Armored Azure Drake and other dragons...

[Torta]

Here's a question: How hard would it be to institute a custom model as a mount into Turtle? Rigged and all?

Pretty hard. We do not have a modeler on the team. Finding a 3D modeler is easy, but finding someone who can work with ancient formats from 2004 is nearly impossible. Everyone who tried just got too frustrated and demotivated over convertation issues they had to face.

[Furinkazan]

You can't link to your own database and say it's lore friendly, unless you can point to it I see nothing in actual WoW lore that these existed (and it probably would have been a later retail expansion anyway). The only trace I see of these existing is a secret level in Diablo III, so no, it's not lore friendly, it's a cash grab and just as immersion breaking if not significantly more so than the Armored Azure Drake.

I'll give you the first and the last warning about your behavior. I'm not being rude to anyone, nor am I'm not your enemy. You have to hold your conversation with staff and other players in a civil way. So far your every message on this forum has a mocking fleur, it's enough.

Please visit our website and read about our custom expansion called Mysteries of Azeroth, which is basically, yet another branch of Azeroth's history, as we are envisioning and writing it: https://turtle-wow.org/#/home As long as there's a reasonable and logical explanation for the existence of those clouds, it's part of MoA lore.

Once we have a city of Dalaran in-game, there'll be little lovely cloud familiars here and there :)

We do consider removal of the mounts from the shop, simply because they stand out too much graphically, but familiars will stay.

I have intentionally avoided insulting you and have plainly pointed out what you're doing. I made a HC character just for that Drake. I busted my ass to get to 60 and finally got it and then I couldn't equip it. Then I busted my ass to make the gold to be able to ride it. Then I had it for an entire week before you guys rug pulled it while claiming to take player feedback but not even holding a straw poll or the like. Now you want to assert that a smiling cartoon cloud is less immersion breaking than a drake and threaten me to boot. I see how this is going to be, I'll let myself out.

He's not alone in this regard, there are players that did the challenge solely for the reward (and I suspect non-hc that has payed a pretty sum for it as well) and completing the arduous journey to 60 without dying is a lot of work, time, patience and nerves. To suddenly just see the reward go, because of "immersion" or "too big" feels like a slap to the face and if adjustments are needed like downsizing then so be it. I don't know about you, but riding a dragon in a fantasy game is really cool, even if its stuck on the ground. Surely the dev team can cook up a story about a dragon companion, like you did for the cloud.

I whole heartily agree with Ramue and many others. Being able to take away someone's achievement is not cool. straight up.

Like me and many others, coming to the turtle wow homepage and discovering the hardcore mode and seeing how epic that drake looked alone made me want to attempt the challenge. Will I obtain it? who knows? But now I can never obtain it and it kind of saddens me. Part of me as a player would never even attempt this challenge to begin with. The drake symbolizes something bigger than just a mount. Its legit a symbol and badass one of an achievement that should merit a reward as big as that one. The horse doesn't even compare. Please for the love of the community. listen to us.

This^ +++

[Asagort]

I saw you are still collecting feedbacks and ideas.
Id like to give my opinion for the swift dawnsaber again, as it seems it got quite a few votes on discord yesterday evening.
I got told it is in the store though, so its more like asking if its a possible idea/solution. As someone asked over there yesterday, would it be possible to eventually put that mount as a reward for HC players, since it seems (apparently, you guys probably know better) there are very very few that got bought before.

To me, HC reward shall be something unique, and theres nothing better than a mount that was never available for players to show off. I saw spectral horses and wolves suggested before but hey… many have played cataclysm. Seen that over and over again. Whats the saying? Been there, done that.
Nothing hardcore and unique in a mount that was hugely common in retail wow

[Asagort]

Also, for the record immortal doesnt necessarily have to do with undeads and their versions of mounts lol. In ancient Greek Gods were immortal. I personally have never seen any representation of them looking like undeads or ghouls. They were just badass looking. Dont focus yourself on undead appearance, Admins. Just choose something legendary and rewarding for your true hardcore players

[Mac]

I agree that the current implementation of the dragon mount is goofy looking. It's weird seeing dragons just running around not using their wings. Changing that mount is a good idea. And in the defense of the cloud, while it is a silly little mount, at least it actually hovers above the ground instead of dragging its cloud butt across the dirt. It's silly in a cute way whereas the dragon mount is goofy in a dumb way.

Which brings me to my main point: my suggestion is that you should add flying mounts to the game, but not the kind of flying mounts that TBC had where you can just soar up into the sky. Instead, flying mounts would have a permanent levitation effect while mounted on them, essentially being hover mounts rather than flying mounts. This would make mounts like armored azure drake actually flap their wings, addressing the issue from the original post where the mount just kind of looks goofy running around, without adding anything truly game-breaking.

Adding this would allow you to bring in a bunch of new mounts to the game that would look nice and also have a decent function attached to them. The training for flying mounts could require a bunch of gold (possibly on top of epic training) and/or a faction grind, and then you could add faction grinds to obtain cool flying mounts like dragons (as in, you would have to grind out faction with the red dragons to get them to trust you to the point where they'll let you fly on their backs).

[Loopybat]

I would prefer that the dragon be allowed to stay, perhaps as a choice. The amount of future dragons would be lowered, while allowing people to still have a dragon.

[Adios]

I would suggest changing the dragon for
This is the:
Great Thunder Dragon Turtle

This is an unused look. This appearance has never been available on a player mount.

Vote for that by both hands! I think it's a perfect mount for a Immortal players. First, it looks great - cool, massive, brutal and with extra accesories, fit for a dudes who beat such a hard challenge. Second, it's a turtle - server mascot . Third, it's a fully lore-friendly, even more than fel horses, ghost animals and other examples posted here (a truly unique creatures - give them to all Immortals is like giving them Invincibles); after all, it's logical - if there is common turtles on Azeroth why should't be a big drake turtles?
I think that's a great choice :)

My vote and love goes to the dragon turtle, great non-generic look and obvious reference, fits all races

[Hannigan]

I dont mind taking that ugly drake away. It looks goofy. I dont care what other mount it is replaced with either. What I would care about is this:

I have 3 hc toons at 60 and obviously none of them have nearly enough gold to afford epic riding skill. I played them for the challenge, not because I want to play endgame with them. As soon as they hit 60, they're basically just providing tents for the next toon. None of them can ever ride the drake or whatever replacement you come up with. Couldnt you make the hc reward mount work like the turtle does? Make it useable without epic riding skill at the according 60% speed increase and 100% speed increase with epic riding. Give me a hc reward mount that I can actually ever use when I ride from one town to another to place some tents.

tl;dr: Make hc reward mount work like turtle, where speed scales with riding skill please.

[Furinkazan]

I dont mind taking that ugly drake away. It looks goofy. I dont care what other mount it is replaced with either. What I would care about is this:
...

Dude...
if you don't care about all of this, then go make a new post with your suggestion over at the suggestions section.

[Magina]

I dont mind taking that ugly drake away. It looks goofy. I dont care what other mount it is replaced with either. What I would care about is this:

I have 3 hc toons at 60 and obviously none of them have nearly enough gold to afford epic riding skill. I played them for the challenge, not because I want to play endgame with them. As soon as they hit 60, they're basically just providing tents for the next toon. None of them can ever ride the drake or whatever replacement you come up with. Couldnt you make the hc reward mount work like the turtle does? Make it useable without epic riding skill at the according 60% speed increase and 100% speed increase with epic riding. Give me a hc reward mount that I can actually ever use when I ride from one town to another to place some tents.

tl;dr: Make hc reward mount work like turtle, where speed scales with riding skill please.

I’m in the same boat with my 2 immortals. I play hc not for the rewards but because I love the game mode, but will admit that when my first toon hit 60, it was a pretty big “womp womp” moment to discover that I couldn’t even use the dragon.

As for the mount, to be entirely honest I think the devs mishandled this situation, and behaved rather childishly when people didn’t react to the horse the way they expected.

[Mac]

I dont mind taking that ugly drake away. It looks goofy. I dont care what other mount it is replaced with either. What I would care about is this:

I have 3 hc toons at 60 and obviously none of them have nearly enough gold to afford epic riding skill. I played them for the challenge, not because I want to play endgame with them. As soon as they hit 60, they're basically just providing tents for the next toon. None of them can ever ride the drake or whatever replacement you come up with. Couldnt you make the hc reward mount work like the turtle does? Make it useable without epic riding skill at the according 60% speed increase and 100% speed increase with epic riding. Give me a hc reward mount that I can actually ever use when I ride from one town to another to place some tents.

tl;dr: Make hc reward mount work like turtle, where speed scales with riding skill please.

This is a good suggestion.

[Asagort]

It is indeed

[Rakura]

No horse mounts. That's just laziness. Look you need to amend your first post with actual breakdowns of what can and cannot be done. DOn't be vague about it either. From there we can adjust our suggestions and move on else all you are doing is proving us right that you just didn't this post for prosperity and you were going with you "gut" the whole time. Also it will quell the meme responses too.

[Mozaiczny]

Mimirions Head or Invicible?

[Rokra]

Please consider community feedback.
I love playing here and so do the rest of us.
But I have to say the replacement mount is a huge disappointment.
I understand the drake model being a bit off in a vanilla world, but there are far more aesthetic-breaking models in the donation shop that the community seems to be accepting.
The horse model also looks hideous on bigger character models such as Taurens.
Seems really unfair and not motivating.
Again, I love all the work you are putting in this project and the general direction of the team is great. This decision on the HC reward is just not.
I haven't heard of any HC player who is actually happy about the Horse mount reward.

[Asagort]

Mimirions Head or Invicible?

Whats more classic style and lore friendly than a robotic head randomly levitating around the world

[Magina]

It's no less lore friendly than the clouds.

[Fizzeek]

My vote is anything other than a horse.

Something Turtle-y, dragony or spectral would be pretty cool.

[Faustorgo]

I would suggest changing the dragon for
This is the:
Great Thunder Dragon Turtle

This is an unused look. This appearance has never been available on a player mount.

Vote for that by both hands! I think it's a perfect mount for a Immortal players. First, it looks great - cool, massive, brutal and with extra accesories, fit for a dudes who beat such a hard challenge. Second, it's a turtle - server mascot . Third, it's a fully lore-friendly, even more than fel horses, ghost animals and other examples posted here (a truly unique creatures - give them to all Immortals is like giving them Invincibles); after all, it's logical - if there is common turtles on Azeroth why should't be a big drake turtles?
I think that's a great choice :)

My vote and love goes to the dragon turtle, great non-generic look and obvious reference, fits all races

By far the best, please @torta not the awfull steed, the idea of have a big turtle champions goes with the server and Realm name, please
do not miss this great opportunity to make this server even Greater!

[Purplenurple]

I think it's great, way better than the dragon and fitting the title

[Redsalamando]

Ok but does anyone else find it a little weird that whatever Not Horse mount it will possibly be, it will still keep the "Requires 150 Riding" despite the fact that mounts scaling to your training technology is present in the game?
The mount feels more like a "Ok you've played your Immortal character long enough to get Epic Riding, NOW here's your reward :)" instead of an immediate reward you have access to and were hyped up to hit 60 for. To most of the Immortal playerbase, you just have a title to show for it.
I can understand not wanting to see 5 drakes in the center of each major city and artificially holding back on the grandness of the mount behind a 1K paywall, but now that it's being downgraded to something more manageable to keep in a city, shouldn't it now be actually usable to those who earned it?

[Torta]

The HC mount riding requirement will most likely be removed on the next server update :) Those who couldn't add the mount to their collection due to not having enough gold will be able to place it in their spellbooks.

[Bainville]

I get that some people want "lore accurate" mount or remove "lore inaccurate mounts" off the in-game shop but let's be real : there are already immersion breaking mounts in the game and no one bats an eye over them. For example : You're a human paladin riding Rivendare's deathcharger in Stormwind.

On the opic of the new mount here are my suggestions :

- Remove the riding requirement and make it scale like the turtle and donation mounts.

- There is a vocal minority who seems pissed off to loose the azure drake : Create a custom quest that allow them to exchange the azure drake for the new mount if they want to, without forcing them to have their drake deleted. Just like blizzard did when introducing revamped 100% speed mounts in vanilla. It would be a 1 time quest only, and only azure drake to new mount, not the other way around.

- NO mounts with wings or flying device (Engineering mounts, mimiron's head, invincible). Having something with wings but cannot fly would just look silly and weird.

- NO HD models, it would stands out too much and be weird.

- Do a poll on discord/forum with the suggestion that fits the criteria and let's people vote for their favorite.

----

On a personal note, i would love to see the Wooly Rhino introduced as the new HC mount. It's big, it stands out but not too much,it's not lore breaking for alliance nor horde, it's a unique model and a ground mount.

https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=5406 ... hite-rhino

[Qvberzelt]

The Bronze Stalker

Do you still want a drake without wing ?
Hehehe~
What a good comprise, isn't ?
...
Again this suggestion ? Yes I am sorry if it feels the same thing but I'll be more pertinent.

• Few words:

After the announcement, we're mostly disappointed about this new horse, it isn't a bad mount but not good for HC. I my opinion why are you an immortal in lore (on twow, so not 100% Blizzard) with a dead horse with you ? Even if it's a ghosly/spectral horse, it's the same thing to me. It doesn't fit on many races, about design and lore, even if we try to tweak the lore, it feels so weird for many of us and not only Hardcore players.
I am still suggesting my Bronze Stalker, but with a more serious details and trying to convince you, staff and players.

Still we can see many players who wants a dragonturtle from MoP, it's cool but really not for HC, maybe for Slow & Steader instead of this giant plainstrider, it's just an idea for S&S, but NOT for HC. We don't want a dragonturtle, what's the point on your Immortality ? Nothing, nothing at all, but still the design is pretty badass, can't deny it.

• Looking at Staffs answers:

Hey there!

We're very thankful for all the suggestions, we've looked at all of them and sadly had to exclude any models that are not compatible with the Vanilla client. We took into consideration that a mount has to stand out but be fit to all possible races and thus the outstanding looking charger was picked.

The Mysterious Stranger had their lore changed to represent this decision, as well as potentially play a role in future ideas. This ethereal being comes from the Tower of Karazhan, an equally mysterious place as the stranger himself. Rumored to travel between dimensions, collecting souls of those not strong enough to complete the challenge for his own nefarious purposes.

For those worthy enough to survive his guiles and whims, they are rewarded with a horse of Karazhan, the place in which he emerged to stalk the lands for new eager adventurers.

I got it, we got it. VanillaEngine is something special about retroporting something on it, I read before you released the Horse, you'll look for something before WOLTK, and still not breaking immersion on twow-vanillawow. But I must to asnwer it : What do you think about my first replay for this model, Warpstalker ? Original topic

Warning, very long spoiler, it's the original topic if you're too lazy to click on it, hehe.

S

o, this is my second choice, by at least it's now my favorite: Warpstalker.

Yes, it's from TBC, but it can perfectly feet on Vanilla for some reasons, if TWoW's Staff are intrigued with it, it's possible to take the same Lore from this specie, and already put in Vanilla, for many reasons, like orcs.

Remember about red dragonflight in trouble with the (Dark) Horde, in Warcraft 2 ? Initialy, the Blackrock clan have many sub-clan, as Blacktooth Grin for assassination and spy's stuff; here, i am talking about another sub-clan, Dragonmaw, as you can see or think about them, they're already here in-game, Wetlands (Grim'batol, too). Well they're trying to tame many dragons and drakes, don't forget it, they're under the command of the Warchief Rend Blackhand. Rend Blackhand "serves" Nefarian aswell, Nefarian is one of the most popular vilain in Vanilla, he's a black wyrm but also a great scientist.

I am not gonna lie, I don't like Cataclysm but we saw many good things about his great works, reviving Onyxia is a thing too, but even at Vanilla, he creates a weird chromatic dragonflight (Dunno why it's a Flight because no one can speak for them, they're just beasts). Nefarian is trying to stole or capture breeder for more eggs, from every Flights, so why not a failed experience ? It happens, as a great scientist he's, in the beginning, he failed.

Then, the Black Dragonflight do many thing at this era, what about Nozdormu's one ? Someone from the Bronze dragonflight can be involved to save some weird eggs from their flight or some (corrupted) bronze dragonsworn evolved into dragonspawn en then devolved into a quadriped creature and looks like a Warpstalker.
Beside it, at the end, Nozdormu himself can show up in front of you, blessing us with Immortality, he can take us in pity for 60th level of labor, like Herakles, a mortal becomes god.

Why he'll do something like that ? We're doing CoT:Black Morass at lvl60, guys, the Bronze Dragonflight do not trust any mortal, in fact its the most reclusive flight "We, Bronze, do not interferate with mortals", unless you're close to them as a Dragonsworn. By the way, the first druid as tauren, and Cenarius second apprentice is blessed by immortality, Xarantaur the Witness.

This is can be epic, your immortality is epic, claim egg from a twisted dragonspawn or failed dragonsworn, Nozdormu as witness rewarding you with immortality, unable to fix you with your own soul because she's lost in the Twisted Nether.
Maybe this Soul, your soul is used to as component for this weird experience ? You're linked with this "creature" ? A title and a mount, a blessing and your soul mate.

Here we are, I already saw it, to ride a Warp Stalker in Pserv at Woltk, I know it's not the same thing at Vanilla, but still very fun to ride it. Already done the experience.


I really hope you'll like my idea.

Ressources:
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=502 ... rp-stalker
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=20906/phase ... odelviewer (Might to be Revamped/Recolored if chosen, of course)

Another thing, I wasn't aware about the Mysterious Stranger, his design is particular but now I understand why he's special, he's an ethereal like from TBC ? For now I'll assume it's but ok good to know, I like it. And you, Jamey, you're telling us he'll play a role in some future quest. So that's I wanted: Content & Lore about your characters.
Then about a NPC related to his Challenge, a special quest when you reach this lvl60 should be awesome, isn't ? By the way, we can't deny one thing about Karazhan, it's a cursed nexus point about ley-lines, Malygos saw Medivh doing shit with that, he tooks them to the Nexus : "Yo mortal what are you doing with the Arcane ?" Karazhan is fucked up, it's a Gate, not like Dark portal, with the unique prismatic dragon in WoW, not chromatic not a netherdragon but yes a prismatic's one he's unique, accord ding TBC's stuff if Twow like it, he's from another world/dimension, maybe the mysterious stranger is him ? in mortal shape, usual dragon's trick.

• My idea, my quest, many choices flavourful:

Origin of the mount is an Nefarian's creature, already explained on my preview topic and link at "Original topic", scroll-up a litte if you want more. A quest to finished this labor, this mode...I am wondering if we can have flaveourful choices (not matter) at the end, like with Sayge from the DMF (Lovely Buffs..mmmh), many choice, with a special whisper/emote in DM or any item, like with Sayge again, and well a tiny minor buff a silly one but "Hey look at my title, my tabard, my mount(Bronzestalke's one hehe i hope) and my buff, i am someone else, something else..."

I am really in for Karazhan & Bronze stuff for this Immortality. But with Mysterious Stranger's origin, why not more about him with this Immortality ? On my preview topic, I suggested someone like Noz from Bronze'flight. What if this creature is related as an curious "animal totemic", warp stalker is designed as a lizard, you get it ? Ok, prepare yourself, I'll put some IRL stuff but I promise it's cool : If we look better this creature can "looks like" an Ouroboros, yeah but I am not talking about of this evil old god creature in AQ40 (Ouro), but about symbolic's stuff, i had a very good feeling and inspiration with that.

"The ouroboros or uroboros (/ˌjʊərəˈbɒrəs/[2]) is an ancient symbol depicting a serpent or dragon[3] eating its own tail."
"The ouroboros is often interpreted as a symbol for eternal cyclic renewal or a cycle of life, death, and rebirth; the snake’s skin-sloughing symbolizes the transmigration of souls."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros
It's a mythologic creature, exactly, but IRL a specie exist similar to it : Cordylus Cataphractus, you'll love this, he's so cute and very protected, very rare, he's <Still Alive>, litteraly, protect it at any cost, like netherdrake at TBC, protected ! Protect this poor creature, an Ethereal already worked with (fel)orcs working with Nefarian for them, why not those cutie-badasse lizard ? It's a neutral choice about major factions, by the way.

Lmao, sorry if I was so deep with it. I am very deepful about lore's stuff if we want to talk about immersive stuff, and TurtleWoW want to be an RP server, so I am very concerned by those "visuals".

Please, tell me what do you think about it.

[Stoogeville]

Here's a question: How hard would it be to institute a custom model as a mount into Turtle? Rigged and all?

Pretty hard. We do not have a modeler on the team. Finding a 3D modeler is easy, but finding someone who can work with ancient formats from 2004 is nearly impossible. Everyone who tried just got too frustrated and demotivated over convertation issues they had to face.

Where have you looked? I'm guessing you've tried the Noggit discord, and the community itself - but what about more obscure places, like the HIVE Workshop, or archaic modding sites like Moddb? Or broader-reaching places, like WoW subreddits, or the forums of popular sites for WoW tools and databases? I know this is probably saying the obvious, but there would have to be a few places unchecked.

[Jamey]

Here's a question: How hard would it be to institute a custom model as a mount into Turtle? Rigged and all?

Pretty hard. We do not have a modeler on the team. Finding a 3D modeler is easy, but finding someone who can work with ancient formats from 2004 is nearly impossible. Everyone who tried just got too frustrated and demotivated over convertation issues they had to face.

Where have you looked? I'm guessing you've tried the Noggit discord, and the community itself - but what about more obscure places, like the HIVE Workshop, or archaic modding sites like Moddb? Or broader-reaching places, like WoW subreddits, or the forums of popular sites for WoW tools and databases? I know this is probably saying the obvious, but there would have to be a few places unchecked.

In more places than anyone could phantom. The reality is that while the emulation and mod-community are very active in later expansions, most notably Wrath of the Lich King, this is untrue for Vanilla. The client has undergone a lot of changes between these two versions of the game and thus a lot of tools that are public are simply useless to us. Meaning we have to develop them ourselves or modify them to fit our needs and even this is sometimes not feasible. We're no short in the department of talent for modeling but if you combine this requirement with knowledge of Vanilla game formats you start to get into a very niche speciality.

Regardless, we appreciate your feedback and your willingness to think alongside us.

[Faustorgo]

The Bronze Stalker

Do you still want a drake without wing ?
Hehehe~
What a good comprise, isn't ?
...
Again this suggestion ? Yes I am sorry if it feels the same thing but I'll be more pertinent.

• Few words:

After the announcement, we're mostly disappointed about this new horse, it isn't a bad mount but not good for HC. I my opinion why are you an immortal in lore (on twow, so not 100% Blizzard) with a dead horse with you ? Even if it's a ghosly/spectral horse, it's the same thing to me. It doesn't fit on many races, about design and lore, even if we try to tweak the lore, it feels so weird for many of us and not only Hardcore players.
I am still suggesting my Bronze Stalker, but with a more serious details and trying to convince you, staff and players.

Still we can see many players who wants a dragonturtle from MoP, it's cool but really not for HC, maybe for Slow & Steader instead of this giant plainstrider, it's just an idea for S&S, but NOT for HC. We don't want a dragonturtle, what's the point on your Immortality ? Nothing, nothing at all, but still the design is pretty badass, can't deny it.

• Looking at Staffs answers:

Hey there!

We're very thankful for all the suggestions, we've looked at all of them and sadly had to exclude any models that are not compatible with the Vanilla client. We took into consideration that a mount has to stand out but be fit to all possible races and thus the outstanding looking charger was picked.

The Mysterious Stranger had their lore changed to represent this decision, as well as potentially play a role in future ideas. This ethereal being comes from the Tower of Karazhan, an equally mysterious place as the stranger himself. Rumored to travel between dimensions, collecting souls of those not strong enough to complete the challenge for his own nefarious purposes.

For those worthy enough to survive his guiles and whims, they are rewarded with a horse of Karazhan, the place in which he emerged to stalk the lands for new eager adventurers.

I got it, we got it. VanillaEngine is something special about retroporting something on it, I read before you released the Horse, you'll look for something before WOLTK, and still not breaking immersion on twow-vanillawow. But I must to asnwer it : What do you think about my first replay for this model, Warpstalker ? Original topic

Warning, very long spoiler, it's the original topic if you're too lazy to click on it, hehe.

S

o, this is my second choice, by at least it's now my favorite: Warpstalker.

Yes, it's from TBC, but it can perfectly feet on Vanilla for some reasons, if TWoW's Staff are intrigued with it, it's possible to take the same Lore from this specie, and already put in Vanilla, for many reasons, like orcs.

Remember about red dragonflight in trouble with the (Dark) Horde, in Warcraft 2 ? Initialy, the Blackrock clan have many sub-clan, as Blacktooth Grin for assassination and spy's stuff; here, i am talking about another sub-clan, Dragonmaw, as you can see or think about them, they're already here in-game, Wetlands (Grim'batol, too). Well they're trying to tame many dragons and drakes, don't forget it, they're under the command of the Warchief Rend Blackhand. Rend Blackhand "serves" Nefarian aswell, Nefarian is one of the most popular vilain in Vanilla, he's a black wyrm but also a great scientist.

I am not gonna lie, I don't like Cataclysm but we saw many good things about his great works, reviving Onyxia is a thing too, but even at Vanilla, he creates a weird chromatic dragonflight (Dunno why it's a Flight because no one can speak for them, they're just beasts). Nefarian is trying to stole or capture breeder for more eggs, from every Flights, so why not a failed experience ? It happens, as a great scientist he's, in the beginning, he failed.

Then, the Black Dragonflight do many thing at this era, what about Nozdormu's one ? Someone from the Bronze dragonflight can be involved to save some weird eggs from their flight or some (corrupted) bronze dragonsworn evolved into dragonspawn en then devolved into a quadriped creature and looks like a Warpstalker.
Beside it, at the end, Nozdormu himself can show up in front of you, blessing us with Immortality, he can take us in pity for 60th level of labor, like Herakles, a mortal becomes god.

Why he'll do something like that ? We're doing CoT:Black Morass at lvl60, guys, the Bronze Dragonflight do not trust any mortal, in fact its the most reclusive flight "We, Bronze, do not interferate with mortals", unless you're close to them as a Dragonsworn. By the way, the first druid as tauren, and Cenarius second apprentice is blessed by immortality, Xarantaur the Witness.

This is can be epic, your immortality is epic, claim egg from a twisted dragonspawn or failed dragonsworn, Nozdormu as witness rewarding you with immortality, unable to fix you with your own soul because she's lost in the Twisted Nether.
Maybe this Soul, your soul is used to as component for this weird experience ? You're linked with this "creature" ? A title and a mount, a blessing and your soul mate.

Here we are, I already saw it, to ride a Warp Stalker in Pserv at Woltk, I know it's not the same thing at Vanilla, but still very fun to ride it. Already done the experience.


I really hope you'll like my idea.

Ressources:
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=502 ... rp-stalker
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=20906/phase ... odelviewer (Might to be Revamped/Recolored if chosen, of course)

Another thing, I wasn't aware about the Mysterious Stranger, his design is particular but now I understand why he's special, he's an ethereal like from TBC ? For now I'll assume it's but ok good to know, I like it. And you, Jamey, you're telling us he'll play a role in some future quest. So that's I wanted: Content & Lore about your characters.
Then about a NPC related to his Challenge, a special quest when you reach this lvl60 should be awesome, isn't ? By the way, we can't deny one thing about Karazhan, it's a cursed nexus point about ley-lines, Malygos saw Medivh doing shit with that, he tooks them to the Nexus : "Yo mortal what are you doing with the Arcane ?" Karazhan is fucked up, it's a Gate, not like Dark portal, with the unique prismatic dragon in WoW, not chromatic not a netherdragon but yes a prismatic's one he's unique, accord ding TBC's stuff if Twow like it, he's from another world/dimension, maybe the mysterious stranger is him ? in mortal shape, usual dragon's trick.

• My idea, my quest, many choices flavourful:

Origin of the mount is an Nefarian's creature, already explained on my preview topic and link at "Original topic", scroll-up a litte if you want more. A quest to finished this labor, this mode...I am wondering if we can have flaveourful choices (not matter) at the end, like with Sayge from the DMF (Lovely Buffs..mmmh), many choice, with a special whisper/emote in DM or any item, like with Sayge again, and well a tiny minor buff a silly one but "Hey look at my title, my tabard, my mount(Bronzestalke's one hehe i hope) and my buff, i am someone else, something else..."

I am really in for Karazhan & Bronze stuff for this Immortality. But with Mysterious Stranger's origin, why not more about him with this Immortality ? On my preview topic, I suggested someone like Noz from Bronze'flight. What if this creature is related as an curious "animal totemic", warp stalker is designed as a lizard, you get it ? Ok, prepare yourself, I'll put some IRL stuff but I promise it's cool : If we look better this creature can "looks like" an Ouroboros, yeah but I am not talking about of this evil old god creature in AQ40 (Ouro), but about symbolic's stuff, i had a very good feeling and inspiration with that.

"The ouroboros or uroboros (/ˌjʊərəˈbɒrəs/[2]) is an ancient symbol depicting a serpent or dragon[3] eating its own tail."
"The ouroboros is often interpreted as a symbol for eternal cyclic renewal or a cycle of life, death, and rebirth; the snake’s skin-sloughing symbolizes the transmigration of souls."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros
It's a mythologic creature, exactly, but IRL a specie exist similar to it : Cordylus Cataphractus, you'll love this, he's so cute and very protected, very rare, he's <Still Alive>, litteraly, protect it at any cost, like netherdrake at TBC, protected ! Protect this poor creature, an Ethereal already worked with (fel)orcs working with Nefarian for them, why not those cutie-badasse lizard ? It's a neutral choice about major factions, by the way.

Lmao, sorry if I was so deep with it. I am very deepful about lore's stuff if we want to talk about immersive stuff, and TurtleWoW want to be an RP server, so I am very concerned by those "visuals".

Please, tell me what do you think about it.

That thing looks good, sadly Torta say this at Discord: Adding entirely new mounts is possible only with the client update and we're not planning one before 1.16.3 which is a major patch. I'm afraid now we will have to discuss only options which are already available in the game files. ........................... So needs to be a alñready existing mount ... ofc the Undead horse is just a few words. ... a lame steed and a real abomination for me at least .... lore aside is just not worth it.

[Adunai]

- NO mounts with wings or flying device (Engineering mounts, mimiron's head, invincible). Having something with wings but cannot fly would just look silly and weird.

Do you want to say I wasted 23 EUR to buy the Viridian Hippogryph? It's one of the only two mounts that fit Quel'dorei, and I can't even think of anything else to add for that aesthetic - and no, the ostriches from TBC are not canon in vanilla. I see no issue with riding Hippogryphs or Gryphons.

[Furinkazan]

Pretty hard. We do not have a modeler on the team. Finding a 3D modeler is easy, but finding someone who can work with ancient formats from 2004 is nearly impossible. Everyone who tried just got too frustrated and demotivated over convertation issues they had to face.

Where have you looked? I'm guessing you've tried the Noggit discord, and the community itself - but what about more obscure places, like the HIVE Workshop, or archaic modding sites like Moddb? Or broader-reaching places, like WoW subreddits, or the forums of popular sites for WoW tools and databases? I know this is probably saying the obvious, but there would have to be a few places unchecked.

In more places than anyone could phantom. The reality is that while the emulation and mod-community are very active in later expansions, most notably Wrath of the Lich King, this is untrue for Vanilla. The client has undergone a lot of changes between these two versions of the game and thus a lot of tools that are public are simply useless to us. Meaning we have to develop them ourselves or modify them to fit our needs and even this is sometimes not feasible. We're no short in the department of talent for modeling but if you combine this requirement with knowledge of Vanilla game formats you start to get into a very niche speciality.

Regardless, we appreciate your feedback and your willingness to think alongside us.

It baffles me still that the decision came to simply remove fully functional mounts, when it is so hard to import mounts from later expansions. The pool for substitute mounts that works with this version of the game and would match the achievement of completing the hc challenge turns out to be extremely limited.

The amount of controversy this whole thing has caused is very sad to see, I hope some sort of compromise could be done with the drake, for example adjusting its size. Because currently I cannot see another mount that can fit most criterias and satisfy most players unfortunately.

[Bainville]

- NO mounts with wings or flying device (Engineering mounts, mimiron's head, invincible). Having something with wings but cannot fly would just look silly and weird.

Do you want to say I wasted 23 EUR to buy the Viridian Hippogryph? It's one of the only two mounts that fit Quel'dorei, and I can't even think of anything else to add for that aesthetic - and no, the ostriches from TBC are not canon in vanilla. I see no issue with riding Hippogryphs or Gryphons.

Well, i make a distinction between in-game shop mounts and mounts obtainable by playing so i wouldn't say it was a waste. And yes, that does fit lorewise but imo it does look silly to have flying mount stuck to the ground. Even though i admit it does look less silly compared to a huge dragon.

[Qvberzelt]

That thing looks good, sadly Torta say this at Discord: Adding entirely new mounts is possible only with the client update and we're not planning one before 1.16.3 which is a major patch. I'm afraid now we will have to discuss only options which are already available in the game files. ........................... So needs to be a alñready existing mount ... ofc the Undead horse is just a few words. ... a lame steed and a real abomination for me at least .... lore aside is just not worth it.

I don't think so, staff told us to choose a decent model bellow Cata or something like that, that's not from me, that from Jamey, and it's not an add but a swapmodel, it's different, yea we'll doawnload something like 10mo max.

The horse is good, but not for HC, he isn't not lame at all, it's about a reward with a challenge, model'll never be an issue.

[Loopybat]

I worry that more mounts will be removed soon if this becomes a trend. I support additions and modifications, not removals.

[Torta]

I worry that more mounts will be removed soon if this becomes a trend. I support additions and modifications, not removals.

I promise it will not become a trend, please do not worry about it.

[Drezzy95]

Version 1.12 creates a lot of restrictions which is sad because the Turtle mount on MOP would represent the server which is TurtleWOW, +1 for The Bronze Stalker for me

[Qvberzelt]

Version 1.12 creates a lot of restrictions which is sad because the Turtle mount on MOP would represent the server which is TurtleWOW, +1 for The Bronze Stalker for me

1.12 is "easy" but not at the same time, as Jamey said it, it fucking niche to know those stuff in 2022. But I am curious how we already have TBC display/skin and now we can't have more ? Sad for now, but still we can wait for a "new" mount until we have someone to works with 3D models, he needs some niche skills, if I am correct, but it's 400% doable, we already have TBC stuff, please.

I like the dragonturtle from MoP too but this model is "so" much for a vanilla, but i fucking really like. As i already said it, to me, it's not for HC, but more accurate for a Turtle mode, accurate !