CC Duration in PVP

[kardras]

I think crowd control duration should be adjusted in PVP to the standard 10 sec maximum. Sitting in a sap for 40 seconds is just way too overpowered and way too frustraiting to play against. Blizzard themselves adjusted CC as soon as they got serious about PVP in TBC.

[Bigsmerf]

Diminishing returns are a thing for a reason

[Gantulga]

Imagine complaining about the absolute bottom of the barrel class, especially after the stupid PvP trinket change.

[kardras]

Imagine complaining about the absolute bottom of the barrel class, especially after the stupid PvP trinket change.

"40 second polymorph in PVP is good because...because.. because it is ok!"

[Based_Chadman]

Imagine complaining about the absolute bottom of the barrel class, especially after the stupid PvP trinket change.

What did they change?

[Gantulga]

Imagine complaining about the absolute bottom of the barrel class, especially after the stupid PvP trinket change.

What did they change?

They now remove all CC for all classes.

[Based_Chadman]

Imagine complaining about the absolute bottom of the barrel class, especially after the stupid PvP trinket change.

What did they change?

They now remove all CC for all classes.

That's the best way to maintain a proper competitive landscape.

The real question is if other cleanses share a cooldown at all.

[Staywhimsy]

Insigna changes were the best changes for pvp with the big patch.

[Gantulga]

What did they change?

They now remove all CC for all classes.

That's the best way to maintain a proper competitive landscape.

The real question is if other cleanses share a cooldown at all.

That's what you think but that's not how classes were designed in vanilla and it hurts underdogs like rogue further.

[Based_Chadman]

They now remove all CC for all classes.

That's the best way to maintain a proper competitive landscape.

The real question is if other cleanses share a cooldown at all.

That's what you think but that's not how classes were designed in vanilla and it hurts underdogs like rogue further.

I have never witnessed a rogue meta that was fun for the majority of pvp players. When rogues have one shot combo cheese, casters literally can't play the game, and that's bad.
What trinkets force is setup beyond braindead one-shot macros and clever use of cx — it's the reason items like BkB and purification beads made their way into MOBAs, too. It reduces gimmicky play and creates an open meta for sustained damage and outplay potential over cheese builds.

[Gantulga]

That's the best way to maintain a proper competitive landscape.

The real question is if other cleanses share a cooldown at all.

That's what you think but that's not how classes were designed in vanilla and it hurts underdogs like rogue further.

I have never witnessed a rogue meta that was fun for the majority of pvp players. When rogues have one shot combo cheese, casters literally can't play the game, and that's bad.
What trinkets force is setup beyond braindead one-shot macros and clever use of cx — it's the reason items like BkB and purification beads made their way into MOBAs, too. It reduces gimmicky play and creates an open meta for sustained damage and outplay potential over cheese builds.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Ataika]

Guy is upset he cant controll 1 target for two days straight vanilla like
Now the victim has a chance to interrupt one type of 20 controls rogue has
Literally unplayable

[Gantulga]

Instead of conjuring imaginary scenarios in your head, it'd be helpful to learn how classes and mechanics actually work.

[Ataika]

You are one of these pvp sweatiers who think pvp is fine when player was obligated to have skull if impending doom 24/7 on him to have a chance against rat class. Sat 20 days in front of ogrammer dueling your obese friend's undead mage and now you think every class can duel vanilla rogue on an equal footing so trinket buff is soooo unfair.

[Atreidon]

The pvp trinket being able to remove everything has had major impacts for classes that rely on their CC.

For instance, in a battle between mage & rogue, the mage now being able to get out of a kidney even with blink on CD makes kidney shot almost impossible to get value from.

Same with fears on shaman. Grounding and tremor already made fears rather weak / hard to apply with a shaman in combat. Having a second lifeline makes even deathcoil>kill totem>fear an unreliable/non option.

On the topic of deathcoil. That spell was never meant to be trinketable. Warlocks lack of personal defense is in parts due to deathcoils powerlevel.
By just changing the insignia you change all kinds of matchups majorly, as the class that has to apply the CC has a harder time.

PvP is in a unbalanced spot, and while the insignia itself is just a teeny tiny piece of the puzzle, it was adjusted without taking a look at each possible interaction. While everyone being able to get out of CC is nice, that also means everybody has go be able to fight a fair fight without relying on it. And in the case of Rogue or Hunter, these classes rely on CC more than a Shaman or Retpally. So buffing anti CC capabilities hurts them more

[Silhouette]

PvP Trinkets changes is a double edge sword, while it is indeed beneficial for some classes, it isn't for others in an unfair way. As always, it is not expected to see much more from Twow when it comes to PvP balance so everything they do is minimal, without enough expertise which is sadly understandable because PvP never was their field of predilection.

Too many people are expecting a PvP know-how that doesn't exist here.

[Staywhimsy]

You are one of these pvp sweatiers who think pvp is fine when player was obligated to have skull if impending doom 24/7 on him to have a chance against rat class. Sat 20 days in front of ogrammer dueling your obese friend's undead mage and now you think every class can duel vanilla rogue on an equal footing so trinket buff is soooo unfair.

[Staywhimsy]

PvP Trinkets changes is a double edge sword, while it is indeed beneficial for some classes, it isn't for others in an unfair way. As always, it is not expected to see much more from Twow when it comes to PvP balance so everything they do is minimal, without enough expertise which is sadly understandable because PvP never was their field of predilection.

Too many people are expecting a PvP know-how that doesn't exist here.

Insignia on 2 Min CD removing all kind of CCS Is a pvp staple of wow since tbc. Was and Is the best trinket in pvp ( outside of a brief period of time where It was meta to Just stack hardiness + passive pvp stun reduction talent) .

Whenever rogues had High burst damage output on top of their obnoxious cc kit arena and bgs were Always a shitshow. CC Is king in pvp and rogues are One of the best classes at this.

Rogue could literally hypothetically do nearly zero damage and being still strong in a kill Window or a cc setup.

PS. Btw there are random t3 rogues lurking in bgs that literally kill you in One opener and Half ( they probably using tea + Cb i think?) but if i don't have an insigna on i literally get deleted during a stun rotation.

[Wolf of Rage]

Long-lasting and even some fragile CC that is _also_ with a long duration have a mechanic called Heartbeat Resist, which thankfully at least appears to work here, if maybe a bit too unlucky when it comes to relying on it to occur exactly when you need it.

Aside from obvious suggestions like the Skull of Impending Doom and Free Action Potion, there's Lucidity Potion, pre-using Restorative Potion for a tick to Dispel a CC you expect to hit you soon that can be removed by it, various non-Engineering Consumables and even Engineering-made ones that do not actually require Engineering, there is also just Range "dancing" which indirectly mitigates not only CC but even DMG (VS Rogues outside of Blind, you can off-Range Gouge, Kidney, Dismantle if no Weapon Chain or Stronghold or Grips; VS Warrior you can avoid non-AoE Spells like Whirlwind such as MS, OP, etc., can deadzone for no Auto Attack or Intercept, and much more). Hell even in teamplay you can use Anti-Venoms on a friendly to remove Blinds and so on, Engineers can utilize Recombobulators on them to remove Poly _and_ heal (the heal still works even without a Poly on the recipient), and even solo as a desperation tactic or to stall, I pretty much don't even see anyone utilize Petrification Flasks despite their notoriety.

Some CC is actually already nerfed. For example, not that anybody plays Prot Warrior PvP, but Concussion Blow used to be a 5s Stun, but here it's 2s which is laughable and only serves to gimp Kidney and even the Warrior's own Intercept. For Arms, Improved Hamstring is gone, and Counterattack is not only terrible and not worth, but even its own Root is 3s rather than 5s.

Vanilla PvP was a big part of WoW from the start, but it was also quite flawed in some parts, yet still, a lot of aspects like each Class' CC and overall how one could be a counter to the other and that be countered by a different one entirely, how that also results in teamwork being all the more important to both combine old-fashioned XvX PvP design and the MMORPG aspect of many people teaming up and deciding to go against a different group (BGs etc., nobody really does WPvP Raids like Tarren Mill or Crossroads in Nordanaar though, and Cross-Faction has further hurt organic encounters). CC2's problem, however, has made stuff a lot burstier, and the PvP Trinket change has granted an extra escape with a shortened CD to everyone while CC-reliant Classes now have to deal with that fact. 3m CD removing nearly if not all CC compared to OG Vanilla's per-Class removes on 5m is a huge difference.

All in all I feel as though people want things to be like an awkward mix of WotLK burst but also have rapid-fire CC and CD reliance like in MoP, in an older iteration of the game that had both inherent old-fashioned design visions and its own flaws (intentional or otherwise), and this server's intent appears to be... at least... trying to... somewhat follow those principles (albeit CC2 and new gear/old gear changes have resulted in stupid outcomes by comparison).

[Gantulga]

PvP Trinkets changes is a double edge sword, while it is indeed beneficial for some classes, it isn't for others in an unfair way. As always, it is not expected to see much more from Twow when it comes to PvP balance so everything they do is minimal, without enough expertise which is sadly understandable because PvP never was their field of predilection.

Too many people are expecting a PvP know-how that doesn't exist here.

Insignia on 2 Min CD removing all kind of CCS Is a pvp staple of wow since tbc. Was and Is the best trinket in pvp ( outside of a brief period of time where It was meta to Just stack hardiness + passive pvp stun reduction talent) .

Whenever rogues had High burst damage output on top of their obnoxious cc kit arena and bgs were Always a shitshow. CC Is king in pvp and rogues are One of the best classes at this.

Rogue could literally hypothetically do nearly zero damage and being still strong in a kill Window or a cc setup.

PS. Btw there are random t3 rogues lurking in bgs that literally kill you in One opener and Half ( they probably using tea + Cb i think?) but if i don't have an insigna on i literally get deleted during a stun rotation.

This is not TBC which had its own class balance and classes had more survivability tools. This is butchered vanilla where nothing makes any sense anymore.

[Wolf of Rage]

Two-Handed Mace with a Chance on Hit effect to proc an eight-second Stun that originally from Vanilla used to be only three.

Because why not. Hey, you've played enough. Take a nap for eight seconds.

[Forumdweller]

my opinion is that the pvp trinkets shouldve been adjusted
but i think making it remove everything for all classes was a mistake
the insignias shouldve just been adjusted to alleviate existing counters
i.e stun removal on a warlock is good because rogues counter them hard and before their version of insignia was close to useless with it only removing fear/poly/charm when you need to use trinket slots on stuff to survive against melee such as agm, netomatic

but stun removal on a mage is kinda lol since they can already remove stuns with blink. i really wish theyd hire someone with actual pvp knowledge it could be the best server ever :)

im sure they could find someone. id even do it for free

[amanagor]

my opinion is that the pvp trinkets shouldve been adjusted
but i think making it remove everything for all classes was a mistake
the insignias shouldve just been adjusted to alleviate existing counters
i.e stun removal on a warlock is good because rogues counter them hard and before their version of insignia was close to useless with it only removing fear/poly/charm when you need to use trinket slots on stuff to survive against melee such as agm, netomatic

but stun removal on a mage is kinda lol since they can already remove stuns with blink. i really wish theyd hire someone with actual pvp knowledge it could be the best server ever :)

im sure they could find someone. id even do it for free

what a load of bs. a good warlock will absolutly sh*t on any rogue, without needing to trinket a stun. Warlocks are kings of 1V1.

[Forumdweller]

truly spoken like a montage enjoyer

a warlock isn't winning a rogue buddy unless he's soul link, using laps, or playing with succubus against a clown

[Gantulga]

a warlock isn't winning a rogue buddy unless he's soul link, using laps

So literally every single PvP warlock?

[amanagor]

truly spoken like a montage enjoyer

a warlock isn't winning a rogue buddy unless he's soul link, using laps, or playing with succubus against a clown

its not a question of opinion. Warlock has consistently won every single dueling tournament in classic. Beating rogues with ease, and thats without playing the SL spec as it was banned. also no laps or lips. my guess you're a 3k hp andy that thinks sucubus is the way to go against rogue.

[Forumdweller]

ote=Gantulga post_id=126723 time=1744633557 user_id=72504]

a warlock isn't winning a rogue buddy unless he's soul link, using laps

So literally every single PvP warlock?
[/quote]

whats even the point of this post, its giving extremely narcissistic energy.
soul link and laps are both extremely toxic but laps atleast are hard to come by, they're not something that happens in every fight. non soul link locks exist and other specs should be viable just because soul link is toxic. that benefits everyone including non soul link warlocks who actually want to be able to experience their full class.

truly spoken like a montage enjoyer

a warlock isn't winning a rogue buddy unless he's soul link, using laps, or playing with succubus against a clown

its not a question of opinion. Warlock has consistently won every single dueling tournament in classic. Beating rogues with ease, and thats without playing the SL spec as it was banned. also no laps or lips. my guess you're a 3k hp andy that thinks sucubus is the way to go against rogue.

comparing arena tournaments where just about anything including wbuffs but not kiting goes is wild work. soul link warlocks have no range on their spells and benefit greatly from the advantages from wbuffs, hp flasks and MR potions. please dont voice your opinions unless you explicitly mention that they are formulated around glass cannon pvp montages and such arena/duel tournaments. thanks.

[amanagor]

ote=Gantulga post_id=126723 time=1744633557 user_id=72504]

a warlock isn't winning a rogue buddy unless he's soul link, using laps

So literally every single PvP warlock?

whats even the point of this post, its giving extremely narcissistic energy.
soul link and laps are both extremely toxic but laps atleast are hard to come by, they're not something that happens in every fight. non soul link locks exist and other specs should be viable just because soul link is toxic. that benefits everyone including non soul link warlocks who actually want to be able to experience their full class.

truly spoken like a montage enjoyer

a warlock isn't winning a rogue buddy unless he's soul link, using laps, or playing with succubus against a clown

its not a question of opinion. Warlock has consistently won every single dueling tournament in classic. Beating rogues with ease, and thats without playing the SL spec as it was banned. also no laps or lips. my guess you're a 3k hp andy that thinks sucubus is the way to go against rogue.

comparing arena tournaments where just about anything including wbuffs but not kiting goes is wild work. soul link warlocks have no range on their spells and benefit greatly from the advantages from wbuffs, hp flasks and MR potions. please dont voice your opinions unless you explicitly mention that they are formulated around glass cannon pvp montages and such arena/duel tournaments. thanks.
[/quote]
no wbuffs, no pots. no flask. warlock wins easily. again you're crying because you're garbage at the game, when objectivly warlock beats rogue case in point, take some of the best rogues, and have them duel top tier warlocks, top tier warlock wins. Stop basing your opinion on how 1500 rated rats play.

[Konstantin19]

no wbuffs, no pots. no flask. warlock wins easily. again you're crying because you're garbage at the game, when objectivly warlock beats rogue case in point, take some of the best rogues, and have them duel top tier warlocks, top tier warlock wins. Stop basing your opinion on how 1500 rated rats play.

Yeah i remember these torunaments, where horde locks (ork) are shining due to their racials spamming seduction.
Otherwise its not possible to win against reflector undead geared undead rogue as non-sl lock. You can not escape stun, and if you can LAP is too predictable to react with vanish or blind is rogue somewhat skilled

Prolly a human warlock with perception abuse has a chance but out of my memory i remember only one human warlock nerd long ago on feenix and even here good rogue can counter that with vanish i suppose.

[amanagor]

no wbuffs, no pots. no flask. warlock wins easily. again you're crying because you're garbage at the game, when objectivly warlock beats rogue case in point, take some of the best rogues, and have them duel top tier warlocks, top tier warlock wins. Stop basing your opinion on how 1500 rated rats play.

Yeah i remember these torunaments, where horde locks (ork) are shining due to their racials spamming seduction.
Otherwise its not possible to win against reflector undead geared undead rogue as non-sl lock. You can not escape stun, and if you can LAP is too predictable to react with vanish or blind is rogue somewhat skilled

Prolly a human warlock with perception abuse has a chance but out of my memory i remember only one human warlock nerd long ago on feenix and even here good rogue can counter that with vanish i suppose.

actualy no, the winning locks played void walker. Also if you are playing alliance warlock in pvp, you have negative iq and are a lost cause.

[Konstantin19]

actualy no, the winning locks played void walker. Also if you are playing alliance warlock in pvp, you have negative iq and are a lost cause.

See the point ?
That says a lot about balance when attempt to pick particular faction for a class described as retarded idea.
Its very easy to be horde lock, no surprise there.

[amanagor]

actualy no, the winning locks played void walker. Also if you are playing alliance warlock in pvp, you have negative iq and are a lost cause.

See the point ?
That says a lot about balance when attempt to pick particular faction for a class described as retarded idea.
Its very easy to be horde lock, no surprise there.

not picking the correct race for your class is a skill issue.

[Konstantin19]

not picking the correct race for your class is a skill issue.

Its not about nitpicking a correct race, its bout playing the right faction
The very idea of alliance locks unplayability just because opponents have overtuned racials says for itself

[Forumdweller]

dont bother arguing on part of warlocks i've seen it a billion times
just pvp montage junkies here who think they know the game from short clips that dont represent reality at all

warlock is the least played class in vanilla since the dawn of time, on every single private server including turtle and it's not a mystery why. but people who have never played it will constantly bash it because of 1 scenario.

its like calling a warrior OP because they kill you in 2 sec with reck even though its a 30 min cd. well atleast warriors can charge to their target. as a warlock u just waddle around with 1k armor like a giant worm bait. free kill as alliance or without death coil (omega boring being dependant on this i win button) or without soul link with voidwalker but somehow the class is "op" while rogues, ele shaman, ret paladins, hunters and mages exist which don't only excel in 1 specific condition. BUT FEAR IS SO OP!!! yeah that spell that you can't cast because it takes u 6 seconds to use it while you're getting punched and rogue doesn't even bother kicking because of that fact?

fear needs overhaul to make it less crippling against people who dont know how to stop it but be more useful for people who know how to fake cast or find windows to cast it.