Give me Crusader Strike at level 40 because its mortal strike on crack... AND on level 10... I want to keep the classic

[Manu3091]

Title: Give me Crusader Strike at level 40 because its mortal strike on crack... AND on level 10... I want to keep the classic feeling of vanilla and not onehit everything for no reason

I want to keep the classic feel of leveling. That still was present in TBC (where we first got crusader strike as an ability in official wow) but you got it on 50 not on 10 and it was way way weaker. Like 75% weapon damage and some mana cost... nothing more.

So if you could at least now make crusader strike be a level 40 ability or maybe even level 50 because its so fucking overpowered... its REALLY JUST LIKE MORTAL STRIKE... BUT on top of it you also get up to 9% attackspeed...

That change wouldnt change anything at all for endgame content but would make my most beloved leveling phase of classic not way too easy... And its not complete turbo boring vanilla classic pala with only hit and seals and no ability at all. We still have holy strike and credit where its due I think this new ability on the other hand is PERFECT and it fits the Class ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. Give the guy who designed that a raise and the one who designed the other one...well... tell him he should have made the ability not unlock on 10 but rather on 40 like its mortal strike for palas or 50 like in tbc because its way too op as i said... thank you.

And while leveling you could always be looking forward towards something (the crusader strike on 40 or 50)

Like when im leveling Warrior im looking forward to finally getting my mortal Strike. Because my leveling speed improves tremendously. Its the carrot that motivates you to keep going... because leveling in classic is WORK and this WORK gets easier on mortal strike and THAT feels very rewarding... Thats then very fun just like a game should be. And not shove it up my ass for free... thats not why vanilla was good...

[Vidnar]

Simply put, no.
To elaborate: you compare a class with a full melee kit and its capstone hard hitting ability with unique effect
To a class that finally got something to semi decent melee kit and you want it to be... Aviable after almost beeting half of the leveling process?
You talk about how hs is PERFECT but fail to mention that, as crusader strike, it doesnt procc seals, only judgements on the target AND IT SHARES CD.
Tldr: as a warrior, you have a choice during leveling. Paladins finally got something to get on par with other hybrids. At best you just dont know what youre talking about. At worst youre just another kin of Mantlet or Wraithwever who wants to keep paladins as shitty class cause "muh Vanilla"

[Dannyp92]

I agree a 100 %. With the new class changes, leveling feels closer to WotLK (or beyond) than Vanilla, which is not fitting for a Vanilla+ server, imo. I mean, we're going for Vanilla+, not WotLK+ (or WotLK-). Keep the world somewhat dangerous, just like how it was meant to be originally!

[Zanooda]

I've got a solution fot TS - just don't use CS till 40 lvl.
Enjoy!

[Turbosaxophonic]

I've got a solution fot TS - just don't use CS till 40 lvl.
Enjoy!

That argument only has weight if you're talking about a single-player game.

[Czasku]

Paladins: we dont have offensive skills, please Fix
Also paladins: i want to melee swing for ever because muh vanilla

[Mundane]

How many buttons you wanna press? NONE!

[Zanooda]

I've got a solution fot TS - just don't use CS till 40 lvl.
Enjoy!

That argument only has weight if you're talking about a single-player game.

Give me Crusader Strike at level 40 because its mortal strike on crack... AND on level 10... I want to keep the classic feeling of vanilla and not onehit everything for no reason. I want to keep the classic feel of leveling.

Why? TS want to feel pain and suffering. Let him suffer, I like changes and I'm OK.

[Manu3091]

How many buttons you wanna press? NONE!

That shows how you got no clue about what youre talking about. how many buttons are we objectively pressing? RIGHT NOW? tell me? ONE every 6 seconds. And instead of one every 6 seconds that is just BETTER in any way shape or form than the other for leveling we are LITERALLY just pressing 1 button every 6 seconds.

because tell me? why would I use Holy Strike over Crusader Strike while leveling and not being in a party of 5 other melee mana users that can use the mana from holy strike?

there isnt. Its objectively worse. You kill the mob much faster with CS and its not even close and never ever outweighing the 12 or something HP each 6 seconds from holy strike.

[Manu3091]

Paladins: we dont have offensive skills, please Fix
Also paladins: i want to melee swing for ever because muh vanilla

Im glad how you can so nonchalantly just not read this whole paragraph and think youre funny while acting dumb

"And its not complete turbo boring vanilla classic pala with only hit and seals and no ability at all. We still have holy strike and credit where its due I think this new ability on the other hand is PERFECT and it fits the Class ABSOLUTELY PERFECT"

[Manu3091]

I've got a solution fot TS - just don't use CS till 40 lvl.
Enjoy!

That argument only has weight if you're talking about a single-player game.

Give me Crusader Strike at level 40 because its mortal strike on crack... AND on level 10... I want to keep the classic feeling of vanilla and not onehit everything for no reason. I want to keep the classic feel of leveling.

Why? TS want to feel pain and suffering. Let him suffer, I like changes and I'm OK.

What you like is that game that is called World of Warcraft - Wrath of the Lich King. Can you answer the question why you are playing turtle wow over Warmane? you have the freedom of choice dont you? and In Wotlk pala fits exactly your vision doesnt it?

[Czasku]

Paladins: we dont have offensive skills, please Fix
Also paladins: i want to melee swing for ever because muh vanilla

Im glad how you can so nonchalantly just not read this whole paragraph and think youre funny while acting dumb

"And its not complete turbo boring vanilla classic pala with only hit and seals and no ability at all. We still have holy strike and credit where its due I think this new ability on the other hand is PERFECT and it fits the Class ABSOLUTELY PERFECT"

Don't shit charcoal. Paladin is good. If you dont like crusader strike at lvl 10 just don't use it until you reach level 40 or don't use it ever. Dumbass.

[Zanooda]

That argument only has weight if you're talking about a single-player game.

Give me Crusader Strike at level 40 because its mortal strike on crack... AND on level 10... I want to keep the classic feeling of vanilla and not onehit everything for no reason. I want to keep the classic feel of leveling.

Why? TS want to feel pain and suffering. Let him suffer, I like changes and I'm OK.

What you like is that game that is called World of Warcraft - Wrath of the Lich King. Can you answer the question why you are playing turtle wow over Warmane? you have the freedom of choice dont you? and In Wotlk pala fits exactly your vision doesnt it?

Nah, I've played warr tank on Vanilla and Classic and bear on WotLK. So I have no idea what "right" way to play pala, but I like changes that increase quality of my life like new HS and LFG, for example. My point is YOU have freedom of choice and can play white autoattack mode if you have vision how it should be. Just don't make me follow your choices.

[Mundane]

How many buttons you wanna press? NONE!

That shows how you got no clue about what youre talking about. how many buttons are we objectively pressing? RIGHT NOW? tell me? ONE every 6 seconds. And instead of one every 6 seconds that is just BETTER in any way shape or form than the other for leveling we are LITERALLY just pressing 1 button every 6 seconds.

because tell me? why would I use Holy Strike over Crusader Strike while leveling and not being in a party of 5 other melee mana users that can use the mana from holy strike?

there isnt. Its objectively worse. You kill the mob much faster with CS and its not even close and never ever outweighing the 12 or something HP each 6 seconds from holy strike.

You can absolutely choose Holy Strike over Crusader strike if you are running fast one hander.
Maybe you are pressing one button every 6 seconds, good for you, continue doing that. I will continue pressing judgemenent and put seals back on every 8 seconds on top of that.

[Manu3091]

Why? TS want to feel pain and suffering. Let him suffer, I like changes and I'm OK.

What you like is that game that is called World of Warcraft - Wrath of the Lich King. Can you answer the question why you are playing turtle wow over Warmane? you have the freedom of choice dont you? and In Wotlk pala fits exactly your vision doesnt it?

Nah, I've played warr tank on Vanilla and Classic and bear on WotLK. So I have no idea what "right" way to play pala, but I like changes that increase quality of my life like new HS and LFG, for example. My point is YOU have freedom of choice and can play white autoattack mode if you have vision how it should be. Just don't make me follow your choices.

yea but wow design is very simple. at this point we know there can only be 2 design philosophies...

There is WoW vanilla which accidentally got a masterpiece with some flaws that still is so good that thousands of people come back to it...

coming up with solutions to these flaws requires one of two philosophies... I think your philosophy leads to Wrath of the Lich King Paladin... It only requires common sense thinking you see vanilla paladins flaws: then you can use common sense and say: ok Pala has too low damage... that means he needs more damage. Thats what I call the retail philosophy and that leads to retail- (minus because 4 devs cant make what blizzard staff did back in the day it will just feel like retail tbc and wrath but on an amateur level)

Or you could use a vanilla + philosophy... thinking outside of the box basically... but that philosophy doesnt exist yet... and no one seems to want to make one atleast from what ive seen and thats why we (so far) literally heading into retail- and theyre not even hiding it. Karazhan raid just like in TBC Paladin unlocking full kit on level 10 LITERALLY what is happening in 2024 retail RIGHT NOW and just geting straight up way more damage without any repercussions (a repercussion could have been that we would have to work for this way too op Crusader Strike ability and not just get it after finishing coldridge valley tutorial zone)... what comes next? better graphics than on retail? oh wait that is exactly whats happening with UE5... its the retail philosophy and I want to go against that because almost anyone except the addicted esports players agrees that Retail is shit. And dont get me wrong better graphics are something good... better graphics=objectively better its just that simple. But we are not getting anything else that comes from a vanilla+ philosophy... Better graphics is obv common sense but this common sense always led to retail- so far... literally just like in SoD thats the best example of that retail- instead of vanilla+ philosophy.

[Educhagasfarias]

I really can't understand your complaint, the paladin in WoW Turtle keeps doing the same thing as in normal Vanilla, in fact, every 6 seconds you press a button, and during those 6 seconds you do the same thing as always, seal, judgment , seal and many automatic attacks, so my friend, I can't understand your indignation, and as you said in another comment about going to Warmane, I recommend you leave wow turtle and go to an official server, as you don't want to play with changes in the paladin, or continue playing warrior, as you love to receive a good skill only in the middle of leveling

[FrankFankledank]

Simply put, no.
To elaborate: you compare a class with a full melee kit and its capstone hard hitting ability with unique effect
To a class that finally got something to semi decent melee kit and you want it to be... Aviable after almost beeting half of the leveling process?

Warriors don't get a proper instant attack until Whirlwind in their 30s. Paladins still would have Holy Strike and Judgements as part of their levelling kit.

OP is absolutely right, giving a class like Paladin their mega attack in their teens reeks of Cataclysm design, which is fine, if every class is designed that way. Only Rogues have the crux of their abilities given off the bat, and that's what makes them such a huge issue in the twinking scene. Paladins don't need to fill that niche in addition to every single other one except ranged DPS (and they got REAL mad when that was taken from them)

[Neechy]

While I agree with this thread, you guys have to keep in mind that when you provide valid and constructive feedback like this, you are just being haters. A bunch of big meanies, the lot of you. Don't like these changes? Go make your own server. Simple as that!

[Huma]

paladin beeing trash at leveling for 16 years but turtle make it actually worth to play and people dont like it xDD go play classic era mate

[Turbosaxophonic]

paladin beeing trash at leveling for 16 years but turtle make it actually worth to play and people dont like it xDD go play classic era mate

He didn’t ask for its removal, he’s asking it to be unlocked at a more appropriate level. By your reasoning you can go to SoD/Cata if you like unlocking major abilities this early.

[Bigsmerf]

paladin beeing trash at leveling for 16 years but turtle make it actually worth to play and people dont like it xDD go play classic era mate

He didn’t ask for its removal, he’s asking it to be unlocked at a more appropriate level. By your reasoning you can go to SoD/Cata if you like unlocking major abilities this early.

The first 40 levels are a pretty big part of levelling. Even making crusader strike a 40 ability would be a big impact which was the point of the post you're so brazenly judging under the impression that THEY'RE making stupid assumptions.

[Turbosaxophonic]

The first 40 levels are a pretty big part of levelling. Even making crusader strike a 40 ability would be a big impact which was the point of the post you're so brazenly judging under the impression that THEY'RE making stupid assumptions.

I said what I did because the canned response of “if you don’t like it then go play Classic” is an asinine suggestion that's been done to death and is exhausting to keep seeing.

You would still have Holy Strike to use, and it wouldn’t even change the amount of buttons to press since they share a cooldown. Even if 40 is somehow too long to go without Crusader Strike and its precious Zeal stacks (by the way don’t drop those stacks! better kill that innocent and defenseless rabbit to keep them up, O’ noble and righteous Holy Knight!), then it can at least be unlocked at 30 or even 20.

As it is, unlocking Holy Strike at 8 and then Crusader Strike at 10 is sloppy pacing at best. At worst, it's an intrusive convolution of plate-spinning to both a level bracket and class that's meant to be simple and low-maintenance. The whopping two levels between Holy and Crusader Strike aside; I wouldn't find Crusader Strike so unwelcome if (rather than a fantasy-breaking bloodthirsty momentum that would better fit a Fury Warrior,) it instead stored charges up to three, and on the third charge you would get that limited-time buff window. That's just an alternative off the top of my head, it doesn't have to be the final and absolute solution.

[Dannyp92]

Leveling isn't fun (or rewarding) anymore when too much stuff is given to us for free and there's very low risk of dying because we got buffed so much.

[Allwynd01]

I agree a 100 %. With the new class changes, leveling feels closer to WotLK (or beyond) than Vanilla, which is not fitting for a Vanilla+ server, imo. I mean, we're going for Vanilla+, not WotLK+ (or WotLK-). Keep the world somewhat dangerous, just like how it was meant to be originally!

I'm still under the impression that zones in the 50-60 range are challenging, especially zones that are unique to Turtle WoW. I can't remember why the Turtle-specific zones are more difficult than their Vanilla counterparts, but I think it's because the mobs' HP is much higher so they take longer to take down. For zones like Silithus, Felwood, Eastern/Western Plaguelands, Burning Steppes, Un'Goro Crater, Winterspring, the mobs have more annoying abilities and in some cases, a lot of mobs are Elite so it's definitely more annoying. I remember the bats in Western Plaguelands being very annoying, because they can cause Fear on you and you end up running around, aggroing other mobs around you.

So I think the changes in Turtle WoW make that a little more bearable, but still annoying.

[FrankFankledank]

I'm still under the impression that zones in the 50-60 range are challenging, especially zones that are unique to Turtle WoW. I can't remember why the Turtle-specific zones are more difficult than their Vanilla counterparts, but I think it's because the mobs' HP is much higher so they take longer to take down. For zones like Silithus, Felwood, Eastern/Western Plaguelands, Burning Steppes, Un'Goro Crater, Winterspring, the mobs have more annoying abilities and in some cases, a lot of mobs are Elite so it's definitely more annoying. I remember the bats in Western Plaguelands being very annoying, because they can cause Fear on you and you end up running around, aggroing other mobs around you.

So I think the changes in Turtle WoW make that a little more bearable, but still annoying.

While fair, this isn't really relevant to the subject at hand, you are talking about an entirely different tier of PvE where everyone has just about every skill available.

[Allwynd01]

While fair, this isn't really relevant to the subject at hand, you are talking about an entirely different tier of PvE where everyone has just about every skill available.

The Crusader Strike ability isn't that helpful when mobs are too strong and too annoying. You can't really bypass that. The first 20 levels of the game are very easy and predictable. Before Crusader Strike, it was just slower, because you use Seals and auto attack, now you actually have an active ability that deals DMG. And that's something the Paladin has always been lacking. It was doable without it, but with it, it's just more fun.

PvE leveling, in fact has more to do with it - Turtle WoW needs to make zones for every bracket - 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 50-60 so players have more alternative leveling options. Like a cross-faction zone for 1-10 and 10-20 where Alliance and Horde can meet up and work together will be pretty cool. Also, if those zones share the same design philosophy of already existing Turtle WoW zones, they will already be difficult enough so the argument that Crusader Strike is making things too easy will be nullified. In fact, all Vanilla zones should have their mobs slightly buffed with more HP, MP, AP and special abilities to make them more challenging and interesting.

[Steakhouse]

I do agree that crusader strike is a nuuuuutty power spike for level 8 and it being immediately followed by holy strike might be a little too good for how early we get em. Maybe moving one at 30 ? Holy strike feels like the more low-level-appropriate of the two.

[Vidnar]

You all folks seem to forget about something: Crusader Strike and Holy Strike share CD and only proc Seal of Wisdom.
So, you want Crusader Strike at higher level? Fine, sure.
But dont act like you can chain those two.
Balance it with not shareable CD, make them proc seals. Just something. Cause right now it starts to turn into OG Vanilla mentality of "Hybrids can do lots of things so they suck at everything."
And with self heal nerf on holy strike? Its better to use flash of light.

[Steakhouse]

It's just that snagging crusader strike at lvl 8 nearly doubles your DPS. You turn from one of the worst low level classes to one of the best thanks to it.