Soft Reserve

[Xerron]

***7/6/2020 UPDATE***
Starting next raid, 11th of July, getting an item in a Main Spec Roll or Winning your Reserved item will both count toward the 1item/run rule.
We decided to change this rule after some feedback we got from the raiders regarding the possible 'gaming the system' by reserving end boss loot, and getting away with winning one or two MS items + the reserved item.

Sure, this update doesn't mean people can't still reserve end bosses loot, but rather it makes your reserved item have more meaning since it can be the only item you could get after one raid.

People can still get more than one item / run:
- case when two or more people already got 1 item as MS/RES each, they all can roll (like it was before)
- or MS/RES + as many offspec items you win by rolling
- or trash BOEs

IMPORTANT NOTE : Please don't come on alts and expect loot over mains who raid BWL

TL;DR; : we changed from MS item AND RES item to MS item OR RES item

***END 7/6/2020 UPDATE***

Hello Turtles ,

Since the last thread about loot systems (vet/newcomer) did not get to a general agreement I want to propose a new system for our Molten Core raids.

It is called “Soft Reserve” and it goes like this:


1. All players can have 1 (one) item soft reserved per raid and it must be declared at least 6 hours before the start of the raid in the #soft-reserve (channel will be created soon if it does not exist when you're reading this) channel on Thunder Ale discord https://discord.gg/nUaUUXZ
It is important for people who post there to also write their in-game character name.
Text syntax:

<in-game character name> - <exact item name>

Example :

Momo - Azuresong Mageblade

Please don’t post wowhead links or images, only plain text will count and please try to respect the syntax, we have plans to write an addon that will import discord text (or accept reserves in-game) into the game for faster reserved item lookup (hence the importance of exact item name).
Before the raid will start the reservation system closes and every message is accounted for and written in a publicly available online file or on discord.


2. When a soft reserved item drops, all players who reserved it will roll for it.
If only one person soft reserved an item, they will automatically get it.
If an item was not soft reserved by someone, everyone can roll according to the MS > OS rules and the one item/run rules.


Notes:
Trash BoE Tier items are excluded from one item per run rules (like we had in previous raids)
Winning your reserved item will count(7/6/2020 update) toward the one item/run rule. However, if two people who already got one item roll on a new item, they can get it unless someone who didn’t win anything wants it.
Legendary items are excluded from this rule.
Alts You can only reserve items on your main character, for your main spec and loot on main counts toward alt’s one item/run rule(if you want to switch to alt for certain fights)
Fiery/Lava Core - will be gathered by Smultron/Engie/Er and will be traded to raiders as needed for specific crafts (hunter scope,FR gear,etc)
MS Roll means you should roll for items that fit your Main Spec, your current spec and the spec you’re planning to raid in the near future
OS Roll will happen if nobody rolls for their Main Specs and you can roll if you can use it and plan to use it, these items do not count toward the one item/run rules

Later Edits
People who soft reserve items need to be present for the entirety of the raid.
Rolls will still be ran on a 5 seconds timer.
As usual, come prepared with consumables, BigWigs boss mods, knowledge of boss strats, at least UBRS level gear, and enchants, especially if you got loot in the past runs.
This loot system will be tested out this next MC raid (30th of May)

You can whisper 'Er' the text: '-mcres' to check your current reservation.

Allons-y!

[Reito]

Quick question, is there some confirmation that the soft reservation was successful? Also is it possible to change my reservation?

Anyway thx for this, I might have a bit different idea, but this is still much better than nothing! See ya in the raid :-)

[Xerron]

Quick question, is there some confirmation that the soft reservation was successful?

The system or your personal reservation ?

[Reito]

Let me rephrase it - when i write "Faustus - Azuresong mageblade", will I get any notifications it was registered?

[Chirpy]

I'm glad to see a system being put in place. Can only make things clearer. Is there movement on a priority system as well?

[Chirpy]

Let me rephrase it - when i write "Faustus - Azuresong mageblade", will I get any notifications it was registered?

Like what a text?

[Xerron]

Let me rephrase it - when i write "Faustus - Azuresong mageblade", will I get any notifications it was registered?

I'll probably have the addon half-ready till next MC so you'll be able to whisper me a command like : '!res' or something to see your reserved item.

[Reito]

Let me rephrase it - when i write "Faustus - Azuresong mageblade", will I get any notifications it was registered?

I'll probably have the addon half-ready till next MC so you'll be able to whisper me a command like : '!res' or something to see your reserved item.

Thx thats what I had in mind. Or mb a disc PM? Just so ppl know they didnt do it wrong smth like: "Item reserved MC: Faustus - Azuresong mageblade"

Thanks for the answer :-)

[Hejtr]

WoW, weirdly simple system yet truly compliicated to keep track of. I hope ER can make some addon for it soon.

Still I agree with Faust, not perfect but better than nothing.

[Xerron]

Bump for some edits.

[Connelly]

Should I assume these reserves are only for Thunder Ale members, or for everyone in the server?

2. When a soft reserved item drops, all players who reserved it will roll for it.

Reading the rule as phrased here, should I understand then that those reserves are indiscriminate, whether a player raids in a main spec appropriate for the item and another that doesn't?

To use an example I myself experienced: in a different server, in a MC raid where Bonereaver's Edge (a two-handed weapon) dropped, and I was the only melee playing with a two-handed Fury spec. The leaders allowed the dual wielding Furies to roll and gave it to one of them.

The same can easily happen to other classes and specs. Should I expect the same outcome to happen with the wording of this rule?

People who soft reserve items need to be present for the entirety of the raid.

Is this a "black and white" rule, or does it allow for nuances? Is it about being there at the time of finishing the instance for the day (be it downing the last boss in the raid or hitting the time limit), or being there the entire time without interruptions?

The current raid times intersects with the times I must leave to walk the dogs. during the past weeks at MC this has meant Shazraz, and Baron once but that was because of delays beyond everyone's control. Shazraz is one encounters where a melee like me doesn't matter that much, which is why I decided it was a good moment to leave. Usually I'm back before or during the time the raid is crossing the bridge behind Golemagg.

Should I be counted out of this system, then?

Less importantly:

come prepared with [...] BigWigs boss mods

Is this conditional to participating in the system, or just a friendly reminder of raiding expectations?

Because all versions of BigWigs I've tried have given me terrible performance in the game, even freezing the client during encounters until I was dead (IE: Firemaw. I'm sure you'd notice me stand in the open like an idiot. This was the suspected reason, for now). Not just BigWigs, there are other raiding addons that I'm suspecting of causing troubles and poor performance, so I'm starting to disable them. I prefer a working game without helps to one where the help kills me.

[Chlo]

Just my input on the items a few people have reserved and how the system is open to abuse. I have stated this opinion on discord to the people discussing things at the time but after chatting to a few other players and hearing their concerns I will repeat here:

With the reserve system being visible until around raid start, you can view what other players have selected and "game" the system. (this obviously doesn't apply if you only want one item, you will just pick that item)

An example:

I am a new hunter. I see that Chlo and Ruari have picked the cloak. Wither has picked the T1 shoulders. All other hunter T1 gear will be a free roll, so it is pointless to use my reserve on. So I reserve the T2 legs from Ragnaros. If hunter T1 gear other than the shoulders drops throughout the raid, I can roll and win. I am happy. If no T1 gear drops I have a guaranteed win if the final boss drops the T2 legs. Pure logic suggests viewing other people's reserves and picking late-boss items for your own reserve is the best strategy.

I mentioned that people might do this on discord and perhaps came across as a little cynical, however I would like to draw attention to the following reserves:

Motorboat: A player with 3 greens to upgrade reserving the highly contested Choker of the Fire Lord that is the only item many casters who have raided for a long time need. If you view their reserve you will notice several people have reacted with the "?" response. No mage T1 gear has been reserved, so why reserve it I guess.

Halyeth: A player that has raided three times picking the Quick Strike Ring. To be fair, why pick hunter tier gear when you will likely win some on free rolls, per the example given earlier? Much better to ensure a win on an elusive item in case no tier gear drops and the ring does. I do however find this pick less contentious than a mage in greens going for the Choker.

Both the choker and QSR are items that have been highly contested within the "roll if you want the item" system previously used. If I've misrepresented anyone here, please do correct me.

I don't really have much of a solution other than private reserves, as I've seen people change their choices back and forth based on what others pick.

[Xerron]

Should I assume these reserves are only for Thunder Ale members, or for everyone in the server?

2. When a soft reserved item drops, all players who reserved it will roll for it.

Reading the rule as phrased here, should I understand then that those reserves are indiscriminate, whether a player raids in a main spec appropriate for the item and another that doesn't?

To use an example I myself experienced: in a different server, in a MC raid where Bonereaver's Edge (a two-handed weapon) dropped, and I was the only melee playing with a two-handed Fury spec. The leaders allowed the dual wielding Furies to roll and gave it to one of them.

The same can easily happen to other classes and specs. Should I expect the same outcome to happen with the wording of this rule?

People who soft reserve items need to be present for the entirety of the raid.

Is this a "black and white" rule, or does it allow for nuances? Is it about being there at the time of finishing the instance for the day (be it downing the last boss in the raid or hitting the time limit), or being there the entire time without interruptions?

The current raid times intersects with the times I must leave to walk the dogs. during the past weeks at MC this has meant Shazraz, and Baron once but that was because of delays beyond everyone's control. Shazraz is one encounters where a melee like me doesn't matter that much, which is why I decided it was a good moment to leave. Usually I'm back before or during the time the raid is crossing the bridge behind Golemagg.

Should I be counted out of this system, then?

Less importantly:

come prepared with [...] BigWigs boss mods

Is this conditional to participating in the system, or just a friendly reminder of raiding expectations?

Because all versions of BigWigs I've tried have given me terrible performance in the game, even freezing the client during encounters until I was dead (IE: Firemaw. I'm sure you'd notice me stand in the open like an idiot. This was the suspected reason, for now). Not just BigWigs, there are other raiding addons that I'm suspecting of causing troubles and poor performance, so I'm starting to disable them. I prefer a working game without helps to one where the help kills me.

1.
Why would you assume that only TABC members can reserve items when I clearly stated that

Code: Select all

1. All players can have 1 (one) item soft reserved per raid...

2.
Reserved items should be main spec only without any meme specs. Regarding BRE, if you really want to help the raid with your furry dps, do it dual wielding it's far more dps

3.
Regarding being present for the entirety of the raid, yes you can afk for one boss, or for 15 mins to walk the dogs, if a melee can do it for shaz, even better but don't expect the raid to wait for you if you want loot off that boss. My idea was for people who want to come in at the end of the raid for the last couple of bosses and roll on their reserved items, i don't find it fair for the others who were there from the beginning of the raid.

4.
Boss Mods. Just the fact that you think this is the 'Less importantly' aspect of raiding makes me want to not invite people without boss mods in the future. Yes it's important, we don't enforce it yet, because we're calling out important boss mechanics on discord but sooner or later fails(bombs in the raid, etc) will be punished, and having boss mods will help you avoid such fails

[Connelly]

Why would you assume that only TABC members can reserve items when I clearly stated that

Merely asking for clarification.

Reserved items should be main spec only without any meme specs. Regarding BRE, if you really want to help the raid with your furry dps, do it dual wielding it's far more dps

Aham. Meme specs. Cool. That's very reassuring.

Also, I was hoping you to look at the moon instead of the pointing finger.

Boss Mods. Just the fact that you think this is the 'Less importantly' aspect of raiding makes me want to not invite people without boss mods in the future. Yes it's important, we don't enforce it yet, because we're calling out important boss mechanics on discord but sooner or later fails(bombs in the raid, etc) will be punished, and having boss mods will help you avoid such fails

I meant "less important" as "less relevant to the subject of loot distribution or how this particular system works". I seem to have failed to convey that, expecting it would be implied in the broad matter of discussion. My mistake.

[Ezuba]

I'm in favor of this system. That being said, can the burden of re reserving items be put on the people who got loot instead of becoming a weekly chore for all to do?

What I mean is that, if you reserved an item last week and didn't get the item can the reserve just be forwarded on for future weeks and if you got the item it is on you to reserve something different.

I honestly forgot that I hadn't reserved yet htis week, sign on this morning to get my characters consumables and raid buffs inline(I'm in the USA so first thing in the morning,7am here, is already within the 6 hour freeze on reserving). I've realized now, 5.95 hours before raid, that I have no reason to come at all today.

I would like my gear and the time I've spent collecting up DMF, Songflower, and logged myself ready to get ZG and Ony head right before raid to go to benefit the raid with a quick MC clear and hopes that we can start BWL afterwards but instead will probably just join on a shittly geared alt or just not come at all because there is no chance for loot on my character.

Again, I think this is a good system but the kinks could still be ironed out.


-Astrld

[Chlo]

I asked a question in raid today but didn't want to hammer the point since we needed to get on with killing baddies so will request to discuss it again now.

My question was pretty much "does winning a BOP epic mean you lose your reserve on a later piece of loot?" and the answer received was "no". Myself and various other players were confused by this.

From my understanding, the purpose of the soft reserve system was to reward the players who show up week after week (and month after month) with only one or two items left that they need. By allowing the player's loot reserve to stand no matter what they win prior, the system can and perhaps will be abused.

For example, it is in the best interests of any player who does not need a specific item from an earlier boss (such as Brutality Blade/QSR) to opt for a later-boss item as their choice of reserved item. For example the Choker of the Fire Lord, Cloak of the Shrouded Mists, Perdition's Blade, Cauterising Band, Wild Growth Spaulders etc.

Newer players are then able to scoop up a bunch of earlier loot, often uncontested such as the warlock shoulders and mage legs today, as well as loads of priest gear. The player then will *still* be able to have a shot at the late-raid item they picked to reserve, no matter what they have already received, by virtue of their earlier wins not counting. Why the heck would a new healer not pick the ring or the shoulders (if they can use leather)? They will be afforded the opportunity to win loads of other stuff beforehand and roll on the reserved late-raid item too. It would be pointless for them to reserve earlier gear since it can be won anyway with no consequences.

I would submit that if you have already won an epic, you should be leaving the raid happy. If you need many items and have won one of several upgrades, you have not left empty-handed and have plenty of time to attend more raids and collect lots of loot! Players that only need one item should not miss out or have a lower chance to win due to other epics not counting.

[Xerron]

I'm in favor of this system. That being said, can the burden of re reserving items be put on the people who got loot instead of becoming a weekly chore for all to do?

The process of getting reserves into the game is half-automated.
This means that Discord allows us to export the whole channel into a json file, then I have a few lines of code that extracts just the messages 'Player - item' and converts it into a format that my res addon can understand eg: ["Tyrelys"] = "Band of Accuria" and that gets auto loaded into the addon

I like to reset the channel because I don't want to rely on people to delete/update their reserves, some forget, some don't care after they get it, some can't make it next week, etc, and some people like to see exactly what is reserved and what's not for the next raid so they can adapt their res.

[Ezuba]

“
I like to reset the channel because I don't want to rely on people to delete/update their reserves, some forget, some don't care after they get it, some can't make it next week, etc, and some people like to see exactly what is reserved and what's not for the next raid so they can adapt their res.
“

If they don’t update it, it will come up that they want it and they will say no I got that last week.

Some forget is a reason to have it carry over not a reason to reset it.

Some don’t care after they get it. Why are we pandering to those that don’t care?

Some can’t make it next week. Well when we are deciding loot they won’t be getting it since they aren’t present.

Some people like to see exactly what is reserved and what's not for the next raid so they can adapt their res. These would be people trying to game the system, why are we pandering to them? They could still update their reserve anyway so it’s also a mute point.

[Ezuba]

Partially bumping my previous post. Also wanted to bring up an idea that was put into discord voice chat last weekend that maybe shouldn't be swept under the rug.

Someone suggested (maybe it was Chlo?) that if you have reserved an item you should NOT be able to roll against others on other contested items. This would make the reserve more so favor the veteran players that only need one item and reduce the use of reserving an item to game the system by newer raiders. Having a negative impact of having a reserve would discourage people from just reserving the most sought after items and then getting the rest of their loot too.

-Astrld

[Xerron]

bump for updates