Post
by Kwayver » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:12 pm
There are many rebuttals to almost all suggestions I and others have made to improve the state of ret paladins on twow. Some of them are unfair however others do make good points.
Changes and suggestions all need to consider the following:
- ret burst in PvP is already quite good with seal of command in its current form. Any changes or additions to rotations and buffs have to consider the fact that if ret acquired any more burst than they presently have PvP will become unfair in their favour, and the devs will never go for it.
- twow devs have a philosophy in place for ret paladins which most of the community agree with: they are a support melee class which does damage. Any debate or idea around trading some or all support for damage doesn't fit the philosophy and moves them closer to warrior-lite.
- any shift towards melee/physical focused damage risks paladins competing for gear with warriors. Even though I personally have no problem with such competition the majority of the community will not go for it.
- each ability and even choice of gear should have purpose. What I mean is "ret paladins wear SP plate and hold a big slow 2h weapon and fish for procs"... But why? The best SP gear is usually cloth, and fishing for weapon procs would be better served by a fast 1h weapon. The main reason rets fish for procs is because seal of righteousness gives them 2 chances per swing to proc on-hit effects. This whole philosophy appears to be responsible for the current design of crusader strike. Is this the preferred play style for rets? Does this set them apart from other classes?
- ret is dependant on windfury totem to be viable in raid. Others may find this acceptable, personally I find being dependent on a single ability from another class which makes all other temporary weapon enchants obsolete stupid and unbalanced class design.
-----
Considering the above I believe the following suggestions will make ret playstyle more fun for the player, make ret more valuable to a raid, and won't risk an imbalance from the class or impact other classes unfairly:
Seal of Command is very iconic but needs a change. It currently under performs by comparison to seal of righteousness in raid settings, but could be useful in other settings. Rather than redesigning it to take the place of SoR it should be situational much like the rest of rets tool kit.
[Seal of Command] - your weapon swings hit your current target for 30% weapon damage (+23% SP scaling) and all targets within 10 yards of your target for half this damage as holy damage. Unleashing this seal gives the Paladin +20% melee haste for the next 2 weapon swings
(By lowering the overall single target damage of SoC we open up the class to other design changes without breaking PvP, and keep SoR as the preferred single target/raid seal. Sanctified command could remain as it is. Ranks should increase the attack speed award by something like 10/12/14/16/18/20% intervals)
Ret paladins need a reason to wield a 2h weapon and some value from AP, and they also have severe mana problems. They need a reliable solution, but not in such a way that allows holy paladins to abuse the mana regen or encourage ret to chase pure strength gear. This change would create a meaningful decision around how much AP your ret would actually need to sustain themselves.
[Two-hand weapon specialisation] - (in addition to its current effects) while using a 2 handed weapon the Paladin generates 2/4/6% of physical damage as mana.
The only situation I believe a ret Paladin should be competitive on dps meters is in Naxx, because this fits the philosophy and 'ashbringer' vibe most rets fantasize about. Exorcism (and somewhat holy wrath) are the gateway to this, although I also appreciate some would like to see it become part of the rotation, and I respect the concern others have about it providing too much burst. It's a tricky problem to solve, however I think the best approach to this isn't a permanent investment in the talent tree or the spell book, but rather a choice renamed by a different book: the Libram.
[Libram of the Dusk] - your exorcism can now be used on all targets, but damages the Paladin for 50% of damage caused.
[Libram of the Dawn] - reduces the cooldown of exorcism by 50% and reduces your healing by 50%
(Pick your Libram based on your situation)
The ret tree final row ability is certainly lackluster for raid scenarios. Repentance has many uses but personally i find myself using it as a gap closer most of the time in PvP. Perhaps it would be better suited elsewhere in the talent tree or made baseline, however if I were to suggest a more appealing final row talent to replace it entirely and see usefulness in both PvE and PvP I would suggest the following:
[Sanctified Ground] your consecration provides friendly units within its area +10% movement speed and +5% spell damage
(Main purpose here being to boost damage from other hybrids and rogue poisons, prevent causing warriors to become even more powerful than they already are, and providing a gap closer/escape for the Paladin in PvP)
Finally, I would like to address windfury. It wouldn't be fair to change a shamen ability just to fix a ret problem, so we should have alternatives to consider rather than defaulting to "plz put me in the melee grp with shammy plz"
[Sanctity Aura] increases group holy damage by 5% and sanctifies their melee weapons, giving attacks a chance to strike for additional holy damage. This attack can proc seals and on-hit effects
(By tieing this effect into an aura it provides versatile choice. Paladin wants WF instead of sanctified wep? Change aura. Other group members in raid want WF instead? Put the Paladin in another group. Reason for the damage nerf is to balance it with previously mentioned consecration talent idea. Essentially replaces WF with a seal-twist-of-command)
-----
If any of the numeric values seem overpowered or underpowered they can be tweaked to balance.
