1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

[Healingrain]

I'm a bit concerned to see some very weak / niche items such as green dragonscale & rapid evolution being nerfed. While meditation is a extremely powerful stat, it derives its absurd potential from stacking multiple sources of it with high spirit. Each item compounding the others. So id question if the stat shouldn't rather have a deminishing return to disincentivizing stacking it to ridiculous levels.

One way to do so would be to change it to be a percentage of the still blocked mana regeneration. e.g. "Allows 5% of your manaregeneration supressed by spellcasting to continue" (e.g. the second piece would only grant you further 4.75% manaregen, (5% of the 95% manaregeneration still supressed etc.))

The point that I believe has been sorely missed by everyone responding to me is "Why is Meditation even a stat at all?"

It performs the exact same function as MP5, increases mana regeneration while casting. It's just harder for the devs to tune because instead of being completely linear, it becomes a moving target where you can accumulate a critical mass of mana regen if they slip up.

If Mp5 is a weak stat, the solution isn't to supplant it with a new stat that accomplishes the same function. The solution is to fundamentally question how much Mp5 is consuming the itemization budget of items with it and buff the items accordingly.

[Atreidon]

Mp5 & meditation have fundamentally different target audiences. Each class has a different spirit to mana conversion. Whereas mp5 is static in all aspects.

Meditation at least offers you some interesting considrrations in gameplay & gearing as its value changes depending on class and playstile (if you stopcast a bunch, you regularly fall out of the 5 second rule and gain no benefit from meditation for short amounts of time)

It also offers tradeoff where either more meditation or more raw spirit can be better at various breakpoints.

Whereas mp5 is completely uninterractable and boring

[Healingrain]

Mp5 & meditation have fundamentally different target audiences. Each class has a different spirit to mana conversion. Whereas mp5 is static in all aspects.

Wow, if only there were some stat we could put on an item for the classes that benefit from Spirit like uhh I don't know SPIRIT maybe?! If I was really smart I might put it on their tier gear and give other classes MP5.

Meditation at least offers you some interesting considrrations in gameplay & gearing as its value changes depending on class and playstile (if you stopcast a bunch, you regularly fall out of the 5 second rule and gain no benefit from meditation for short amounts of time)

This accounting for playstyle already existed in Vanilla! If you regularly fall out of the 5 second rule you will get dramatically more regen building Spirit than you do MP5! If you aren't doing that, build MP5. That's why Meditation as a stat is superfluous, you already had these options.

It also offers tradeoff where either more meditation or more raw spirit can be better at various breakpoints.

Only correct part of the entire post. It gives the spreadsheet people something to fuss over I guess.

In my opinion I think it is needless complexity and a minor balancing design burden for the team, remove it.

[Atreidon]

Mp5 & meditation have fundamentally different target audiences. Each class has a different spirit to mana conversion. Whereas mp5 is static in all aspects.

Wow, if only there were some stat we could put on an item for the classes that benefit from Spirit like uhh I don't know SPIRIT maybe?! If I was really smart I might put it on their tier gear and give other classes MP5.

Meditation at least offers you some interesting considrrations in gameplay & gearing as its value changes depending on class and playstile (if you stopcast a bunch, you regularly fall out of the 5 second rule and gain no benefit from meditation for short amounts of time)

This accounting for playstyle already existed in Vanilla! If you regularly fall out of the 5 second rule you will get dramatically more regen building Spirit than you do MP5! If you aren't doing that, build MP5. That's why Meditation as a stat is superfluous, you already had these options.

It also offers tradeoff where either more meditation or more raw spirit can be better at various breakpoints.

Only correct part of the entire post. It gives the spreadsheet people something to fuss over I guess.

In my opinion I think it is needless complexity and a minor balancing design burden for the team, remove it.

The whole point is that not every class should get the same amount of mana. Paladins & Shamans both are way more efficient with their mana, but their mana will only ever go down. While priests & druids have more tools to regenerate mana mid combat. By target nerfing/ removing meditation as a paasive stat, you guarantee only darkmoon card blue dragon being mandatory (especially with t3.5 likely having even more spirit)

[Rowrow213]

Is there any chance that you all can post the items with dates on when they were added to the post? That way we don't have to scrub the whole post in case we want to know if something new is getting changed.

[Elleshar]

• Atiesh (Druid): Class special aura changed from 11 MP5 to 2% Haste. Feral Attack Power increased from 420 to 600. Now also grants 150 Spellpower similiar to the Priest version.

Kind of a wierd choice lorewise and gameplay wise to change medivh's staff from bis for resto to ferals druids instead, spellpower and haste benefits balance too but the fap increase makes it pretty much a feral prio.
Haste aura while nice makes it not desirable for druids running deep resto or treeform.

[Calli]

Pls remove profession requirements from armaments. It is never good to keep them like that.

[Venaven]

Good changes, but I have a question: Will the resilience changes be applied to rank 13/14 gear? It could finally be worthwhile, then.

[Rowrow213]

"How are we going to fix paladins bringing dungeon items into Naxx? I know! Let's nerf everything they use!" -Turtle Itemization team

[Yzzzzzz]

Breath of Solnius: Now has a 15 second internal cooldown (equal to its duration to prevent re-triggering before the duration is finished.), and multi-target heals only count as one instance of healing in terms of proc chance.

I believe the nerf to the "Breath of Solnius" trinket is a bit excessive. The base stats of 30 Healing and 11 Spirit are not particularly powerful. If the proc is modified to have a 15-second internal cooldown and can only trigger with a 5% chance, the uptime for the Haste effect will be very low. For healers, trinkets with an unstable proc and low uptime are of limited usefulness. I suggest that if you modify the internal cooldown and adjust the proc mechanism, you should compensate by increasing the proc chance. This would ensure that the trinket's uptime remains at a reasonable level.

[Atreidon]

With a 5% chance to proc breath, you need 20 casts on average to get one.
In the best case scenario of using 1.5 second cast heals, that means on average you spend 30 seconds casting to trigger it for an effect that lasts 15 seconds. So the uptime is ~33%. Thats an average of 6.7% haste from one itemslot on top of other stats.

But most healers will be using slower heals especially considering during breaths active you want to use slower heals too. Considering otherwise you loose the value from haste to the gcd. With a 2.5 second cast heal (for instance chainheal or holy light) the number goes down to 4.6% haste.

Still very very strong, but it curbstomps whats fun about the trinket. I suggest instead to remove the addheal & statd as well as the cd on the trinket (and keep it proc only once for aoe spells) that way gain between ~10% average haste on a very idealistic scenario and 6-7% average haste in a more realistic setting.

Its still a very potent trinket, but its still a healer trinket that isnt exactly reliable. And that itself is a downside on a role that id all about reliability

[Watterboy1]

Greetings! Here's the preliminary itemization changelog detailing all item related additions and changes coming in Patch 1.17.2: Tower of Karazhan.

• Bonereaver's Edge: Procs per minute returned to original Vanilla value, reducing it from 3 to 2.

[/list]

Doesn't seem like whirlwind can proc this effect whereas it did on vanilla; not sure if cleave can. So reducing this is pretty substantial, unless whirlwind proc is being fixed.

Also, has it already been reduced, or is it still at 3ppm right now?

[Hutber]

Scyth of Harvest will be nerfed, this was expected. But there is nothing interesting in return.
Maybe you can rebalance Shadowbringer then? Give him attack speed 2.7 - 2.8 (without changing damage per second ofc)

[Brutallica]

Why are you nerfing BRE?

1h Fury is so stupidly dominant already. I suggest you leave BRE alone, and UP BWL and above twohanders DPS.

[987004590]

• Breath of Solnius: Now has a 15 second internal cooldown, and multi-target heals only count as one instance of healing in terms of proc chance.

• Warmth of Forgiveness: Increased mana granted on use from 500 to 700.

Opinion of a healer (shaman) here:

1. Breath of Solnius is by far our best trinket. If ES is supposed to be on par with BWL/AQ gear, then you shouldn't nerf it to be barely better than Jed's trinket from UBRS. That proc rate still bad*. Nerf it so that can't proc off the bounces, that's fine. But don't put an internal cooldown on it at all. The trinket becomes fully trivial, and then at this point you're looking at all healers now needing the same 2 trinkets in order to be full BiS: Rejuv Gem and Eye of the Dead

2. If you want to make Warmth an actual useable item, because it's basically a tiny bit better than Shard of the Scale right now, you may want to add some +healing on it (from a healer POV). If Rejuv Gem has very high +heal and fair mp5, then make Warmth have fair +healing and very high mp5 (with on-use effect). Something like +50 healing on it could definitely make it an option for some healers and would diversify itemization. Nordranaar Teas are extremely strong, so mp5 and on-use mana gain are less of a need, so yeah, the +heal on Warmth would need to be pretty high to make it valuable.

*Edit, I noticed you lowered rom 45s to 15s internal cooldown but it still makes the trinket weak considering there's only a 5% chance to proc altogether. Make it a 20% chance to proc to compensate, at the very least

Good points.

Regarding Breath of Solnius, it should be either an internal cooldown or no multi-proc mechanic, not both simultaneously.

+1

[Grizb37]

Imagine giving Atiesh +600 Feral AP and R14 weapon 252.... I know which is harder to get. What a joke.

[Diablowjob]

Imagine giving Atiesh +600 Feral AP and R14 weapon 252.... I know which is harder to get. What a joke.

r13 armor set need a buff for sure. Weps need slightly buff too...

[Marwy]

Hatchet of Sundered Bone faction locked oversight - you are trying to encourage people to not roll human as much through the weapon skill changes. But naxx is swimming in swords, while the only 1h axe with 65dps is stuck on Noth's loot table along with two previously faction locked items (the shaman totem and the pala libram). This means Hatchet has the lowest chance to drop of any bis item in Naxx (14% vs 20%). You could easily adapt boss loot tables in naxx to give the axe a better chance of dropping in more raids and supporting your effort to encourage non-human non-sword users - e.g. by put the pala and shaman items on different bosses.

[Ragatho]

As retry Paladin I am forced to use [Ring of Electrical Binding] for better manageren for more DPS ect. Can U just add some AP or so on it instead of +10 Nature Rezist?

[Patdawan]

Shroud of Haunted Torment: Removed 2% Haste.

There are so many other items you could've nerfed but why this? this is one of the best caster cloaks other than cloak of consumption, cloak of the devoured & cloak of necropolis...

Please reconsider this change, I know a lot of unhappy people..

[Zebabass]

Hey

Bloodcaller (sword of Hakkar for caster) has a little low spelldamage (33) for a item of the final boss of ZG?

[Ayesha]

"Blackfire Orb and Orb of Kaladoon: Now has 1% Haste and 15 Spellpower."

Are you going to keep the spell crit and spell hit on the mentioned items or will they be replaced?