Crusader strike

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Methosmethos
Posts: 5

Crusader strike

Post by Methosmethos » Sat May 28, 2022 10:46 am

Just make it a ret Talent. Let it restore Mana and do weapon damage. Just a holy Mortal Strike. Problem solved

Geojak
Posts: 1097

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Geojak » Sat May 28, 2022 10:59 am

Many options. No CD crusader strike is rly bad idea imo.

But it has been discusses for months and months. Rly not worth the effort.

Just wait for the release. If it ever comes we can continue to complain. Since they already said the talent changelog is final and they won't change anything anymore

Which is kinda stupid since everyone except moon kinda agries this is scuffed design and therefor wasted effort to implement like that

Methosmethos
Posts: 5

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Methosmethos » Sat May 28, 2022 3:41 pm

You are absolutly right. I forgot to mention a 6-10 sec cooldown.

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Kwayver
Posts: 100
Location: Australia

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Kwayver » Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:31 pm

doing weap damage would make it scale better with 2H weapons, which is desirable.

Also it's stacking holy damage mechanic would serve rets better as a buff on themselves, rather than a debuff on the target. reason being there are already so few debuff slots for raid situations, rets would never be allowed to use crusader strike in a raid.
If they wanted to assist a prot paladin with holy damage for threat they still have the option of Judgement of the Crusader, so it doesnt conflict with existing mechanics.
Retpal for hire. Will cleanse, hand of freedom warrior, and pocket heal 2s upon request

Alphonso
Posts: 2

Re: Crusader strike

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Geojak
Posts: 1097

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Geojak » Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:20 am

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Novola
Posts: 41

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Novola » Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:55 am

From tanking perspective, i really like the idea of crusader strike having no CD, i can spam it on mobs, sort of like sunder, even though it has pretty high mana cost, only issue is that it apparently cause no additional threat.

Again, if you add weapon damage to it and short cd, imagine SoC procc, Holy strike, Crusader strike, you can one shot people with it.

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Kerebrien
Posts: 9

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Kerebrien » Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:03 am

People don't seem to get that magic damage is better than physical damage, and that holy damage is the best out of all magic damage, since there is no resist against it.
If anything, Paladin needs to have their Holy Strike removed asap or turned into physical damage. They are busted right now, PvP and PvE.

Geojak
Posts: 1097

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Geojak » Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:58 pm

Kerebrien wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:03 am
People don't seem to get that magic damage is better than physical damage, and that holy damage is the best out of all magic damage, since there is no resist against it.
If anything, Paladin needs to have their Holy Strike removed asap or turned into physical damage. They are busted right now, PvP and PvE.
i couldt disagree more

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Notawen
Posts: 123

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Notawen » Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:30 pm

Kerebrien wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:03 am
People don't seem to get that magic damage is better than physical damage, and that holy damage is the best out of all magic damage, since there is no resist against it.
If anything, Paladin needs to have their Holy Strike removed asap or turned into physical damage. They are busted right now, PvP and PvE.
This was certenly an opinion... I give you that...

Geojak
Posts: 1097

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Geojak » Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:31 pm

crusader strike doesnt even do holy dmg, which makes it a almost useless spell for prot paladins which was its inteneded usage... the spell is rly only good to procc weapon effects and to gain mana if used into jugment of wisdom with rank 1.

if it was holy dmg, it would deal quite good threat similair to sunder. but since paladins cant be rage starved in would only be balanced against bosses were warrios have endless rage anyway.

i believe the best solution is

1. a short 4 second CD on crusader strike
2. let CS deal holy instead of physical dmg (ok since now it has a cd)
3. let CS procc everything that hamstring can procc
4. give CS a very small AP and SP scaling coeeficient. but rly, like very very small

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Kwayver
Posts: 100
Location: Australia

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Kwayver » Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:30 pm

Geojak wrote:
Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:31 pm
crusader strike doesnt even do holy dmg, which makes it a almost useless spell for prot paladins which was its inteneded usage... the spell is rly only good to procc weapon effects and to gain mana if used into jugment of wisdom with rank 1.

if it was holy dmg, it would deal quite good threat similair to sunder. but since paladins cant be rage starved in would only be balanced against bosses were warrios have endless rage anyway.

i believe the best solution is

1. a short 4 second CD on crusader strike
2. let CS deal holy instead of physical dmg (ok since now it has a cd)
3. let CS procc everything that hamstring can procc
4. give CS a very small AP and SP scaling coeeficient. but rly, like very very small
Reason why CS will never become a hard-hitting ability:

Holy strike (possible crit)
Seal of command proc (possible crit)
Judgement of command (possible crit + double damage on stunned target)

That combination can already global people, and none of it uses a GCD. If you put a tbc style crusader strike into the mix, expect people to abuse it in PvP.
Retpal for hire. Will cleanse, hand of freedom warrior, and pocket heal 2s upon request

Geojak
Posts: 1097

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Geojak » Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:38 pm

But I didn't ask it to be hard hitting. Keep the low damage add a CD on it but turn it into holy dmg so it a ctuslly does threat. It only does 136 dmg anyway (currently reduced by armor)

Pls reread my suggestion if you think what I proposed is a buff for pvp (because it's not since the CD means slower stacking of debuffs meaning lower burst in pvp)

The base dmg is 136 dmg at max rank, I would make it scale with sp and sp so that a bus naxx geared Palas does about 200 dmg. Nothing pvp breaking

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Kwayver
Posts: 100
Location: Australia

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Kwayver » Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:34 pm

Geojak wrote:
Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:38 pm
But I didn't ask it to be hard hitting. Keep the low damage add a CD on it but turn it into holy dmg so it a ctuslly does threat. It only does 136 dmg anyway (currently reduced by armor)

Pls reread my suggestion if you think what I proposed is a buff for pvp (because it's not since the CD means slower stacking of debuffs meaning lower burst in pvp)

The base dmg is 136 dmg at max rank, I would make it scale with sp and sp so that a bus naxx geared Palas does about 200 dmg. Nothing pvp breaking
I have read your suggestion very closely. Fortunately I possess the capacity for thinking further than 1 step into the implications of the changes you're suggesting so let me draw a picture for you.

CS doing holy damage and having both SP and AP scaling means:
1. no more mitigation from armour/resistances.
2. 10% increased damage by sanctity aura.
3. 15% increased damage from vengeance (a higher base damage from scaling and armour ignoring damage type inflates % modifiers much higher).
4. It will hurt harder the more times you apply it because it's scaling with the debuff it's applying.
5. It will double dip scaling if used on a target with JotC in them (as these 2 effects are currently stacking).
6. Libram of Fervor + PvP gloves will further imbalance points 4 and 5.

Your suggestions applied as band aids create more problems than they solve. There is no easy solution to that problems for prot which won't have implications on ret pve and ret PvP because twow have invested too deeply into changes which pigeon hole the entire class into an inflexible corner.

Your idea would be far more balanced if it were tied to a deep prot talent instead of being a baseline change
Retpal for hire. Will cleanse, hand of freedom warrior, and pocket heal 2s upon request

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Kerebrien
Posts: 9

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Kerebrien » Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:34 am

Geojak wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:58 pm
Kerebrien wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:03 am
People don't seem to get that magic damage is better than physical damage, and that holy damage is the best out of all magic damage, since there is no resist against it.
If anything, Paladin needs to have their Holy Strike removed asap or turned into physical damage. They are busted right now, PvP and PvE.
i couldt disagree more
Thanks for displaying your complete lack of awareness for game balance design.

Geojak
Posts: 1097

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Geojak » Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:26 am

like i replied to you before, we can talk about paladin nerfs AFTER warrios got their well deserved nerf and stopped topic the meters

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Kerebrien
Posts: 9

Re: Crusader strike

Post by Kerebrien » Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:30 pm

Geojak wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:26 am
like i replied to you before, we can talk about paladin nerfs AFTER warrios got their well deserved nerf and stopped topic the meters
Balancing isn't all about raid DPS my dude.

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Bloodline1x9
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Re: Crusader strike

Post by Bloodline1x9 » Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:07 pm

I don't understand something or СS is broken?
Recently started lvling paladin and saw that this skill always deal 9 dmg. Doesn't stacks as it says in description. And not 12 dmg base as in discription.

And also the base does not receive bonus from SotC. No, i'm not telling about stack bonus. Its just doesn't improve from that and doesn't stacks from itself. Like that is not holy dmg.

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