Rogue or Paladin?

[Vlad1994]

Greetings? I'm raising a rogue, but I'm thinking of making a paladin. If I had to choose between a rogue and a paladin in terms of DPS in PvP/PvE, which would be the better choice? Any advices?

[Mackylol]

Paladin ofcourse, rogue is okay -- but paladin is op.

[Feomatar]

Paladin ofcourse, rogue is okay -- but paladin is op.

rogue is the worst class for pvp on twow.

[Bigsmerf]

Paladin if your focus is PvP, and rogue if your focus is PvE. I would still go paladin for either though because even if you're intending to DPS your healing and tanking specs still exist if you are ever needed to swap to those. Rogue doesn't have much in terms of flexibility. It's essentially just a big damage pumper with not much else to bring aside from that. They're pretty alright in PvP though.

[Majestik51]

from the answers u get here u can see no1 plays pvp they all pve players.

Subtlety Rogue is the master of PVP, 1v1 no1 can defeat u, yes except the overpowered palas in some situations, but if u manage to play good the Rogue class then u will have 90% winrate on 1v1.

to play rogue u need brain, to play pala u need 1 finger only.

[Gantulga]

from the answers u get here u can see no1 plays pvp they all pve players.

Subtlety Rogue is the master of PVP, 1v1 no1 can defeat u, yes except the overpowered palas in some situations, but if u manage to play good the Rogue class then u will have 90% winrate on 1v1.

to play rogue u need brain, to play pala u need 1 finger only.

Rogue is lower mid tier in PvP here, just slightly above memes like enhancement shaman.

[Majestik51]

i didnt level a 60 rogue yet in Turtle. but a subtlety rogue is the best pvp class/spec generally in wow.

rogue can keep u immobilized for 24 hours in a day if he wants, before he kills u.
i dont think that any other class can counter all these stuns and ccs of rogues. (except pre pala-bubble ofc :D)

the only way that rogue is not good in pvp is to remove completely the subtlety talent card.
what has been changed in turtle? as i said im not familiar with an end game rogue....

[Gantulga]

i didnt level a 60 rogue yet in Turtle.

It shows.

but a subtlety rogue is the best pvp class/spec generally in wow.

That's never been true. Even in base 1.12 rogue is in the middle of the pack.

rogue can keep u immobilized for 24 hours in a day if he wants, before he kills u.

That's not possible, diminishing returns exist.

i dont think that any other class can counter all these stuns and ccs of rogues. (except pre pala-bubble ofc :D)

Most classes can. Rogue only has a couple matchups in his favor.

what has been changed in turtle?

Massive buffs to most other classes while rogue hasn't received any and also suffers from multiple bugs and ancient mechanics like old combo points that no other server (classic included) has.

[Majestik51]

ok i see what u mean. i will answer to u better when i get my rogue to 60 then...

[Feomatar]

from the answers u get here u can see no1 plays pvp they all pve players.

Subtlety Rogue is the master of PVP, 1v1 no1 can defeat u, yes except the overpowered palas in some situations, but if u manage to play good the Rogue class then u will have 90% winrate on 1v1.

to play rogue u need brain, to play pala u need 1 finger only.

Tournament for 100 000 $, best players of their classes, in blue-green gear where rogues is most powerfull, no dwarfs who counter hard rogues, no buffs of other classes what they get in twow @ rogues get whiped HARD... So its only 2 possible conclusions about your statement vs the lot of money tournament results:
1. Players Like Pshero are just bad rogues and majestic51 woud win 100k $ easy as rogue because rogues ARE best 1v1 class.
2. majestic51 is delusional backpedaller who doesnt know how to play vs rogues and what consumables to use, and rogues ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE the best 1v1 class in the game even WITHOUT huge buffs what other classes BUT rogues get in twow.
You know, i dont want to offend your imaginary world in your head, but i think that second option is more realistic, ok? Shoking right?

[Majestik51]

ok smart guy what do u show me 25 lvl tournament? lol what is this warcraft rumble? xD xD

[Feomatar]

ok smart guy what do u show me 25 lvl tournament? lol what is this warcraft rumble? xD xD

Are u blind or something? Its 60 lvl mak'gora tournament for 100K $, u cant like open stream on actual matches? Once again - Pshero and rogues of his lvl of play and higher was r@ped HARD vs blue-green geared opponents (hardcore server duels for permadeath) where rgues have the most power in the game, and it was blizz classic without any of changes, so best classic rogues in the world (Pshero and others) sucking cock in tournament in blizz cassic without changes, but you whine about rogues in twow where rogues get only bugs while other classes get fucking fuge buffs? Like literally rogues is who needed buffs yet the only one who DOESNT GET ANY. But creatures like you just are too bad\lazy\stupid to buy freaking consumables to counter the fuck out any rogues in pvp, and even too lazy\stupid\bad to watch freaking stream and see how to counter rogues with basically 2 consumables... Nvm, i think your disability already in terminal stage... You cant even watch the freaking stream...

[Krotux]

People on twow are terrible at pvp. Funny that they say rogue is the worst lol. I should have rolled a rogue again.

[Feomatar]

People on twow are terrible at pvp. Funny that they say rogue is the worst lol. I should have rolled a rogue again.

Yea, so why you not win tournaments on blizz classic without changes? I think u can show me, pshero, pff i think u even can win easy Biron (Reckfull) if he wasnt dead right? I think u played at 2800 at arena tournament, constantly play vs hydramist? No? So i think your statements are irrelevant. I freaking link you tournament with one of the best players of their classes and rogues lost like a crap in this tournament, yet twow buffed every single class but rogues, so on twow rogues even 'better"... But nah, you are the Great Cornhollio - undefeated backpedaller who play better than any big name rogues in the world, waow, twow devs seems listen to you and make this hilariously good balance. So when you will win next big tournament and teach us, baddies, how to win everthing as an overpowered rogues?

[Ataika]

Bro believe me bro look bro there is a Makgora torunament bro rogues do not perform there bro that means rogues the strongest class always has been in vanilla are weak bro trust me bro iam an experienced pvper bro i've watched all Makgora series bro

[Majestik51]

ok smart guy what do u show me 25 lvl tournament? lol what is this warcraft rumble? xD xD

Are u blind or something? Its 60 lvl mak'gora tournament for 100K $, u cant like open stream on actual matches? Once again - Pshero and rogues of his lvl of play and higher was r@ped HARD vs blue-green geared opponents (hardcore server duels for permadeath) where rgues have the most power in the game, and it was blizz classic without any of changes, so best classic rogues in the world (Pshero and others) sucking cock in tournament in blizz cassic without changes, but you whine about rogues in twow where rogues get only bugs while other classes get fucking fuge buffs? Like literally rogues is who needed buffs yet the only one who DOESNT GET ANY. But creatures like you just are too bad\lazy\stupid to buy freaking consumables to counter the fuck out any rogues in pvp, and even too lazy\stupid\bad to watch freaking stream and see how to counter rogues with basically 2 consumables... Nvm, i think your disability already in terminal stage... You cant even watch the freaking stream...

Thats it, tell me ur ingame name NOW, u declared it a war. i will destroy ur @ss... just test me.

and first of all i said i didnt play a 60 rogue in Twow yet and i never cursed on u u idiot kid, so stfu and learn how to talk u nolifer blizzard c.sucker.....

[Krotux]

People on twow are terrible at pvp. Funny that they say rogue is the worst lol. I should have rolled a rogue again.

Yea, so why you not win tournaments on blizz classic without changes? I think u can show me, pshero, pff i think u even can win easy Biron (Reckfull) if he wasnt dead right? I think u played at 2800 at arena tournament, constantly play vs hydramist? No? So i think your statements are irrelevant. I freaking link you tournament with one of the best players of their classes and rogues lost like a crap in this tournament, yet twow buffed every single class but rogues, so on twow rogues even 'better"... But nah, you are the Great Cornhollio - undefeated backpedaller who play better than any big name rogues in the world, waow, twow devs seems listen to you and make this hilariously good balance. So when you will win next big tournament and teach us, baddies, how to win everthing as an overpowered rogues?

? You guys are bad, it doesn't mean people in general are bad in blizz classic. No hate, I love twow but its true. Skill level here is really low compared to blizz classic with regards to pvp.

I'm prob not good enough to win actual tournaments in blizz classic, nor have the desire to play on blizz servers ever again. However, I think I have a good shot at winning at twow pvp tourney if that ever is a thing. I didn't roll a rogue, so it wouldn't mean much anyways for this discussion.

[Majestik51]

hes a spoiled child who needs a lesson, i just need his in game name, and i hope he plays alliance....

[Dreadones02]

Answering cause it 2 years anniversary of this post. Lol

[FrankFankledank]

We call this learning the hard way lmao

[amanagor]

i didnt level a 60 rogue yet in Turtle. but a subtlety rogue is the best pvp class/spec generally in wow.

rogue can keep u immobilized for 24 hours in a day if he wants, before he kills u.
i dont think that any other class can counter all these stuns and ccs of rogues. (except pre pala-bubble ofc :D)

the only way that rogue is not good in pvp is to remove completely the subtlety talent card.
what has been changed in turtle? as i said im not familiar with an end game rogue....

Thats simply not true. Dueling tournaments on classic featuring some of wows best pvpers have shown rogue to be mid, outmached in 1v1 by quite a few specs.

[Gantulga]

i didnt level a 60 rogue yet in Turtle. but a subtlety rogue is the best pvp class/spec generally in wow.

rogue can keep u immobilized for 24 hours in a day if he wants, before he kills u.
i dont think that any other class can counter all these stuns and ccs of rogues. (except pre pala-bubble ofc :D)

the only way that rogue is not good in pvp is to remove completely the subtlety talent card.
what has been changed in turtle? as i said im not familiar with an end game rogue....

Thats simply not true. Dueling tournaments on classic featuring some of wows best pvpers have shown rogue to be mid, outmached in 1v1 by quite a few specs.

That's on classic. Here they're much, much worse compared to other classes.

[amanagor]

i didnt level a 60 rogue yet in Turtle. but a subtlety rogue is the best pvp class/spec generally in wow.

rogue can keep u immobilized for 24 hours in a day if he wants, before he kills u.
i dont think that any other class can counter all these stuns and ccs of rogues. (except pre pala-bubble ofc :D)

the only way that rogue is not good in pvp is to remove completely the subtlety talent card.
what has been changed in turtle? as i said im not familiar with an end game rogue....

Thats simply not true. Dueling tournaments on classic featuring some of wows best pvpers have shown rogue to be mid, outmached in 1v1 by quite a few specs.

That's on classic. Here they're much, much worse compared to other classes.

yes but his post was about classic. that being said, here a bis rogue will bring a bis geared ele with tank talents down to 30% health in the first stunlock and with a blind follow up, only way to not die in cc chain is to use trinket + lip on second stunlock, or LAP

[Gantulga]

Thats simply not true. Dueling tournaments on classic featuring some of wows best pvpers have shown rogue to be mid, outmached in 1v1 by quite a few specs.

That's on classic. Here they're much, much worse compared to other classes.

yes but his post was about classic. that being said, here a bis rogue will bring a bis geared ele with tank talents down to 30% health in the first stunlock and with a blind follow up, only way to not die in cc chain is to use trinket + lip on second stunlock, or LAP

The shaman (an all other classes) have two easy counters to rogue (trinket+lap). The rogue has no real answers to what others classes do.

[amanagor]

That's on classic. Here they're much, much worse compared to other classes.

yes but his post was about classic. that being said, here a bis rogue will bring a bis geared ele with tank talents down to 30% health in the first stunlock and with a blind follow up, only way to not die in cc chain is to use trinket + lip on second stunlock, or LAP

The shaman (an all other classes) have two easy counters to rogue (trinket+lap). The rogue has no real answers to what others classes do.

blind or prep blind if the trinket is after the first blind. Either way that would be instant win for rogue with absolutly 0 counter play.

[FrankFankledank]

People are talking about Rogues in PvP as if dueling outside of Orgrimmar was the chief method of gaining honor. It isn't, large-scale group objective control is and Rogues get piled on the moment they show themselves anywhere near the bulk of the group and so are relegated to flag room sapping and attacking AV towers.

[amanagor]

People are talking about Rogues in PvP as if dueling outside of Orgrimmar was the chief method of gaining honor. It isn't, large-scale group objective control is and Rogues get piled on the moment they show themselves anywhere near the bulk of the group and so are relegated to flag room sapping and attacking AV towers.

all classes have their strengths and weakesses. In av rogue is good at harassing, recapping bunkers/ or capping towers in advance. In ab they are good at getting ninja caps, especially if 2 rogues play together. In warsong they are good at defending the flag room and making the efc pop cds to get out. They are also necessary to catch an enemy efc once it has has the flag when they are repositioning following a push, and letting team connect with them. Rogues are not made for a mid fight, if you play to a classes weakness, obviously you are going to have a bad time. If you play to the classes strengths, its going to be fine. And you will realise that rogue is actually quite good in pvp currently. Its just a skill issue with most rogues not understanding their role in bgs.

[Gantulga]

People are talking about Rogues in PvP as if dueling outside of Orgrimmar was the chief method of gaining honor. It isn't, large-scale group objective control is and Rogues get piled on the moment they show themselves anywhere near the bulk of the group and so are relegated to flag room sapping and attacking AV towers.

all classes have their strengths and weakesses. In av rogue is good at harassing, recapping bunkers/ or capping towers in advance. In ab they are good at getting ninja caps, especially if 2 rogues play together. In warsong they are good at defending the flag room and making the efc pop cds to get out. They are also necessary to catch an enemy efc once it has has the flag when they are repositioning following a push, and letting team connect with them. Rogues are not made for a mid fight, if you play to a classes weakness, obviously you are going to have a bad time. If you play to the classes strengths, its going to be fine. And you will realise that rogue is actually quite good in pvp currently. Its just a skill issue with most rogues not understanding their role in bgs.

Gaslighting now?

[Bigsmerf]

Back to say that I may or may not have been slightly wrong back when I posted ye olde year or so ago. Paladin is now objectively better at both things while probably being beat out by rogue in some niche situations my noob brain might not be aware of.

[Resnica]

yes but his post was about classic. that being said, here a bis rogue will bring a bis geared ele with tank talents down to 30% health in the first stunlock and with a blind follow up, only way to not die in cc chain is to use trinket + lip on second stunlock, or LAP

The shaman (an all other classes) have two easy counters to rogue (trinket+lap). The rogue has no real answers to what others classes do.

blind or prep blind if the trinket is after the first blind. Either way that would be instant win for rogue with absolutly 0 counter play.

You must have played as a Shaman and a Rogue for a long time! =) Don't forget about the totems that come on the macro after the blind or sap, don't forget about the counters and the shield in hand, in the best case scenario with your ideal conditions as you described, you might take 60% from the Shaman, but in return, you'll be left with nothing and vulnerable to his attacks to the point of 'one hit, one down!

[Resnica]

People are talking about Rogues in PvP as if dueling outside of Orgrimmar was the chief method of gaining honor. It isn't, large-scale group objective control is and Rogues get piled on the moment they show themselves anywhere near the bulk of the group and so are relegated to flag room sapping and attacking AV towers.

Well, he's a support! He should be given some kind of save for the group, like a buff or heal, or a self-sacrifice skill, so that he instantly gives up his HP and dies himself!
Also, he's a rogue, a trickster and a thief, you can only laugh at him and send him to the flag to guard the beer there, like an old-timer (((.

[Resnica]

People are talking about Rogues in PvP as if dueling outside of Orgrimmar was the chief method of gaining honor. It isn't, large-scale group objective control is and Rogues get piled on the moment they show themselves anywhere near the bulk of the group and so are relegated to flag room sapping and attacking AV towers.

all classes have their strengths and weakesses. In av rogue is good at harassing, recapping bunkers/ or capping towers in advance. In ab they are good at getting ninja caps, especially if 2 rogues play together. In warsong they are good at defending the flag room and making the efc pop cds to get out. They are also necessary to catch an enemy efc once it has has the flag when they are repositioning following a push, and letting team connect with them. Rogues are not made for a mid fight, if you play to a classes weakness, obviously you are going to have a bad time. If you play to the classes strengths, its going to be fine. And you will realise that rogue is actually quite good in pvp currently. Its just a skill issue with most rogues not understanding their role in bgs.

Well, you're talking about PvP, but you're bringing up BG gameplay! BG gameplay is team-based, and everyone has their role! The PvP aspect, especially what you mentioned about AV, is there but it's minimal! For fun, it's the most entertaining class! But in competitive PvP, with all the playtime and skills, it's currently rightfully the worst class in the game! Now, tell me, are you afraid of rogues? Do you fear them as much as you fear warlocks or shamans? And tell me, did you used to fear them? Compare the level of your objectivity! In a 2v2 arena, who would you prefer to see on the other side of the map at the start? =) Thank you! =)

[amanagor]

People are talking about Rogues in PvP as if dueling outside of Orgrimmar was the chief method of gaining honor. It isn't, large-scale group objective control is and Rogues get piled on the moment they show themselves anywhere near the bulk of the group and so are relegated to flag room sapping and attacking AV towers.

all classes have their strengths and weakesses. In av rogue is good at harassing, recapping bunkers/ or capping towers in advance. In ab they are good at getting ninja caps, especially if 2 rogues play together. In warsong they are good at defending the flag room and making the efc pop cds to get out. They are also necessary to catch an enemy efc once it has has the flag when they are repositioning following a push, and letting team connect with them. Rogues are not made for a mid fight, if you play to a classes weakness, obviously you are going to have a bad time. If you play to the classes strengths, its going to be fine. And you will realise that rogue is actually quite good in pvp currently. Its just a skill issue with most rogues not understanding their role in bgs.

Well, you're talking about PvP, but you're bringing up BG gameplay! BG gameplay is team-based, and everyone has their role! The PvP aspect, especially what you mentioned about AV, is there but it's minimal! For fun, it's the most entertaining class! But in competitive PvP, with all the playtime and skills, it's currently rightfully the worst class in the game! Now, tell me, are you afraid of rogues? Do you fear them as much as you fear warlocks or shamans? And tell me, did you used to fear them? Compare the level of your objectivity! In a 2v2 arena, who would you prefer to see on the other side of the map at the start? =) Thank you! =)

thats blantantly false. competitive pvp in vanilla and turtle wow is not 2V2, its bgs. Specficaly wsg and AB. and in both of those, rogue is very valuable in a premade setup... No one cares about bloodring, (which is a 3V3 btw not a 2V2). playing warsong, i much rather face a premade comp without a rogue than a premade comp with 1 rogue. The reason you think rogues are weak is because you think they should be played in the same way they are played on retail, and you think what is important in pvp is small squimishes... which is simply not the case in an objective focus game mode.

[Resnica]

all classes have their strengths and weakesses. In av rogue is good at harassing, recapping bunkers/ or capping towers in advance. In ab they are good at getting ninja caps, especially if 2 rogues play together. In warsong they are good at defending the flag room and making the efc pop cds to get out. They are also necessary to catch an enemy efc once it has has the flag when they are repositioning following a push, and letting team connect with them. Rogues are not made for a mid fight, if you play to a classes weakness, obviously you are going to have a bad time. If you play to the classes strengths, its going to be fine. And you will realise that rogue is actually quite good in pvp currently. Its just a skill issue with most rogues not understanding their role in bgs.

Well, you're talking about PvP, but you're bringing up BG gameplay! BG gameplay is team-based, and everyone has their role! The PvP aspect, especially what you mentioned about AV, is there but it's minimal! For fun, it's the most entertaining class! But in competitive PvP, with all the playtime and skills, it's currently rightfully the worst class in the game! Now, tell me, are you afraid of rogues? Do you fear them as much as you fear warlocks or shamans? And tell me, did you used to fear them? Compare the level of your objectivity! In a 2v2 arena, who would you prefer to see on the other side of the map at the start? =) Thank you! =)

thats blantantly false. competitive pvp in vanilla and turtle wow is not 2V2, its bgs. Specficaly wsg and AB. and in both of those, rogue is very valuable in a premade setup... No one cares about bloodring, (which is a 3V3 btw not a 2V2). playing warsong, i much rather face a premade comp without a rogue than a premade comp with 1 rogue. The reason you think rogues are weak is because you think they should be played in the same way they are played on retail, and you think what is important in pvp is small squimishes... which is simply not the case in an objective focus game mode.

Yes! =)

[funeh]

Paladin ofcourse, rogue is okay -- but paladin is op.

rogue is the worst class for pvp on twow.

It has the highest skill ceiling, so you are wrong. Rogue is the strongest class for pvp, but hardest to master.