Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

User avatar
Dragunovi
Posts: 169

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Dragunovi » Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:08 pm

Feedback and Discussions made after the release of the final changelog start after this message.
Still making items...
Dragunovi - Level 60 Human Tankadin
Dragunir - Level 60 Dwarf Shadow Priest
Dragun - Level 17 Troll Hunter
Dragunis - Level 60 Human Warlock
Zephyris - Level 60 Elemental Shaman

Brandedblade
Posts: 5

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Brandedblade » Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:27 pm

The new ret talent is definitely a welcome concept, giving the ret seal dispel resistance works well enough, and the extra mana, while not a lot, is technically extra raid utility and a bone for the ret paladins' mana sustain.

The big question is however, the fact that you are hinting at the concept of increasing the debuff limit with rogue but not giving a clear answer? If you are increasing the debuff cap then alot of my concerns are mitigated. However, if you are not doing so then that still has the issue of Crusader Strike not being worth stacking. The idea of using Crusader Strike to buff your damage + opening up your judgment slot for Light/Wisdom is definitely an idea I enjoy, but i'm concerned about the debuff slot economy in regards to this concept.

In addendum, a big discussion I'm currently seeing on our discord is concept of extending the seal talent to affect all seals, and possibly increasing the amount of mana the paladin, and the paladin alone, is receiving from the talent, akin to the tbc one.

Overall, I love the concept overall and I'm excited to try it once it's properly implemented, but my main concern is how crusader strike is going to be possibly catered too justify it's debuff slot and how one could use that to help ret paladin have a niche in a raid setting.

User avatar
Ramue
Posts: 13

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Ramue » Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:38 pm

On the Priest adjustments to the champion stuff, the fact Empower champion is both worse than consumes and doesn't stack with them renders the cast trash tier from the word go to be 100% honest.
They either need to stack or the spell needs a second rank that is stronger than the consumes.
(It won't ruin consume's value since the spell can only be cast on a single person in group.)

Also the fact that the champion's resolve only lasts 10 seconds on a 5 minute CD is just 100% too meager. Either the effect needs to last 2 min at a minimum or the CD needs to be like a minute at most.

Other than those two things I am very happy with the changes to priest overall!

EDIT: I do also want to add, if it is about keeping dwarf FW stronger it is already much more powerful by default because Champion's Resolve can only be cast on a single person in a given raid, FW can be cast on everyone as cool down allows.

Geojak
Posts: 207

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Geojak » Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:41 am

Hello, I and many paladins are concerned by the current crusader strike proposal.

For me, paladins are the one class, where you don't spamm on global cooldown something at all times. If crusader strike got no CD, then this heavily goes in contradiction to what makes a vanilla paladin for me atleast.

Secondly, in vanilla, paladins got judgment of the crusader to boost holy damage. Now crusader strike will compete with the vanilla design. Why mess with what's not broken?

Others have mentioned the problem of extra debuff slot taken and it not stacking with each other.

Can we pls just find a way to introdu e the spell without altering vanilla paladins in unecesary ways?

For example give the spell a 6 sec CD atleast, and have it give a stacking buff on the paladin instead.

It would clearly differiate the two.
Judgment of crusader is on one target and immideitly St full strength.
Crusader strike buff would be on the paladin on Therefor not bound to one target, but it also needs time to ramp up 5 stacks with a 6 sec CD on the strike itself.

I would rather have no crusader strike at all than one that is in conflict with the vanilla paladins original way of playing

The current seal of crusader is only used ever for the judgment. Now with crusader strike, paladins might op to not even train the seal at all. Seal of crusader should give holy damage boost additionally to AP, then prots than use it to boost the consecration and holy to boost holy shock but cant use it to boost judgmenent damage of SoR or Soc.
Last edited by Geojak on Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
Msg

Geojak
Posts: 207

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Geojak » Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:56 am

Does retaliation rly need a 20% parry boost. Its already one of the most insane abilities in the game thaz allows warriors to do dmasge like no other and solo stuff once very half an hour.

Why does it need a buff?
Msg

Lancekot
Posts: 3

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Lancekot » Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:28 am

Give Warriors HIT

User avatar
Monmothma21
Posts: 35
Location: Eastern EU

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Monmothma21 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:26 am

It somehow made me almost feel like im back in TBC again, where every other class got cool new spells and ways to play but fury warriors got almost no changes at all. It already kinda hard to level alone as a warrior, especialy in early game, but it gonna stay as it is as far as i understand. I would be able to use Decisive Strike now but the only use for it i can come up with is beating mobs im trying to run away from. And i have to run away alot. Im doing slow and steady + the other one which makes me immune to rested XP and tents / lose xp on death, so dying is hurting my leveling alot. As a warrior i have nothing else to say, other then ill probably try roll a S.Priest. S.Priests sound like fun.
Last edited by Monmothma21 on Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
English is not my first language, not even second or third. Brace yourselves. sad_turtle

User avatar
Ingameacc12345
Posts: 19

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Ingameacc12345 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:34 am

I'm pretty underwhelmed by the overall hunter changes, but I won't complain as I don't play here for class changes.

User avatar
Allwynd01
Posts: 180

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Allwynd01 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:00 am

Ingameacc12345 wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:34 am
I'm pretty underwhelmed by the overall hunter changes, but I won't complain as I don't play here for class changes.
They feel underwhelming. But the purpose of this server is being Vanilla Plus and having changes not present in the original 1.12.1.

Urimeli
Posts: 2

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Urimeli » Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:30 am

I would love to have crusader strike be a personal buff rather than a debuff so it can actually be used in raids, the way it is now it would not be allowed to be used

User avatar
Raukodor
Posts: 268

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Raukodor » Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:57 am

So melee hunter wont be really buffed? Not scaling melee skills no raptor reduced cd or traps in combat?

Inthink wolf aspect is much worse than monkey (mongoose needs to.dodge) and you cant shoot. For 155 ap dont worth it
Khanzo. Blademaster and Explorer

Geojak
Posts: 207

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Geojak » Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:01 am

Monmothma21 wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:26 am
It somehow made me almost feel like im back in TBC again, where every other class got cool new spells and ways to play but fury warriors got almost no changes at all. It already kinda hard to level alone as a warrior, especialy in early game, but it gonna stay as it is as far as i understand. I would be able to use Decisive Strike now but the only use for it i can come up with is beating mobs im trying to run away from. And i have to run away alot. Im doing slow and steady + the other one which makes me immune to rested XP and tents / lose xp on death, so dying is hurting my leveling alot. As a warrior i have nothing else to say, other then ill probably try roll a S.Priest. S.Priests sound like fun.
Furry warriors are already broken in vanilla. Highest dps by a mile and can also tank as Firry prot.
I think you should be thankful devs do not nerf things so far, because warriors are the one thing that needs a nerf in endgame gear.
Msg

Silnoir
Posts: 1

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Silnoir » Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:02 am

As has been said above for pala changes and debuff limit, same would be true for SPriests vamp embrace even tho its a very strong debuff with its 2% mana leech. Then again you are generating additional threat for the heal part so there is a downside in raid/dungeons for that. i would prefer it being a buff on the priest itself, allowing more flexiable target switching and not messing with the debuff limit, however i can see why you want to have it as a debuff aswell.

User avatar
Tilsair
Posts: 4

Enha shaman changes

Post by Tilsair » Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:45 am

I like most changes to shaman, but as others said, the enhancement changes are pretty underwhelming. I think enha shaman desperately needs some mana sustain, does not necessarily need to be Shamanistic Rage like in TBC, but some new talent would be cool to have. I also think he should be given dual wield, to boost up his dps a fair bit. I don't want to sound like a TBC andy but my opinion is that TBC did a lot of things right regarding enhancement and it's playstyle.

Geojak
Posts: 207

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Geojak » Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:07 pm

I am bit bit concerned shamans get overly tanky with these talent changes and ever more of a nightmare for alliance warriors
Msg

Chnams
Posts: 12

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Chnams » Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:45 pm

Geojak wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:41 am
Hello, I and many paladins are concerned by the current crusader strike proposal.

For me, paladins are the one class, where you don't spamm on global cooldown something at all times. If crusader strike got no CD, then this heavily goes in contradiction to what makes a vanilla paladin for me atleast.

Secondly, in vanilla, paladins got judgment of the crusader to boost holy damage. Now crusader strike will compete with the vanilla design. Why mess with what's not broken?

Others have mentioned the problem of extra debuff slot taken and it not stacking with each other.

Can we pls just find a way to introdu e the spell without altering vanilla paladins in unecesary ways?

For example give the spell a 6 sec CD atleast, and have it give a stacking buff on the paladin instead.

It would clearly differiate the two.
Judgment of crusader is on one target and immideitly St full strength.
Crusader strike buff would be on the paladin on Therefor not bound to one target, but it also needs time to ramp up 5 stacks with a 6 sec CD on the strike itself.

I would rather have no crusader strike at all than one that is in conflict with the vanilla paladins original way of playing

The current seal of crusader is only used ever for the judgment. Now with crusader strike, paladins might op to not even train the seal at all. Seal of crusader should give holy damage boost additionally to AP, then prots than use it to boost the consecration and holy to boost holy shock but cant use it to boost judgmenent damage of SoR or Soc.
I'm also concerned by the viability of crusader strike with the current debuff cap, and it'll make seal of the crusader, an already underused spell, even more redundant.I really like this idea of giving it a cd and making it a stackable buff instead of a debuff on the target. Imo it's much better than mindless spamming, which is not what Paladin is about anyway.

Daindain
Posts: 1

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Daindain » Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:58 pm

Hello,

Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this.

I would like to see more class quests or racial quests for each class to further distinguish races within their classes.

With regards to talents, I might consider certain talents changing depending on race? Or something like that.

Thanks again for all the work you do. I love the server

User avatar
Overi
Posts: 3

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Overi » Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:30 pm

Warlock
Pyroclasm (Row 5). Gives your Rain of Fire, Hellfire, *Conflagrate*, and Soul Fire spells a 25% chance to stun the target for 3 sec.

Please, don't! It's too imba in PvP to give Conflagrate 25% stun for 3 sec.
Warlock has a lot of control tools already (seduct, fear, mass fear, death coil), adding stun to Conflag-lock adds too much power, considering stun does not suffer diminishing returns since it's the only stun in warlock arsenal.

I'm not pro-gamer, but I played many BGs as 60 conflag warlock on another private server and class seams very strong already. Just check out my default setup 1v1 vs Warrior if I attack first:
Seduction
Curse of Elements
Soul Fire
Immolate, start casting Seduction - here warrior can intercept me, or somewhat break the combo, it's fine.
CONFLAGRATE - Seduction lands and we continue
Shadowbolt
Death Coil (Succubus starts attacking in melee)
Immolate
Searing Pain
Shadowburn (Conflage still has 4sec CD)
Searing Pain + run away jumping ;)
Conflagrate.

If crits land well, warrior will be dead before the end, if no crits - he will be alive and will kick your ass. Whole chain takes ~18 seconds. Now imagine if one of those Conflagrates will also stun, it's madness! Even simplest combo Seduction + COE + Soulfire + Immolate + Conflagrate + 3_SEC_STUN sounds too strong, especially with 2 attemps to stun (43.75% combined chance).

Just by itself 25% on 3sec stun to 10sec CD spell sounds strong, it's not reliable, but will proc quite often.
Also in the warlock's summary you've said "PvE is the only area where Warlock has an issue" then why give them PvP-buff that has little to no impact on PvE?

User avatar
Sharilyn
Posts: 1

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Sharilyn » Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:51 pm

Rogue, Warrior and Warlock changes look good to me. (Didn't read all classes tho). Would be nice to give mages 1 more arcane dmg spell for people who wanna play full arcane mage... only arcane missiles and arcane explosion is not enough in my opinion.

Mekunekud
Posts: 6

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Mekunekud » Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:42 am

Chnams wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:45 pm

I'm also concerned by the viability of crusader strike with the current debuff cap, and it'll make seal of the crusader, an already underused spell, even more redundant.I really like this idea of giving it a cd and making it a stackable buff instead of a debuff on the target. Imo it's much better than mindless spamming, which is not what Paladin is about anyway.
It's redundant from the get go aside from allowing you a stopgap if you judge wisdom instead of Crusader. Mainly because https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=23203 means SotC gives some 173 holy damage, without counting the 15% from the early ret talent, meaning that the 5 x 30 is worthless if it doesnt stack since it's competing with nearly 200 holy damage from a single libram and basic talent set up.
I like the idea of Crusader Strike but it's a major oversight to the ability unless your intent is to have ret paladins use TWO debuff slots in a raid by judging Light/Wisdom and have them use Crusader Strike to replace SotC.
OFC raids aren't the only situation it can be used but 103 damage and less than stellar buff over an existing talent you'll be taking means it'll be unused. Holy Strike was a nice addition. Crusader Strike not so much.

Edit: Oh and not the mention the 20 JotC holy spell damage boost from the paladin PvP gauntlets.
Last edited by Mekunekud on Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply