Tank Diversity

[Mythox]

With this being predominantly Vanilla + , will we see some viability in possible itemization ( possible new tier sets) to make Bear tanks or Prot pally more relevant for tanking? It is in there toolkit and we see some new items in game which add to diversity when levelling etc.

[Yutilk]

i think bear and pally tanks are fine. Um maybe we can improve another tank class to lessen the tank drought?

[Lahire]

Both are already viable tanks.
Bears are even almost optimal: you can have a bear tank through all the content without problem.
Paladin is not optimal, but can perform through all dungeons and at least half the raids ; so it is viable. It's just sweatier.

Would be more interesting to push through itemization a 4th tank spec, like shaman enhanc. They are not viable today, but for the flexest players of all. Perhaps they are one set away from being viable (not to confuse with optimal).

[Rytz]

Paladins are already overpowered as a hybrid class. They don't need more. If anything, they should get a nerf.

Druid bear tanks have a lot of class utility also and have the highest armor (value). It's debatable whether they are overpowered or not.

Warrior tanks are the only non-hybrid tank and offer no real utility for groups and raids outside of Battle Shout. You can almost view deep prot as a "non-support support" class because it is barely viable solo. They're only upside is that they have the best tanking gear (stats and defense) and cooldowns. Warrior could use some tweaks to shield mechanics and their shouts to make Deep Protection more viable (and to also beat out the fury-prot meta).

Shaman tanks SHOULD be more viable IMO because they have talents and abilities for threat. They should be able to counter Paladins. Either give them plate armor or beef up their abilities to give them better obtainable armor values and better threat management. To me, shamans tanks feel like an unfinished idea by Blizzard.

(my warrior shield suggestions)
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2051

[Yutilk]

Both are already viable tanks.
Bears are even almost optimal: you can have a bear tank through all the content without problem.
Paladin is not optimal, but can perform through all dungeons and at least half the raids ; so it is viable. It's just sweatier.

Would be more interesting to push through itemization a 4th tank spec, like shaman enhanc. They are not viable today, but for the flexest players of all. Perhaps they are one set away from being viable (not to confuse with optimal).

um shaman tank is viable. I believe you intended to say make them better or more-viable through an item set.

[Lahire]

Shaman tank isn't viable in raids, only in dungeon.
You really need to be the chaddest of chads to perform as shaman tank in raid, so I don't think it can be called "viable" (as this term supposes that it is possible to perform as this role for a good portion of players, init?). It's far harder than pal or teddy tanks (near impossible from BWL onwards).

[Velite]

Problem is I've yet to see a shaman tank able to be a hateful strike soaker in vanilla, I'm sure it's possible with world buffs but not without. I've seen paladins do it however, just barely.

[Velite]

Paladins are already overpowered as a hybrid class. They don't need more. If anything, they should get a nerf.

Druid bear tanks have a lot of class utility also and have the highest armor (value). It's debatable whether they are overpowered or not.

Warrior tanks are the only non-hybrid tank and offer no real utility for groups and raids outside of Battle Shout. You can almost view deep prot as a "non-support support" class because it is barely viable solo. They're only upside is that they have the best tanking gear (stats and defense) and cooldowns. Warrior could use some tweaks to shield mechanics and their shouts to make Deep Protection more viable (and to also beat out the fury-prot meta).

Shaman tanks SHOULD be more viable IMO because they have talents and abilities for threat. They should be able to counter Paladins. Either give them plate armor or beef up their abilities to give them better obtainable armor values and better threat management. To me, shamans tanks feel like an unfinished idea by Blizzard.

(my warrior shield suggestions)
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2051

Druid tanks with mcp and bis gear actually have the highest threat of a non-thunderfury tank in the game.

[Rytz]

Druid tanks with mcp and bis gear actually have the highest threat of a non-thunderfury tank in the game.

I can't really comment because I don't have extensive knowledge of bear tanks. I don't doubt it, though.

Generally speaking, hybrid classes should not be "best" at anything. Including tanking. Warrior is not a hybrid class and offers essentially no utility for groups and raids. Therefore, in my opinion, protection warriors should be the best tanks because it's a very singular role. I plan on writing another suggestion thread on how to improve warrior AoE threat.

[Mythox]

I agree that Pally and Bear tanks are viable , but it is there gearing , items sets are aimed at healing so as we progress in raids it is really a Warrior that has a set aimed at tanking. Would it be game breaking or OP if we seen some sets aimed at a Bear or Protadin ? I mean the good thing with a tier set is you need to be consistent and keep that grind to obtain it all.

[Yutilk]

Problem is I've yet to see a shaman tank able to be a hateful strike soaker in vanilla, I'm sure it's possible with world buffs but not without. I've seen paladins do it however, just barely.

Indeed! you are correct, it starts to get very hard to tank Naxx bosses, hence why Naxx is not advised for casual shaman tank players. In order to legitimately tank Naxx bosses, you will need to know your stuff.

As to why some people think they can't go past BWL is beyond me...

Shaman tank isn't viable in raids, only in dungeon.
You really need to be the chaddest of chads to perform as shaman tank in raid, so I don't think it can be called "viable" (as this term supposes that it is possible to perform as this role for a good portion of players, init?). It's far harder than pal or teddy tanks (near impossible from BWL onwards).

[Velite]

I agree that Pally and Bear tanks are viable , but it is there gearing , items sets are aimed at healing so as we progress in raids it is really a Warrior that has a set aimed at tanking. Would it be game breaking or OP if we seen some sets aimed at a Bear or Protadin ? I mean the good thing with a tier set is you need to be consistent and keep that grind to obtain it all.

It wouldn't but some people would object to it being vanilla if things made sense

[Velite]

Druid tanks with mcp and bis gear actually have the highest threat of a non-thunderfury tank in the game.

I can't really comment because I don't have extensive knowledge of bear tanks. I don't doubt it, though.

Generally speaking, hybrid classes should not be "best" at anything. Including tanking. Warrior is not a hybrid class and offers essentially no utility for groups and raids. Therefore, in my opinion, protection warriors should be the best tanks because it's a very singular role. I plan on writing another suggestion thread on how to improve warrior AoE threat.

Warrior should be the best but not the only tank option, which is basically the scenario here, or we wouldn't be having this forum discussion.

[Rytz]

Warrior should be the best but not the only tank option, which is basically the scenario here, or we wouldn't be having this forum discussion.

The only hybrid tank that needs a boost or gear changes is Shaman. Paladin and bear are fine as hybrid tanks. Either warrior is the best or it's not.

[Lahire]

Warrior should be the best but not the only tank option, which is basically the scenario here, or we wouldn't be having this forum discussion.

Warrior isn't the "only tank option", bear and pala are perfectly viable.

[Rafale]

Wartank is the best for 99% of encounters.
Beartank is viable for everything and the best for 1% of encounters.
Palatank is never the best, not viable for some encounters, but viable for others.
Shamantank isn't viable for any 40-raid. No guild will ever seek for a shamantank.

[Velite]

I have to agree, for me a viable tank means that you don't need to replace that person for a fight. And this is unfortunately the case for shamans and paladins due to lack of a taunt.

[Afaslizo]

Druid tanks with mcp and bis gear actually have the highest threat of a non-thunderfury tank in the game.

I can't really comment because I don't have extensive knowledge of bear tanks. I don't doubt it, though.

Generally speaking, hybrid classes should not be "best" at anything. Including tanking. Warrior is not a hybrid class and offers essentially no utility for groups and raids. Therefore, in my opinion, protection warriors should be the best tanks because it's a very singular role. I plan on writing another suggestion thread on how to improve warrior AoE threat.

That is why I like the class design of BC the best because it makes all roles viable but you would take specialists over generalists most of the time while generalists were still able to take on most of the challenges.

Paladins were great at trash tanking and off tanking at certain bosses and bears were mainly brought to soak cleave. Both were great for 5-Mans while neither was chosen over the warrior in most instances (except Paladin for Karazhan and Shattered Halls).

You took shadows with you as mana battery and damage push for casters and foremost your warlocks. You had shamans buff either melee or magic.

Still they were largely confined to healing or support but they had options.

Since altering the class systems for vanilla is largely a no go itemization could allow a similar approach while enshrining hybrid tax without it being hybrid punishment (viablity is not balance or jack of all trades but fun instead of frustration). The goal is enjoyment for all players not that people are punished for playing classes they like the way they like.

[Augustfenix85]

More Shaman tank gear please. Calmore need a new goal for gear. I’m missing a few things, mainly due to me not having a lot of time lately but it would be a big draw for me. Maybe even a better totem item slot for tanking would be good.