Everything that is wrong with alterac valley (av bg)

[Geojak]

Hello over the past months of casual ranking, i had to witness the in my opinion relativey sad state of alterac valley.

its is playable, and at times fun. but over times the issues just could be ignored anymore.

in this thread i want to try combining all the bugs we have in the bg as well as some further suggestions deriavting from blizzard av since we are a server that never has 40v40 av anyway. we have significantly different needs and have significant different expeireces than for example in classic even if we had 1 to 1 the same bg.

this is a work in progress and the content will be filled in following separate posts

the biggest issue we got with av comes from the reality of twow.

that is every av starts out as a 10v10 and eventually fills to something like a 25v25.
thats the most common size

av was made for 40 people thought.similair to 40 man raids
since the bg and npcs dont scale down to smaller numbers, it makes turtleing in twow av a much bigger issue.

lets start with listing oepn issues

backdoor still exist on twow despite being fixed in 1.13.5 by blizzard
https://github.com/slowtorta/turtlewow- ... ssues/1474

alterac valley infantry and other issues
https://github.com/slowtorta/turtlewow- ... ssues/1288

av neverstopping npc respawning
https://github.com/slowtorta/turtlewow- ... ssues/1281

av wolves in drek thar room insane respawn
https://github.com/slowtorta/turtlewow- ... ssues/1390

Alterac Valley guards continue spawning after towers are burned
https://github.com/slowtorta/turtlewow- ... issues/536

another issue about mines becoming uncappable
https://github.com/slowtorta/turtlewow- ... ssues/1440

found nother issue but nor reported:

the snowfall grayeyard at the center when capped is not displayed properly on the map. it always keeps the grey neutral symbol

here are some major issues:

0. backdoor at alliance base. even blizzard managed to patch this during classic.
1. elite npc upgraded archers deal insane damage and make it outright impossibl to get inside the horde base if both towers are on and the horde defese. archer damage should scale with player numbers
2. since 40 players were in mind for turn ins, it is extremley difficult for 25 to get something like infatry, cavalry, airfoce or lords to happen
3. in 4 montsh of doing av, i have only ever seen the cavalry charge used by allaicne, i strongly doubt the infatry works since we did collect the supposed neccesary amount (sse one of the issues above) (edit: i did see horde use cav first time today and it works)
4. i have never even seen the nighelf druids start to cast. the more crsystalls you hand in, the more their ritaul should progress and you see them chanlleing.

i souggest to lower dynamically the needed collectable amounts for these strikes. they are absoluitely dead content currently and could help immsensely so alleviate the turtleing issues.

5. mines keep respawning and are one of the main causes that slows down offensives. even killing the mine slayer at the front wont have any effect on mines. it would make more sense if mine layer removed respawn of front mines and explisve expert removed mine resapwn at back areas. people keed dying to mines, and since its only 20v20 ish people this has a huge effect on make games stale.

6. 50% of the times we cant loot itmes properly. most of the times it effect the medallions and insignias (meats for horde i think), that are requirred for airstrikes. they never ever happen on twow, maybe this bug contributes since first people cant loot, second amounts are requirred to are meant for 40 poeple collecting not 20, third i might be bugged anyway.

sometimes i also cant loot frostwold hides or other stuff, but 90% of the times its the air force collectables

7. goblins and highelf do not drop collectibles like how orcs dop tooth, undead have forsaken hearts. this is honestly not a real issue, i just wnated to point it out for consistency

8. the ever respawning patrols are maybe a minor isues for a 40v40, but with 20v20 they are significantl. they resapwn alot, and nothing stops it (like described in the ingame av books that calim killing liteunants should disable suround reapwns of npc. often times you get to battle on less thant 50% hp (this is better described already in aboves issues)

9. Anothee minor issue with alterac mixed turtle version.
Korrak the bloodrszee spawns after 2 hours but he does not drop loot, nor does he give honor nor does a qeust for him exist.
I think it would make sense to put the special blue drops from the Lord summon in him too. We killed korrak today and I atleast was disappointed at this scuffed useless mob

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?npc=13419
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?npc=13256

[Geojak]

combined into main post

[Valadorn]

Id like to point out that plenty of NPCs stop respawning if the graveyards are captured.( I am talking about patrols mostly)

Av wolves in drek room only respawn when drek is pulled and it resets.

[Geojak]

comment merged in to main post

[Geojak]

cooment merged into main post

[Geojak]

Id like to point out that plenty of NPCs stop respawning if the graveyards are captured.( I am talking about patrols mostly)

Av wolves in drek room only respawn when drek is pulled and it resets.

this doesnt match what i have been observing.
have you capped snowfall gy and seen all the patrols and stuff from horde happily keeps resapwning, even after all lieteinants, and towers are leared.

this seems to be a bug to me

[Geojak]

As a conclsuion for now from my point.

Twow doesnt need a 100% blizzlike av. it has already a mix of 1.12.1 and orginal av. a custom version.

but we need further changes to help av work better with twow realliy of 20v20 ish bgs

we can make our av the best ones eveer, lets dont restict ourselves to what blizzard has done with a different goal in mind and a different playerbase

even thought twow is focused on pve, their are still hundreds of people (around 100 on alliance) that also enjoy pvp daily. fixing av wont take away anything from people that dont pvp themselfes.

[Geojak]

actuallt while we at it, anoterh ting taht sucks a lot.

when a bg closes due to too little players, one sided gets awarded 3 marks ,and the other sides gets weat nothing.

atleast 1 losers mark for staying till the end would be needed. very frsutrating when it happens

[Geojak]

comment merged into main post

[Geojak]

some players say the elemental lord summon acutally works but pathing then buggs out right after summon

[Coun]

oh right, and the backdoor at alliance base.

its is just so unfair. even blizzard managed to patch it out in classic.

the bg is unfair towards allaicne

its not random that back in classic with always 40v40 horde had 99% winrate

I assume we will then also fix Horde towers and NPC placement? Because you didn't mention that at all.

[Geojak]

Not sure what you mean about fixing horde towers and npc placement to be honest.

Npc respawning problems affect both equally.
Backdoor affects only alliance.
Moving stuff around besides backdoor closing, I atleast don't ask for that.

[Geojak]

update the orignal post and combiend stuff a bit

[Duvel]

There's only one unbearable issue in AV and it is the backdoor. Shame on you horde.
All the rest has minor importance compared to that fucking backdoor.
FIX THAT.

Although I also hate the mines. Played without mines on pserv for years and it was a really better experience. The issue with mines is that you dont see them.

And btw an easy manner to fix that backdoor would be to modify the alliance mine dropper points, so he can spread thousands of mines everywhere on the backdoor area.