[Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

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Roxanneflowers
Posts: 211

[Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Roxanneflowers » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:08 am

An experimental Discipline/Holy/Shadow spec for Night Elf Priests who want to maximize support for their Starshards racial spell.

"May the stars guide you."
Image




Disclaimers:


This is not intended to be a bleeding edge DPS optimized raiding Priest spec that will put everything else to shame (so buy now while supplies last!). If anything, this is intended to be a viable Damage Per Mana (DPM) efficient Priest spec to be played for FUN as a soloist and in 5 man groups in PvE content. That means that I'm looking at a build for leveling more than I am for raiding.



The primary purpose of this build is to explore the possibility of a potential off-meta spec which I have not seen anyone (else) show (enough) interest in (yet) to post an actual build for. This post is basically an answer to a question of mine ... which is that IF you were going to design a build to support use of Starshards as your primary damaging attack spell, then HOW would you go about selecting Talents to support that objective? Since Starshards is a Night Elf Priest only racial spell, this question is only relevant to Players interested in playing Night Elf Priests (who seem to be a decided minority of Alliance Priests, for somewhat obvious reasons of hardened Conventional Wisdom). I have to wonder if Night Elf Discipline/Holy Priests are even rarer than Moonkin Druids ... and if so, that notion only increases my desire to follow through on this experiment so as to share my conclusions and experiences with this community.



I also know that the prevailing opinion for Mages is "lol arcane" and that what I'm presenting here is in many ways a functional "Arcane Missiles by Priest" sort of build strategy by alternative means, which no doubt plenty of people will look askance at. However, the discoveries that I made HERE synergizing long Cast+Channel spell rotations is the cornerstone foundation for making this build one of (in not the most) mana efficient damage producing builds I've ever encountered.



Level 60 Night Elf Priest ( 21 / 25 / 5 )
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#bxgMsM0oZbxtMcbVZx

  • Discipline (21 points)
    • Unbreakable Will - Rank 5/5
      Increases your chance to resist Stun, Fear, and Silence effects by an additional 15%.
    • Silent Resolve - Rank 5/5
      Reduces the threat generated by your spells by 20%.
    • Improved Power Word: Fortitude - Rank 2/2
      Increases the effect of your Power Word: Fortitude and Prayer of Fortitude spells by 30%.
    • Martyrdom - Rank 2/2
      Gives you a 100% chance to gain the Focused Casting effect that lasts for 6 sec after being the victim of a melee or ranged critical strike. The Focused Casting effect prevents you from losing casting time when taking damage and increases resistance to Interrupt effects by 20%.
    • Inner Focus - Rank 1/1
      When activated, reduces the Mana cost of your next spell by 100% and increases its critical effect chance by 25% if it is capable of a critical effect.
    • Meditation - Rank 3/3
      Allows 15% of your Mana regeneration to continue while casting.
    • Mental Agility - Rank 2/5
      Reduces the mana cost of your instant cast spells by 4%.
    • Divine Spirit - Rank 1/1
      Holy power infuses the target, increasing their Spirit by 17 for 30 min.
  • Holy (25 points)
    • Healing Focus - Rank 2/2
      Gives you a 70% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting any healing spell.
    • Holy Specialization - Rank 5/5
      Increases the critical effect chance of your Holy spells by 5%.
    • Divine Fury - Rank 5/5
      Reduces the casting time of your Smite, Holy Fire, Heal and Greater Heal spells by 0.5 sec.
    • Holy Nova - Rank 1/1
      Causes an explosion of holy light around the caster, causing 28 to 33 Holy damage to all enemy targets within 10 yards and healing all party members within 10 yards for 52 to 61. These effects cause no threat.
    • Inspiration - Rank 2/3
      Increases your target's armor by 16% for 15 sec after getting a critical effect from your Flash Heal, Heal, Greater Heal, or Prayer of Healing spell.
    • Improved Healing - Rank 3/3
      Reduces the Mana cost of your Lesser Heal, Heal, and Greater Heal spells by 15%.
    • Searing Light - Rank 2/2
      Increases the damage of your Smite and Holy Fire spells by 10%.
    • Spiritual Guidance - Rank 5/5
      Increases spell damage and healing by up to 25% of your total Spirit.
  • Shadow (5 points)
    • Spirit Tap - Rank 5/5
      Gives you a 100% chance to gain a 100% bonus to your Spirit after killing a target that yields experience. For the duration, your Mana will regenerate at a 50% rate while casting. Lasts 15 sec.




One of the peculiar points about a Starshards oriented Priest build is that neither Starshards itself, nor Shadow Word: Pain for that matter, can critically hit … since they're both DoT spells (one channeled, the other instant). Your other Holy and Shadow damage and healing spells can critically hit though, so it makes sense to invest in raising critical hit chances for your Holy spells at least. But in a Starshards build, you're rarely going to be using Smite, except perhaps as a "filler" spell or those times when you combine it with Mind Blast for a particularly fast damage spike or an opening alpha strike while stuff is bumrushing towards you.

Instead, the primary spell rotation involves using Holy Fire, Starshards, melee hit … repeat. This is then a 10.0-10.5s spell rotation (when including melee hit) that makes optimal use of the DoT burn of Holy Fire while simultaneously leveraging mana recovery from Spirit in an extremely efficient way (MINIMUM 60% mana recovery from Spirit while continuously casting, up to 80-90%(!) depending on situational factors, talents and gear).

Now with the benefit of experience, I can say that investing in Divine Fury and Searing Light does help with the Holy Fire+Starshards+melee hit spell rotation more than I was expecting it to. Even though Searing Light only adds an extra +10% to one of the two main spells you're casting (Holy Fire), it also boosts Smite, and on more than one occasion that extra +10% damage on those Holy spells has meant the difference between needing to cast an extra spell or not. Reducing the number of spells cast to kill by -1 is helpful not only in saving time, but also in saving mana.

A side benefit of that investment into Divine Fury however is that you make a decent "off main" or solo healer, when the circumstances call for it. Indeed, relative to "main" healers, you aren't going to be that short on healing power from Holy, by comparison in talents. The main difference is that you won't have Holy Reach (for extra range), Spiritual Healing (for +10% more healing), or Spirit of Redemption, following the build strategy I've laid out. However the big thing you'd be short on is that as a Damage Per Mana (DPM) caster, if you gear for spellpower that's good for All Schools (and healing), you'll have less spellpower than if you were specializing in just healing cloth gear. So not a "main" healer, but you can certainly pick up the slack as an "off main" healer if need be ... which is just fine with me, since I would rather blast away as a damage dealer than get stuck "flying the gauges" as a healer anyway. But the swing role versatility is there, inside the build.



The thing that turns this build into an orbital artillery cannon is the sheer amount of Spirit that it can stack up AND MAKE USE OF while continuously casting. Spirit Tap DOUBLES your Spirit for 15s ... and yes, that includes +Spirit mods from equipped items. Divine Spirit increases your Spirit and can be cast on yourself. Spiritual Guidance gives you +1 Spellpower (all schools) for every 4 Spirit you have (drop fractions) when talented up to 5/5. If you have 400 Spirit, you've added +100 Spellpower to everything you can cast. All of which means that for this build Spirit is NOT your dump stat ...! On the contrary, given how much mana you can recover from Spirit while continuously casting, piling on more and more Spirit onto this build not only "deepens" your mana pool (in effect) it also increases how powerful your spells are at the same time ... win-Win-WIN!

Having played this build on both Darrowshire (Elysium) and Symmetry, I can categorically say that stacking as much Spirit as possible onto this build strategy can be rather ... eye watering ... is the most expressive way to put it. I was walking into Scarlet Monastery and Razorfen Downs with more than +100 total Spellpower @ Level 39 thanks to all the Spirit itemization I had equipped on top of the usual +Spellpower cloth pieces I'd tailored for myself, and I was taking full advantage of it (100% spellpower coefficients). It was glorious. turtle_in_love_head



The sum total of all of these disparate parts would appear to create a most unusual combination ... of an Arcane Night Elf Priest who is extremely mana efficient at producing sustained damage pressure on a single target, and with some ability to apply damage to multiple targets simultaneously (via Holy Nova). The irony of course being that this is a Priest build instead of a Mage build, and Night Elves are hardly renowned for their ... aptitude ... for the Arcane, having turned away from their arcane studies after the Sundering in a bid for survival. And yet, here is a build that combines Arcane, Holy and Shadow together (21/25/5) in what feels (to me) like a rather viable balance in, of all things, a Priest … and more specifically, in a Priest dedicated to the Goddess Elune.



This is a talent build that (probably) only someone who allowed themselves to bathe in the light of Elune could love and follow in our world. Fortunately, that's where still I am, standing for the Goddess in the place between the Shadow and the Light.



/pray



/cast Starshards
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Dragunovi
Posts: 235

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Dragunovi » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:43 am

Alright, I needed something like this for my smite/starshards priest.
Sometimes makes items, feel free to query on Discord for questions!

Balake
Posts: 735

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Balake » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:43 am

Note: I am looking at this build as mostly a solo content one, with dungeon dpsing and healing as side-roles.

Looks fun and possibly really strong if you borrow paul's arcane set. Though I'm not sure about the talent choices. Why take Unbreakable Will instead of wand spec (Wands are universally good even if not used often, while I don't see the anti-cc talent helping much.). Also, Martyrdom and Silent Resolve are talent points that could have been spent elsewhere. Mobs of the same level only have a 5% chance to crit, but power word shield gives you permanent anti-pushback so Imp. PWS would be the better talent choice. Also 5 whole points on Silent Resolve. This build is not going to do insane DPS anyways, and that's fine because that's not it's point. It's an efficient DPM build, it's not going to get threat off a tank any time soon, and there is always Fade for emergencies. Mental Agility on the other hand is deserving of a whole 5 points. It reduces the mana cost of PWS, Starshards, Renew, SWP etc...

While your build is certainly a good all-rounder spec, I think this one could work better for certain things https://classicdb.ch/?talent#bVRhsV0oZcxtzcbVZx and it also has a more natural talent path for leveling.

Roxanneflowers
Posts: 211

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Roxanneflowers » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:47 pm

Balake wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:43 am
Why take Unbreakable Will instead of wand spec (Wands are universally good even if not used often, while I don't see the anti-cc talent helping much.).
Talent points spent on Wands are only relevant while using your Wand, which actively prevents you from spellcasting. You'll also get more bonus damage out of the total +Spellpower the build generates from Spirit than you will from the Wand talent. Being able to resist Stun, Fear and Silence effects will passively help prevent casting interrupts, which is the primary purpose of wanting to support mainline casting of Starshards, a channeled spell.
Balake wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:43 am
Also, Martyrdom and Silent Resolve are talent points that could have been spent elsewhere.
Silent Resolve reduces threat from ALL spells cast ... including healing. I consider that valuable. However, if you want to repurpose that investment elsewhere in your own build ... go ahead.
Balake wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:43 am
Mobs of the same level only have a 5% chance to crit, but power word shield gives you permanent anti-pushback so Imp. PWS would be the better talent choice.
The Improved Power Word: Shield talent only boosts the base spell and does not boost any bonus from +Spellpower (which has a terrible coefficient of like 10% for this spell). So in my judgement the talent fell into the category of Nice To Have but something I didn't have enough talent points left over to invest in, so it got dropped.
Balake wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:43 am
Also 5 whole points on Silent Resolve. This build is not going to do insane DPS anyways, and that's fine because that's not it's point. It's an efficient DPM build, it's not going to get threat off a tank any time soon
Except ... the build gets almost exponentially stronger as you increase in levels due to the increases in Spellpower coming from equipped gear and Spirit. However, if threat reductions talents just aren't your thing, repurpose those talent points elsewhere to suit your preferences if you're wanting to play something analogous to the build I've provided.
Balake wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:43 am
Mental Agility on the other hand is deserving of a whole 5 points. It reduces the mana cost of PWS, Starshards, Renew, SWP etc...
Starshards is a channeled spell. It is not instant cast.
I would also point out that of the other spells you cite, I found myself in practice only using Power Word: Shield on a routine basis. Shadow Word: Pain was rarely if ever getting used when I was playing the build, because it takes 18 seconds to deal all of its damage and I was terminating most targets before that amount of time could elapse (wasting damage potential and mana recovery ticks). So on balance, I would only use Shadow Word: Pain when needing to deal a huge spike of damage in as short a time as possible at the expense of mana efficiency ... which was actually a rare occurrence but did happen a few times. Fighting the mobs up by the water wheel at the waterfall in Stonetalon was once such situation to prevent the engineers from spawning their Elite pets with more HP than they had.

So my experience was that when soloing I was casting remarkably few instant cast spells as a matter of routine. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Balake wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:43 am
While your build is certainly a good all-rounder spec, I think this one could work better for certain things https://classicdb.ch/?talent#bVRhsV0oZcxtzcbVZx and it also has a more natural talent path for leveling.
If your alternative build makes you happy ... play it!

Balake
Posts: 735

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Balake » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:57 pm

You make good points. but I think channeled spells could be instant or not instant
They are instant because they don't require a cast time before the channel actually starts, and the oppposite is true. Some spells have a cast time that then starts a channel (Like Mind Control and Ritual of Summoning).
I don't know if the game considers them this way though, testing is the only way to find out.

Roxanneflowers
Posts: 211

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Roxanneflowers » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:24 pm

Balake wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:57 pm
You make good points.
Bad habit of mine. I'll stop doing it eventually ... turtle_tongue
Balake wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:57 pm
But I think channeled spells could be instant or not instant
They are instant because they don't require a cast time before the channel actually starts, and the opposite is true. Some spells have a cast time that then starts a channel (Like Mind Control and Ritual of Summoning).
I don't know if the game considers them this way though, testing is the only way to find out.
Pretty darn sure that Starshards is a not instant channeled spell.
Mind Control and Ritual of Summoning are examples of extended duration (minute or more) spells. Starshards is more like a programming port of Curse of Agony from Warlocks into being a non-instant spell that feels more like Arcane Missiles from a Mage (so it's this curious hybrid combo of the two). Arcane Missiles does equal damage on each DoT tick, while Starshards ramps up its damage on the 2nd, 4th and 6th damage ticks (1 per second for the channel duration). The math for it gets kind of wonky since it's more like "shares of 1/18th the total damage" done in a 2/2/3/3/4/4 sequence.
1st DoT tick = 2/18ths of total damage
2nd DoT tick = 2/18ths of total damage
3rd DoT tick = 3/18ths of total damage
4th DoT tick = 3/18ths of total damage
5th DoT tick = 4/18ths of total damage
6th DoT tick = 4/18ths of total damage
= 18/18ths of total damage if all 6 DoT ticks land

So Starshards works like a channeled version of Curse of Agony that is channeled in 6 seconds for 6 DoT ticks rather than being 24 seconds for 6 DoT ticks like Curse of Agony delivers ... so faster damage throughput that ramps upwards at the end, but you have to channel to do it with Starshards (like Arcane Missiles and unlike Curse of Agony).

I'm just going to file that tidbit under The More You Know™ ...

Balake
Posts: 735

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Balake » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:32 pm

It is channeled, of course. But instant means that it does not have a cast time, which it doesn't. Drain life is an example of a spell that has 0 sec cast time (instant) + 5 second channel. Smite has a 3.5 sec cast time (so not instant) + 0 second channel (so not a channeled ability). Mind Control however has I think 2 sec cast time (so not instant) + I think 10 second channel (so it is a channel ability).

Also, I looked into Classic wowhead and it seems the talent Mental Agility actually affects Starshards in classic. I don't know if it works the same here but it should https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=14780/mental-agility (it is listed under affected spells)
Conclusion is channeled abilities count as instant spells if they don't have a cast time that has to be finished before the channeling starts like it is with mind control.

Roxanneflowers
Posts: 211

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Roxanneflowers » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:57 pm

I have never seen that definition of instant cast applied before.
To my knowledge there were 3 categories of spells ... instant, cast and channeled.

Bare minimum though, I agree with you that there ought to be some testing of whether Mental Agility affects the mana cost of Starshards here on Turtle WoW ... if only to be sure of the "correct" interpretation of how the game mechanics actually work, as opposed to how they "ought to" work based on various assumptions.

Jfvaldesster
Posts: 9

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Jfvaldesster » Sat May 06, 2023 5:08 am

Balake wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:32 pm
It is channeled, of course. But instant means that it does not have a cast time, which it doesn't. Drain life is an example of a spell that has 0 sec cast time (instant) + 5 second channel. Smite has a 3.5 sec cast time (so not instant) + 0 second channel (so not a channeled ability). Mind Control however has I think 2 sec cast time (so not instant) + I think 10 second channel (so it is a channel ability).

Also, I looked into Classic wowhead and it seems the talent Mental Agility actually affects Starshards in classic. I don't know if it works the same here but it should https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=14780/mental-agility (it is listed under affected spells)
Conclusion is channeled abilities count as instant spells if they don't have a cast time that has to be finished before the channeling starts like it is with mind control.
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=1 ... odified-by

This is the real night elf priest spell, it doesn't seem to be as you say.

I think that ability needs a redesign to make it more attractive, maybe it works like the starfall of balance druid in wotlk

N8owl
Posts: 5

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by N8owl » Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:21 am

Works just fine in dungeons. You can spam Starshards and Holy Fire and get the 2 full Nana ticks because of the 5s rule.
Starshard is a channeled spell like Mind Flay. Mana is taken at the beginning of the spellcast and after 5s you get your full mana ticks.
With Starshard >> Melee (or wand) >> Holy Fire you get 3-4 ticks of full Mana regeneration with viable damage.
Blizzard had a bug that resets Mana ticks if you took points in Meditation, don't know if Turte has the same problem. I usually don't take points in Meditation anyways, not worth 3 points without the right equipment.

Problem in solo leveling is that you tools to mitigate spellcancel is Shield, fear or Martyrdom. If your last ticks of Starshards fail your Mana efficiency is fucked.

So ...
- You can't use Starshard to pull, because the normal runnspeed in Wow is ~8m/s and you only have 30m range.
- You can't use Martyrdom , because it is exactly 6s long and the mob will take away your last Starshard tick.
- You can use Psychic Scream if you follow the mob for 2s and then cast it if the mob does his first direction change.
- You can use Shield and get 2 rotations off.

Fixes to Starshard (OR statements):
1. Make it 40m range, so it can work with fear and for pulls.
2. Add a slow effect (see 1.)
3. Disable range check after initial spellcast, so the feared mob can not run out of range
4. add 1,5s to Martyrdom (global cool down), so you are protected for the full duration of Starshards.


AAAnd it will never happen. ;)

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Sinrek
Posts: 1222
Location: England

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Sinrek » Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:25 am

Funny enough I've been using something similar although slightly different for some time now and I have to admit you've shown some commitment to putting this together for all to embrace.

Very well done! satisfied_turtle
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

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Starweaver
Posts: 11

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Starweaver » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:21 am

This is my favorite obscure post I've come across on TWoW forums so far. Thanks.

I've been trying to do research on Starshards to see if it would benefit from proc items such as Wrath of Cenarius (exalted rep Cenarion Circle ring) or Blade of Eternal Darkness (dagger from Princess in Mara) but I haven't found a single information source or anecdote concerning this matter =/

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Mativh
Posts: 253

Re: [Priest] Elune's Spirit Guide (21/25/5 Night Elf)

Post by Mativh » Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:10 pm

I commend you on your creativity, also it was a pleasure to read about your discovery. I've tried a starshards priest with +arcane items at one point, it has a 1.6% better sp coefficient per tick then mind flay. I'd add sw:pain between holy fire and starshards.

I've made an update with the current twow talents:
https://talents.turtle-wow.org/priest/U1K9K06-3UVI6C5-U
- with inner fire adding attack power, and meleeweaving being part of the rotation, picking improved inner fire is a good option.
- since melee is going to be improved, I went for stun resist in case one would play with warmode, instead of wands, and if the priest is interrupted, there are two schools of magic to choose from so being school-locked isn't an issue, and wand attack weaving doesnt work because it triggers gcd

To deal with starshards pushback:
- improved pw:shield, and add to it reflective shields for extra damage, if sw:p is in the rotation, putting points into improved sw:p might be better than reflective shields
- while under weakened soul, have a macro to /sit in order to get critically hit and trigger martyrdom, do this right before casting sw:p in order for the mob hitting you once before you cast starshards so it benefits from the full 6 sec of preventing pushback, mitigate the crit damage with 25% heal from blessed recovery and an improved renew if needed.
I wonder what you think.

I like this starshards priest, is an elegant build where everything fits like clockwork, thanks for sharing it. Also it's the closest to having a de-standardized Night Elf Priest of Elune.
All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

De-standardization of Classes - Immersive Racials [Undead]
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