Staying 59

[Kall91]

Hello. I was a member of the hardcore challenge without death. I was disappointed in this approach to hardcore challenge on this server. The first time I was killed by bug mobs who ran non-stop across the entire map after me (it was impossible to escape) server error. The second character was killed when my Internet connection was cut off for 3-5 minutes and when I entered the game I was already dead.. When launching such a challenge, there should be an approach and rules, and they wrote that they did not want to be responsible for anything. I do not advise hardcore challenge on this server, with any running on (the fault of this server) or loss of the Internet (the fault of the provider), you will lose everything and everyone does not care, although the challenge should not be dependent on such moments...

[Zirtox]

Please bring lvl 60 HC would love to raid without it being pointless.
Also being a main mage is rly painfull without having lvl 55 water...

Pls 60 HC soon tm

[Ingameacc12345]

Hello. I was a member of the hardcore challenge without death. I was disappointed in this approach to hardcore challenge on this server. The first time I was killed by bug mobs who ran non-stop across the entire map after me (it was impossible to escape) server error. The second character was killed when my Internet connection was cut off for 3-5 minutes and when I entered the game I was already dead.. When launching such a challenge, there should be an approach and rules, and they wrote that they did not want to be responsible for anything. I do not advise hardcore challenge on this server, with any running on (the fault of this server) or loss of the Internet (the fault of the provider), you will lose everything and everyone does not care, although the challenge should not be dependent on such moments...

I don't agree and I believe there are good reasons for devs to use current rules for HC. The main reason is that noone has time and will to go through tons of HC death appeals. Current rule is clear - if you die, that's it. You have bad internet? Tough luck, maybe HC is not for you? I personally lost a 35 due to a bug and 33 due to lag - it hurt for a day or two but that's life, it's not always fair and I was soon back on a "Create New Character" screen. It's all about the journey anyway.

I don't play in normal mode anymore, I don't find it fun. So of course I would very much like to have an option (it should still be an option!) to stay mortal at 60 to be able to complete my character, get that last talent point and use level 60 gear. Please make it so, twow!

[Sinrek]

I don't think that those who'd choose to play as HC on 60 would ask for character revival. Besides, any GM sees if it's an HC character and they know there's a technical lockout for such characters so they can't revive them anyway.

[Glavorli]

Yea its kinda sad that HC doesnt get "finished" with a proper level 60.

You play HC because the old game has become boring, and nothing really excites you anymore.
Getting gear or even levels feels meaningsless.

The pinacle of risk should be a raid enviroment for HC players.
And yet that is what we dont get.

[Shamma]

TBH I can speak for myself a friend or two - we play HC, because it is very much less likely to run into assholes when you form groups. Ppl take the time to talk to you, even come on voice on discord to speak.

[Sinrek]

One of the challenges for this run is proper communication.

[Shamma]

:(. We are not close yet:

https://discord.com/channels/4666224558 ... 4573700136

@Torta, any input on lvl 60 HC? Staff seems quiet on the subject even if it pops up regularly
Torta — Today at 11:54 AM
Right now the community is being split apart only during the leveling. Once HC hit 60, they unite again with the softcore crowd to continue to play and raid together. It's the intentional design and we'd not like to change it at this moment.
If there'd be HC only realm, it'd be possible.
But that's also not planned, I'm sorry...

[Glavorli]

I mean im HC too and I dont know if I wanna stay HC at 60, it should be an option If anything.

Raiding as HC must be super epic tho.

[Shamma]

I mean im HC too and I dont know if I wanna stay HC at 60, it should be an option If anything.

Raiding as HC must be super epic tho.

Right. We want it as an option.

And yes. Raiding as HC is epic. Check out the Road 2 Ragnaros journey from Season of Mastery. I was a tank in the EU raid. 2 raid grps killed Ragnaros with 1 life. Amazing experience. More fun for me than the 1st time clearing Naxx. Never before or since that raid have I been a part of such a well organized and beefy raid team.

[Glavorli]

I mean im HC too and I dont know if I wanna stay HC at 60, it should be an option If anything.

Raiding as HC must be super epic tho.

Right. We want it as an option.

And yes. Raiding as HC is epic. Check out the Road 2 Ragnaros journey from Season of Mastery. I was a tank in the EU raid. 2 raid grps killed Ragnaros with 1 life. Amazing experience. More fun for me than the 1st time clearing Naxx. Never before or since that raid have I been a part of such a well organized and beefy raid team.

Sounds thrilling. I dont know if I could handle the pressure. Especially not when playing a healer.
I would feel so incredibly guilty if someone would die, I would kill myself out of solidarity as well.

Thats only for the hardcore of the hardcore people haha.

[Shamma]

Thats only for the hardcore of the hardcore people haha.

Well yes. HC is not for everyone. Raiding in itself is not for everyone. PvP is not for everyone. Different ppl enjoy playing in a different way. R2R, the existence of <Hard Chores> and this and similar threads to lesser extent prove the are ppl who want to raid at 60 with 1 life. Hardly enough to make a dent in the normal raiding population. If lvl 60 HC mode was allowed, I still think <Hard Chores> will have a hard time filling up a roster of 40 ppl do go after Ragnaros, but ZG, AQ20 and probably Ony and some bosses in MC will be up for grabs.

I do not understand the fear that if lvl 60 HC became a thing, the normal raiding population will suffer. Whoever wants to raid HC either already raids on a normal toon and is pretty good at it, or has 0 interest anymore in normal raiding, cos he did it enough to be confident enough to try it in HC. Normal raiding is done in 3-4 hours a week and is akin to raid logging toons. I can maybe even see a surge in normal raiding, due to HC players going on normal toons to try and master the fights (if there is anything to master or they feel unsure) before they attempt them on their HC toons.

[Nightshade88]

A level 60 hardcore raiding team would be super cool built into the server. I mean, you could go to 60 anyway and just delete on death as is the rule. Hoping if I can hit max there will be a hardcore guild I can join who does this.

[Shamma]

A level 60 hardcore raiding team would be super cool built into the server. I mean, you could go to 60 anyway and just delete on death as is the rule. Hoping if I can hit max there will be a hardcore guild I can join who does this.

The cheating potential will be too great for this to be feasible. On SoM the HC addon enforced the restrictions. Here the full system is built into the server and everybody plays by the server rules and agrees on them. Having a community maintained lvl 60 HC mode, when the server already has the full thing (but just disables it when u hit 60) is stupid.

Disabling HC at 60 is just weird in my eyes. I know they implemented it that way in the infancy of HC, when it was strictly a lvling challenge. With R2R on SoM it evolved into a raiding challenge. Turtle was an early adopter of HC mode and made it better than official classic, but then never let it evolve into a raiding challenge. Time to let it happen!

We do not insist on HC servers. That is a lot of work for Turtle. HC is fine a mode. Just make HC mode permanent with the possibility to opt out once at any lvl and that is it!

[Ingameacc12345]

We do not insist on HC servers. That is a lot of work for Turtle. HC is fine a mode. Just make HC mode permanent with the possibility to opt out once at any lvl and that is it!

I bet that technically it would be trivial to implement, it's just they don't want to do it (and from what I see, I'm pretty sure they won't do it) because of the mythical separation of community.

Personally I'm very close to throwing the towel and getting all my chars that are currently 59 to 60 because playing a gimped character is just not fun. I plan to play as mortal at 60, ie. with all the HC rules.

[Sinrek]

We do not insist on HC servers. That is a lot of work for Turtle. HC is fine a mode. Just make HC mode permanent with the possibility to opt out once at any lvl and that is it!

I bet that technically it would be trivial to implement, it's just they don't want to do it (and from what I see, I'm pretty sure they won't do it) because of the mythical separation of community.

Personally I'm very close to throwing the towel and getting all my chars that are currently 59 to 60 because playing a gimped character is just not fun. I plan to play as mortal at 60, ie. with all the HC rules.

But … that means your first raid will become the last since most lvl 60 are either care not an inch for your one single life or just wouldn't be able to invite you into a raid since they are not hardcore.

This is why there should be an option for HC on 60. How to make it happen? Well, inform every and each one of HC players to come here and say their mind on the matter so devs would see how many of us are here. Surely the amount of HC players on 60 would be enough to form at least one or two raid groups with 40 men, right?

[Gladeshadow]

While both my ascended hardcore characters have decided to reach 60, I always return to leveling again. The HC dungeon groups, and I’d figure the raiding groups as well, just play so much more intentionally than others. I think it’s a shame when I see level 16s with drops from the bosses of Deadmines; they didn’t earn those rewards, they got carried.
Since a lot of messages and sentiment seem to be about such intention rather than rushing mobs and not caring if you die since you come back anyway, it would be nice to see that carry over more. Frankly, it’s disappointing to join the rest of the 60 community.

[Nightshade88]

lets start a petition and get the hardcore community to sign off so we can submit to turtle staff :) maybe they would listen then.

[Shamma]

lets start a petition and get the hardcore community to sign off so we can submit to turtle staff :) maybe they would listen then.

Yes, but we first need this:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4946

[Ingameacc12345]

Posted 30 minutes ago here: https://old.reddit.com/r/wowservers/com ... solace_the.
It's not happening.

https://i.imgur.com/bXrNHBO.png

[Sinrek]

Interesting take.

I'd rather see people lose some equipment for each death they take. Fell off a cliff and died? Lost your helmet for good. Alas, PvP would be a nightmare with that rule, so I would change that to equipment being broken for PvP encounter death.

That could be super cool. Could even do a Diablo mode of sorts. Drop a chest on death which only you can loot with your inventory. I don't know how it would feel, but it certainly sounds cool.

Now all what left for us is to persuade Torta with actually reading this thread and giving it a thought, because people playing HC might also play normal (softcore) characters besides their main HC even at 60 so technically there'd be no real community split ever.

[Shamma]

Now all what left for us is to persuade Torta with actually reading this thread and giving it a thought, because people playing HC might also play normal (softcore) characters besides their main HC even at 60 so technically there'd be no real community split ever.

Man, I even used bad language in this thread so much so, that I got a strike on my account and posts deleted and reprimanded by Tinyfin in an attempt to get attention (like when Toogle became a thing). Hope it was not for nothing.

[Sinrek]

Now all what left for us is to persuade Torta with actually reading this thread and giving it a thought, because people playing HC might also play normal (softcore) characters besides their main HC even at 60 so technically there'd be no real community split ever.

Man, I even used bad language in this thread so much so, that I got a strike on my account and posts deleted and reprimanded by Tinyfin in an attempt to get attention (like when Toogle became a thing). Hope it was not for nothing.

Well, bad language won't bring us any closer to what many of us desire to see.
"Patience … Discipline …"

Would be nice if we could come up with some sort of a theorycraft for possible outcomes of this change for the server overall. As of right now the main argument is community will be even more split, which isn't actually true since nobody would main their HC up to 60… surely.

[Jambiya]

The only split I see in community at 60 would be when a HC dies. Other than that hc 60's will still join raids with everyone else, and finally be able to equip 60 gear. Heck considering the risk of death i imagine hc raiders would be even more committed to success and do their roles diligently.

The only big issue i see is the inevitable few players who would want to sabotage a run to kill the hc toons. Ofcourse hc players could always make their own raid groups at 60 to reduce the risk. If possible give the option to stay hc at 60 for those who want it, the rest can become immortal as normal.

I just really want to see that 40 man raid wipe kill streak blowing up the server announcement system! Why deny us that beautiful moment

[Shamma]

The only split I see in community at 60 would be when a HC dies. Other than that hc 60's will still join raids with everyone else, and finally be able to equip 60 gear. Heck considering the risk of death i imagine hc raiders would be even more committed to success and do their roles diligently.

The only big issue i see is the inevitable few players who would want to sabotage a run to kill the hc toons. Ofcourse hc players could always make their own raid groups at 60 to reduce the risk. If possible give the option to stay hc at 60 for those who want it, the rest can become immortal as normal.

I just really want to see that 40 man raid wipe kill streak blowing up the server announcement system! Why deny us that beautiful moment

While the anticipation of raid wipe is definitely a lot of spice on the whole thing and everybody playing HC is taking that into account, it is extremely unlikely to happen. HC will only raid in a HC guild. Never with normal ppl. That will be also impossible due to server rules. And also HCs take all precautions of wipe protection. They go to raid with a few flasks of petrification each and have protocols to sacrifice a few to save the most, so while R2R saw 1-2 deaths in the MC raids and in the prep for the raids in UBRS, scholo and strat, it was never a full wipe and it is never going to be a full wipe when the experienced and prepared players are involved. The grps always feature enough wipe protection to get most if not all out safely if something bad happens.

On the splitting thing - how is it splitting the community when most ppl only raid in the constraints of their own guild? Do guilds count as splitting the community? Do you think <The Blackwing Guard> care much about <Golden Moon> not having enough ppl to fill up their raid spots as an example? HC raiding is not different in this regard. It is just another raiding guild that organizes and does raids only with its own members.

[Shamma]

Bloodsail buccaneers server (NA RP-PvE) is popping with HC players. They hit 3 digit online numbers for the 1st time since before SoM yesterday. Turtle is getting competition again. They actually have an endgame goal there - they can stay HC at lvl 60 and go after Ragnaros, Ony and Nefarian. Why are we being held back intentionally? Are we afraid we might steal all their players and Blizz will come after us?!

[Sinrek]

More like devs suck at understanding how HC should be working at 60 and they just wanna have as less "separation" of the server community as possible. It takes balls to go and say: "Alright, here's your HC on 60 and never even try to bother us on restoration if you die for any reason."

As if there's no such policy already.

[Melhist2]

Hi, what do you(evryone) think of upgrading dungeon gear at lvl 59, I mean like realy hard grind in dungeons/raids to upgrade ur Dungeon gear which is not worth for a lvl 60 player since they can get T gear.
Whether its using professions or quests.


I think devs care about HC59 but idk how hard this is to implement.

[Nokidding]

I think devs care about HC59 but idk how hard this is to implement.

No they don’t, see posts above.
Unfortunately, they don’t see high level HC as the desired design for turtle.

[Jambiya]

I wonder if it could be possible after reaching immortal 60, to again talk to the stranger and request to have the mortal/hc status put back onto the player. Idk how its all coded in, maybe add another quest with lv 60 req that just puts the hc status back on? Might conflict with the announcement system though...idk.

[Shamma]

I wonder if it could be possible after reaching immortal 60, to again talk to the stranger and request to have the mortal/hc status put back onto the player. Idk how its all coded in, maybe add another quest with lv 60 req that just puts the hc status back on? Might conflict with the announcement system though...idk.

Both will be suitable changes. Imo making it so that u stay HC and need to disable it manually (like how u enabled it manually) is more fitting, but anyway they implement is fine. Just have it available at 60.

[Shamma]

Is that the prince that was promised:

https://discord.com/channels/4666224558 ... 7500797992

Solski — Yesterday at 6:06 PM
5 more to go. 995 immortals: https://armory.turtle-wow.org/hardcore/
any day now guys! and can we get lvl 60 HC mode then?
Jamey — Today at 2:43 AM
Deal

[Jambiya]

+1

[Nokidding]

Is that the prince that was promised:

https://discord.com/channels/4666224558 ... 7500797992

Solski — Yesterday at 6:06 PM
5 more to go. 995 immortals: https://armory.turtle-wow.org/hardcore/
any day now guys! and can we get lvl 60 HC mode then?
Jamey — Today at 2:43 AM
Deal

This is giving me very slight hope.

[Shamma]

Update:

Juku — Today at 4:13 PM
@Jamey You promised us 60 HC mode when the 1000th player hits immortal, where is it? :blob_cheer:
Jamey — Today at 4:13 PM
Right after patch files
Jamey — Today at 4:14 PM
Patch fixes*

https://discord.com/channels/4666224558 ... 7647302727

We might get to close this thread soon guys!