Hardcore and what it brings

[Sardes]

Hello to developers, admins and players of this wonderfull server.
First of all, I urge you all who will want to answer this topic, do not try to reconsider me, I have my point of view and that's all. So I will not argue with you. All I want that devs and admins hears me. I did not put it in suggestions because right now there is no I can suggest.
Second, while I understand, why server owners wanted to add hardcore feature, right now this has a very heavy flaw for the whole server - splitting the comunity. The number of players who plays with hardcore mode, is about 30% of total online of 1-59 lvls or even more. It means that we have, let say, not bad online, but in fact it much much lower. The result - troubles with looking for a group for elite quests and dungeons, less active auction, than it could be, and all other problems of low online. New players may leave because of that. As for hardcore, it is not truly hardcore as somebody might expect, with the ability to do grey quests and grinding, it just longer and more borring, but not "harder".
So, all I want that server owners, admins and devs review hardcore feature and either make it more hardcore (for example, penalty for green and grey quests) or allow hardcore players to join groups with non-hardcore, with some limitations, like not getting exp and quest items with player 5 lvl higher in group.
While it is not too late, think about it.

[Redmagejoe]

I think something you're not considering about the implementation of hardcore is that it brings players that otherwise would not play on the server. It is something novel and fresh for long-time players who don't just want to play vanilla WoW for the 100th time. I can vouch for at least two of my friends on the server in this regard. When they hit 60, then, they become integrated with the rest of the community, and that investment in the server may translate to new alts that are not hardcore.

Think of it like a loss leader at a store. Sure, they're not able to fully integrate with the community right away, but they have been drawn into the server and are now more likely to continue to patronize the service. This is aided by a sense of community established by being within the hardcore guild, which is something of a support network for hardcore characters.

I understand your points about "dividing" the community, but I think that they overlook the fact that this is overall actually healthy for the population and that "division" is only temporary, not lifelong such as, say... Oh, I don't know, dividing the population in half with 2 factions.

[Znixen]

More hardcore? it is pretty hardcore as it is,

About grouping with non-hardcore chars, i don't want to do that be course they have multiple lives and if they die that is not an issue. i see "careless" non-hardcore player all the time rushing into a pack of mobs and dying leaving us hardcore to deal with a potentially dangerous situation

Also agree that hardcore feature has attracted alot of players as well

[Sardes]

The point is that total online is not grows (at least fast enogh), but number of hardcore grows. At this moment (when I write that message) is 400 total, more than 50 is 60 and 100 hardcore! So its 100 hardcore and 250 is normal for 1-59. It is HUGE separation. And month ago total online was almost the same, but number of hardcore players was much lower.
If it continue like that soon it will be 50% separation of 1-59. I just dont understand, we make a crossfaction groups and questing to combine players, and along with that we split non-hardcore and hardcore.
And this server is not x3, x5, x10 or else, its x1 ! So the way from 1 to 59 is not a fast run to join the rest of community and separation is matters.
About making it more hardcore: you can level with grey quests and farming green mobs - it is NOT hardcore at all. It means that hardcore players had a choice to not take any risk at all and still level to 60. And yes, it is what I see with my eyes, there is a streamer who levels like that and it works. He admit that with that way he do not worry at all that he can die. All I wanted to say that if they have to take a risk, it will be lower of those who want to level as hardcore and they choose to level normal.

[Redmagejoe]

It's good that the server is x1, or I would leave. Turtle WoW is built on enjoying the WoW experience, not turbo-leveling.

And you continue to bang on the drum of separation, ignoring the fact that there's still nothing keeping you from working alongside an HC character albeit outside of a party on the overworld. I really don't see how this detracts at all from the community. You also keep talking about the total population during peak downtime (400) and don't talk about the peak uptime (900-1000 I've seen in the last few weeks) and the average between those times. The population could be higher, yes, but for a private server is quite healthy.

[Sardes]

If you dont see difference between join a group to do elite quests and dungeons or working with HC without a party (I dont get it how you see this??? and for what?), then its nothing to discuss with you. I see difference, its obvious, and I hope devs see it too.
What about downtime and uptime, during uptime there is more HC players, so separation will be the same. Its obviously, why you stating that?
But I repeat, its up to devs and admins to agree with me or not and ignore, its just my point of view. I will play here still , if I can find a group for dungs and quests. But some players still say that playing here is like solo, and this is with 600-700 average online, and thats why they drop playing here. And hardcore split leads to this.

[Torta]

Greetings :) Thank you for your feedback!

However, it's too late. We have introduced Hardcore Mode a year ago and our rules since then have never changed. We would like to maintain further consistency in this matter.

The reason behind this decision: we want every HC to level in similar conditions and with the same rules, w/o opening a window for speculations that the mode is becoming less challenging over time.

[Redmagejoe]

But some players still say that playing here is like solo, and this is with 600-700 average online, and thats why they drop playing here. And hardcore split leads to this.

Well unfortunately, those players' opinions are invalid. I will not argue this further, as Staff has made their decision above. I am very weary after 20+ years of being among online communities of the vocal minority making mountains out of molehills or complaining about non-existent problems. I have never had issues at almost any time of day finding players for groups, while being able to find dungeon groups 80% of the 24-hour clock.

[Kelmack]

Hi, new player here. Just one data point, but I personally am playing on Turtle because of the HC mode, so my (admittedly worthless) vote is to leave it as is.

Perhaps the community as a whole is divided because of this mode, but as pointed out before some players would not have joined without it, me included. Notably, the community within <Still Alive> is quite convivial, helpful and friendly. I would imagine that players coming out of this self-selected group at 60 will great additions to general community.

To the other point that it promotes slow playing: I'm not sure why this is criticism on Turtle in the first place. Yes, there is an obvious incentive to quest below level, but even as an under geared warrior I can pick my battles and quest at level without too much difficulty (just lots of bandages). It feels more a choice than a necessity. Plus, I'm enjoying re-exploring as much of the open world content as I can and the occasional 4 on 1, run like heck, survive with 10% health dynamic is lots of fun.

While it may not be necessarily hard, it certainly can be, and I'm more invested in this character than I've been in a WoW toon in a long time. In all, I think the devs did a great job. Definitely looking forward to what they bring us next patch.

[Riverkill]

Turtle's HC mode is the best around. It's why I'm here, the same is true for many others. We're a minority of the population, there are plenty of non-HC characters for you to group with without compromising the integrity of HC mode.

[Fairrow]

The number of players who plays with hardcore mode, is about 30% of total online of 1-59 lvls or even more. It means that we have, let say, not bad online, but in fact it much much lower.

I don't know about every other HC player, but I wouldn't be on the server if it wasn't for the HC feature. Those 30% of the player-base enjoying HC would leave if the feature is removed.

[Tarok]

Same, only here for HC and the experience of it. I don't want to rush it, so I'm exhausted + slow & steady HC. Every fight matters, every decision matters. End game isn't my thing and normal is boring. This style of hardcore is the true WoW experience to me, where I can actually level up my profession alongside my real level and make use of it. The auction house isn't there for me to just lean on and buy / sell from, I have to work with others. It's much more engaging.

[Redmagejoe]

I don't think there's a need to bump this thread any further. Let's let it die or ask staff to close it. It was ultimately a completely unconstructive post by a player with ungrounded assertions.