Please try to compromise with players
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Please try to compromise with players
Hello again fellow hunters,
I have come to terms with devs making these big changes in the next patch. However, I still think that they should strongly consider the feedback given by players here in the forums and on discord, particularly when it comes to changes that affected the old way of playing the classes and specs.
"Our philosophy has always been focusing on enhancing and polishing the existing identity of classes and specializations, rather than reworking or replacing them entirely. As fun as some more wacky concepts may be, we want to keep true to the identity of vanilla classes. This means smaller and less drastic changes overall, which should culminate in a healthy meta allowing each class and specialization to shine in their own way."
This feels like it hasn't been the case right now with the new patch coming in a few days. I think that they should at least try to reach a compromise with players that liked things the way they were before. That would make a strong case on why Turtle WoW is different from the rest of the private servers out there on how devs communicate with and respect the playerbase.
Some of the changes I have heard before (and which I agree with the most) that players have not been very happy about include:
1. Changes to Viper Sting
2. Removing Counterattack
3. Changes to Wing Clip (this should no longer an issue since the CD will be reduced to 3sec)
4. Changes to Mongoose Bite
5. Big overhaul on Surv tree and how strongly tied it is to "Melee Hunter" (what about BM?)
6. Removing Wyvern Sting
7. New scaling talents for Surv and BM trees are not very "vanilla" (related to point 5)
I hope in the future that these changes will be reconsidered (not necessarily reverted, of course, but perhaps adjusted) to try to make all players happy.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I have come to terms with devs making these big changes in the next patch. However, I still think that they should strongly consider the feedback given by players here in the forums and on discord, particularly when it comes to changes that affected the old way of playing the classes and specs.
"Our philosophy has always been focusing on enhancing and polishing the existing identity of classes and specializations, rather than reworking or replacing them entirely. As fun as some more wacky concepts may be, we want to keep true to the identity of vanilla classes. This means smaller and less drastic changes overall, which should culminate in a healthy meta allowing each class and specialization to shine in their own way."
This feels like it hasn't been the case right now with the new patch coming in a few days. I think that they should at least try to reach a compromise with players that liked things the way they were before. That would make a strong case on why Turtle WoW is different from the rest of the private servers out there on how devs communicate with and respect the playerbase.
Some of the changes I have heard before (and which I agree with the most) that players have not been very happy about include:
1. Changes to Viper Sting
2. Removing Counterattack
3. Changes to Wing Clip (this should no longer an issue since the CD will be reduced to 3sec)
4. Changes to Mongoose Bite
5. Big overhaul on Surv tree and how strongly tied it is to "Melee Hunter" (what about BM?)
6. Removing Wyvern Sting
7. New scaling talents for Surv and BM trees are not very "vanilla" (related to point 5)
I hope in the future that these changes will be reconsidered (not necessarily reverted, of course, but perhaps adjusted) to try to make all players happy.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
Viper sting should stay nerfed. Wing Clip should have CD. It is good that people should level Marksmanship instead of Survival to be good in ranged DPS.
Hunters were reworked for a reason. And whine on the forums is not a reason for massive rollback.
Hunters were reworked for a reason. And whine on the forums is not a reason for massive rollback.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
That’s the only point you’re actually right about.
As for the rest, you’re, as usual, talking nonsense about hunters - a class you don’t understand but that clearly gives you a hard time (probably not a coincidence).
Re: Please try to compromise with players
Funny thing is that after this patch, I can state that you don't understand hunters too.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
He plays a warrior.
And main a 19 twink (lol).
So he is very happy with the new melee-huntard build, and can't understand what it takes to shine with a PVP hunter because he shines mostly with 3 buttons and enchants against 3 buttons grey lvl 15.
so leave him alone :-)
Re: Please try to compromise with players
At least, that statement is consistent with everything you’ve ever said on that topic.
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Re: Please try to compromise with players
The class change council is filled with some of the most dedicated and tenured players on the server who have spent months and months working on this with the devs. While they read forum suggestions, I'm guessing it's primarily just a numbers game and finalizing balancing at this point.
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Re: Please try to compromise with players
Why exactly?
And what part exactly made you think I was whining?
Yes, they reworked for a reason. It doesn't mean that it was a good reason.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
Yes, that sums thing up nicely.therealrexxar wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:26 pm Hello again fellow hunters,
I have come to terms with devs making these big changes in the next patch. However, I still think that they should strongly consider the feedback given by players here in the forums and on discord, particularly when it comes to changes that affected the old way of playing the classes and specs.
"Our philosophy has always been focusing on enhancing and polishing the existing identity of classes and specializations, rather than reworking or replacing them entirely. As fun as some more wacky concepts may be, we want to keep true to the identity of vanilla classes. This means smaller and less drastic changes overall, which should culminate in a healthy meta allowing each class and specialization to shine in their own way."
This feels like it hasn't been the case right now with the new patch coming in a few days. I think that they should at least try to reach a compromise with players that liked things the way they were before. That would make a strong case on why Turtle WoW is different from the rest of the private servers out there on how devs communicate with and respect the playerbase.
Some of the changes I have heard before (and which I agree with the most) that players have not been very happy about include:
1. Changes to Viper Sting
2. Removing Counterattack
3. Changes to Wing Clip (this should no longer an issue since the CD will be reduced to 3sec)
4. Changes to Mongoose Bite
5. Big overhaul on Surv tree and how strongly tied it is to "Melee Hunter" (what about BM?)
6. Removing Wyvern Sting
7. New scaling talents for Surv and BM trees are not very "vanilla" (related to point 5)
I hope in the future that these changes will be reconsidered (not necessarily reverted, of course, but perhaps adjusted) to try to make all players happy.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Points 2 - 6 are actually one single big point: This stuff was introduced for the new melee dps hunter.
Melee for hunters was considered something to be avoided:
enemy comes too close -> Wing Clip/ trap (either due to good planning or with FD)
If Wing Clip/trap isn't enough -> Raptor Strike/ Mongoose bite.
The survival tree enhanced this concept, it was not for playing a "rogue with a pet" or a "warrior with a pet", at least after some very, very early patch that only very few people remember.
I understand that some people are happy about the upcoming melee hunter but there are many players who simply don't care. I wouldn't play a melee hunter for the same reason I wouldn't play an undead, alliance in general or specifically a paladin: I don't care for that stuff but I don't mind if others do.
So, a compromise could be:
1) Put your melee hunter into the game if you feel that you have to.
2) Keep your hands off existing builds and abilities while doing so.
Ways to do this have been discussed.
On top of all my recent complains, I have to add however: some of the announced changes actually are very good, like scaling for trueshot aura and giving some pet families some love. Sadly, the criticisms mentioned above outweigh the good stuff for me.
From a lore point, people could argue that the BM tree could be turned into a melee tree, but wouldn't feel right, either.
Crazy idea:
Add melee stuff to all talent trees and add more baseline melee abilities which share cooldowns with their ranged counterparts. For example, Barrage could enhance both multishot and carve, but hunters would still be forced to choose between one of these due to combined cooldowns. On top of that, the AP formula for hunters could be modified so that a melee hunter would benefit more from strength than agility.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
We read that everywhere and its just a lie. Prove me wrong.Drubarrymooer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:38 pm The class change council is filled with some of the most dedicated and tenured players on the server who have spent months and months working on this with the devs. While they read forum suggestions, I'm guessing it's primarily just a numbers game and finalizing balancing at this point.
If it is not a lie we are just waiting to have "the most dedicated and tenured" PVP hunters of Tutlewow to finally have the guts to come here and answer us about their new Survival tree and wingclip changes.
Maybe there's something absolutely huge that we have all missed but they don't. Maybe we arent enlightened, experienced and skilled enough to fully understand the new melee huntard meta they have cooked for us... hum hum
Last edited by metahunt on Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
I'm just curious why devs didn't move this talent one tier below but instead they removed it completely.
The devil is in the detail.
Alterac Valley Changes
Sunnyglade Valley FIX
Shellcoin is mathematically doomed!
Alterac Valley Changes
Sunnyglade Valley FIX
Shellcoin is mathematically doomed!
Re: Please try to compromise with players
You think that taunting class council members is good idea? Or that you express yourself as person capable for negotiation?metahunt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:50 pmWe read that everywhere and its just a lie. Prove me wrong.Drubarrymooer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:38 pm The class change council is filled with some of the most dedicated and tenured players on the server who have spent months and months working on this with the devs. While they read forum suggestions, I'm guessing it's primarily just a numbers game and finalizing balancing at this point.
If it is not a lie we are just waiting to have "the most dedicated and tenured" PVP hunters of Tutlewow to finally have the guts to come here and answer us about their new Survival tree and wingclip changes.
Maybe there's something absolutely huge that we have all missed but they don't. Maybe we arent enlightened, experienced and skilled enough to fully understand the new melee huntard meta they have cooked for us... hum hum
Your taunt is cheap. You won't get any constructive feedback this way.
I believe turtle devs expected that people will be upset for some particular things. If you show disappointment because of them, then it means "everything goes as they planned".
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
You're right that we should take care when choosing our tone on the forum, be it toward the devs or towards other players.
However, deliberately choosing to alienate a part of the existing playerbase is questionable behaviour at best, even if this is a free service.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
Where are the hunters happy with the survival tree and new melee-huntard meta?
Where is the poll on which we were asked to give our opinion?
Its not just "a part of the existing playerbase" that is upset right now, its the large majority of hunters that read their plans. And certainly alll PVP hunters that loved their Survival-MM build which was fine and dint need a major destruction.
If we wanted to play a different game we wouldn't be on a vanilla server, we would be on wow Ascension.
And I think it is not normal that no ones still knows who that "council" is, and who decided to do this to our class.
SO yes I taunt. Because I am disgusted as this goes live in 3 days and we are being ignored and never received a clear answer to our rants by the devs or the council " of best players on the server" that nobody knows if they exists and who they are.
My conviction is that no serious skilled hunter would ever have proposed such stupid changes. And that nothing of this was properly tested in PVP.
Where is the poll on which we were asked to give our opinion?
Its not just "a part of the existing playerbase" that is upset right now, its the large majority of hunters that read their plans. And certainly alll PVP hunters that loved their Survival-MM build which was fine and dint need a major destruction.
If we wanted to play a different game we wouldn't be on a vanilla server, we would be on wow Ascension.
And I think it is not normal that no ones still knows who that "council" is, and who decided to do this to our class.
SO yes I taunt. Because I am disgusted as this goes live in 3 days and we are being ignored and never received a clear answer to our rants by the devs or the council " of best players on the server" that nobody knows if they exists and who they are.
My conviction is that no serious skilled hunter would ever have proposed such stupid changes. And that nothing of this was properly tested in PVP.
Last edited by metahunt on Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
Of course "serious skilled hunter" would not ask to nerf his class. Only buff. Moar numbers, please.
But there are a lot of other classes which feel that hunters were overpowered.
And most overpowered outliers were spammable slow and spammable mana burn dot. They are nerfed (by adding CD) and it is good.
But there are a lot of other classes which feel that hunters were overpowered.
And most overpowered outliers were spammable slow and spammable mana burn dot. They are nerfed (by adding CD) and it is good.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
The few pre-1.17.2 melee huntards are happy, I guess.
I tried out the talent calculator to see what kind of melee build I might try, and my main takeaway is that... honestly, it might be fun to play, but the tree is pretty poorly designed. Every talent is a must-have if you want to go melee, so you end up using almost all your points in the """""Survival""""" tree. There’s no real choice involved and very few interesting combinations with the other trees (BM or MM).
There’s really no point in trying an hybrid approach because the melee side is already packed with essential talents.
Before 1.17.2, even though in the end some popular templates emerged, you still had to sacrifice specific talents based on your needs, play style, gear, context(PvE/PvP) etc. You could blend them with other trees in a way that worked for you. Now? It’s just about clicking through every necessary talent without any real decision-making.
It’s truly a tree designed for brainless melee huntards.
Classic PvP hunter (0-21-30):
https://talents.turtle-wow.org/hunter?p ... bAAgAAA%3D
PvP BM/MM hunter (30-21-0):
https://talents.turtle-wow.org/hunter?p ... AAAAAAA%3D
PvP melee huntard (0-6-45):
https://talents.turtle-wow.org/hunter?p ... bIQoBAA%3D
(edit: you can still try grabbing 'Improved Primal Aspect' for the regen while in Aspect of the Wolf... but that's it)
https://talents.turtle-wow.org/hunter?p ... bIQgBAA%3D
You can almost imagine the type of players who’ll go for one build or the other.
Last edited by Ragetto on Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:57 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
Not a single hunter has asked for buffs. And (almost) no one has ever asked for it to be nerfed.Xudo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:00 am Of course "serious skilled hunter" would not ask to nerf his class. Only buff. Moar numbers, please.
But there are a lot of other classes which feel that hunters were overpowered.
And most overpowered outliers were spammable slow and spammable mana burn dot. They are nerfed (by adding CD) and it is good.
Anyone who think hunters are "overpowered" (in general, not just in specific situations) is usually a very low-geared/skilled player. Guaranteed.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
What kind of skill you need to counter Wingclip spam?
What kind of skill you need to counter Viper Sting spam?
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
What kind of hunter would "spam" Wing Clip except to save their life and get out of the dead zone?
If a hunter is spamming Wing Clip, it’s because they keep getting parried or dodged, probably while taking hits in close combat. Hunters don't want to be in a situation where they have to spam Wing Clip!
Of course, occasionally they might spam it across multiple targets (in very specific cases - like helping a flag carrier escape in WSG with no useful cooldowns up), but most hunters won’t do this.
Multiple classes can dispel it, and when they do, the hunter ends up wasting more mana than they drained - especially since hunters don’t have much to begin with. If they’re just spamming, they’ll be out of mana faster than their target, so in a way, the cooldown prevents clueless hunters from ooming themselves...
I can say this as a PvP healing priest who faces a lot of hunters in BGs. Viper Sting is annoying, sure, but there’s always a way to mitigate its impact.
Basic mana management, using potions/teas only at the end of the drain (rather than mid-drain if you’re about to be oom), keeping good positioning (LOS + make sure teammates are between you and the hunters), and asking for dispels or killing pets so you can regen a few ticks (ideally as often as possible during fights). Don’t want to get drained by hunters? Stay alert and always keep an eye on them, where they are, where they’re going, and if they’re targeting you.
These are many little differences between mediocre and good players. But with no actual PvP experience (like high-level arenas pre-Twow), it’s easy to overlook 80% of these details.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
Regarding Wing Clip. Now there are melee hunters. They are interested in staying melee. Now you have few ways to get away from them.
Also, class trinkets which remove slow and immobilisation are not effective against slow spammers. You get another slow in the next second. With some CD, it is possible to get to distance if you play it right.
You can dispel viper sting, but meanwhile you can autoshoot and your pet can autoattack.
And you propose to use consumables even for classes which can dispel it by regular spell.
This is why it is overpowered and should stay nerfed.
Meanwhile, you also have Carve, which can damage enemies in your deadzone. and you still whine.
Also, class trinkets which remove slow and immobilisation are not effective against slow spammers. You get another slow in the next second. With some CD, it is possible to get to distance if you play it right.
You can dispel viper sting, but meanwhile you can autoshoot and your pet can autoattack.
And you propose to use consumables even for classes which can dispel it by regular spell.
This is why it is overpowered and should stay nerfed.
Meanwhile, you also have Carve, which can damage enemies in your deadzone. and you still whine.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
- Reploidrocsa
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Re: Please try to compromise with players
I want to add, the class change council not only has the most dedicated players and theorycrafters, both from PVE and PVP, they also have the dev team which has a wider picture of their project. So changes are a mix of a knowledgable playerbase, coding capabilities and admin views on the project as a wholeDrubarrymooer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:38 pm The class change council is filled with some of the most dedicated and tenured players on the server who have spent months and months working on this with the devs. While they read forum suggestions, I'm guessing it's primarily just a numbers game and finalizing balancing at this point.
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Re: Please try to compromise with players
I find it hard to believe that dedicated hunter players would be fine with changing the whole Survival tree in favor of a whole new tree that has this much impact for the rest of the class. But yeah, I'm not getting my hopes up about this topic. I think it would be in their interest as well to keep the players that are not happy with the changes.Drubarrymooer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:38 pm The class change council is filled with some of the most dedicated and tenured players on the server who have spent months and months working on this with the devs. While they read forum suggestions, I'm guessing it's primarily just a numbers game and finalizing balancing at this point.
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Re: Please try to compromise with players
Most of these "topics" are complaint filled threads and not well articulated. The well articulated threads, like the one about racials, were indeed looked at and changed a bit.therealrexxar wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:42 pmI find it hard to believe that dedicated hunter players would be fine with changing the whole Survival tree in favor of a whole new tree that has this much impact for the rest of the class. But yeah, I'm not getting my hopes up about this topic. I think it would be in their interest as well to keep the players that are not happy with the changes.Drubarrymooer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:38 pm The class change council is filled with some of the most dedicated and tenured players on the server who have spent months and months working on this with the devs. While they read forum suggestions, I'm guessing it's primarily just a numbers game and finalizing balancing at this point.
The class change council didn't do things willy nilly. Hunters worked together for this. Further it was all theorycrafted then mathed out. I've yet to see a hunter thread that wasn't just complaining.
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Re: Please try to compromise with players
Viper Sting is useless ability now. Its throaway from panel skill. It should be changed to be a physical undispellable debuff + have a cast time, or be stackable poison so could not be dispelled instantly.
Wing Clip 3 sec cd with new talent looking fine for now.
Counterattack should stay with hunters.
Trap Mastery should be moved to upper rows as long as range increase talent.
Wing Clip 3 sec cd with new talent looking fine for now.
Counterattack should stay with hunters.
Trap Mastery should be moved to upper rows as long as range increase talent.
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Re: Please try to compromise with players
Use Free Action potion. Use Powerfull Antivenom.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
We have fixed the balance issue which resulted from the balance changes we did.
You don't see pro-melee hunters on the forums cause there aren't many of them. Someone who loves melee hunter would not play wow; or at least not have the expectation to play it as a melee hunter.
Survival was always a utility and the people pushing for it to be melee were always a minority; i imagine there were some devs among them, otherwise this would have never flied.
the devs always said this is vanilla+ and now the talents reflect that too: disc priest, sub rogue, surv hunter, enh shaman, holy paladin have all been altered beyond their original design or purpose.
Whether it pays off or not we will see. I imagine the asian servers reacted favorably to them; since they are probably the biggest doners.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
Yeah. Be a paladin. Good advice.Diablowjob wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:21 pmUse Free Action potion. Use Powerfull Antivenom.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
Experienced PvP hunters point out that the -poorly designed- melee tree negatively impacts other specs (at least in PvP), and you respond with 'be glad you have Carve' - a purely melee ability. You’re so off base, it’s insane.
The rest is more of the same (special mention to the OP pet that auto-attacks).
Re: Please try to compromise with players
I completely understand that they have their own vision for the game. It’s their project, and they can do as they want. That’s fine.Reploidrocsa wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:38 pmI want to add, the class change council not only has the most dedicated players and theorycrafters, both from PVE and PVP, they also have the dev team which has a wider picture of their project. So changes are a mix of a knowledgable playerbase, coding capabilities and admin views on the project as a whole
But I’ll never believe they actually consulted experienced PvP players (which ones?) for CC2.
The features in Twow clearly show their lack of interest in PvP (which I think is a shame, but so be it), and CC2 highlights how clueless they are on this topic.
Re: Please try to compromise with players
I despise talking about balance changes
i just want to point out that Ragetto is an experienced Hunter - player in general!
i just want to point out that Ragetto is an experienced Hunter - player in general!
Re: Please try to compromise with players
I highly doubt changes made to Hunter were made by experienced PvP Hunters. In my opinion Hunter received the worst changes to PvP from all classes.
I don't know this class well but I have faced them a lot in battlegrounds - Hunter is the enemy I know. I know Hunter's weak and strong points. They are very efficient with draining mana and keeping enemy at bay with Wing Clip, sometimes they even shine with slowing everyone, traps are good too if in good hands, same for Wyvern Sting.
If you think about it, all strong points about Hunter are about their extremely effective annoyance in PvP. My impression after the changes is that PvP CC2 council hated Hunters for their annoyance so they decided to nerf every annoying part of their toolkit.
Viper Sting seems to be useless now, at least in group fights where it used to be effective.
Wing Clip with 3 seconds CD makes Hunter vulnerable in close fights - this is game changing because it has never been a problem, all Hunters already know they will have hard time defending against Rogues/Warriors or other melees.
Talents spent on traps are changed a bit I think (correct me if I'm wrong).
Wyvern Sting is completely gone, I know it wasn't used a lot but some people used it in PvP.
I don't play Hunter but these nerfs seem to be massive in PvP for me, Priest the observer.
I observe that devs and CC2 council decided to transfer Hunter's PvP strong points from useful (and annoying) toolkit to pure brainless DPS which is bad, I think all PvPers can agree here.
Why was Hunter hurt so much? It's not clear who made mistake. Devs, CC2 council non-Hunters. Or maybe there were indeed 0 PvP Hunters in the council.
I don't know this class well but I have faced them a lot in battlegrounds - Hunter is the enemy I know. I know Hunter's weak and strong points. They are very efficient with draining mana and keeping enemy at bay with Wing Clip, sometimes they even shine with slowing everyone, traps are good too if in good hands, same for Wyvern Sting.
If you think about it, all strong points about Hunter are about their extremely effective annoyance in PvP. My impression after the changes is that PvP CC2 council hated Hunters for their annoyance so they decided to nerf every annoying part of their toolkit.
Viper Sting seems to be useless now, at least in group fights where it used to be effective.
Wing Clip with 3 seconds CD makes Hunter vulnerable in close fights - this is game changing because it has never been a problem, all Hunters already know they will have hard time defending against Rogues/Warriors or other melees.
Talents spent on traps are changed a bit I think (correct me if I'm wrong).
Wyvern Sting is completely gone, I know it wasn't used a lot but some people used it in PvP.
I don't play Hunter but these nerfs seem to be massive in PvP for me, Priest the observer.
I observe that devs and CC2 council decided to transfer Hunter's PvP strong points from useful (and annoying) toolkit to pure brainless DPS which is bad, I think all PvPers can agree here.
Why was Hunter hurt so much? It's not clear who made mistake. Devs, CC2 council non-Hunters. Or maybe there were indeed 0 PvP Hunters in the council.
The devil is in the detail.
Alterac Valley Changes
Sunnyglade Valley FIX
Shellcoin is mathematically doomed!
Alterac Valley Changes
Sunnyglade Valley FIX
Shellcoin is mathematically doomed!
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Re: Please try to compromise with players
I main pvp hunter (or at least I did) and I think Zvyrhol is exactly right. At this point I'm confident that either the people making the changes dont play PvP at all or dont give a shit about any sort of class balance.