Paladin Retune When??

[Ckirion]

Soo. Paladins have 9 sec stun window, lay on hands, Bubble, Plate, Heals, Damage, everything. Unkillable. Retune When?

[Atreidon]

The moment when people make factually accurate claims about the classes capability, outline reasonable possible adjustments while taking into account for intentional class strengths and weaknesses and how they will impact paladins of all specs in levelling, raiding and pvp environments as well as how they keep with the class fantasy so the devs have more than biased vitriol to go off when assessing class adjustments.

In other words, paladin is save.

[Laysson]

Damn, you made me want to level my Paladin :D

[Evolve]

The moment when people make factually accurate claims about the classes capability, outline reasonable possible adjustments while taking into account for intentional class strengths and weaknesses and how they will impact paladins of all specs in levelling, raiding and pvp environments as well as how they keep with the class fantasy so the devs have more than biased vitriol to go off when assessing class adjustments.

In other words, paladin is save.

Well lets compare what Shamans can do on TWoW vs Paladins since those are the exclusive classes:

Shaman offense:
Purge
Damage (caster or melee)

Shaman CC:
Frost shock (soft cc)
Earth shock (interrupt)
Earthbind totem(easily killed totem and soft cc)


Shaman CC removal:
Grounding totem (good for 1 damage spell cast and will absorb for anyone targeted in your party not just the shaman)
Tremor (unreliable and easily killed totem only works on fears and sleep)
Cleanse Poison
Cleanse Disease (never used in PvP)

Shaman defensives:
Heal

Pally offense:
Damage (holy damage cannot be mitigated)
Hard CCs

Paladin CC:
HoJ (Hard CC stun)
Repentance (Hard CC incap)

Paladin CC removal:
Cleanse (removes 3 debuffs with 1 cast including magic)
Freedom (complete removal of all slow debuffs and immunity)


Paladin defensives:
Eye for an Eye talent (returns 30% crit spell damage back to the caster)
LoH
Bubble (total immunity can still heal or attack)
Hand of Protection (complete removal of all physical debuffs incl Sap and immunity to physical attacks for the pally or an ally)
Heal

Shamans have 1 defensive ability, to heal themselves. Where as paladins have multiple defensive abilities for both them and their allies including the ability to go completely invulnerable and still take actions. They can also use a Hard CC to stop the person attacking/moving (or if stunned take any actions at all) and go on the offensive or defensive via the baseline abilities given to them which don't require a talent (consecration, holy strike, crusader strike). Where as the new shaman ability is not baseline and requires a talent.


Paladins need some of their defensive capabilities locked behind talents (bubble holy spec capstone) since they have been given so much baseline now.

[Vidnar]

Soo. Paladins have 9 sec stun window, lay on hands, Bubble, Plate, Heals, Damage, everything. Unkillable. Retune When?

Only hard CC paladin has is HoJ with 6 sec duration and 1min cd if you want to add repentance you need to mention its a deep ret talent that incapacitates target for 6 sec like gouge or sap and has 1 min cd (its special effect doesnt work in pvp)
LoH has a 1 HOUR CD, drains ALL YOUR MANA and can be affected by Healing reduction effects
Divine Shield works only for 12 sec, cuts your damage in half and prevents you from being bubbled by HoP for the next minute. And it share CD with Divine Protection so there is that.
Plate doesnt mitigate magic damage and armor loses on its value when you remeber Turtle wow introduced Armor Penetration (You atacks ignore x armor)
Heals can be kicked, silenced and intterupted and if you arent specced into them they will drain your mana with how Heal to Mana ratio is.
What damage? Ret requires almost 20-30 sec of a ramp up to buff themself to full potential. And can be easily countered with kitting and dispells as it has no ranged damage capability. And lets not forget Exo works only on demons and undead. Or how HoW barely gets 1mana to 1.5 damage, has a 1sec cast time and has CD. As an execute.
So its a skill issue or diffrence in gear?

[Springboards]

What everyone else needs is to receive an instant 1k+ damage strike since shamans got an extra instant ability stormstrike
paladins got an extra instant ability 6 sec cd(less with libram now) crus strike

so then, mages need to receive ice lance with a 6-8 sec cd
hunters need to get 6-8s chimera shot
warlocks need some sort of instant 8 sec cd dmg ability
druids need one

you get the idea, alot of classes are playing with their basic toolkits while shamans and paladins are playing with tbc abilites. And no, dark harvest does not equal crusader strike

[Vidnar]

What everyone else needs is to receive an instant 1k+ damage strike since shamans got an extra instant ability stormstrike
paladins got an extra instant ability 6 sec cd(less with libram now) crus strike

so then, mages need to receive ice lance with a 6-8 sec cd
hunters need to get 6-8s chimera shot
warlocks need some sort of instant 8 sec cd dmg ability
druids need one

you get the idea, alot of classes are playing with their basic toolkits while shamans and paladins are playing with tbc abilites. And no, dark harvest does not equal crusader strike

So where are my undispellable seals? Avenging Wrath? Scalling Wolfes? Something more than CS and LB for EleCombat?
Paladins finally got their basic kit as melee/healer hybrid as they should have from the beggining and Ench can be something more than auto atack bot. There is a lot of more work to improve them, yes.
And be genuine and paint the whole picture cause Libram drops from Upper Khaz and reduces CD by a whopping HALF A SECOND! WOOHOOO! OP! GRAND MARSHAL HERE WE GO! =v=

[Springboards]

you have crusader strike (which was not on blizz servers);while everyone else is stuck as secondary characters running around with their default vanilla toolkits

[Noephix]

you have crusader strike (which was not on blizz servers)

Yes, because 1.12 paladin was a meme class with no DPS and no tanking capabilities whatsoever.

Paladin is not useless anymore. Deal with it.

[Springboards]

i know paladins are more than viable dps now. It became the most overtuned braindead class in twow existence . why do you think there are more paladins than entire horde population? Sometimes on alliance my entire team can be all paladins and we all know the reason. Why cant rogues be overtuned like paladins? maybe warlocks? So we get a giant influx of those classes

Even a full pvp blue av mace starter paladin can push out more damage than a t2+caster who needs to hardcast while paladin has ZERO setup and just unloads on the get-go. Keep in mind people want to bring back the cc1 holy strike as their part of rotation as well so they have another dps button to go .

[Noephix]

i know paladins are more than viable dps now. It became the most overtuned braindead class in twow existence .

No it didn't. You're just bad.

why do you think there are more paladins than entire horde population?

Because "righteous knight in shining armor" is the most popular class fantasy. Most of them don't even pvp. Same as why Blood Elf Paladin is the most popular character in retail WoW. To make paladin not popular - you have to make them completely and utterly suck.

Why cant rogues be overtuned like paladins?

Rogue can 100-0 anyone during stunlock, what more do you want? (I assume we're talking PvP?)

maybe warlocks?

Warlock is the best 1v1 class in the game. People need engineering and consumes to deal with the BS that warlock gets for free. And they still lose most of the time against a competent lock. Esp. demoLOLogy.

And warlock will never be popular- class fantasy just doesn't click for most people.

Even a full pvp blue av mace starter paladin can push out more damage than a t2+caster

No they can't. You're talking BS.

[Vidnar]

i know paladins are more than viable dps now. It became the most overtuned braindead class in twow existence . why do you think there are more paladins than entire horde population? Sometimes on alliance my entire team can be all paladins and we all know the reason. Why cant rogues be overtuned like paladins? maybe warlocks? So we get a giant influx of those classes

Even a full pvp blue av mace starter paladin can push out more damage than a t2+caster who needs to hardcast while paladin has ZERO setup and just unloads on the get-go. Keep in mind people want to bring back the cc1 holy strike as their part of rotation as well so they have another dps button to go .

Youre either dont know what you talk about or you straight up lie.
I advise you to do research or better yet, level paladin, get that blue mace and pvp. Then come back and tell us how your arguments will hold up then.

[Atreidon]

Case in point why nothing ever comes out of these threads

Paladin is nummerically overtuned - A claim that is easily proved by paladins capabilities in pve combat, particularly raids, where his hybrid skillset is at its weakest.

Where they can still compete at a very high level while providing much more utility than more traditional dps classes.

Yet he remains with one of the most exploitable pvp weaknesses of all. An entirely melee centric playstile with a bad gapcloser, no slows and a movespeed buff that is countered with a boots enchant. Additionally paladin is the literal worst class in the game when dealing with hardcasted spells against him.

Causing both pala haters and pala andies to find plenty of "evidence" for their claim.
But since self reflection is hard, every single pala discussion devolves into "no u" before page two. And so shal this one

[Purecek]

He is doing the same lying shit talks on discord pvp channel too, just ignore him, he mistaken the useless blue mace paladin with blue mace shaman, because fresh 60 shaman with blue weapon can remove 50% of your hp with simple stormstrike.

[Springboards]

i was talking about AV mace and blue r8 pvp set. if warlocks and mages are so OP then why is half of my team not warlocks?? or mages?? Oh wait they are glass cannons which obviously cant survive the damage a paladin can

plus paladins ignore kite mechanics with freedom
you would think after the mage overtune and they got a giant massive boost we would see alot of mages esp on alliance side. nope. just few playing

"literal worst class dealing with hardcasted spells" you have a 20 yard instant 6 second scattershot when dealing with hardcasted spells. thats enough to interrupt any soulfire or pyroblast

the paladins in my guild are right there behind warriors on pve dps, and some even outdps them while having worse gear. overtuned in pve and pvp.

I am for real, go make a mage and see how long you last purecek ..its gonna turn your world upside down. all these paladin players defending their cringe overtuned abomination. oh and post some scoreboards too

[Voodoochile]

You are actually never going to win the court of public opinion on the issue of Paladins being hella overtuned because they are literally the most numerous class on this private server DESPITE being Alliance exclusive. And the fact that this is the case is a massive indicator that this class is overtuned.

The only logical way to circumvent, then, is to buff other classes to be competitive, but literally anyone with 0.5 years of experience in wow can tell you that leads to power creep and it is no longer classic. Which, again, only further cements the truth that Paladins stand head and shoulders above the other classes. And this is excluding the their factional mirror, Shaman, who are dwarfed by comparison.

The truth is Twow may never see a balanced Paladin. It would require an inspiration for the devs to suddenly decide:
1) Paladin is a fundamentally broken class
2) Has an overpowered stat block on their server that needs balance
3) They are willing to nerf Alliance by nerfing Paladins, and consequently raise Horde on the totem pole

Which is just not going to happen.

[Gildark]

And the fact that this is the case is a massive indicator that this class is overtuned.

Eh not really, its class fantasy is just extremely more popular than any other on top of Paladin never getting an actual good representation besides healbot in any version of classic other than TWoW.

[Forumdweller]

Paladins have 3 glaring issues in PvP:

1. They have no mobility and can be outrun pretty easily. Even if they freedom themselves after you snare em it's usually not fast enough to keep up with you, especially if u watch their GCD
2. The only melee class that doesn't have a kick ability
3. Once they bubble you can kite them to the hills while they heal and have oom themselves


There's other stuff like: long CD's with bubble

The issue is that their damage is way too high for a class that has so much baseline utility

i think theres way bigger issues right now than ret personally, atleast pala requires a real person behind it to actually accomplish something unlike mage that just blanket counterspells u into 4k missiles as you try to run behind a wall helplessly

[Laysson]

1. They have no mobility and can be outrun pretty easily. Even if they freedom themselves after you snare em it's usually not fast enough to keep up with you, especially if u watch their GCD

Like most melees ?

2. The only melee class that doesn't have a kick ability

- Melee Hunter
- Feral druid

3. Once they bubble you can kite them to the hills while they heal and have oom themselves

At least they can be IMMUNE FOR 10, right ?

Stop the jokes please.

[Forumdweller]

1. They have no mobility and can be outrun pretty easily. Even if they freedom themselves after you snare em it's usually not fast enough to keep up with you, especially if u watch their GCD

Like most melees ?

2. The only melee class that doesn't have a kick ability

- Melee Hunter
- Feral druid

3. Once they bubble you can kite them to the hills while they heal and have oom themselves

At least they can be IMMUNE FOR 10, right ?

Stop the jokes please.

No, not like most melees. Warriors, Rogue's all have movement abilities, however limited.

Feral druid does have a kick. I don't consider survival hunter a melee class, and who is arguing that they're too weak anyway?

Immune for 10 seconds because they lack a bunch of stuff that is considered mandatory by most classes. Paladins dont even have a slow. Best thing they can do is frost oil or leper gnome you but who is actually doing that? Complaining just to complain.

I'm not saying paladin isn't overtuned. I'm saying that the devs need to decide if it's going to be a dps or hybrid and go from there. Druid is overpowered for the exact same reason that paladin's are. They get the best of both worlds and the implications of that in pvp haven't yet been considered.

Pala had 95% of the kit here that they do in vanilla, yet nobody complained. Why?

[Skullcat]

This thread is indeed very much anti-paladin sentiment in a lot of official capacity. To paint the image correctly:

> Paladins are the least mobile melee of all melees. Warriors have charge. Feral druids are simply faster in cat-form. The Rogue has a sprint. Survival Hunters have Aspect of Cheetah. Shaman that's smart enough can Spirit-wolf (it takes only 3 seconds.)
-> Paladin struggles with catching runners. Warriors have charge, and hamstring. Feral Druid can entangle, or keep on their target. (30% movement speed in cat form is really hard to shake off.) Shamans have Earthbind totems. Rogue generally never need to catch runners (because at that point runners are already dead.)

---

> Paladins have zero ranged capacity outside of Engineering. Warriors can use ranged weapons. Rogues can use ranged weapons. Shamans can cast spells afar. Druids can cast spells afar. This means that Paladins are mostly forced to engage enemies in close-quarter combat at all times.
-> As such. Paladins will be best performing fighting enemies indoors with wall for LoS.

---

> Paladins have a lot of survival kits. But that is to compensate for their glaring PVP weaknesses. Once the distance is made, the Paladin will never win that PVP fight and their only solution is to leave. A Paladin that cannot make the chase will either have to leave, or lose.
-> Hand of Freedom, and Hand of Justice will not help the Paladins with chase almost all of the time. If they are not bursting the damage immediately, the target survives. That said target can flee, and survive the encounter with a Paladin. It's not the end of the world.

---

Their only saving grace is that Paladins' strong points are simply the ability to stun an enemy on-demand (But on a 60 second CD). Stasis themselves into invulnerable stasis (on a 5 minute CD.). Recharge all of their health affected by healing reduction at cost of all their mana (On a whole hour CD). And 10-seconds of movement-impairing immunity on a 20 second cooldown.

But Paladins, once cannot reach their target, have already lost.

Paladins may be terrifying. But they are slow. They are dependent on Engineering. They need speed boosts to reach you. Once you're able to outpace the paladin at that point. You've effectively won. Paladins just can't do anything about it.

[Laysson]

1. They have no mobility and can be outrun pretty easily. Even if they freedom themselves after you snare em it's usually not fast enough to keep up with you, especially if u watch their GCD

Like most melees ?

2. The only melee class that doesn't have a kick ability

- Melee Hunter
- Feral druid

3. Once they bubble you can kite them to the hills while they heal and have oom themselves

At least they can be IMMUNE FOR 10, right ?

Stop the jokes please.

No, not like most melees. Warriors, Rogue's all have movement abilities, however limited.

Feral druid does have a kick. I don't consider survival hunter a melee class, and who is arguing that they're too weak anyway?

Immune for 10 seconds because they lack a bunch of stuff that is considered mandatory by most classes. Paladins dont even have a slow. Best thing they can do is frost oil or leper gnome you but who is actually doing that? Complaining just to complain.

So you are un-kitable, but you still want a kick and a snare, nice.

[Forumdweller]

Like most melees ?



- Melee Hunter
- Feral druid



At least they can be IMMUNE FOR 10, right ?

Stop the jokes please.

No, not like most melees. Warriors, Rogue's all have movement abilities, however limited.

Feral druid does have a kick. I don't consider survival hunter a melee class, and who is arguing that they're too weak anyway?

Immune for 10 seconds because they lack a bunch of stuff that is considered mandatory by most classes. Paladins dont even have a slow. Best thing they can do is frost oil or leper gnome you but who is actually doing that? Complaining just to complain.

So you are un-kitable, but you still want a kick and a snare, nice.

Are you dense? I didn't ask for a kick or snare. I'm telling you how the class functions. I don't even play paladin. Go finish leveling...

[Voodoochile]

Pala had 95% of the kit here that they do in vanilla, yet nobody complained. Why?

People do complain about Paladin because they are one of the no-fun allowed gang, and the only reason there isn't more in vanilla realms is because Paladins are underpowered.

But like I said above, Paladins are a fundamentally broken class. They have several spells that say "You no longer get to interact with me" that is aggrevating to play against in pvp, and breaks and trivializes encounters in pve.

The fact that Paladins can completely drop the threat gen of any member of the raid instantly, and make that target completely invincible to physical is insane.
The fact that they can make themselves invincible to nearly everything is insane.
The fact they can completely negate mechanics like Maexxna web+heal cut poison+enrage combo by DI'ing another healer and using a soulstone to breeze through end game progression mechanics is insane.
The fact that they can give any person 30% threat reduction is insane.

[Vidnar]

Pala had 95% of the kit here that they do in vanilla, yet nobody complained. Why?

People do complain about Paladin because they are one of the no-fun allowed gang, and the only reason there isn't more in vanilla realms is because Paladins are underpowered.

But like I said above, Paladins are a fundamentally broken class. They have several spells that say "You no longer get to interact with me" that is aggrevating to play against in pvp, and breaks and trivializes encounters in pve.

The fact that Paladins can completely drop the threat gen of any member of the raid instantly, and make that target completely invincible to physical is insane.
The fact that they can make themselves invincible to nearly everything is insane.
The fact they can completely negate mechanics like Maexxna web+heal cut poison+enrage combo by DI'ing another healer and using a soulstone to breeze through end game progression mechanics is insane.
The fact that they can give any person 30% threat reduction is insane.

BoP - Immune to physical damage but cant perform physical actions yourself
Divine Shield - immune to all damage, ou deal 50% less damage
Divine Intervention - you literally kill yourself to shield someone for 3 minutes but they cant do anything, even move
Blessing of Salvation - ONE OF the blessings, so your choosing between bonus melee AP, MP5, 10% more stats (as ret), better Healing Power for pally heals, sligtly less damage taken in melee (as prot)

Almost every paladin skill has a cost atached to it. So, i ask, how are they suppose to be broken?
Broken as in they all over the place and completely undefined as a class? Yes, i aggree
Broken as in Over Powered due to few select skills? By that logic, other classes are far more OP.

[Noephix]

So you are un-kitable, but you still want a kick and a snare, nice.

Paladin. Unkiteable. PALADIN.
You just said you have no idea what you're talking about without saying you have no idea what you're talking about.

Paladin is literally the most kiteable class in the game due to the fact they cant exceed the base movespeed. Once you gain distance on the paladin - they are never getting it back.
No, bubble doesn't help. No, Hand of Freedom doesn't help either. If you played the game you'd know that.

[Forumdweller]

Pala had 95% of the kit here that they do in vanilla, yet nobody complained. Why?

People do complain about Paladin because they are one of the no-fun allowed gang, and the only reason there isn't more in vanilla realms is because Paladins are underpowered.

But like I said above, Paladins are a fundamentally broken class. They have several spells that say "You no longer get to interact with me" that is aggrevating to play against in pvp, and breaks and trivializes encounters in pve.

The fact that Paladins can completely drop the threat gen of any member of the raid instantly, and make that target completely invincible to physical is insane.
The fact that they can make themselves invincible to nearly everything is insane.
The fact they can completely negate mechanics like Maexxna web+heal cut poison+enrage combo by DI'ing another healer and using a soulstone to breeze through end game progression mechanics is insane.
The fact that they can give any person 30% threat reduction is insane.

this is from vanilla.
paladins aren't strong?

[Springboards]

Ok we got a lot of newcomers in this thread like skullcat(Joined: 04 May 2025 01:27) who have no idea what they are talking about while we have been fighting these things for the past 3 years if not more.

Survival hunter cant use aspect of the cheetah since he will be immediately get dazed. Only chance is to ride up on a mount while their target is preoccupied with someone else or doesnt see them just like a paladin would to close the gap.
Paladins have THE BEST ranged cc in the game with 0 cast time and 1 of the longest cc duration in the form of repentance. HOJ is also the best ranged stun in the game and can be further compounded by having a 30s cd with pvp set other items/talents, plus ZG neck to increase its duration. Other classes's ZG necks and pvp set bonuses are . Freedom is a 16s uptime 20s cd free action pot, basically.

you are unkitable, ranged still need to stand still to get their casts off (well, beside aff and desto locks and moonkins since they are all insta cast) while you can basically near insta close the gap since you arent slowed while that mage is trying to get that 2.5s casted fireball at you . Worst case scenario if that fails use the Turtle*TM line of sight and hide behind a tree; ranged cant cast anymore and you regen your hp with oranges

Here, i started off on a paladin at 36yd icicles and i cant even finish my full cast; i barely did 2 in so he closed in (36-20= 16 yd) in literally .5s sec. So he repentanced me 3s ago when my icicle channel was pretty much full. So anyone who says they cant close the gap is lying and needs to keybind their mount button.

[Springboards]

Also this is normal alliance BG setup on nordanar(i can only deduce the same happens on talabim)






I dont want to be with these..i call em.."things" i dont want to fight these "things" I just want normal BGs but when your team always has at least a half of them dont you think something is wrong? We have the same class comp every bg

[Atreidon]

Nice screenshot of a paladin slowly menacingly walking towards you with iceblock off cooldown

Assuming your enemy is on the mount and you is putting him into a state that isnt a fair 1:1 to start out. Either both are or both arent. Otherwise its someone cleaning up a previous pvp battle. Especially on mage that can easily force a paly off of the mount by sheep or a freeze.

Also, ye you can only kill paladin efficiently if you stop moving. But he cant kill you at all if you dont stop moving.

Colf snap iceblock gives you 2 minutes of kiting paladin with impunity before he ever can close the gap with his 3. Repentence...

Paly is absurdly powerful, but you arent exactly making it hard for them either xD

[Springboards]

obviously normally i'd open up with sheep but this was for demonstration. sheep(if i dont get repentanced)-->fb-->blanket cs silence so no freedom--fb-->icicles or fireblast depending on how close they are. also repentance is 6 seconds. the fact that they completely ignore certain class mechanics like shatter is insane(or viper sting)

[Forumdweller]

powerful

but not as powerful as 90% of the specs that either walk up to you and fucking obliterate you from the earth with 0 forethought. pala has atleast 5 buttons that actually have CD's and have to be used effectively before they dunk on you

paladinss have weaknesses unlike mages and priests which are inbred classes that have been dominating with their bloated SoD/Classic + kits for far too long

[Vidnar]

Ill give you a better one as every example given to debunk myth of OP paladin is countered with such a fringe or disengenious argument that it starts to look like talking to a wall.
All of you who argue that paladin is OP, i have a question for you: how would you rebalance paladin then?
As we mostly refer to Ret in pvp, tell me how would you rebalance Ret to not be, as you say, "OP/Powerful".

[Forumdweller]

Ill give you a better one as every example given to debunk myth of OP paladin is countered with such a fringe or disengenious argument that it starts to look like talking to a wall.
All of you who argue that paladin is OP, i have a question for you: how would you rebalance paladin then?
As we mostly refer to Ret in pvp, tell me how would you rebalance Ret to not be, as you say, "OP/Powerful".

Start with making holy dmg be affected by armor thats about it tbh

eye for an eye is quite annoying as well, i shouldnt just fucking die as collateral for critting him

thats about it tbh, i wouldnt say pala is too OP anymore no mobility and mana issues cripplies tf out of them

1.5s holy lights are also insane but so is most of the burst so i cant really complain about that until burst gets nerfed

Eye for an eye would be much better if it did less max % damage & did less damage per hp missing

[Springboards]

No the only solution is to give everyone hard stuns, actual controlled stuns not this rng-garbage proc chance whatever destro or firemage has which is nice when the stars align but when it doesnt..well..too bad

Deep freeze, shadowfury, so on.

These things ignore poly/seduce mechanics with sacrifice, ignore slow/root/shatter mechanics with freedom , ignore priest mindlflay which is now their major source of dmg, ignore drain mechanics with 100 mana cleanse the list goes on and on and the fact that they make up usually 60-80% of an alliance team every day. Fuq it just make freedom give you immunity to stuns too so they have their bases covered(oh wait it does give them blanket immunity to hunter conc shot stun)

hunter+paladin...hmmm poly paladin focus hunter? jk sacriice. so only solution is to poly hunter and nuke paladin..jk bubble. Do you not see anything wrong here there is completely 0 counterplay to this class and if they do feel outmatched they can just run inside a building where you HAVE TO face them headon in close quarters and you obviously cant take their damage

Also their damage is now not holy its mostly physical read up logs , the only class which can do good vs them is tank spec'd shaman since they have 60-70% physical dr...everyone else just crumbles

Another solution is to reduce stamina on paladin gear, bumping them down t o 2.5k-3k hp unbuffed is a good start. Ashbringer is good example of this, most paladin gear need to have -stamina on them to match the paladin powerlevel