Let's talk about PvP system!

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Torta
Posts: 744

Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Torta » Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:12 pm

Greetings! Let's daydream a bit, turtles. If you'd like entirely different PvP system in Vanilla WoW, what it'd be?

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Leozan
Posts: 35

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Leozan » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:11 pm

I’d favor a more horizontal progression where the main divide against old and new players is mostly skill based than gear based.

As for a system implementation, I’d guess expand or retune gear stat/requirments. There could also be lv 60 custom crafting quests given by battlemasters that simply have players turn crafting mats to get low grade starter pvp gear for new players (even have it look low grade, basic red vs blue cloth/leather/mail/plate armor). *I’ll have a better example of this end of the week.*
LEO'ZAN
Cartel Agent
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral

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Coun
Posts: 48

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Coun » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:12 pm

One that is less punishing for anyone who has a life, a job, responsibilities. If I could wish for two things, it'd be
- Reduced honor decay
- Even AV team sizes

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Qixel
Posts: 147

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Qixel » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:12 pm

Daydreaming, I'd like PvP to be entirely seperate. Let the pvpers have their own server. I've seen people go from laughing and having fun in Molten Core to actively wishing death upon people's families two hours later because of Warsong Gulch. PvP turns decent people into total rage monsters, and I would prefer not to have it here. Turtle was a really friendly place, even if it was small, and I'd like to keep it that way.

On a regular server, you can't talk to the opposite faction (originally, undead could speak common because obviously they know common, but Blizzard removed it because people were being jerks over pvp) so if you want to wish death upon someone's family due to pvp, you have to log out, make a character on the opposite faction (which you could not do on pvp servers for a long, long time because of exactly this), remember the name of the guy who upset you, then whisper him. It was a lot of work and caused people to calm the hell down before they got there. Here, though? Just click their name and start wishin' cancer. People say things in the heat of the moment, and it's not conductive to a friendly community. So either remove your ability to interact with others for a short time after engaging in pvp, or remove pvp entirely.

If you go the separate server route, you can add the pvp gear as drops to bosses, or as a reputation reward to encourage grinding. Anything that doesn't cause the server to have constant shitshows in world chat would be an improvement.

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Coun
Posts: 48

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Coun » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:16 pm

Qixel wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:12 pm
Your entire post can be summarized as "I don't like PvP and I don't want it where I play."

I like to PvP, and I wouldn't want to be "on a different server".

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Qixel
Posts: 147

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Qixel » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:18 pm

Coun wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:16 pm
Qixel wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:12 pm
Your entire post can be summarized as "I don't like PvP and I don't want it where I play."

I like to PvP, and I wouldn't want to be "on a different server".
My entire post can be summarized as "I like friendly servers, and I do not want this one ruined any more than it already has been."

I like to have fun, and I wouldn't want to be constantly exposed to crying over pvp.

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Leozan
Posts: 35

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Leozan » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:19 pm

Qixel wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:12 pm
Daydreaming, I'd like PvP to be entirely seperate. Let the pvpers have their own server. I've seen people go from laughing and having fun in Molten Core to actively wishing death upon people's families two hours later because of Warsong Gulch. PvP turns decent people into total rage monsters, and I would prefer not to have it here. Turtle was a really friendly place, even if it was small, and I'd like to keep it that way.

On a regular server, you can't talk to the opposite faction (originally, undead could speak common because obviously they know common, but Blizzard removed it because people were being jerks over pvp) so if you want to wish death upon someone's family due to pvp, you have to log out, make a character on the opposite faction (which you could not do on pvp servers for a long, long time because of exactly this), remember the name of the guy who upset you, then whisper him. It was a lot of work and caused people to calm the hell down before they got there. Here, though? Just click their name and start wishin' cancer. People say things in the heat of the moment, and it's not conductive to a friendly community. So either remove your ability to interact with others for a short time after engaging in pvp, or remove pvp entirely.

If you go the separate server route, you can add the pvp gear as drops to bosses, or as a reputation reward to encourage grinding. Anything that doesn't cause the server to have constant shitshows in world chat would be an improvement.
If players in the community are taking things too far, it’s up to the community to call out those individuals to the devs and get them removed/banned. Screenshot the hate speech chatlog and report it in, that should be enough proof for action I hope.
LEO'ZAN
Cartel Agent
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral

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Coun
Posts: 48

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Coun » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:21 pm

Leozan wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:11 pm
I’d favor a more horizontal progression where the main divide against old and new players is mostly skill based than gear based.

As for a system implementation, I’d guess expand or retune gear stat/requirments. There could also be lv 60 custom crafting quests given by battlemasters that simply have players turn crafting mats to get low grade starter pvp gear for new players (even have it look low grade, basic red vs blue cloth/leather/mail/plate armor). *I’ll have a better example of this end of the week.*
While I like your idea, the issue with "PvP gear for everyone" is that it would make a lot of late-game PvE redundant. Sure, PvP would be more "fair" if everyone had top gear. But if you give top gear to everyone who PvPs, people who raid would probably be pretty pissed about it.

What you could do is make PvP gear shitty or only usable in Battlegrounds or what not, but that again would harm PvP progression: As someone who does not raid, ranking is really my only way to get high-end gear. If I can't do that, what should I strive for? Trying to get better gear IS the main gameplay loop in WoW, be it PvP or PvE.

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Qixel
Posts: 147

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Qixel » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:23 pm

Leozan wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:19 pm
If players in the community are taking things too far, it’s up to the community to call out those individuals to the devs and get them removed/banned. Screenshot the hate speech chatlog and report it in, that should be enough proof for action I hope.
You misunderstand me. I do not want people banned for getting mad over pvp. Getting mad over pvp is pvp. People should not be punished for engaging in an aspect of the game. Those people wishing death upon their families were perfectly reasonable and nice players two hours prior, and they were again the next week. PvP is the common issue, not the players.

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Coun
Posts: 48

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Coun » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:24 pm

You want to get rid of PvP entirely, we get it. How does this help?

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Leftmousebutton
Posts: 5

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Leftmousebutton » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:24 pm

Although I'm sure it'd be a nightmare to figure out how to code this in a Vanilla system, something along the lines of Warfronts would be kind of cool. Something that harkens back to the spirit of the RTS days of which Vanilla was supposed to be a direct continuation of.

Maybe it could even have a small-scale playstyle option to where it's 3v3, like how you could only have three heroes in Warcraft III melee maps, and you fight alongside AI armies.

This would, of course, be pretty radically different from what most people are used to, so it would probably have to be a side option as opposed to a complete replacer. However, with the smaller scale I think it would be more condusive towards maintaining a friendly environment and even encourage some RP-PvP. For "regular" PvP, I agree with Qixel: it should have its own server.

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Gheor
Posts: 216

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Gheor » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:25 pm

No crossfaction lore bending BGs 😠
A sheet of paper and a pen can give birth to many things.

Gheor

Kratos

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Coun
Posts: 48

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Coun » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:27 pm

Well, on a more constructive note: A lot of things were discussed here already: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2018

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Qixel
Posts: 147

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Qixel » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:28 pm

Coun wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:24 pm
You want to get rid of PvP entirely, we get it. How does this help?
No, just quarantine it. Open up free character transfers like they've already done from Hyjal and Gurubashi to the PVP Turtle server. The PvPers get what they want with games against fellow PvPers, with no PvEers looking for gear ruining their games, and the PvEers get to neither be forced into pvp to get their BiS nor have to listen to the post-game whining in world chat. Hell, let the PvPers just copy their character to the PVP server in case they decide they want to come back. Win-win-win.

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Coun
Posts: 48

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Coun » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:30 pm

Honestly, that suggestion is ridiculous. Again, I like to PvP. I also like to RP. Sometimes I even like to PvE. This is the place for me. Something like this would simply force me to, well, not PvP at all.

There's probably a lot of other folks who simply like both PvP and PvE and wouldn't want to have to "decide".

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Qixel
Posts: 147

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Qixel » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:34 pm

I see that you refuse to read beyond the first few sentences and realize now that further discussion is meaningless.

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Coun
Posts: 48

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Coun » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:37 pm

Maybe don't try hijacking a thread that is about the improvements to PvP just to say that you dislike PvP and want it to happen anywhere, but not on the server you play on.

Serener
Posts: 16

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Serener » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:37 pm

A thing that would make some kind of sense in my head at least, would be to allow players to stop Honor decay by paying gold(for a limited time ofc)

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Qixel
Posts: 147

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Qixel » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:39 pm

Coun wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:37 pm
Maybe don't try hijacking a thread that is about the improvements to PvP just to say that you dislike PvP and want it to happen anywhere, but not on the server you play on.
Maybe try reading past the first line of posts and realize that I'm offering constructive suggestions to improve both PvP and PvE and if you feel that me looking to reduce toxicity is a problem that speaks volumes of your character.

Soulex23
Posts: 2

Re: Let's talk about PvP system!

Post by Soulex23 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:43 pm

Honor vendor like in TBC maybe?

I don't mind the grind for honor, but vanilla makes it feel like you're going uphill on a treadmill if you think about taking a break.

OH ALSO
Maybe a touch of rep per kill so that people are once again doing objectives AND killing each other? I keep seeing some AV's that have 0 kills on the board because of people doing rep farming instead of playing the BG as intended. At least with this way it becomes another way to play the game instead of ignoring it. I wanna see the matches that last 40 hours again (not literally, I just mean in spirit)

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