Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

[Garish]

as a melee hunter u can do a dual tank leveling with a bear or boar pet, using all your dots on a mob and make your pet aggro, than pull another mob and put your dots (lacerate with bloodlust and wolf aspect greatly improve this build tho) than melee the mobs to death.

Melee hunter only needs 2 things
1. buff in melee dmg skills(with wolf aspect on,maybe hitting with both weapons with 100% dmg)
2. moongose bite working on parrys (deflection talent supports that)
Plus tip:
Bleeding crescent axe is your core item at lvl 30
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=6738/bleeding-crescent

[Ravielsk]

I am very thankful for the teams willingness to to make some serious changes to the classes. Adding new content to the game while keeping the old borked classes would just feel like wasted effort. Especially the paladin changes are very much welcome.

But if I am getting this right these changes are not yet implemented on the live server as that runs on the 1.16.0 client and not 1.16.1. Did I understand that right?

[Amarath]

With these changes im coming to TWow. This was what was holding me back. I played classic, twice on retail and a few times on pservers. A new starting zone is not enough for me to play it again. Now classic as a paladin, shaman, and others sure ill sign up for that.

[Amarath]

I am very thankful for the teams willingness to to make some serious changes to the classes. Adding new content to the game while keeping the old borked classes would just feel like wasted effort. Especially the paladin changes are very much welcome.

But if I am getting this right these changes are not yet implemented on the live server as that runs on the 1.16.0 client and not 1.16.1. Did I understand that right?

Yeah its not live and the current conflict i guess is causing more delay. They did send an update in the discord saying so, but they roll out patches slowly after all it is turtle wow :P ... i wouldn't count of them shortly, but they could come.

[Amarath]

...
The big question is however, the fact that you are hinting at the concept of increasing the debuff limit with rogue but not giving a clear answer? If you are increasing the debuff cap then alot of my concerns are mitigated. However, if you are not doing so then that still has the issue of Crusader Strike not being worth stacking. The idea of using Crusader Strike to buff your damage + opening up your judgment slot for Light/Wisdom is definitely an idea I enjoy, but i'm concerned about the debuff slot economy in regards to this concept.
...

Overall, I love the concept overall and I'm excited to try it once it's properly implemented, but my main concern is how crusader strike is going to be possibly catered too justify it's debuff slot and how one could use that to help ret paladin have a niche in a raid setting.

They almost have to do this or spriest cannot use VE to mana battery. I mean with buff cap increased Shadow priests could easily be useful (TBC players love them so will you). But without VE they are just bad dps. (I guess the changes help the 1 in raid used for Shadow Weaving...)

[Jombo]

Question about Arcane Brilliance aura. In WC3 it was an actual aura. Since you still use that name, why not make it an actual aura instead of a 30 min buff? Also it would be less annoying to use and stand out as a new feature in a positive way.

[Keridan66]

Any information, when this changes to classes and talents are going to be done on the server? At least I'd love to know if it will be this month or not.

[Allwynd01]

Any information, when this changes to classes and talents are going to be done on the server? At least I'd love to know if it will be this month or not.

Probably never.

[Nartt]

Any information, when this changes to classes and talents are going to be done on the server? At least I'd love to know if it will be this month or not.

+1

[Sinrek]

We're currently testing some spells and trying to come up with sensible values, so, as you might've imagine it takes time.

Stay tuned for the announcement. I'm sure nobody wants to have a patch with tons of new bugs, right?

[Witch101]

Please shorten Hurricane's cooldown. Thanks.

[Olgah]

That's a LOT of mana for a single target "somewhat" CC on the Troll shaman racial skill.

While the other two gets a full 20 seconds duration on their own, the hex *Which would be really only useful on caster-type mobs or players* assuming you can't dispel it. You'll rather prefer a mage to cast Polymorph and that'll be better, in fact any other CC is just overall better, there's no need for the 4 seconds hex.

The troll one really needs a change, it's very underwhelming, and 21% base mana cost it's a LOT for it.

I'll rather them have a Serpent Ward instead, that last the full 20 seconds duration and deals some chaotic single target spicy damage than the Hex if we're talking on voodoo-ish-shadow hunter type of racial for troll shamans.

IMO the hex as it is there, is rather weak and unneeded, in comparison to the other two who seems to have a better usability.

[Zenjarla]

Warrior change

While i agree that warriors are silly in vanilla there was 1 change in TBC that i think would be a great addition in classic, and that is the support role of arms warrior by giving them the blood frenzy talent:
"Your Rend and Deep Wounds abilities also increase all physical damage caused to that target by 4%."

Whit this talent it was desirable to not only have fury warriors but an arms that actually could bring something more then just dmg to the raid. That and also the nature of TBC (And even more in vanilla) where some bosses needed more then 1 tank, the arms (because of the nature of his talent tree) had no issue filling the spot as a back up tank. It also created a spot for a 2h dmg dealer that is basically none existed and almost all 2h wpns are consider pvp wpns in vanilla.

A big issue is that you dont want to give this to warriors for free in their pvp spec, but by the nautre of having it in the end of the talent tree ppl would need to make the choice of ether having 5 points in enrage or 4% dmg... which no pvper would ever consider taking since thats 4% vs 10%.

But i also realise that buffing physical dmg for vanilla might not the best direction since their overall dmg scale to good, and the fact that Arms in TBC have a rotation with slam, and slam in vanilla is not the same, specially since you cant reach improved slam (unless you lower it) while having mortal strike and this talent.

I know this might be to much but as a fan of support warrior build in tbc i hope maybe it could inspire a future look over. Vanilla have the best world, but tbc brings soo many more fun and unique builds and i think many forget this role of an arms support.

[Tasman]

About paladin changes.
I have some ideas about alternative version of taunt for paladins. Also it can be fine addition to seal taunt that devs introduced in new talent trees. This will be spell that can be trained at 16 lvl if it will be main taunt. Or on 30 lvl as secondary mass taunt but with much longer cooldown. (Current version portrayed as main taunt).
Orb of Light
3% of base mana
30 yard range.
15 sec cooldown
Instant
Hurls an orb that explodes in area targeted by paladin, taunting all enemies that are present in radius of 5 yards.

[Allwynd01]

Melee Hunters should be able to equip shields.

[Captem]

To the DEVS, regarding the Druid changes: Make the Tree of Life shapeshift visual form OPTIONAL, either with some kind of glyph or similar. Like others have mentioned earlier in the thread, the tree of life Treant is not very visually appealing and is not in line with the Druid Lore in the warcraft universe. Druids could summon treants and could shapeshift into animals and beasts, but they were mainly casters in humanoid form. Please consider making it optional, or even change the ability from shapeshifting to something else, or even use the Cata version. I'm sure a lot of players would greatly appreciate this.

Thank you.

Here's a good representation of a healing Druid:

[Tasman]

Another idea about paladin changes.
Holy talent tree, row 3.
Name: Holy Land.
Requires 10 points in Holy Talents and 1 point to obtain it (It should be placed where consecration is located at this moment).
Description:
Grants your consecration spell ability to heal you, members of your party and raid if they stand on the consecrated land. Healing occurs every time when damage supposed to be done to the enemies who enter the area.
Note:
To make things clear, damage and healing scales separately from two specific spell power stats. In stock without any spell power, damage and healing are equal to each other. But if you have more damage spell power, damage from consecration will be higher than healing. Same it works if you have more healing spell power.

[Kasztan]

Sooooo, any news on when the class changes patch will be released?

[Marty1980]

I really enjoy all those change and it will make it quite unique. But to just use TBC talent tree, make the cap at 60, and remove outland, would certainly bring more new player.

I am a new player here and will stay no matter what, but vanilla + had new spec, new spell, and it s dropped quite fast.

So it seem only a minority of people love those custom change.

I really enjoy what i am seeing so far, but the server could use and extra few hundreds of active players.

[Chulain]

Can we make Curse of Shadow/Elements also lower Nature resistance? Idc for the 10% added damage I just would love to see the resistance lowered since it's difficult to get a whopping 75 resistance reduction

[Jesterjacks]

I feel cheated that I got into Turtle WoW believing these changes to be already here based on your website. After the initial disappointment (which I am certain is not unique to me), I still kept playing to see the custom content.

That being said, I'm eager for the changes now, and waiting for them with bated breath. I'd like to see at least an ETA or something. So far, in any discussion I saw about these in game or outside the game, nobody knows anything and there's a high level of frustration. It's nice to see people put faith into the devs, and I'm certain I'll grow to do the same. You guys seem dedicated to the work here, so it's fantastic to see that. But getting some news is better than no news.

Regarding the feedback, I love the idea of making specs viable, particularly shadow priest, arcane-oriented arcane mage (albeit rip mages still only having to spam one ability), non-combat rogue, pally tank, etc.

One of my concerns is, however, feral druid. My question to you all, is there a way we can get rid of powershifting requirement (i.e. the helmet for energy and energy management by shifting out and in cat form) and the hammer from gnomeregan? In my personal opinion and experience, some people who wanted to try feral were off-put by this as it's pretty much a mandatory for feral dps, and I admit, myself included would like to see this not be a thing.

I know one of the issues and requirements for the powershift is energy management, so if you could change the energy gain (by increasing it) and perhaps change the energy gain talent to have a cooldown, you wouldn't be forced into powershift constantly. The mace, I doubt there's any workaround that, other than either removing it or adding attack power in shapeshift to items.

[Redmagejoe]

I feel cheated that I got into Turtle WoW believing these changes to be already here based on your website. After the initial disappointment (which I am certain is not unique to me), I still kept playing to see the custom content.

That being said, I'm eager for the changes now, and waiting for them with bated breath. I'd like to see at least an ETA or something. So far, in any discussion I saw about these in game or outside the game, nobody knows anything and there's a high level of frustration. It's nice to see people put faith into the devs, and I'm certain I'll grow to do the same. You guys seem dedicated to the work here, so it's fantastic to see that. But getting some news is better than no news.

Not to suggest that I am not thoroughly enjoying what the server already has to offer in terms of custom content and the most chill community I've met on a WoW server since 2004 (not to say that the par for the course trolling isn't still present), thus being the best WoW experience I have had since 2004... But I have to agree with this poster. I didn't come here for RP or PvE (though I am finding I enjoy the PvE setting after 18 years of playing on PvP servers), I came here for the promising class rebalance. I would like to think I will continue playing for a while, but if there isn't some sort of transparency or communication about these changes, the frustration is going to continue to nibble away at the patience of those of us who came here originally for the class changes.

In short, please at least give a rough estimate to the players, that they might stave off the desire to leave, or on a more positive note, begin advertising to their friends who may be intrigued by the changes. I've already had to give the disclaimer to a few potentially interested parties that I have no idea when, if ever, this patch is going to drop.

[Dickeradieschen]

True that. I havent played for a couple of months now, because I'm waiting for the class changes.

[Projecx]

I have also stopped playing because I was waiting for class changes.

[Nartt]

I have also stopped playing because I was waiting for class changes.

+1

[Faustorgo]

+2

[Redmagejoe]

It's clear that people are anxious to hear some news on this, so it would be appreciated if Staff could make any sort of comment as to the current progress of class changes.

[Smokingrinch]

I have also stopped playing because I was waiting for class changes.

+3

[Walters]

I feel cheated that I got into Turtle WoW believing these changes to be already here based on your website.

Have just heard about these class changes and was going to come back here to check em... And there is this post...
So, these class changes (announced in november) still aren't in the game? They have even updated the talent calculator, but not the game itself?
PS Still better than V+ with their pvp nonsence.

[Redmagejoe]

I, too, was fooled by the talent calculator on the site. Revert the calculator until the patch is in, or put a big, obvious disclaimer at the top of the calculator page.

[Jesterjacks]

I do wish there would at least be a few class changes, rather than the baiting and false promise of "it's gonna come". I'd have preferred to see 1 added thing rather than 200 added things, but at least see there is a change happening. And if balancing is an issue, there's always balance fixing.

That being said, this is a bit of a choosing beggars. Devil's advocate would say you pay nothing for this. But TBH, I would gladly donate and help the server for all this effort. Alas, atm, I just feel bitter. I stopped playing as I don't know what I want to level FOR the changes. I could be playing rogue and realize that the changes make priest very interesting. As far as I've seen, the first thread isn't accurate with the talent changes on the website either.

But yes, what is interesting about Vwow is the additions. While I'd say is a bit too much change, it's still a nice experience. I am certain all the custom content existing already in Twow is gonna be dope along the class changes. But I personally don't like the clickbaiting. I had friends who didn't warn me of this, but revealed they left because of it once I brought it up. Which sucks.

[Razzz]

I've been admittedly out of the loop in terms of checking discord and the like as of late, but the last time I heard anything about the talent changes was right when a very specific world event (you know what I'm talking about hint hint hint) began.

Didn't they say that some or all of the staff members who had been working on the changes and were the ones who would have implemented them have been affected by said world event?

If that's still the case then the talents have to wait until things calm down, right?

[Bellybutton]

A lot of the staff are dealing with the war over in Eastern Europe, and another lot of the staff are dealing with Covid.
It's slowed everything down.

[Chulain]

It's not a reason to keep us in the dark like this. It's taking a long time, we're talking months here not days.

It's the team's job to keep us informed even if the reasons are the same cause right now it feels like the update was left abandoned.

Last news was more than a month ago and it was "right around the corner".

[Jesterjacks]

It's not a reason to keep us in the dark like this. It's taking a long time, we're talking months here not days.

It's the team's job to keep us informed even if the reasons are the same cause right now it feels like the update was left abandoned.

Last news was more than a month ago and it was "right around the corner".

Agreed. At least a monthly update would be cute, even if the update is just how much progress they've had (or not). An ETA would be the best, but I also understand this is an irl situation that's difficult. I also highly doubt there's just two people, one with covid and one in Ukraine, that does this.

I wouldn't probably be so mad if I didn't get "clickbaited" so hard. It felt uncomfortable, to say the least. It's a pity because there's lots of potential.