Staying 59

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Shamma
Posts: 292

Re: Staying 59

Post by Shamma » Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:35 pm

TBH I can speak for myself a friend or two - we play HC, because it is very much less likely to run into assholes when you form groups. Ppl take the time to talk to you, even come on voice on discord to speak.

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Sinrek
Posts: 1077

Re: Staying 59

Post by Sinrek » Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:02 pm

One of the challenges for this run is proper communication.
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Shamma
Posts: 292

Re: Staying 59

Post by Shamma » Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:09 am

:(. We are not close yet:

https://discord.com/channels/4666224558 ... 4573700136

@Torta, any input on lvl 60 HC? Staff seems quiet on the subject even if it pops up regularly
Torta — Today at 11:54 AM
Right now the community is being split apart only during the leveling. Once HC hit 60, they unite again with the softcore crowd to continue to play and raid together. It's the intentional design and we'd not like to change it at this moment.
If there'd be HC only realm, it'd be possible.
But that's also not planned, I'm sorry...

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Glavorli
Posts: 40

Re: Staying 59

Post by Glavorli » Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:17 am

I mean im HC too and I dont know if I wanna stay HC at 60, it should be an option If anything.

Raiding as HC must be super epic tho.

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Shamma
Posts: 292

Re: Staying 59

Post by Shamma » Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:06 am

Glavorli wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:17 am
I mean im HC too and I dont know if I wanna stay HC at 60, it should be an option If anything.

Raiding as HC must be super epic tho.
Right. We want it as an option.

And yes. Raiding as HC is epic. Check out the Road 2 Ragnaros journey from Season of Mastery. I was a tank in the EU raid. 2 raid grps killed Ragnaros with 1 life. Amazing experience. More fun for me than the 1st time clearing Naxx. Never before or since that raid have I been a part of such a well organized and beefy raid team.

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Glavorli
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Re: Staying 59

Post by Glavorli » Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:40 am

Shamma wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:06 am
Glavorli wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:17 am
I mean im HC too and I dont know if I wanna stay HC at 60, it should be an option If anything.

Raiding as HC must be super epic tho.
Right. We want it as an option.

And yes. Raiding as HC is epic. Check out the Road 2 Ragnaros journey from Season of Mastery. I was a tank in the EU raid. 2 raid grps killed Ragnaros with 1 life. Amazing experience. More fun for me than the 1st time clearing Naxx. Never before or since that raid have I been a part of such a well organized and beefy raid team.
Sounds thrilling. I dont know if I could handle the pressure. Especially not when playing a healer.
I would feel so incredibly guilty if someone would die, I would kill myself out of solidarity as well.

Thats only for the hardcore of the hardcore people haha.

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Shamma
Posts: 292

Re: Staying 59

Post by Shamma » Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:11 am

Glavorli wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:40 am
Thats only for the hardcore of the hardcore people haha.
Well yes. HC is not for everyone. Raiding in itself is not for everyone. PvP is not for everyone. Different ppl enjoy playing in a different way. R2R, the existence of <Hard Chores> and this and similar threads to lesser extent prove the are ppl who want to raid at 60 with 1 life. Hardly enough to make a dent in the normal raiding population. If lvl 60 HC mode was allowed, I still think <Hard Chores> will have a hard time filling up a roster of 40 ppl do go after Ragnaros, but ZG, AQ20 and probably Ony and some bosses in MC will be up for grabs.

I do not understand the fear that if lvl 60 HC became a thing, the normal raiding population will suffer. Whoever wants to raid HC either already raids on a normal toon and is pretty good at it, or has 0 interest anymore in normal raiding, cos he did it enough to be confident enough to try it in HC. Normal raiding is done in 3-4 hours a week and is akin to raid logging toons. I can maybe even see a surge in normal raiding, due to HC players going on normal toons to try and master the fights (if there is anything to master or they feel unsure) before they attempt them on their HC toons.

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Nightshade88
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Re: Staying 59

Post by Nightshade88 » Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:09 pm

A level 60 hardcore raiding team would be super cool built into the server. I mean, you could go to 60 anyway and just delete on death as is the rule. Hoping if I can hit max there will be a hardcore guild I can join who does this.

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Shamma
Posts: 292

Re: Staying 59

Post by Shamma » Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:57 am

Nightshade88 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:09 pm
A level 60 hardcore raiding team would be super cool built into the server. I mean, you could go to 60 anyway and just delete on death as is the rule. Hoping if I can hit max there will be a hardcore guild I can join who does this.
The cheating potential will be too great for this to be feasible. On SoM the HC addon enforced the restrictions. Here the full system is built into the server and everybody plays by the server rules and agrees on them. Having a community maintained lvl 60 HC mode, when the server already has the full thing (but just disables it when u hit 60) is stupid.

Disabling HC at 60 is just weird in my eyes. I know they implemented it that way in the infancy of HC, when it was strictly a lvling challenge. With R2R on SoM it evolved into a raiding challenge. Turtle was an early adopter of HC mode and made it better than official classic, but then never let it evolve into a raiding challenge. Time to let it happen!

We do not insist on HC servers. That is a lot of work for Turtle. HC is fine a mode. Just make HC mode permanent with the possibility to opt out once at any lvl and that is it!

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Ingameacc12345
Posts: 27

Re: Staying 59

Post by Ingameacc12345 » Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:41 am

Shamma wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:57 am
We do not insist on HC servers. That is a lot of work for Turtle. HC is fine a mode. Just make HC mode permanent with the possibility to opt out once at any lvl and that is it!
I bet that technically it would be trivial to implement, it's just they don't want to do it (and from what I see, I'm pretty sure they won't do it) because of the mythical separation of community.

Personally I'm very close to throwing the towel and getting all my chars that are currently 59 to 60 because playing a gimped character is just not fun. I plan to play as mortal at 60, ie. with all the HC rules.

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Sinrek
Posts: 1077

Re: Staying 59

Post by Sinrek » Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:49 pm

Ingameacc12345 wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:41 am
Shamma wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:57 am
We do not insist on HC servers. That is a lot of work for Turtle. HC is fine a mode. Just make HC mode permanent with the possibility to opt out once at any lvl and that is it!
I bet that technically it would be trivial to implement, it's just they don't want to do it (and from what I see, I'm pretty sure they won't do it) because of the mythical separation of community.

Personally I'm very close to throwing the towel and getting all my chars that are currently 59 to 60 because playing a gimped character is just not fun. I plan to play as mortal at 60, ie. with all the HC rules.
But … that means your first raid will become the last since most lvl 60 are either care not an inch for your one single life or just wouldn't be able to invite you into a raid since they are not hardcore.

This is why there should be an option for HC on 60. How to make it happen? Well, inform every and each one of HC players to come here and say their mind on the matter so devs would see how many of us are here. Surely the amount of HC players on 60 would be enough to form at least one or two raid groups with 40 men, right?
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Gladeshadow
Posts: 85

Re: Staying 59

Post by Gladeshadow » Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:15 am

While both my ascended hardcore characters have decided to reach 60, I always return to leveling again. The HC dungeon groups, and I’d figure the raiding groups as well, just play so much more intentionally than others. I think it’s a shame when I see level 16s with drops from the bosses of Deadmines; they didn’t earn those rewards, they got carried.
Since a lot of messages and sentiment seem to be about such intention rather than rushing mobs and not caring if you die since you come back anyway, it would be nice to see that carry over more. Frankly, it’s disappointing to join the rest of the 60 community.

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Nightshade88
Posts: 3

Re: Staying 59

Post by Nightshade88 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:04 pm

lets start a petition and get the hardcore community to sign off so we can submit to turtle staff :) maybe they would listen then.

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Shamma
Posts: 292

Re: Staying 59

Post by Shamma » Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:24 am

Nightshade88 wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:04 pm
lets start a petition and get the hardcore community to sign off so we can submit to turtle staff :) maybe they would listen then.
Yes, but we first need this:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4946

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Ingameacc12345
Posts: 27

Re: Staying 59

Post by Ingameacc12345 » Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:39 pm


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Sinrek
Posts: 1077

Re: Staying 59

Post by Sinrek » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:31 pm

Akalix wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:38 pm
Sinrek wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:16 pm

Interesting take.

I'd rather see people lose some equipment for each death they take. Fell off a cliff and died? Lost your helmet for good. Alas, PvP would be a nightmare with that rule, so I would change that to equipment being broken for PvP encounter death.
That could be super cool. Could even do a Diablo mode of sorts. Drop a chest on death which only you can loot with your inventory. I don't know how it would feel, but it certainly sounds cool.
Now all what left for us is to persuade Torta with actually reading this thread and giving it a thought, because people playing HC might also play normal (softcore) characters besides their main HC even at 60 so technically there'd be no real community split ever.
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Shamma
Posts: 292

Re: Staying 59

Post by Shamma » Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:00 am

Sinrek wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:31 pm
Now all what left for us is to persuade Torta with actually reading this thread and giving it a thought, because people playing HC might also play normal (softcore) characters besides their main HC even at 60 so technically there'd be no real community split ever.
Man, I even used bad language in this thread so much so, that I got a strike on my account and posts deleted and reprimanded by Tinyfin in an attempt to get attention (like when Toogle became a thing). Hope it was not for nothing.

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Sinrek
Posts: 1077

Re: Staying 59

Post by Sinrek » Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:55 pm

Shamma wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:00 am
Sinrek wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:31 pm
Now all what left for us is to persuade Torta with actually reading this thread and giving it a thought, because people playing HC might also play normal (softcore) characters besides their main HC even at 60 so technically there'd be no real community split ever.
Man, I even used bad language in this thread so much so, that I got a strike on my account and posts deleted and reprimanded by Tinyfin in an attempt to get attention (like when Toogle became a thing). Hope it was not for nothing.
Well, bad language won't bring us any closer to what many of us desire to see.
"Patience … Discipline …"

Would be nice if we could come up with some sort of a theorycraft for possible outcomes of this change for the server overall. As of right now the main argument is community will be even more split, which isn't actually true since nobody would main their HC up to 60… surely.
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Jambiya
Posts: 63

Re: Staying 59

Post by Jambiya » Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:30 am

The only split I see in community at 60 would be when a HC dies. Other than that hc 60's will still join raids with everyone else, and finally be able to equip 60 gear. Heck considering the risk of death i imagine hc raiders would be even more committed to success and do their roles diligently.

The only big issue i see is the inevitable few players who would want to sabotage a run to kill the hc toons. Ofcourse hc players could always make their own raid groups at 60 to reduce the risk. If possible give the option to stay hc at 60 for those who want it, the rest can become immortal as normal.

I just really want to see that 40 man raid wipe kill streak blowing up the server announcement system! Why deny us that beautiful moment insidious_turtle

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Shamma
Posts: 292

Re: Staying 59

Post by Shamma » Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:50 am

Jambiya wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:30 am
The only split I see in community at 60 would be when a HC dies. Other than that hc 60's will still join raids with everyone else, and finally be able to equip 60 gear. Heck considering the risk of death i imagine hc raiders would be even more committed to success and do their roles diligently.

The only big issue i see is the inevitable few players who would want to sabotage a run to kill the hc toons. Ofcourse hc players could always make their own raid groups at 60 to reduce the risk. If possible give the option to stay hc at 60 for those who want it, the rest can become immortal as normal.

I just really want to see that 40 man raid wipe kill streak blowing up the server announcement system! Why deny us that beautiful moment insidious_turtle
While the anticipation of raid wipe is definitely a lot of spice on the whole thing and everybody playing HC is taking that into account, it is extremely unlikely to happen. HC will only raid in a HC guild. Never with normal ppl. That will be also impossible due to server rules. And also HCs take all precautions of wipe protection. They go to raid with a few flasks of petrification each and have protocols to sacrifice a few to save the most, so while R2R saw 1-2 deaths in the MC raids and in the prep for the raids in UBRS, scholo and strat, it was never a full wipe and it is never going to be a full wipe when the experienced and prepared players are involved. The grps always feature enough wipe protection to get most if not all out safely if something bad happens.

On the splitting thing - how is it splitting the community when most ppl only raid in the constraints of their own guild? Do guilds count as splitting the community? Do you think <The Blackwing Guard> care much about <Golden Moon> not having enough ppl to fill up their raid spots as an example? HC raiding is not different in this regard. It is just another raiding guild that organizes and does raids only with its own members.

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