Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

[Mrkrissatan]

piggybacking on thread to vote for dwarf shaman

Then there should be undead paladins, if it's lore breaking somehow for someone's head cannon then just give them a passive ability that changes all holy magic into shadow or something

[Balake]

I think the point of disagreement here on whether the hunter class in WoW is inherently naturalist or just a generic bow/crossbow/gun user that can train pets. The character creation screen describes it as follows: "Hunters know the uncharted places of the world. Gifted with a deep empathy for all life, they have an uncanny knack for befriending wild animals and taming them as pets. In addition, hunters can use their finely honed senses to become master trackers. Wherever hunters go, they fight back the ravages of sickness, exploitation, and industrialization."

The description seems to single them out. Undead obviously don't have a deep sympathy for life, quite the opposite in fact. And humans in WoW just don't seem like outdoorsy people to be honest.

There are definitely proficient sharpshooters in Stormwind's and Undercity's military forces, and humans (dead or alive) surely can tame wild animals if they wanted to, but that still doesn't make them connected to nature in the same way Night Elves, Tauren, Trolls, Orcs, and Dwarves are.

To be fair, Gnomes hunters don't fit either but that's already been added, so what does this mean? Blizzard not adding Human, Forsaken, and Gnome hunters was a deliberate decision because they didn't fit what Blizzard had in mind for the hunter class. It has nothing to do with the 6 class limit. I personally believe Turtle WoW shouldn't stringently restrict themselves to Blizzard's vision. It's fine to broaden the identity of hunters a little bit and allow races without an affinity to nature to play the class. Editing the creation screen description to cement this change would be a nice touch if that's possible, if not then it's not a big deal.

No undead paladins though

[Qixel]

The issue most people seem to have is deciding that each race is a hivemind who can't possibly have members that go against cultural norms. So, going off the character creation screen, 'a typical warrior is strong, tough, and exceptionally violent'.* Gnomes warriors cannot exist because they trend toward friendly. Warlocks are 'feared above all else for their singular wickedness and cruelty'. Again, guess we can't have gnome warlocks, putting aside for the moment that everyone except the token evil forsaken would have you killed on sight for fel magic. For paladins, they make mention of how it's lorewise human-only but they decided to let some dwarfs in. No mention of high elves, gotta get rid of them, too. On the hunter topic, 'Wherever hunters go, they fight back the ravages of sickness, exploitation, and industrialization. Guess the industrial themed dwarves gotta go.

Server's down, but I'll continue. Undead priests should be unable to call upon holy magic, given they're damned. Better scrap them. Druids are a male night elf only thing, lorewise. Scrap all female night elf druids, and all tauren druids - Cenarius only trained night elf men. Male night elves are not able to be priests - in night elf society, only women can become priestesses of Elune.

Blizzard did not care. Stop pretending they did. If you can't, just do what Blizzard did and change things until they work like dwarf paladins and non-male-night-elf druids.

[Torta]

Thanks everyone for contributing to this poll. Based on the feedback, we've made a decision to add both new class/race combos: Dwarf Mages and Undead Hunters in the upcoming client update.

[Netbeck]

I am just wondering what took so long to think about playable undead hunters.
Go for it.

[Allwynd01]

I would like to mention that if Undeads have Hunters, Humans should also have them, but I sadly understand that there can not be more than 6 classes / race, which is pretty sad.

I agree on this - Humans should also have a Hunter, in fact almost every race should have it as they need to eat and not everyone is a farmer.

Also I think that Hunters' Survival talent tree should get more attention with more attention on melee - like 1-2 more active melee abilities, as well as ones like Wing Clip and Raptor Strike, as well as melee auto attack dealing improved damage.

Of course, certainly not to the point where Survival becomes OP, but to a point where it's actually fun and different and somewhat viable.

So I vote YES on Forsaken Hunters as long as Humans get Hunters as well.

[Torta]

So I vote YES on Forsaken Hunters as long as Humans get Hunters as well.

As much as I personally would like it, we don't really have space in the client UI for it. Human already has 6 classes.

[Allwynd01]

So I vote YES on Forsaken Hunters as long as Humans get Hunters as well.

As much as I personally would like it, we don't really have space in the client UI for it. Human already has 6 classes.

Can't that limitation be bypassed in some way? Like class buttons made smaller or replaced with a drop down menu.

You already expanded the UI to feature two more buttons for additional races.

I don't know how possible it is, but there can be implemented some system in the game where each character can talk to an NPC in the game and change their class to a different one, of course with some lore limitations.

For example you want to be a Human Hunter, you talk to some NPC in some city like Booty Bay and tell them you don't want to be a Human Mage anymore, but a Human Hunter instead. So the NPC gives you a short set of kill and fetch quests related to the class you are switching to:

- Hunter is about killing deadly beats, collecting trophies or taming pets
- Mage is about killing aggressive elementals, collecting rare artifacts
- Warlock is about taming demons, killing demons, collecting demonic artifacts
- Warrior is about killing soldiers, bandits, collecting some weapons or whatever..

you get the idea...

[Gheor]

So I vote YES on Forsaken Hunters as long as Humans get Hunters as well.

As much as I personally would like it, we don't really have space in the client UI for it. Human already has 6 classes.

Can't that limitation be bypassed in some way? Like class buttons made smaller or replaced with a drop down menu.

You already expanded the UI to feature two more buttons for additional races.

I don't know how possible it is, but there can be implemented some system in the game where each character can talk to an NPC in the game and change their class to a different one, of course with some lore limitations.

For example you want to be a Human Hunter, you talk to some NPC in some city like Booty Bay and tell them you don't want to be a Human Mage anymore, but a Human Hunter instead. So the NPC gives you a short set of kill and fetch quests related to the class you are switching to:

- Hunter is about killing deadly beats, collecting trophies or taming pets
- Mage is about killing aggressive elementals, collecting rare artifacts
- Warlock is about taming demons, killing demons, collecting demonic artifacts
- Warrior is about killing soldiers, bandits, collecting some weapons or whatever..

you get the idea...

We didn't figure out how to do it yet.
Human Hunters will definitely come in the future as soon as break the barrier.

[Allwynd01]

We didn't figure out how to do it yet.
Human Hunters will definitely come in the future as soon as break the barrier.

That is certainly good to know.

[Tortuga]

Great idea with class change via a NPC!
But it would be better to place these NPCs right in the starting zone, and allow class change at level 1 only, to avoid complications like: char buys the initial class spells, armor..., then it's necessary to clean all the stuff from DB. Less headache is not to let the initial class evolve a lot.

Besides this opens the gates of hell, as if this succeeds, people will start suggest to implement custom classes (dark rangers, demon hunters...) and that's a helluva work I think (though they can be TP-only)

[Unangwata]

I voted YES.
I don't see problem with lore since many humans were hunters before plague. So they could just pick up old profession.

[Zhohan]

Undead hunters are fine if human hunters are added as well.

[Gheor]

Undead hunters are fine if human hunters are added as well.

As soon as we break the limit for just 6 classes in the character creation panel.

[Annales]

I'm afraid this will change the vanilla experience to some disney world/ fan club service server.

[Mrkrissatan]

I'm afraid this will change the vanilla experience to some disney world/ fan club service server.

There are plenty of stock vanilla servers this is a vanilla+ server with extra features

[Sturrnurr]

i like the idea of an undead ranger, like the banshee queen.

[Boaz]

Yes ^

[Havock]

I've always felt that hunter should be universal like warrior for all races.

[Havock]

Voted "yes". The only "lore" counterargument I could think of is that pets/animals are unlikely to want to hang out with the undead. But this counterargument seems weak to me - surely plenty of meals, scratches, and "good boys" will eventually make your pet loyal! With that counterargument dispensed with, undead hunters seem like a natural addition (and, as other have pointed out, undead rangers are well-established in lore), so a "yes" vote seems appropriate.

What if undead hunters could only tame diseased or demonic mobs? There are plenty of them in the undead zones. There are the Plagued Swine and Plaguehounds of Eastern Plaguelands. There are Darkhounds in Trisfal Glades, as well as spiders that would likely become undead pets.

[Sandtusk]

I've always felt that hunter should be universal like warrior for all races.

I’d say any class that doesn’t heavily use magic is fair game for all races...*stares Grimtotem rogues*

[Entish]

To be honest I am all for it!

Let us have different varieties and experience Vanilla as never before.

Keep up the good work, fellas!

[Unangwata]

When can we expect the update ?

[Lichenwitch]

i love this addition. i'd also like to add this to the discussion; just because undead can do something doesn't mean humans NEED to be able to do it/have done it as well. people seem to forget the vast cultural differences that currently exist in forsaken society versus human.

in my mind, it is not a far stretch of the imagination to picture some poor undead, who has found themself outcast, forsaken, and alone, learning new tricks to survive in the wild as well as help ensure the well-being of their people. perhaps, even learning a new kinship with the wild, cruel, savage animals that also often have to fend for themsleves as well.

to me, this has always made perfect sense and been something i have wanted for a long time. the potential connection to the idea of a dark ranger is an added bonus for me as well.

[Skara]

I am definitely against the introduction of undead hunters. In my opinion, the introduction of class extensions brings the balance even more apart.
Otherwise I would like there to get undead shamans who can use 2h swords !

blizzard must have thought a lot when it only assigned certain classes to a certain race.
softening this system in such a way falsifies the game in a monstrous way. Why can't you just keep the original race classes? the game on turtle is already quite extended anyway, why do such changes have to be added unnecessarily? that can never be in the spirit and purpose of vanilla

take a step further and introduce the blood elves and paladins on the Horde side to follow in the footsteps of 2.4.3 - then only the "pling" is missing and we are all on the Hell Peninsula

my 5ct

avowed shaman and
avowed undead

[Unangwata]

I am definitely against the introduction of undead hunters. In my opinion, the introduction of class extensions brings the balance even more apart.
Otherwise I would like there to get undead shamans who can use 2h swords !

blizzard must have thought a lot when it only assigned certain classes to a certain race.
softening this system in such a way falsifies the game in a monstrous way. Why can't you just keep the original race classes? the game on turtle is already quite extended anyway, why do such changes have to be added unnecessarily? that can never be in the spirit and purpose of vanilla

take a step further and introduce the blood elves and paladins on the Horde side to follow in the footsteps of 2.4.3 - then only the "pling" is missing and we are all on the Hell Peninsula

my 5ct

avowed shaman and
avowed undead

What balance are you talking about...lol ?

[Unangwata]

We getting hunter this year or next ? Two ? Poll is clearly winning.

[Fin]

Undead hunters will be available with the release of 1.15.2.

[Borzy]

I know I’m a little late to the party, and it’s all been decided and work done for it etc, but I just can’t make sense of undead hunter.

So now every race in horde can be hunters? I don’t feel like that’s adding more flavor to the game.

Outside of warriors being ubiquitous, the flavor of races was that every class was limited to certain races.

I think what would’ve added more flavor to the game would be something more in-line with that design concept. And I’m aware many don’t agree, but crossing paladin and shamans across factions would have added that level of uniqueness and separation of classes and races. And it also would expand the game in a way to let people really play according to their desire; if you want to be shaman or pally, you’re no longer locked to a faction, while maintaining uniqueness.

So for example, if you want to be Druid, you have to be NE or Tauren. If you want to be horde pally, undead or troll. If you want to be alliance shaman, dwarves or NE. These choices target races that, as is, otherwise have limited class choices.

And lore wise, you can write the lore for anything really…

[Lahire]

I really dislike the class homogenization from TBC (pal and sham for everybody). And with the glyph of diplomacy, any group can already have a pal and a sham. So I really don't see why doing even more homogenization.

I agreed with your first few paragraphs though. You said you were against ubiquitous classes (so : homogenization). But after that, you ask for... more ubiquity for classes across factions. :|

[Borzy]

I’m not talking so much about being anti-homogenization. The point I was making was more-so about player choice.

If Turtle Wow added no new race/class combinations, I’d be fine with that. If they were going to add more, making it so every horde race can play hunter seems pointless.

There was already a point made earlier about each race only being able to fill 6 classes, because of the way character selection screen is laid out. As it stands now, hunter would fill that 6th slot for undead and lock it.

My point was that for the last undead slot, it would be more interesting to add something more akin to the philosophy of “only NE can be alliance druids”.

To give context: a thought had occurred to me and I was interested to see what rolling shooting/bow animation would look like on undead. So I went to roll undead hunter because I knew enough to know it’s a thing on Turtlewow. Of course was then reminded it’s next patch when I couldn’t, and so decided to see what other race/class combos there are, to then notice that every horde race can already be hunters. So as someone who was curious about undead hunters, realizing that immediately make me think it was a bad idea. Hell, an undead shaman would’ve been more interesting than having another hunter… barring that undead shaman makes no sense. Undead paladins make more sense than undead hunters.

[Destruyearepas]

Late to the party and enjoying my undead hunter already! Thank you a ton for this addition to the game!

I really know some people pout about lore and stuff, but sometimes, I think FUN> any lore and undead hunters are actually that.

So thank you for the addition! Honestly after this many decades there should be more races open to more classes!

I would love a goblin druid myself, as goblins are my main appeal and reason to try Turtle Wow 8)

Keep up the good work!