Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

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Geojak
Posts: 300

Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Geojak » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:44 pm

Hello, i would like to propose the following change for paladins and discuss it furhter.

New 31 retri talent:
Inquisition: Allows the usage of exocism against all targets and increases the damage against undead and demons by 25% or incraese the crit chance instead by 10% against undead and demons.

Looking this exocism behind retri last talent point prevents schockadins to get another tool and get too bursty. it will also prevent paladins to gain it before lvl 40 and mess with balance while leveling. only when paladin dmg starts to get worse and worse the exocism comes in.

This will minimally derivate from the vanilla paladin design, since exocism is already part of the paldain toolkit and has proven to be balanced in places like naxx of strath.

By giving exocism different damage against demons and undeands than all other targets, we do still keep the vanilla differentation. just softening it up.

Alternatively the talent could be that exocism does only 80% of the damage against non undeads and demons. This can be considered if pvp balance is concerned, but retri need a buff in pvp so why give them something only to make it shit?

I craeted this topic becuase i saw frequent post in paladin discord asking for Soc removal or SotC compelte reworks for the sake of buffing paladins. I love the old paladin vanilla design and i dont want unvanilla changes. And this is in my opinion a smaller change as paladin can already use exocism for example in places like strathholme, scholo and it is not op.

Lastly i has a 15 sec CD, which keeps the spirit of paladins that do not spamm stuff on every global cooldown. I fear the introduction of Crusader strike with no cooldown would hurt paldains identity of a chill class.
Lastly Crusader strike having a debuff similiar to the Judgement of SotC is to me very problematic as it means players might need to abandon the vanilla pala playstyle of judging crusader. This would be a major change in my eyes to how paladins are played on turtle.

I think exocism would be a better soluton with less changes. Also the current retir 31 talent sucks...
Last edited by Geojak on Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Geojak
Posts: 300

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Geojak » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:54 pm

in order to fit this new 31 talent into the tree. the current 31 stun spell talent against humanoids could take the position of 21 Spell (SoC in the turtle talent tree) and SoC becomes baseline at lvl 20

or alternatively make it so that retri has to 31 talents points like the new turtle arcane tree
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Karrados
Posts: 24

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Karrados » Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:52 pm

Making Seal of Command baseline would be insane considering that Shockadins would basically get a huge burst on demand with Stun + Judge which is something that must be considered even if PVP is supposedly a low priority here.

Geojak
Posts: 300

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Geojak » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:47 pm

Don't shockadins already have Soc. It is currently just 11 points deep in ret tree and we are planning currently with the turtle trees to remove that.

IF that is intended to nerf shockadins by remove Soc then we could use my alternative of two 31 talents.

But are shockadins so op in pvp they need a nerf?
Beviase that's is what is happening.

Making soc baseline doesn't rly buff shockadins, since they can have it already. It just allows them to stay about the same
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Geojak
Posts: 300

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Geojak » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:50 pm

What happens to Soc rank 1 at lvl 20 when the talent gets moved to lvl 30. I think changing soc to be more restrocted will have unwanted consequences for leveling
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Bitterman
Posts: 23

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Bitterman » Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:06 am

Interesting would be SoC as a reward for Completing Verigan's fist quest
Not only for who will be getting a solid weapon for DPS and healing, but also because it is your duty as paladin to learn more about the class.

Geojak
Posts: 300

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Geojak » Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:58 am

Just make a completely new lvl 20 custom quests. Something that requires the paladin to actually command a small troop
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Geojak
Posts: 300

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Geojak » Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:04 am

The cathedral paladin teacher will sent you to the dwarf pala teacher and the dwarf pala teacher then gives you the real quest, commander of the light.

The main quest would look like this. Player needs to go to the iron forge airfield and talk with an npc to start an escort quest "battle forged commander" to raid against trolls.

Then a group of dwarf soldiers spawn and start an attack against the trolls. You need to keep them all alive to compelte the quests and fight your way trough a few waves of trolls spawned and a named boss at the end.
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Monmothma21
Posts: 35
Location: Eastern EU

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Monmothma21 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:58 pm

Could existing talents be reinforced with some kind of capstone bonuses instead? Like in,- you get additional bonus effect upon getting last level of a specified talent.

There was a talent introduced in panda expansion called "Evil is a Point of View", it allowed you to use [Turn Evil] on humanoids and beasts. If its possible to add a capstone bonus i would put it on [Improved Judgement].
[Improved Judgement] - Decreases the cooldown of your Judgement spell by 1/2 sec.
Capstone bonus: allows using Exorcism agains Humanoids and Beasts for reduced damage.
Ive chosen [Improved Judgement] for flavour only(as in "Evil is a Point of View" example above - you "improve your Judgement" and "shift your point of View", which allows you to Exorcise more enemy types). Having it as an [Improved Judgement] capstone means holy paladins would have access to it.. so if you think its too much - suggest another talent.

Capstone could not only add the ability you want but also make player specificly bee-line towards certain talents to get it. This removes the need of moving/changing(completly) other talents and makes player pay for the bonus by max-ing a specific talent(which they might want anyway/or not).
English is not my first language, not even second or third. Brace yourselves. sad_turtle

Notawen
Posts: 48

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Notawen » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:23 pm

I had an idea like this before
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2338

Geojak
Posts: 300

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Geojak » Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:14 am

Yeah I have read your thread. Honestly I didn't reaaaaly like the idea
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Geojak
Posts: 300

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Geojak » Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:21 am

Paladin discord often discusses seal of crusader and coming crusader strike.

Will share my point of view on the issue.
First, making both habe Similiar debuff is contradicting vanilla paladin design, so I removing or making judgement of crusader obsolete.

Instead I would like to propose a merge that buffs the ability without complete rework

Make the seal of crusader judgment basically, crusader strike, so it deals weapon damage and has a stacking debuff.

Secondly the seals effect itself needs changes. change the talent effect of improved crusader to make seal of crusader hit a second target for 15/25/35% weapon damage per swing like sweeping strikes. This will give paladins a second aoe ability based on weapon damage.
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Geojak
Posts: 300

Re: Exocism against all targets 31 Talent

Post by Geojak » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:48 pm

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