Slow & Steady

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Sinrek
Posts: 788

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Sinrek » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:48 am

These were designed to be easier.
satisfied_turtle Slowly turtling my way up.

Niakr1s
Posts: 1

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Niakr1s » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:02 pm

I keep dying after teleport to Mirage Raceway and losing my 5% exp each time D:

Alexsage
Posts: 10

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Alexsage » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:05 pm

You may want to provide more details on that one Niakr1s so Torta can fix it.
AlexSage - Human Warrior
Stormrunner - Tauren Shaman

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Dicer
Posts: 2

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Dicer » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:18 am

I have a gripe with the 5%... I don't mind a hit if I screw up, but taking a 5% loss in group when I did nothing to cause it, No thanks. And before the "choose groups more carefully" replies come in, We have a small community, and beggars can't always be choosers. I also am not a fan of leveling from 1-50 without it then it just sprung up on me. Also the fact you cannot do Dark Iron Legacy without the hit is also not amazing. just my .02 on the matter...and if I have to I'll just drop HC mode after the time I put into it.

Alexsage
Posts: 10

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Alexsage » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:53 pm

I can see where you're coming from but group content also provides normal exp which should make up for a 5% loss unless it's a regular thing in which case well someone in the group needs help. I agree it would be nice if they could find a way of making quests like Dark Iron Legacy not hurt you. You can also play it extremely safe and do stuff below your level as quests still give full exp. There options or of course simply don't do hardcore?
AlexSage - Human Warrior
Stormrunner - Tauren Shaman

Raistlin
Posts: 2

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Raistlin » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:02 am

I kind of feel the target for current HC mode players has been moved here. I don't mind the XP death penalty on death, though perhaps a better mechanic would have been to make the penalty less on a first death then increase it on each additional death that occurs within a certain time frame, kind of like how dieing frequently now increases how much time a player has to wait to revive again. I'm guessing that the reduced rested gain from tents could be offset with more tents? Haven't seen that explained yet.

I feel that you'll miss a lot of people who'd try hardcore mode out by changing the threshold to toggle HC mode from lvl 10 to 1. New players will often not know about all the features of the server and won't know this is available until after having played for a few hours so then if they care to go HC mode they'll have to reroll.

I did just that with 2 characters who are now mid/upper lvl 30's with a third character that is lvl 39. The lvl 40 HC mode rewards were pretty desirable before while now they don't seem very rewarding at all. There were a few fun items from earlier reward thresholds that new players won't ever have a chance to receive either.

I'm wondering if I'm missing something here and I don't want to jump to conclusions, but what was the reason for these changes? Was there any request for input on this before deciding on making changes?

Pfwg
Posts: 107

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Pfwg » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:43 am

Making 0.5 rates also apply to dungeons and removing the xp loss on death inside dungeons would be a good change.

Currently, the penalties dissuade people from doing dungeons and attempting elite quests, which was supposed to be part of the allure of hardcore mode in the first place. Dying in the open world is usually your own fault, but death in dungeons is much less likely to be your own fault. Being punished for engaging with the community rather than solo questing and grinding to 60 doesn't sound like a good model for an MMO.

While I agree that these new penalties can be avoided by simply not grouping with other players or doing dungeons, that seems against the spirit of what hardcore mode is supposed to be about.



On a separate note, 5% xp loss on death really sucks when you can be killed by things that literally aren't meant to kill you, for example dying from being summoned by a warlock, dying from the Thousand Needles teleporter etc. Hell, you can even die just by running over terrain the wrong way on a mount.

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Torta
Posts: 739

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Torta » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:28 pm

Dicer wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:18 am
I have a gripe with the 5%... I don't mind a hit if I screw up, but taking a 5% loss in group when I did nothing to cause it, No thanks. And before the "choose groups more carefully" replies come in, We have a small community, and beggars can't always be choosers. I also am not a fan of leveling from 1-50 without it then it just sprung up on me. Also the fact you cannot do Dark Iron Legacy without the hit is also not amazing. just my .02 on the matter...and if I have to I'll just drop HC mode after the time I put into it.
I'm adding this quest and few other cases as exceptions on the next update.

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Torta
Posts: 739

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Torta » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:30 pm

Raistlin wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:02 am
I'm wondering if I'm missing something here and I don't want to jump to conclusions, but what was the reason for these changes? Was there any request for input on this before deciding on making changes?
Hardcore Mode was not Hardcore at all. Players still could use rested XP from tents and level on x1 instead of going through hardcore adventure. We didn't want to close an important and fun social interaction such as "Tent Party" for Hardcore players so I had to come up with a compromise.

Anderyu
Posts: 17

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Anderyu » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:59 am

Just wanted to say that I like the exp loss on death. Its a fair negative to death while on 'hard mode'. Prior to this, the only hard part of hardmode was 0.5x rates on mob kills only, and this was circumvent-able via tent parties.

It feels so far like it should be possible to get from 1-60 on Hardmode without ever entering a dungeon if you do all of the quests, and I've not used Tent Party to get 1x rates (I just realized this is what these tent parties were for.)

High risk, High reward. Not that people should be bribed to play a 'harder' version of the game, but should be doing it for the fun of it. Torta is basically paying us $30-50 to play his game on hard mode.
Deepblue/Deeperblue

Yuzu
Posts: 4

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Yuzu » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:42 pm

Hello, I do not agree with these changes in the death penalty, the role server and hard core mode lost the fun because you can no longer risk doing elite or difficult missions alone, because it is well known that there are few people in the server, you are on a map leveling alone, you get tired of requesting a group in the general chat and nobody writes you, so to level up they recommend doing low-level missions, what's funny about that? In addition to erasing the previous rewards that I had already obtained, such as Illusion: Blood Elf, I think I will take a break from this server for now.

Myroku
Posts: 1

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Myroku » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:50 pm

Good morning, death penalty does not seem right to me, one of the most exciting things is to dedicate effort to doing difficult missions and after a lot of effort to complete them and receive your well-deserved reward, something that is definitely not possible because a mission is not Enough to recover from the 5% penalty and that discourages us from continuing to play. Many say that you deactivate the hard core mode if you don't like it but instead of deactivating the hard core mode I would prefer to change servers because the ones I like the most about turtle wow is that they reward you every 10 levels for your efforts, but instead the penalty of 5% what it does is get frustrated
PS: I use translate.google.co.ve. sorry if something is not understood xD

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Rhaco
Posts: 42

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Rhaco » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:18 pm

Raistlin wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:02 am
I feel that you'll miss a lot of people who'd try hardcore mode out by changing the threshold to toggle HC mode from lvl 10 to 1. New players will often not know about all the features of the server and won't know this is available until after having played for a few hours so then if they care to go HC mode they'll have to reroll.
Raistlin, I had the same thought and proposed a starting quest from Speedy (or any other NPC that is suitable, but I would hope everyone wonders about the free turtle in their backpack and clicks the box once) to bring attention to Hardmode and actively prompt a yes/no choice about it.
[H] Sachatamia / Rhaco / Pollywog

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Torta
Posts: 739

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Torta » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:30 am

Yuzu wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:42 pm
In addition to erasing the previous rewards that I had already obtained, such as Illusion: Blood Elf, I think I will take a break from this server for now.
Blood / High Elf illusions have been removed because we're getting closer to the introduction of the real High Elf race. However, you won't lose this item if already have it. If you lost item due some server error or human mistake, please fill up a ticket and we'll restore it for you :)

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Torta
Posts: 739

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Torta » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:33 am

It's possible to lower XP penalties if the general reception isn't good. We won't rush with this decision, still gathering feedback.

Anderyu
Posts: 17

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Anderyu » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:17 am

Maybe we need to have a “slow” or “turtle” mode that has the same openworld-only mob-kill-only reduced exp of 50%, and a “hard” mode that does include exp loss and such, with different rewards.

My opinion is that there is nothing inherently hard about a slight exp reduction to one very specific aspect of exp gains. It just lets me enjoy all of the quests.

Hardmodes on other games reduce your stats, increase the badguys stats, gives exp/resource loss for death, perma-death. Makes the game more challenging, not more grindy.
Deepblue/Deeperblue

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Jam
Posts: 17
Location: Seville, FL

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Jam » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:51 pm

I think the death penalty and rewards update is great! As Torta stated, hardcore initially wasn't hardcore at all. While I'd be all for even more difficult avenues to play, what has been implemented increases the risk and incentive to play well and also spreads the rewards across all levels more consistently. If they decided to implement a turtle mode, to slow experience but not add the risk of death, I think the rewards for that mode should be minimal, if existent at all. These are all optional modes. If you think the risk is too great, toss the glyph.
"The reason most people do not recognize an opportunity when they meet it is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like Hard Work."

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Torta
Posts: 739

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Torta » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:56 pm

Anderyu wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:17 am
Maybe we need to have a “slow” or “turtle” mode that has the same openworld-only mob-kill-only reduced exp of 50%, and a “hard” mode that does include exp loss and such, with different rewards.

My opinion is that there is nothing inherently hard about a slight exp reduction to one very specific aspect of exp gains. It just lets me enjoy all of the quests.

Hardmodes on other games reduce your stats, increase the badguys stats, gives exp/resource loss for death, perma-death. Makes the game more challenging, not more grindy.
Sorry but I find it's very confusing to have multiply hardcore modes, not worth time implementing. For a slower mode you can get "Glyph of Exhaustion" tho :)

Anderyu
Posts: 17

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Anderyu » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:46 pm

Thanks Torta, I did not know of that other glyph. I have to agree with Jam in that these changes make hardmode hard, imposing a bit of challenge. Love the server and keep up all the good work.
Deepblue/Deeperblue

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Supremorie
Posts: 10

Re: Hardcore Mode & Rewards

Post by Supremorie » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:21 pm

To clarify, if I no longer want to play hard mode on a character that I had enabled hardmode on before the changes, can I delete the glyph? Or am I stuck forever?
Yaelira Oakheart | Sentinel Lyshaera Amberglave | Narai Blackscribe
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