i'm wrong, just my 2 cents of toughts.

Ty 4 attention and feedbacks.

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Ragetto
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Ragetto » Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:54 pm

mentium wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:39 pmmaybe i'm wrong but i see an exploit for a Disc Priest, Searing light says "your damaging holy and disc criticals activate a free istant Smite and this effect has not CD". Holy nova is a cheap way to activate it.
Shhh, keep that to yourself... I was planning to test it out by spamming Holy Nova Rank 1 turtle_tongue_head

mentium
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by mentium » Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:07 pm

Too late... Pandora's Box was opened yet! ^^


Seriously even with max rank and that boost to spirit, intelligence and spirit regen, and reduced istant costs it would be difficoult drain all mana!

...even shield now give it back!
it refound 25%, adding the 10% discount real cost is 65% and it's efficency is a lot improved with boosts and the new scaling power.

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Zvyrhol
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Zvyrhol » Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:52 pm

Though Holy Nova generates threat it was in fact indirectly buffed in these patch notes. All priests will get free 120-150 spell damage just from new Inner Fire and 2 talents. It scales very well on this server.

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Daoc2001
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Daoc2001 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:43 am

A second EU PvE server (or a first NA one) should be launched with this patch & proper population caps placed on server(s), as the current EU server is overpopulated in the open world with lvl 60's camping everything everywhere for AH sales. It's basically unplayable unless you want to spend 10x longer to complete quests while leveling as raid geared 60's scoop up every mob in sight in lower level zones. It's ridiculous.

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Daedalus007
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Daedalus007 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:00 am

I said it before and I'll say it again, I'm hoping that these class changes can be delayed for a bit while the rest of the patch rolls out. They are far too drastic and comprehensive to just drop onto the playerbase without significant ramifications.

These changes have gone from reasonable to outright Season of Discovery levels of insanity. Enough is enough. If it were me I'd delay the patch until Dec 1st to give a full month of properly testing, tuning, and feedback on the class changes stuff in particular but I know the nolifer nerds demanding new content all the time (only to finish it all in a week) would be upset by that.

A majority of players never post on forums, never use Discord, and don't even bother with the website after downloading the client. I feel they need to be reached with an open dev process/poll system for class changes IMHO.

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Voodoochile
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Voodoochile » Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:09 am

Daedalus007 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:00 am I said it before and I'll say it again, I'm hoping that these class changes can be delayed for a bit while the rest of the patch rolls out. They are far too drastic and comprehensive to just drop onto the playerbase without significant ramifications.

These changes have gone from reasonable to outright Season of Discovery levels of insanity. Enough is enough. If it were me I'd delay the patch until Dec 1st to give a full month of properly testing, tuning, and feedback on the class changes stuff in particular but I know the nolifer nerds demanding new content all the time (only to finish it all in a week) would be upset by that.

A majority of players never post on forums, never use Discord, and don't even bother with the website after downloading the client. I feel they need to be reached with an open dev process/poll system for class changes IMHO.
It is too late, sadly. The echo chamber has convinced themselves that these are changes the community wants, and that this patch will be loved and accepted by the community. Flawless. The insinuation that they faulter from the expectations of the community they have cultivated is simply #nochanges boomers, obviously. All that is left now if for the reality to set in.
Avid Troll advocate. Give Trolls the ability to be Druids, damnit! The Loa command it!

Ashton007
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Ashton007 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:53 pm

Regarding shadow priest changes.. blackout should be either a 15% proc chance if we’re going to nerf its duration or make the cost 3 talent points. It’s our only cc other than fear and it costs 5 talent points. Also I think vampiric touch needs a cooldown reduction to offset the 2 sec cast time which is already steep for a spell that does no dps. if it is resisted it’s going to be quite painful. I can’t really wrap my head around nerfing our cc in PvP when shit like rogues exist. They can cc you for what? 35 seconds? and ppl are really upset that priests MIGHT stun you for 3 seconds? Seems based, the rest looks good though.

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Ragetto
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Ragetto » Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:10 pm

Ashton007 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:53 pm Regarding shadow priest changes.. blackout should be either a 15% proc chance if we’re going to nerf its duration or make the cost 3 talent points. It’s our only cc other than fear and it costs 5 talent points. Also I think vampiric touch needs a cooldown reduction to offset the 2 sec cast time which is already steep for a spell that does no dps. if it is resisted it’s going to be quite painful. I can’t really wrap my head around nerfing our cc in PvP when shit like rogues exist. They can cc you for what? 35 seconds? and ppl are really upset that priests MIGHT stun you for 3 seconds? Seems based, the rest looks good though.
I guess people are less bothered by controlled stuns from rogues (which have always been a core part of their gameplay) than by random stuns, which happen unpredictably and require no effort.

To me, it’s not even true cc, since the SP doesn’t control when it happens, a bit like the random stun proc from concussive shot (hunter).

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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Grizb37 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:20 pm

Ashton007 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:53 pm Regarding shadow priest changes.. blackout should be either a 15% proc chance if we’re going to nerf its duration or make the cost 3 talent points. It’s our only cc other than fear and it costs 5 talent points. Also I think vampiric touch needs a cooldown reduction to offset the 2 sec cast time which is already steep for a spell that does no dps. if it is resisted it’s going to be quite painful. I can’t really wrap my head around nerfing our cc in PvP when shit like rogues exist. They can cc you for what? 35 seconds? and ppl are really upset that priests MIGHT stun you for 3 seconds? Seems based, the rest looks good though.
SP is one of the most busted classes in PvP. I'm glad the Devs nerfed it. Imo I would remove blackout and just make it a 3 second stun with a 2 min cool down only usable in shadow form.

Ashton007
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Ashton007 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:59 pm

Grizb37 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:20 pm
Ashton007 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:53 pm Regarding shadow priest changes.. blackout should be either a 15% proc chance if we’re going to nerf its duration or make the cost 3 talent points. It’s our only cc other than fear and it costs 5 talent points. Also I think vampiric touch needs a cooldown reduction to offset the 2 sec cast time which is already steep for a spell that does no dps. if it is resisted it’s going to be quite painful. I can’t really wrap my head around nerfing our cc in PvP when shit like rogues exist. They can cc you for what? 35 seconds? and ppl are really upset that priests MIGHT stun you for 3 seconds? Seems based, the rest looks good though.
SP is one of the most busted classes in PvP. I'm glad the Devs nerfed it. Imo I would remove blackout and just make it a 3 second stun with a 2 min cool down only usable in shadow form.
It’s one of… but yet it looks like it’s the only one receiving pvp nerfs. That’s why I say it’s kind of based. Warlock paladin rogues and shamans handle the shit out of shadow priests. And 3/4 have more reliable cc. Priests don’t really parse in pve so it seems silly to dull us in the area we shine most. Just saying

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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Ragetto » Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:17 pm

Ashton007 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:59 pmIt’s one of… but yet it looks like it’s the only one receiving pvp nerfs
It doesn’t seem like you’re aware of what’s happening with other classes.

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Nerhvhar
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Nerhvhar » Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:55 pm

Ashton007 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:53 pm Regarding shadow priest changes.. blackout should be either a 15% proc chance if we’re going to nerf its duration or make the cost 3 talent points. It’s our only cc other than fear and it costs 5 talent points. Also I think vampiric touch needs a cooldown reduction to offset the 2 sec cast time which is already steep for a spell that does no dps. if it is resisted it’s going to be quite painful. I can’t really wrap my head around nerfing our cc in PvP when shit like rogues exist. They can cc you for what? 35 seconds? and ppl are really upset that priests MIGHT stun you for 3 seconds? Seems based, the rest looks good though.
Nah it looks good like that satisfied_turtle_head

Baculek
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Baculek » Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:45 am

Dont get me wrong, hunter melee rework is great! But I'm very disappointed by the fact you force us to use 2h, instead of DW, with all attacks now scaling off main weapon % dmg, makes no sense to just play DW now, if spamming wing clip with 2h will be just more dmg than 2 aas from DW. You all know precisely, that the role model of melee hunter is Rexxar, who is dual-wielding, though you still force hunters to go 2h, I agree with the point that it's hard to work around with talents, but maybe just adding a talent similar to old Aspect of Wolf, removing ability to use 2h weapons, but adding extra flat dmg to your melee spells? It will counter-part low % on damage and make DW enjoyers viable? or you dont want extra classes to roll on 1h? so rogues and warriors dont cry?

Baculek
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Re: Patch 1.17.2 — Class & Gameplay Changes

Post by Baculek » Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:48 am

Ashton007 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:53 pm Regarding shadow priest changes.. blackout should be either a 15% proc chance if we’re going to nerf its duration or make the cost 3 talent points. It’s our only cc other than fear and it costs 5 talent points. Also I think vampiric touch needs a cooldown reduction to offset the 2 sec cast time which is already steep for a spell that does no dps. if it is resisted it’s going to be quite painful. I can’t really wrap my head around nerfing our cc in PvP when shit like rogues exist. They can cc you for what? 35 seconds? and ppl are really upset that priests MIGHT stun you for 3 seconds? Seems based, the rest looks good though.
Some classes dont have stun at all... and will trade 5 talent points to get it from every spell cast, especially dots... it should go to 1 second or be removed and done as paladin stun, imagine lol

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