Some more feedback based on new posts. Keep 'em coming!
Alkatraz wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 1:41 am
well i have a only 1 quest: alters r considerate veterans?
Alts are always tricky. We're still discussing this and hope to hear from others on this topic as well.
There's a handful of raiders with alts that regularly swap toons to help with certain boss fights. I don't want to punish raiders for making sacrifices to help with progression. My guess is that we'll be tracking attendance for each character, so if someone's alt joins the raid regularly to help with a specific boss fight they would get credit for attendance that day and could earn veteran status the same as any other character.
Raymundo wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 1:50 am
TLDR: Common sense says Vets get loot over Newbies.. Just be clear about it. But consider progression in your loot choices. If a player has been here 5 years but refuses to improve/change it may effect your ability to go further in BwL/AQ and so on, even if they are decked in epics.
We've discussed raid performance as well. There's still some debate over this within the raid leadership so I think (for now) we've decide to just start with attendance for veteran status.
Kazgrim wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 6:21 am
I think it would serve new players well if they started organizing their own raids. Minimum you need is 20 after all.
Yes, this is always an option for newbies, but let's put that into perspective...
We started raiding with 20 people and it took us approximately 3-4 months before our first full clear of Molten Core. Since we're discussing newbies needing 2-3 months of regular raid attendance to become veterans you'd probably earn veteran status a whole month before your first Ragnaros kill, assuming you start your own raid group.
It also took us about 1.5 months before our first Garr kill. That means we were only killing about 1-3 bosses per week in that first month or so of raiding. If you raid with us you'll kill all 10 bosses in your first Molten Core raid. That's 3-10 times the amount of loot for 'newbies' to roll on than if you started raiding from scratch!
And finally, I have about a dozen BoE epics (class-specific Tier 1 bracers/belts) in my inventory waiting to go to 'newbie' raiders. The next druid or shaman to join us will get 2 free epics just for walking into Molten Core!
Xerron wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 8:35 am
yeah, your list of wanted items is like 16
up for grabs tier sets is like 9 classes * 8 pieces, 72 + random boss loot you did not include, that gets close to 100
so everyone whining about the core stealing loot from newbies should take this into consideration.
ER's math is correct. Edd's list of 16 items represents less than 15% of the overall loot being reserved for veterans. That would leave over 85% of the loot in Molten Core up for grabs to everyone!
Reito wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 12:46 pm
I would actually argue for some typical DKP system...
The raid leadership has discussed both DKP as well as EPGP systems. The only reason we don't run these systems is because nobody wants to be in charge of running those systems. It's a lot of extra work and requires someone to attend 100% of raids to track it all. I agree the random systems aren't optimal, but they work well enough for us.
Reito wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 12:46 pm
2. New players - nothing discourages a new player more than hearing "Yeah there is some loot for veteran players only" in the /world when they will ask on lvl 5 how does the server raiding work. And trust me this is exactly what the message will sound like down the line.
This is a legitimate criticism.
Obviously we can't control messaging in /world chat. But we are going to make it very clear how anyone can go from newbie to veteran status. Hopefully when new players hear some loot is reserved for veterans they'll also hear that it only takes a few weeks of regular raiding to become veterans themselves!
~Gifted