Dynamic Raid Scaling

Walters
Posts: 10

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Walters » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:07 pm

Honestly. You should had started this server with this feature, the population could have been huge by now. But sadly, at this moment (only 1 month before classic) it is not worth the time.

Skullmiser
Posts: 63

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Skullmiser » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:33 pm

I don't really like it... If you you only have 20, you do Zul'Gurub or AQ 20. If you only have about ten, you do Upper Blackrock Spire. If you don't have a key, keep running Lower Blackrock.

If this is implemented, then there should be some population value on which we agree ahead of time that this would no longer be needed.

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Bazou
Posts: 10

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Bazou » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:35 am

It's a good idea and I like it! I came from another vanilla server called "Retro", and they went further, squeezing down to 5-persons-raid, but the farming didn't bring good for the community. the relationship among players in Retro became more and more chilly, and the desire for top-end gears
became more and more intense. So I suggest that the number of people can be reduced, but not reduced to 5.

Once again, I sincerely thank the developers' effort !You guys are the BEST! happy_turtle_head

Lefaux
Posts: 30

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Lefaux » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:38 am

The more I think it through the less I like it.
I don't know about you, but raiding things like MC and Ony and (to a degree) BWL are more than trivial.
The challenge for me is to get 40 people working together.
And the reward is getting me AND the other 39 people sweet purples apart from my main motivation: having an amazing time with them.
So I can optimize my play time - by shortening the raidsize to 20 people, finding more dedicated people only focussed on one thing: Epic Items.
It takes the soul out of raiding for me and since I don't play progress (let's face it.... the bosses have been defeated 15 years ago) I'd rather keep the soul than optimizing loot drops.
Speaking of drops:
Gearing up a raid twice as fast shortens overall playing time.
Following that logic, why play at all?
Pompa could just put the items up on the shop for [iLvl] = [Turtle Token].

Raiding in Vanilla is not about skill.
It's about dedication... mainly a timesink.
But for me the timesink is about the joy of one of my fellow raiders completing their set or finally getting that killer trinket.

And finally I for myself can say that it's a different thing to down Hakkar with 20 people or having a high pitched noise in my ear for 15 minutes because 40 people went mental on Discord because Ragnaros bit the dust.

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Pompa
Posts: 338

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Pompa » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:52 am

Lefaux wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:38 am
The more I think it through the less I like it.
I don't know about you, but raiding things like MC and Ony and (to a degree) BWL are more than trivial.
The challenge for me is to get 40 people working together.
And the reward is getting me AND the other 39 people sweet purples apart from my main motivation: having an amazing time with them.
So I can optimize my play time - by shortening the raidsize to 20 people, finding more dedicated people only focussed on one thing: Epic Items.
It takes the soul out of raiding for me and since I don't play progress (let's face it.... the bosses have been defeated 15 years ago) I'd rather keep the soul than optimizing loot drops.
Speaking of drops:
Gearing up a raid twice as fast shortens overall playing time.
Following that logic, why play at all?
Pompa could just put the items up on the shop for [iLvl] = [Turtle Token].

Raiding in Vanilla is not about skill.
It's about dedication... mainly a timesink.
But for me the timesink is about the joy of one of my fellow raiders completing their set or finally getting that killer trinket.

And finally I for myself can say that it's a different thing to down Hakkar with 20 people or having a high pitched noise in my ear for 15 minutes because 40 people went mental on Discord because Ragnaros bit the dust.
First of all, thank for your feedback and your compromise to this server, Lefaux.

I understand you, but you must understand too that we don't have a Blizzlike population. Because of that, we can't have Blizzlike required players. You just recently reached level 60, but there are players that have been doing UBRS and 5 man instances for more than half a year, and many of them left, which is understandable. It's not fair to not let them progress.

However, remember two things: the mechanics (and spell damage / effects) are the same and the possibility of doing those raids with 20 and 40 people will still exist.

It hurts when a player leaves, specially if it's a level 60 one. I love our players and every decision I make is to let them have fun and a good time in our Turtle realm.
Turtle developer.

If you love us, vote for us!

Lefaux
Posts: 30

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Lefaux » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:10 am

Don't get me wrong please.
I fully understand why you plan to roll the change out and your reasoning is sound.
It's a necessity.

Think of it like taxes.
I don't like paying 4000 EUR in taxes each month, yet I understand the necessity for taxes :)
Still doesn't make me like it turtle_tongue_head

I will remain dedicated to this realm no matter if you roll the change out or not.
To me, being part of a community is much like being married... through good times and bad times ;-)

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Kazgrim
Posts: 253

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Kazgrim » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:15 pm

You pay 4000 EUR a month???? U must make some serious bank


On topic:

I like the idea, I just hope that the level of difficulty remains the same. Also, turtle tokens for players who arnt scaling sounds like a good reward.
Chieftain of the Dreadskull Clan
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Check out my patches in the modding section!
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Skullmiser
Posts: 63

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Skullmiser » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:47 am

I like small servers, because all the guilds tend to be more inclusive. Less choosy, more accepting.. but now if someone is not totally optimal, it may be better to not take them at all, since it'll just make things harder for everyone, scaling it up a bit.

I still don't like the idea.

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Pompa
Posts: 338

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Pompa » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:32 pm

Skullmiser wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:47 am
I like small servers, because all the guilds tend to be more inclusive. Less choosy, more accepting.. but now if someone is not totally optimal, it may be better to not take them at all, since it'll just make things harder for everyone, scaling it up a bit.

I still don't like the idea.
Thanks a lot for your feedback, and I'm sorry you don't like it. However, I don't think what you say will happen here.

Please, read the answer I wrote for Lefaux. Adaptation is key.
Turtle developer.

If you love us, vote for us!

Sesostris
Posts: 5

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Sesostris » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:33 pm

Athena here!
I love you guys for all your effort and hard work.
I love the change and believe that it will work fine as long as we collaborate to make it run smoothly.
Keep up the good work.

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Torta
Posts: 557

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Torta » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:15 am

Scaling is now live. Thank you for all your feedback, let's hope this change will do us only good.

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Kainnee
Posts: 38

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Kainnee » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:22 pm

Pompa wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:52 am
I understand you, but you must understand too that we don't have a Blizzlike population. Because of that, we can't have Blizzlike required players. You just recently reached level 60, but there are players that have been doing UBRS and 5 man instances for more than half a year, and many of them left, which is understandable. It's not fair to not let them progress.

However, remember two things: the mechanics (and spell damage / effects) are the same and the possibility of doing those raids with 20 and 40 people will still exist.

It hurts when a player leaves, specially if it's a level 60 one. I love our players and every decision I make is to let them have fun and a good time in our Turtle realm.
"Old" lvl 60 here, in fact first alliance lvl 60, and here are my two cents: Every decision that goes against the spirit of the game is a negative one for me. I love leveling in vanilla and I love raiding in vanilla. It's why I still do it after 14 years. Lvl 40 raids are precisely the reason I play vanilla after all. Sizing down raids was one of the (imo) worst decisions they did to the game and the reason why I can't even stand TBC or WotLk. I - as a longtime lvl 60 - would rather not have scaled down raids. I'd also rather not have crossfaction. I do know that I can't get everything I wish for and there are compromises to be made but I just want to say: Decisions like this can also be the reason why players leave.

About the implemented downscaling: As a raidleader and player who outperforms 99,9% of the people he plays with in a raid environment I can only recommend that you scale down the loot as well. Also, this should explicitly (like crossfaction) be a thing tied to the low population and small lvl 60 community. Once/If the server can live without this feature, it should be disabled asap.

regards,
Kainnee

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Sinrek
Posts: 607

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Sinrek » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:53 pm

Where's the line when we don't need it?
Support the Turtle smiling_turtle vote for the server HERE.

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Seelenschmied
Posts: 56

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Seelenschmied » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:39 am

I think it is a superb thing for this relatively small server.

Walters
Posts: 10

Re: Dynamic Raid Scaling

Post by Walters » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:15 am

Kainnee wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:22 pm
As a raidleader and player who outperforms 99,9% of the people he plays with
Your highness! Where can we get in line for a chance to take a smell of your sacred farts??? Srsly, what a tool.

Also:
>> loves raiding
>> can't even stand TBC or WotLk (where people actually started rading) FACEPALM_TURTLE

He is either biggest troll out here or just another wannabe "veteran".

AS FOR THE TOPIC once again: for a small pop server its a GREAT idea, but sadly too late (weeks before classic)

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