Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Hibernate
Posts: 3

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Hibernate » Sat May 07, 2022 1:32 pm

Would it be possible to implement the class changes one class at a time? It seems the entire project is taking much longer than anticipated, so perhaps having one class get their new changes every week or two. This would not only give good faith to the community that the changes are in fact being created after all this time, but also it might tempt players to enjoy a new class while waiting for their main to get the updates.

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Redmagejoe
Posts: 108

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Redmagejoe » Mon May 09, 2022 1:49 am

I strongly encourage reconsidering the lackluster and not-at-all-build-making 30-point Protection Paladin talent, Ardent Crusader. If you want to keep its current behavior, that's fine, but Tankadins have an awful time with mana upkeep. I honestly don't believe even with Redoubt and Holy Shield up, 1% mana back per block is going to be enough to keep you from running dry. Right now, the problem as a Tankadin is choosing between good threat generation, which the class is VERY capable of, and mana upkeep. People act like you're a Warrior tank and go ham within 1 second of a pull, and in order to ensure high threat at the start of a fight, you must burn almost 50% of your mana from full instantly.

I feel that incorporating something like Wrath's Spiritual Attunement would be helpful, making it a Tankadin only talent. Receiving a % of their mana back when being healed would be a great boon. Please seriously consider adding this.
Last edited by Redmagejoe on Mon May 09, 2022 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dharmok
Posts: 2
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Dharmok » Mon May 09, 2022 6:05 pm

I definitely agree with tweaking the classes as they were very lopsided and unfinished in classic.
I also believe strongly what people missed about classic wow was not how unfinished and lopsided everything was, they missed the social aspect; needing other players, having to work together to accomplish things, and having a challenge.
Also people who have a problem with balancing the specs and classes are most likely the ones who would be like "You can't come to this raid because you're the wrong spec/class."

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Projecx
Posts: 22
Location: Pasco Washington. USA.

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Projecx » Tue May 10, 2022 7:25 pm

Dharmok wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 6:05 pm
I definitely agree with tweaking the classes as they were very lopsided and unfinished in classic.
I also believe strongly what people missed about classic wow was not how unfinished and lopsided everything was, they missed the social aspect; needing other players, having to work together to accomplish things, and having a challenge.
Also people who have a problem with balancing the specs and classes are most likely the ones who would be like "You can't come to this raid because you're the wrong spec/class."
Amen!

Pandering the game to the hardcore elitists is one of the things that ruined retail WoW.

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Redmagejoe
Posts: 108

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Redmagejoe » Wed May 11, 2022 1:13 am

I think what you two mean is "purists". And yes, 100% purists of vanilla WoW who refuse to accept class changes should be ignored outright, as they have this misguided belief that even Blizzard debunked that the classes were somehow perfect in balance and not in need of changes. No one with any common sense who has played all of the classes believes that for one moment.

Even by the standards of 2004 when the game was breaking the mold and experimenting, it's clear to anyone with a mind for class balance, player training, and expectations versus capability that some classes are simply not well designed from an objective and universal design philosophy. I say this to pre-empt any potential cries for "just trying to make the game more casual friendly and braindead". If you would like for me to go into explicit detail as to how certain changes are necessary to call a class well-designed and not at all made with the intent to make a class "braindead" to play, I will gladly.

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Allwynd01
Posts: 182

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Allwynd01 » Thu May 12, 2022 6:27 pm

Redmagejoe wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 1:13 am
I think what you two mean is "purists". And yes, 100% purists of vanilla WoW who refuse to accept class changes should be ignored outright, as they have this misguided belief that even Blizzard debunked that the classes were somehow perfect in balance and not in need of changes. No one with any common sense who has played all of the classes believes that for one moment.

Even by the standards of 2004 when the game was breaking the mold and experimenting, it's clear to anyone with a mind for class balance, player training, and expectations versus capability that some classes are simply not well designed from an objective and universal design philosophy. I say this to pre-empt any potential cries for "just trying to make the game more casual friendly and braindead". If you would like for me to go into explicit detail as to how certain changes are necessary to call a class well-designed and not at all made with the intent to make a class "braindead" to play, I will gladly.
When I heard of WoW Classic in 2019, I imagined it to be like what Turtle WoW is now, but that never happened. I also could not understand the purists, who could have always played the "no changes" on private servers if they wanted so much. Now Vanilla WoW Classic is almost abandoned, those who play Classic, play TBC and are gearing towards WoTLK, it's kinda safe to say that Activision's WoW Classic plan was a dud, not that it's bad that it exists, but because many people realized that the old Vanilla just isn't that exciting. I would also play pure Vanilla, but it eventually gets old doing the same thing for like the 681st time and having nothing new to look forward to.

That's why I'm glad that Turtle WoW has all these changes and hopefully we will soon see the class changes release. It's already been 5 months late. They should just release it as it is. I've been away from the game for 5 months already waiting for these changes to happen, it's getting tiresome. xD

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Kantrul
Posts: 4

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Kantrul » Mon May 16, 2022 4:13 pm

Paladin changes are VERY good for prot and holy. The only problem I see is that ret is basically the same. So let's talk about the ret paladin situation in PvE, specifically in raids.

Currently there is no real reason to bring a ret paladin to a raid when you already have 3-4 holy paladins providing all the buffs and blessings necessary.

There is an interview with a vanilla class designer where he talks about the paladin class fantasy and what he would have improved or added to the class in a raid environment.

LINK: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-FFiSj ... =Countdown) min 1:51:01

TLDW: Bring holy in melee range to deal damage and heal, more versatility for prot (already achieved with the changes listed) and more effectiveness for rets.

Maybe bringing holy in melee range and changing completely his playstyle is not the wisest decision because people already know what to expect from that spec. This lead us to the only problem paladins have after these changes, which is, as I already mentioned before, dealing damage AKA retribution paladin.

According to what was said in the interview, paladins were designed to be in melee range doing dps and providing buffs and heals for the raid.

With that in mind, there are 2 routes to change ret paladins to be desirable in raids:

1. Increase ret damage:

This method means that the paladin damage will be significantly higher but not as higher as a
pure melee dps class like rogues or warriors. How do we achieve this?

- Crusader Strike: the ability deals negligible damage, puts a debuff on the
target and doesn't even refresh judgements or proc seals. This is a waste of an ability and it
won't be used in a raid environment because other classes can put better debuffs on bosses.

The ability could be changed to, instead, give the paladin a holy bonus dmg buff OR an
attack speed bonus buff of X% that stacks up to X times. This would make the ability usable
in raids and make paladin dps much better while also giving him a more interesting rotation.
If the ability results in being too powerful for other specs, it could be realocated to be a
final talent for the retribution talent tree.

If there were no changes to Crusader Strike, the talent "Vengeance" could be buffed to be
stackable to a maximun of 3 times, increasing dmg and attack speed by X% per stack.


2. Increase ret utility:

This method aims at keeping the damage and rotation of the paladin the same but providing the group with more mana/healing .

- New talent "Avenging Wrath": The paladin infuses his weapon with holy power for
X seconds, putting a buff on nearby party members that heals them by X% of the damage
dealt by the paladin for the duration while also increasing their mana regeneration by X% (buff doesn't
stack).


The talent will make the ret paladin desirable for raid groups while also fulfilling the class fantasy of dealing damage and healing/buffing allies.

Fidget16
Posts: 1

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Fidget16 » Wed May 18, 2022 1:27 am

Owlkin Frenzy seems very strong.

In PVP this effectively will mean that boomkins are immune to pushback when fighting fury warrs and rogues, since both those classes will be hitting so frequently as to almost certainly constantly refresh the buff.

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Redmagejoe
Posts: 108

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Redmagejoe » Wed May 18, 2022 2:50 am

Fidget16 wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:27 am
Owlkin Frenzy seems very strong.

In PVP this effectively will mean that boomkins are immune to pushback when fighting fury warrs and rogues, since both those classes will be hitting so frequently as to almost certainly constantly refresh the buff.
Unless it's a non-refreshing buff, which isn't mentioned in the description. There are some buffs that have an internal cooldown so as not to refresh during their duration, and it would make sense for this to be one of them.

Patadepalo
Posts: 7

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Patadepalo » Sun May 22, 2022 4:40 pm

Hi all, turtles !
Any date to release 1.16.1 ??

Thanks all

Jesterjacks
Posts: 4

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Jesterjacks » Tue May 24, 2022 11:41 am

Still no release date, still radio silence...

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Allwynd01
Posts: 182

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Allwynd01 » Wed May 25, 2022 9:21 am

Jesterjacks wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 11:41 am
Still no release date, still radio silence...
Damn I'm at my wits' end.

Hibernate
Posts: 3

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Hibernate » Thu May 26, 2022 12:29 am

I fear the release of WotLK classic will pull a lot of people away from Turtle WoW if this class update doesn't come out. People like shiny changes and will go where the "new thing" is.

Garish
Posts: 28

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Garish » Thu May 26, 2022 4:31 pm

Hibernate wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:29 am
I fear the release of WotLK classic will pull a lot of people away from Turtle WoW if this class update doesn't come out. People like shiny changes and will go where the "new thing" is.
they will come back at the end of the expansion anyways, WotLK core is trash.

Frankthepen
Posts: 1

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Frankthepen » Sat May 28, 2022 4:28 pm

I mean I would like at least some sort of official announcement about it. I know they're working on it but man does it feel bad to be stuck in this 'soonTM' limbo.

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Allwynd01
Posts: 182

Re: Final Changelog for Class Changes coming in 1.16.1

Post by Allwynd01 » Sun May 29, 2022 7:33 am

Hibernate wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:29 am
I fear the release of WotLK classic will pull a lot of people away from Turtle WoW if this class update doesn't come out. People like shiny changes and will go where the "new thing" is.
Really?

When I was excited about Activision Vanilla in 2019, it was before Turtle WoW had any real gameplay changes and I was hoping that Activision Vanilla would do what Turtle WoW is doing right now - new zones and quest content, class changes, new races, etc. But Activision Vanilla was a disappointment - it was a lazy attempt to milk nostalgia and fight private servers - "IF YOU CAN'T SHUT THEM ALL DOWN - JOIN THEM.". They made no additional changes, only some small QoL adjustments that are too insignificant to even speak of.

Activision TBC was the same crap.

Activision WoTLK will be the same crap.

Do you really think that people who consciously play on Turtle WoW, as opposed to any other Vanilla private server or any other WoW version private server really care about Activision WoTLK? People are here, because they want to play Vanilla WoW with a twist. There are plenty of Blizzlike Vanilla, TBC and WoTLK private servers out there, yet a certain amount of people choose to play here. Activision WoTLK won't really change that.

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