Dynamic Raid Scaling

[Pompa]

Greetings my turtles! We have been developing a system that will scale raids dynamically depending on the number of players that are doing it. Today, we finished the development and after testing it seems to work perfectly fine.

We have been thinking about this because we need to be aware that even if we have the best community, we are not that big, and letting our level 60 players do PvE content without needing to set up the raid meeting MONTHS before the actual date is the best we can do to make everyone happy.

But, as you already know, we are very transparent, so before applying any change to the current state of the server, we want to ask you what do you think.

This is how the scaling system is developed at this moment:

· 20 man raids will scale from 12 to 20 players. (So, the raid will scale from 12, 13, 14... to 20 players, that is, same as if it wasn't scaled).
· 40 man raids will scale from 20 to 40 players. (20, 21, 22... 40).
· Boss mechanics will still be the same, no changes.
· Spell damage will still be the same.
· Scaled HP = baseHp * (currentPlayers / maxPlayers).
· Scaled damage = baseDmg * ((currentPlayers / maxPlayers) + ((maxPlayers - currentPlayers) / 100)).
· Scaled mana = baseMana * ((currentPlayers / maxPlayers) + ((maxPlayers - currentPlayers) / 100)).

If people wants it, it could even be made fully optional (maybe a party wanna do a 40 man with less people, just for the challenge). For example, not scaling it if the raid leader has a specific item.

I have been already talking with lots of the current level 60 players, and everyone seems to agree with this change. However, we wanna hear more opinions. Please, when you comment, if possible, tell us your level and since when have you been playing here!

[Reachkid]

I like it. If possible, add an NPC at the beginning of the raid, that the raid leader could talk to, to set raid to dynamic scaling or not. (Similar to beginning of ICC, where you could turn off the buff for more challenge)

Also, if possible, consider decreasing loot drops for dynamic raids vs. full raid groups (Or increase drops for full raids =D). Might incentivise leaders to bring full raids, but not cancel if they can't get it. (ie: the raid isn't a wash if one or two don't show up, and the leaders can decide if the reduced manpower can still beat a non-scaled raid.)

Just my 2 cents.

[Tamamobae]

I think this is necessary. We are a private server after all and our population isn't the highest.

In Vanilla Wow it was already super hard to get 40 people together, it's borderline impossible here.

Doing the raids with the correct amount of people should give bonus loot though.

I have a lv 12 Dryad Hunter and I've been on Turtle-wow since December last year.

[Casanova]

I like the idea and if you plan to have an option to toggle the scalinh mode off for the purist will be great.

Like people say it was hard even in rerail to get all the people for raiding since if you miss only 5 people you were going to have a hard time. Classic is comming and we can expect to lose decent numbers in every bracket level. So i support the idea 100%

[Edo]

As someone who has been on this server from its start, i really appreciate the amount of work TurtleWow staff puts in to pleasantly surprise us players. This most recent surprise is especially welcomed, since as others have also mentioned, it is very difficult to assemble 40 raid ready players on a smaller server.

That being said, i do have some questions:

- Will the number of mobs in a pack remain the same (For example, dog packs before Magmadar could be hard to tackle without enough aoe in a smaller raid)

- Will the number of adds in a boss encounter be scaled down (Garr elementals, Majordomo guards, ...)

- Some bosses use Shield-like spells that needs to be dps-ed down fast as a part of the encounter mechanic (Majordomo for instance). I assume the damage absorbed wont be changed, but it could be an issue in smaller raids

-ZG and AQ20 will be especially tricky to scale down perfectly, with even less people to account for if certain mechanics remain the same (number of bats that Priestess Jeklik spawns)

Those are some potential issues i can think of at the moment. I can't wait to try out the new scaled raids, if and when you choose to roll them out, and i'm certain that players' feedback will help fix any problems that might arise.

[Pompa]

As someone who has been on this server from its start, i really appreciate the amount of work TurtleWow staff puts in to pleasantly surprise us players. This most recent surprise is especially welcomed, since as others have also mentioned, it is very difficult to assemble 40 raid ready players on a smaller server.

That being said, i do have some questions:

- Will the number of mobs in a pack remain the same (For example, dog packs before Magmadar could be hard to tackle without enough aoe in a smaller raid)

- Will the number of adds in a boss encounter be scaled down (Garr elementals, Majordomo guards, ...)

- Some bosses use Shield-like spells that needs to be dps-ed down fast as a part of the encounter mechanic (Majordomo for instance). I assume the damage absorbed wont be changed, but it could be an issue in smaller raids

-ZG and AQ20 will be especially tricky to scale down perfectly, with even less people to account for if certain mechanics remain the same (number of bats that Priestess Jeklik spawns)

Those are some potential issues i can think of at the moment. I can't wait to try out the new scaled raids, if and when you choose to roll them out, and i'm certain that players' feedback will help fix any problems that might arise.

Thanks for your feedback! The number of mobs will be the same, but with the values scaled down. Of course when we start getting more feedback we can adjust some more things.

Regarding Majordomo, don't worry, I believe the spell you mention is this one: https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=20619/ So, it will be fine. If you talk about this one, https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=20620/, this is the spell he uses to make himself invincible, since he is not the creature you need to kill in his encounter.

[Qixel]

I will always vote in favor of more options. Scaling seems interesting, and if it's enabled as an opt-in option, there's no reason not to have it other than the work required, which now seems to be a non-issue. <3

I would second the suggestion of perhaps increasing drops for larger raids to incentivize players to do them. Perhaps 1 item per 5 raid members (maybe a 20% chance at an extra item for each member past a division of 5?) would be a fair compromise? Of course, numbers could be tweaked as needed.

Engie
Level 60 Warrior
January '19

[Pompa]

I will always vote in favor of more options. Scaling seems interesting, and if it's enabled as an opt-in option, there's no reason not to have it other than the work required, which now seems to be a non-issue. <3

I would second the suggestion of perhaps increasing drops for larger raids to incentivize players to do them. Perhaps 1 item per 5 raid members (maybe a 20% chance at an extra item for each member past a division of 5?) would be a fair compromise? Of course, numbers could be tweaked as needed.

Engie
Level 60 Warrior
January '19

Actually the number of dropped items is not that big, for example in MC bosses usually drop 3/4 items. Maybe we could give Turtle Tokens per boss killed with the max number of players. :)

The amount of gold dropped is adjusted too, forgot to mention that.

[Cael]

I 100% support this. I would like to see this! I've always wanted to experience vanilla end game content, and this will even let someone like me who RPs more than plays the game, a chance to join a group.

[Qixel]

Actually the number of dropped items is not that big, for example in MC bosses usually drop 3/4 items. Maybe we could give Turtle Tokens per boss killed with the max number of players. :)

The amount of gold dropped is adjusted too, forgot to mention that.

Oh, I know, just figured making drops based on the number of people in the raid would be a solid compromise. :3 Turtle Tokens is a fairly solid idea, too. :3

[Bigpoop]

Sounds good... I like it!

[Lefaux]

I'd need to jump into this to actually see how it works.

Some things from the top of my head that I could think of could be an issue with smaller raids.
- Decursing on Chromaggus
- Skeletons on Nefarian
- Healers on Patchwerk (depending on whether Hateful Strike counts as spell or not)

I sense balance issues between melee and spell damage on bosses.
I guess you scale down the melee damage to account for less healers in a smaller raid.
If spell damage remains the same and a boss is spell heavy those fewer healers will run oom, making the encounter harder for a smaller raid.
Another thing that comes to mind is mind-controlling bosses. On a raid half the size the problem grows twice as big.

I really love the effort that's put into making raiding on our low-pop server more appealing and I don't want to shoot down the idea at all.
I just want to raise awareness about said topics.

[Sinrek]

I really love the effort that's put into making raiding on our low-pop server more appealing and I don't want to shoot down the idea at all.
I just want to raise awareness about said topics.

Same here. If everything will be in check for scaling down of these raids then I'm all up for the idea! Sounds good.

[Realnicolbolas]

its an interesting concept but it seems abusable.
as in:
>do 12 man ZG
>get full 20 man ZG loot
it seems like a quick and easy way to get lots of loot

[Badling]

Smultron here, got a few hours as 60 now!

Yes please make this a thing, sounds like it could be alot of fun! since we can usualy pull together 10-15 people right now!

making it optional sure why not, might be nice for anyone who only wants the "real" experience?

Thanks for all the hard work, best server ever!