Armored Azure Drake and other dragons...

[Aaryln]

Considering that the title says "Armored Azure Drake and other dragons...", should we expect something to happen with the Bronze Drake mount as well?

[Furinkazan]

Disclaimer: I hate my new horse mount as ally.

People who have gotten the drake mount should be able to keep it, now that is blizz-like. Probably it was a mistake having a drake mount as a reward to start with, but it is even a bigger mistake to yoink it from everybody who has already fought hard to get it.

Also, I have browsed through every post in this thread and the people did NOT choose that the Kazan horse mount.

This^, at this stage the dragon has become the icon for the hc challenge, due to its otherwise very lackluster rewards. And the good thing about the dragon is that it is very neutral and works for all races and with most transmogs. The horse on the other hand I can see only working for a handful of very specific transmogs...

[Mmoo]

May I suggest something similar to the following method:

1. Since all of the mounts up to WOTLK are potentially portable, the Turtle team makes a list of 20 potential candidates, or 10 candidates per faction, or whatever.
2. The community votes on this.
3. Among the top 3 voted by the community, the Turtle team picks the most-fitted one to the lore.

In this way, both sides are decisively involved in the process.

[Rurin]

On retail during BfA there was an ongoing flame against Blizzard that every mount they add for Alliance is a version of a horse (which was kinda true). After so many years of playing WoW people are bored to death of horses, it's the most common mount model in history - and while the outlook may change, the animations stay the same. Horse is a really really bad choice for unique hc-only reward. It would be better if it was the ghost horse like people linked, cause it's at least linked with death. But a basically "random" horse model? Meh.

[Ridlen]

Another suggestion I have in mind is Spectral Steed for the Alliance


And Spectral Wolf for Hordies?

+1

These are the best options.
They fit the HC theme

This is probably the best replacement.

This is the best option, for hardcore theme!

[Versidue]

Another suggestion I have in mind is Spectral Steed for the Alliance


And Spectral Wolf for Hordies?

If custom mounts aren't an option, then my choice would also be the spectral mounts.

However! I think the spectral gryphon and wyvern mounts should also be considered! I know the whole reason for this change is that flying mounts break immersion, but personally I don't really find that to be the case. The spectral gryphon/wyvern would also stand out that little bit more from yet another horse, or even a wolf.

I think my favorite way to implement this would be if players were given a token which they could use to choose between the spectral horse, wolf, gryphon, or wyvern!

But honestly, I don't really mind keeping the dragon XD
Maybe there could be a quest explaining why it chooses to follow you

[Torta]

Dear players, your opinions have not been ignored: we checked them all and the majority of suggested mounts are impossible to port in the Vanilla client: they're from too later expansions and use totally different formats, or look entirely out of place due to the quality of their models.

We tried porting down some spectral mounts from Cataclysm+, but those simply didn't work.

We couldn't let players keep dragons: seeing so many people on them walking in Stormwind, Orgrimmar, or other cities, totally blocking the view and covering the entire area just didn't feel right.

We had our minds between Warp Stalker, Talbuk, and Kharazan Horse, yet decided that Horse, yet it looks quite unique and "hardcore", is the least lore-breaking. Why would a Mysterious Stranger give you a Talbuk (those aren't even present in our timeline yet)? For Warp Stalkers we got other plans for the future.

For the CoT reward mount: we will probably remove this from the reputation rewards as well, I'm sorry. It was a bad decision to introduce dragons in Vanilla and we would like to fix it before the more harm is done.

I'm sorry that you're upset about the horse mount.

[Kyzen]

Dear players, your opinions have not been ignored: we checked them all and the majority of suggested mounts are impossible to port in the Vanilla client: they're from too later expansions and use totally different formats, or look entirely out of place due to the quality of their models.

We tried porting down some spectral mounts from Cataclysm+, but those simply didn't work.

We couldn't let players keep dragons: seeing so many people on them walking in Stormwind, Orgrimmar, or other cities, totally blocking the view and covering the entire area just didn't feel right.

We had our minds between Warp Stalker, Talbuk, and Karahan Horse, yet decided that Horse, yet it looks quite unique and "hardcore", is the least lore-breaking. Why would a Mysterious Stranger give you a Talbuk (those aren't even present in our timeline yet)? For Warp Stalkers we got other plans for the future.

For the CoT reward mount: we will probably remove this from the reputation rewards as well, I'm sorry. It was a bad decision to introduce dragons in Vanilla and we would like to fix it before the more harm is done.

I'm sorry that you're upset about the horse mount.

I do agree with the decision to change the mount. And I do support Turtle WoW and the amazing team.

I think that porting down Cataclysm and even higher xpac mounts is technically possible. (For example, there are people playing 1.12.1 with Wod models).

It would take a lot of work as it requires adapting models I guess (Rigging etc..). But I'm pretty sure you could get some help from the modding community for this (could be nice for future content).

[Furinkazan]

I think it is a shame that you are removing fully functional mounts, I assume there is only a limited pool of mounts available between vanilla and WOTLK as seen by the rejected suggestions. Surely they can be adjusted somehow, in size if that is the main issue.

EDIT:

We couldn't let players keep dragons: seeing so many people on them walking in Stormwind, Orgrimmar, or other cities, totally blocking the view and covering the entire area just didn't feel right.

If the issue is in the main cities, then can they instead be disabled there as a compromise? I have so far not had an issue with them blocking, as I've only seen the occasional one dragon around at max . But I could see the issue of multiple players... So perhaps no parking for dragons?

[Versidue]

For the CoT reward mount: we will probably remove this from the reputation rewards as well, I'm sorry. It was a bad decision to introduce dragons in Vanilla and we would like to fix it before the more harm is done.

I get where you're coming from and I can respect that. If you feel like it's a mistake It is definitely better to stop now before there's too many dragons out in the world. Once again though I will say, I believe the people who already have their dragons should get to keep them. In the long run this won't be very many people, so it shouldn't clog up the cities too much.

....and maybe you could set a time limit for the drake's retirement, so that people who have been working towards them have a shot XD (please )
(am I in the bargaining stage of grief? maybe)

[Drezzy95]

Hey, tell us what you guys think so we can completely ignore it.

[Mmoo]

How about these ones from WOTLK that look good on all races?

Invincible - It is a horse but a way cooler one. It doesn't block any view. It has wings but well, so do chickens and they can't fly. Fits the mysterious guy's appear.



Mimiron's Head - very unique appear. Even though it has propellers, it could be interpreted as hovering instead of flying.



Traveler's Tundra Mammoth - Big, visible and have vendors as HC reward. Any other mammoth would look cool too.

[Asagort]

Hey everyone,
Im new to turtle wow, as I just started playing, so I know Im late for this topic in particular, but Id like to give my two cents on such rewards for the future.
For hard to achieve features, like “the immortal”, or whatever you’ll implement in the future, Id suggest giving as a reward to players something really unique. There are items that were added in the game, but were never available for players. Mounts/items imported from other versions of the game, while we obviously havent seen them in Classic, most of us know them from the later versions of the game.
For such features, Id suggest also thinking about items such as the Swift dawnsaber, or the flourescent Mechanostrider, as a reward to add with also other exclusive stuffs. Those were never added for players, and its something the majority of people dont even know they existed, hence the real reward and rareness.

[Drezzy95]

How about these ones from WOTLK that look good on all races?

Invincible - It is a horse but a way cooler one. It doesn't block any view. It has wings but well, so do chickens and they can't fly. Fits the mysterious guy's appear.



Mimiron's Head - very unique appear. Even though it has propellers, it could be interpreted as hovering instead of flying.



Traveler's Tundra Mammoth - Big, visible and have vendors as HC reward. Any other mammoth would look cool too.

With their version 1.12 they can not exceed the TBC version perhaps, for the additions of the mounts of WOTLK it will be complicated or even impossible.

[Torta]

We have discussed Invincible and decided it is just too legendary to be a reward for a challenge. It's the same if would give Black Qiraji Resonating Crystal for completing a Hardmode Challenge.

Warp Stalker from TBC is an option, but we'd like to keep them reserved for the Outland content.

[Drezzy95]

We have discussed Invincible and decided it is just too legendary to be a reward for a challenge. It's the same if would give Black Qiraji Resonating Crystal for completing a Hardmode Challenge.

Warp Stalker from TBC is an option, but we'd like to keep them reserved for the Outland content.

Otherwise you can create a poll on discord with several mounts and the community will choose, you just add the numbers in emojis and the community will vote.

[Asagort]

I dont completely agree with invincible being so epic honestly… back then, for those who killed LK 25 hero it would drop every time, and then even with the 1% droprate, now on retail basically everyone has it by simply farming ICC. For when WOTLK will come out on classic servers, everyone will then have one, as every guild will clear ICC hero with the knowledge we got nowadays.
Ain’t the same for super rare and unique mounts like the black qiraji, or mounts like the ones I posted before, that were never really added in the game and are for real unique.
Invincible is yes a cool mount, but nothing too crazy or “legendary”. It could be given for such features (in my opinion). At the end of the day, its a mount seen over and over again

[Dangeraaron10]

So ya'll gonna replace an armored blue dragon with a horse with goofy fangs?

Maybe consider a Frost Wyrm mount? Instead of being Khara themed it'd be Naxx themed! It's not a living, sentient dragon! And there's a built-in excuse as to why it can't fly, the damn thing barely has any membrane between its wings.



It's still a dragon, but not a living dragon.

Edit: I feel like I should clarify that I'm not terribly upset by the change. Disappointed as a dragon enjoyer and horse hater, but nothing I'll lose sleep over.

[Crommush]

I'm fine with the Karazhan mount, despite being the one that suggested the spectral riders.
But can we give it a different tint, maybe? The original reward was blue, so can we perhaps recolour its textures and fx to match that shade?

It would also make it stand out from its Karazhan rendition (which could still be rewarded for content adjacent to that place?)

[Torta]

I'm fine with the Karazhan mount, despite being the one that suggested the spectral riders.
But can we give it a different tint, maybe? The original reward was blue, so can we perhaps recolour its textures and fx to match that shade?

It would also make it stand out from its Karazhan rendition (which could still be rewarded for content adjacent to that place?)

Givin' it a special color is possible

[Gerk]

Dear players, your opinions have not been ignored: we checked them all and the majority of suggested mounts are impossible to port in the Vanilla client: they're from too later expansions and use totally different formats, or look entirely out of place due to the quality of their models.

We tried porting down some spectral mounts from Cataclysm+, but those simply didn't work.

We couldn't let players keep dragons: seeing so many people on them walking in Stormwind, Orgrimmar, or other cities, totally blocking the view and covering the entire area just didn't feel right.

We had our minds between Warp Stalker, Talbuk, and Kharazan Horse, yet decided that Horse, yet it looks quite unique and "hardcore", is the least lore-breaking. Why would a Mysterious Stranger give you a Talbuk (those aren't even present in our timeline yet)? For Warp Stalkers we got other plans for the future.

For the CoT reward mount: we will probably remove this from the reputation rewards as well, I'm sorry. It was a bad decision to introduce dragons in Vanilla and we would like to fix it before the more harm is done.

I'm sorry that you're upset about the horse mount.

Okay, are you going to get rid of the whimsyshire clouds then? Because that's breaking the hell out of my immersion.

[Torta]

Okay, are you going to get rid of the whimsyshire clouds then? Because that's breaking the hell out of my immersion.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but those little fellas are actually lore-friendly :p they're also very small.
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=81207

The change I'd like to perform on then is to actually make them less transparent because they look weird when races with long legs ride them.

[Kyzen]

We have discussed Invincible and decided it is just too legendary to be a reward for a challenge. It's the same if would give Black Qiraji Resonating Crystal for completing a Hardmode Challenge.

Warp Stalker from TBC is an option, but we'd like to keep them reserved for the Outland content.

Outland content

[Gerk]

Okay, are you going to get rid of the whimsyshire clouds then? Because that's breaking the hell out of my immersion.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but those little fellas are actually lore-friendly :p they're also very small.
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=81207

The change I'd like to perform on then is to actually make them less transparent because they look weird when races with long legs ride them.

You can't link to your own database and say it's lore friendly, unless you can point to it I see nothing in actual WoW lore that these existed (and it probably would have been a later retail expansion anyway). The only trace I see of these existing is a secret level in Diablo III, so no, it's not lore friendly, it's a cash grab and just as immersion breaking if not significantly more so than the Armored Azure Drake.

[Versidue]

We have discussed Invincible and decided it is just too legendary to be a reward for a challenge. It's the same if would give Black Qiraji Resonating Crystal for completing a Hardmode Challenge.

Warp Stalker from TBC is an option, but we'd like to keep them reserved for the Outland content.

Outland content

I am also hype for outlands content :O

that would be even more reason to make a special warp stalker the hardcore mount, though, with the karazhan connection!!

[Torta]

You can't link to your own database and say it's lore friendly, unless you can point to it I see nothing in actual WoW lore that these existed (and it probably would have been a later retail expansion anyway). The only trace I see of these existing is a secret level in Diablo III, so no, it's not lore friendly, it's a cash grab and just as immersion breaking if not significantly more so than the Armored Azure Drake.

I'll give you the first and the last warning about your behavior. I'm not being rude to anyone, nor am I'm not your enemy. You have to hold your conversation with staff and other players in a civil way. So far your every message on this forum has a mocking fleur, it's enough.

Please visit our website and read about our custom expansion called Mysteries of Azeroth, which is basically, yet another branch of Azeroth's history, as we are envisioning and writing it: https://turtle-wow.org/#/home As long as there's a reasonable and logical explanation for the existence of those clouds, it's part of MoA lore.

Once we have a city of Dalaran in-game, there'll be little lovely cloud familiars here and there :)

We do consider removal of the mounts from the shop, simply because they stand out too much graphically, but familiars will stay.

[Gerk]

You can't link to your own database and say it's lore friendly, unless you can point to it I see nothing in actual WoW lore that these existed (and it probably would have been a later retail expansion anyway). The only trace I see of these existing is a secret level in Diablo III, so no, it's not lore friendly, it's a cash grab and just as immersion breaking if not significantly more so than the Armored Azure Drake.

I'll give you the first and the last warning about your behavior. I'm not being rude to anyone, nor am I'm not your enemy. You have to hold your conversation with staff and other players in a civil way. So far your every message on this forum has a mocking fleur, it's enough.

Please visit our website and read about our custom expansion called Mysteries of Azeroth, which is basically, yet another branch of Azeroth's history, as we are envisioning and writing it: https://turtle-wow.org/#/home As long as there's a reasonable and logical explanation for the existence of those clouds, it's part of MoA lore.

Once we have a city of Dalaran in-game, there'll be little lovely cloud familiars here and there :)

We do consider removal of the mounts from the shop, simply because they stand out too much graphically, but familiars will stay.

I have intentionally avoided insulting you and have plainly pointed out what you're doing. I made a HC character just for that Drake. I busted my ass to get to 60 and finally got it and then I couldn't equip it. Then I busted my ass to make the gold to be able to ride it. Then I had it for an entire week before you guys rug pulled it while claiming to take player feedback but not even holding a straw poll or the like. Now you want to assert that a smiling cartoon cloud is less immersion breaking than a drake and threaten me to boot. I see how this is going to be, I'll let myself out.

[Torta]

I have intentionally avoided insulting you and have plainly pointed out what you're doing. I made a HC character just for that Drake. I busted my ass to get to 60 and finally got it and then I couldn't equip it. Then I busted my ass to make the gold to be able to ride it. Then I had it for an entire week before you guys rug pulled it while claiming to take player feedback but not even holding a straw poll or the like. Now you want to assert that a smiling cartoon cloud is less immersion breaking than a drake and threaten me to boot. I see how this is going to be, I'll let myself out.

I understand that you're upset about the Drake, and I'm sorry that we offered it in the first place w/o seeing the future consequences. But you've entered this conversation loud and proud directly with this post: viewtopic.php?p=21392#p21392 Was it supposed to look polite?

We're still gathering feedback about this change, stay safe. I hope in the end we'll find a solution which will more or less be alright with everyone.

[Jolikmc]

And this is the exact sort of thing that made me stop playing Turtle WoW. Staff indecision and a lack of transparency and communication. And then what little random communication there is generally winds up being openly hostile or, at the very least, confused.

Gerk didn't do anything wrong beyond the meme post. He was calmly-but-strongly expressing himself in regards to the removal of the Hardcore reward mount. I, for one, don't see the harm in keeping it around since it's truly the most unique thing around. If you're worried about its size, then downscale it. I know for a fact that you can do at least that. The Glyph Vendor in Camp Narache is a prime example of that – he's puny.

Also.

Why would a Mysterious Stranger give you a Talbuk (those aren't even present in our timeline yet)?

Well, if you're going that route, then where in the world of Azeroth would one obtain a bright green nightstalker? Or a Brewfest Ram / Kodo, since Brewfest "doesn't exist in the current timeline"? Or a grumpy cloud from another dimension…?

You probably shouldn't use "lore" an excuse if you're going to have wacky additions like that in the game. Doubly so since you seem to have no problem pulling other content from the retail expansions… like that random tuskarr in Darkshore, or you know, all the foxes that apparently fell out of the Emerald Dream just to populate Azeroth.

[Ramue]

I posted this in another thread, but since this seems to be the designated place for this I will repost here.

Taking away the azure armored drake is a Pandora's box turtle just opened.
With it's opening all that myself and many other players will feel when we look at what we have achieved myself having earned some real cool accolades from my over 2+ years playing on turtle wow is apathy.
Which recent choices have made it clear that all we have earned and achieved can be taken away on a mere feeling just from this one incident, and that is a experience that has cut my motivation and enthusiasm for the server to near zero levels and I am sure will for many others.

This isn't about the mount itself or the lore turtle wants to convey or even about how cool or uncool the replacement is, but rather the message this sends to myself and every player on the server with the fact the drake was taken away completely.
And that message is, all your achievements no matter what it is can be taken away at the merest of twow dev's whims it is a horrible feeling to have and only sows distrust between players and staff as apathy grows from more stunts like this.

Punishing the players by taking away their trophies because of turtle's lack of foresight is the worst solution to this.

Please have a nice day who ever is reading this. Thank you for taking the time to read it.

[Brankonius]

I whole heartily agree with Ramue and many others. Being able to take away someone's achievement is not cool. straight up.

Like me and many others, coming to the turtle wow homepage and discovering the hardcore mode and seeing how epic that drake looked alone made me want to attempt the challenge. Will I obtain it? who knows? But now I can never obtain it and it kind of saddens me. Part of me as a player would never even attempt this challenge to begin with. The drake symbolizes something bigger than just a mount. Its legit a symbol and badass one of an achievement that should merit a reward as big as that one. The horse doesn't even compare. Please for the love of the community. listen to us.

[Stoogeville]

I know I'm in a minority here, but I honestly think the horse looks pretty fuckin' cool.

But, if players already have the mount, they shouldn't have it taken away. That's uncool.

And, really, if the players want it, just do it. 90% of Blizzard's problems came from ignoring their playerbase. Don't make the same mistakes, yeah?

[Torta]

I whole heartily agree with Ramue and many others. Being able to take away someone's achievement is not cool. straight up.

Like me and many others, coming to the turtle wow homepage and discovering the hardcore mode and seeing how epic that drake looked alone made me want to attempt the challenge. Will I obtain it? who knows? But now I can never obtain it and it kind of saddens me. Part of me as a player would never even attempt this challenge to begin with. The drake symbolizes something bigger than just a mount. Its legit a symbol and badass one of an achievement that should merit a reward as big as that one. The horse doesn't even compare. Please for the love of the community. listen to us.

We're listening, just gathering additional feedback before making the next decision on this matter.

[Stoogeville]

Here's a question: How hard would it be to institute a custom model as a mount into Turtle? Rigged and all?

[Dakka97]

Not sure how things are lining up here, but I've just joined TWoW and made my first character hardcore because regular WoW doesn't excite me anymore.

I'll take whatever I can get, but above all I'd prefer a mount that stands out from the rest because I've always played games with the mindset that those who go challenge themselves should be the most rewarded.