Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Poll: Should we implement Undead Hunters in 1.15.2?

Yes
113
84%
No
21
16%
 
Total votes: 134

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Torta
Posts: 742

Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Torta » Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:20 am

Greetings!

We plan to re-introduce Dwarf Mages in game in the upcoming 1.15.2 update. As a Horde counterpart to them, we could add Undead Hunters. However, it's a controversial idea, since it's hard to make them fit to the Vanilla Lore and many would disagree that they should exist. Hence we've decided to ask our players prior making this happen or scrapping the idea all together.

Please, keep in mind, that silent voting for poll won't be taken on the account, please write a reply why you voted one way or another. The other possible race / class combo which we think would be a good one are Troll Warlocks, but sadly this race already have 6 classes available. So, if you have a new race / class combo proposal, please check if race has a free slot.

Thank you!

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Derikom
Posts: 11

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Derikom » Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:26 am

It makes sense less from the "beast master" angle and more from the "ranger" angle, I mean their leader was the Ranger-General of Quel'thalas and their faction's champion was the only human (like the playable Forsaken!) to ever join the Farstriders and make it up to Ranger Lord. I would go so far as to argue that Forsaken hunters make more sense than Gnome hunters, which were already added.

Also troll warlock is still my dream character so if you do find a way to make it happen expect my undying devotion. ;)

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Tikithekitty
Posts: 1

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Tikithekitty » Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:30 am

Derikom wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:26 am
It makes sense less from the "beast master" angle and more from the "ranger" angle, I mean their leader was the Ranger-General of Quel'thalas and their faction's champion was the only human (like the playable Forsaken!) to ever join the Farstriders and make it up to Ranger Lord. I would go so far as to argue that Forsaken hunters make more sense than Gnome hunters, which were already added.

Also troll warlock is still my dream character so if you do find a way to make it happen expect my undying devotion. ;)
satisfied_turtle_head i agree to that and imo even if you don't think that's true they were with orcs and trolls for a while "teamed" up to take on arthas :P it would seem unwise of them to not share tricks with each other

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Ramue
Posts: 10

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Ramue » Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:32 am

Don't think they make any less sense then gnome hunters. And considering their faction leaders are Slyvanas and Nathanos who are both froesaken "hunters" (more rangers but close enough) it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility at all imo.

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Boccaccio
Posts: 2

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Boccaccio » Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:48 am

"You know, us goblins don’t exactly “get along” with nature, know what I mean? <Viz winks slyly to you.> I’m gonna teach you how a goblin tames a pet. The right way. Take this rod. It has a special collar that I call the “Friend Request”. You put this around their neck and you're done, get me? They’ll be yours forever." -Viz Fizbeast

Like goblins, you could say forsaken don't make sence as beast masters / friends. What a forsaken hunter is could be explained by a trainer just like Viz Fizbeast does.

Axoc
Posts: 69

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Axoc » Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:05 am

Turtle WoW additions are modeled after Warcraft 3 lore. Undead was the only faction in WC3 to have a "Hunter" style Hero Unit, the Dark Ranger. Others have mentioned Sylvanas & Nathanos, but there were nearly a dozen other Dark Rangers in WC3 that were mentioned by name.

Undercity is a fledgling nation that is fighting a two-front war (Alliance & Scarlets) while struggling to deal with multiple issues and power struggles within its own borders. Nations and armies in this situation typically use highly mobile recce troops that can be quickly moved to face threats at short notice.

We see this in-game with Orgrimmar, which is also a fledgling nation struggling to survive in an inhospitable area while struggling to deal with internal power struggles and plots. Orgrimmar uses the Warsong Outriders and Rexxar to provide this service. We also saw it in-universe in Warcraft 3 with the Quel'thalas rangers conducting these types of missions to try to defend against Arthas. Undercity just...doesn't have anyone to conduct those types of missions, which is a plot hole. This is a plot hole because Sylvanas and Nathanos are both aware of what services the Q'T rangers provided to the defense of Q'T. Sylvanas literally does it herself during the Warcraft 3 "Fall of Quel'thalas" arc. Sylvanas was the leader of the Q'T Rangers and so she should be able to train a new order of rangers in service to Undercity.

Further evidence is that Undercity never abandons its Lordaeron/Quel'thalas heritage. The symbol of Undercity is a misshapen Lordaeron crest just like how the vast majority of Undercity citizens are now misshapen citizens of Lordaeron. The clothing styles of Undercity are torn and shredded versions of human clothing, just like how the citizens of Undercity are torn and shredded versions of their human selves, etc. Why would they abandon only one specific aspect of their heritage and maintain the rest of their culture? If they chose to abandon one specific thing, why would they abandon arguably the most important tool they have to secure their borders and defend their country from invasion?

It feels more like a "Blizzard ran out of time" issue than an actual lore issue.

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Gheor
Posts: 211

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Gheor » Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:40 am

Boccaccio wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:48 am
"You know, us goblins don’t exactly “get along” with nature, know what I mean? <Viz winks slyly to you.> I’m gonna teach you how a goblin tames a pet. The right way. Take this rod. It has a special collar that I call the “Friend Request”. You put this around their neck and you're done, get me? They’ll be yours forever." -Viz Fizbeast

Like goblins, you could say forsaken don't make sence as beast masters / friends. What a forsaken hunter is could be explained by a trainer just like Viz Fizbeast does.
Glad that made some sense..
I always felt wierd about writing that.
A sheet of paper and a pen can give birth to many things.

Gheor

Kratos

Kott
Posts: 2

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Kott » Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:45 am

It is very sad, that we are going to waste an opportunity to get a new race class combination for the horde on that. Orcs and taurens or even goblin could get something, that would be neat, but no, thank you very much.
At least from the point of "mage for hunter" it looks fair.

Rayform
Posts: 9

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Rayform » Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:05 am

Please do implement them! I'm a huge advocate for adding new race-class combos of any kind. Being a RP server, I think it's important for people to be able to express themselves in that way; you guys did a fantastic job justifying both Orc mages and Gnome hunters, so I strongly believe you can justify forsaken hunters too. Fallen rangers sharing their knowledge to strengthen the Forsaken forces would be awesome.

Gnarbrok
Posts: 12

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Gnarbrok » Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:27 am

Voted "yes". The only "lore" counterargument I could think of is that pets/animals are unlikely to want to hang out with the undead. But this counterargument seems weak to me - surely plenty of meals, scratches, and "good boys" will eventually make your pet loyal! With that counterargument dispensed with, undead hunters seem like a natural addition (and, as other have pointed out, undead rangers are well-established in lore), so a "yes" vote seems appropriate.

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Torta
Posts: 742

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Torta » Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:08 pm

Kott wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:45 am
It is very sad, that we are going to waste an opportunity to get a new race class combination for the horde on that. Orcs and taurens or even goblin could get something, that would be neat, but no, thank you very much.
At least from the point of "mage for hunter" it looks fair.
Orcs already got Mages in 1.15.0. Taurens are pretty limited in what they could do. I personally cannot imagine Tauren Priests or Rogues?

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Mrkrissatan
Posts: 181

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Mrkrissatan » Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:16 pm

I voted yes because I'd play one and I've never played a hunter before, at least not before wrath when the ammo and happiness mechanics where changed.

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Mrkrissatan
Posts: 181

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Mrkrissatan » Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:32 pm

Torta wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:08 pm
Kott wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:45 am
It is very sad, that we are going to waste an opportunity to get a new race class combination for the horde on that. Orcs and taurens or even goblin could get something, that would be neat, but no, thank you very much.
At least from the point of "mage for hunter" it looks fair.
Orcs already got Mages in 1.15.0. Taurens are pretty limited in what they could do. I personally cannot imagine Tauren Priests or Rogues?
Make the meme real, I want to make a Tauren rogue called Invisibull lol

Tortuga
Posts: 76
Location: CET (ST+1)

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Tortuga » Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:35 pm

NO
1. The undead classes reflect those of humans (minus pallies, for obvious dead_turtle_head reason). So while there's no human hunters, there's no reason for undead hunters to exist.
2. Appeals to Dark Rangers: irrelevant, Dark Rangers are rare, sort of an elite class / hero units, not a something one meets every day.
3. Illogical to common sense. No animal will be loyal to a half-rotten body, no matter if that body moves and hisses.
4. "But they could learn from the Orcs!", yes, and they could also learn to be shamans or druids, why not, right? Hunters, as well as druids and shamans, are all about the nature, and here we have a race of unnatural abominations after all. The only natural way for them is to rot and decay, not attract animals with their rotten smell.

Totalmxo
Posts: 5

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Totalmxo » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:46 pm

Like others have said, Nathanos and sylvanas are both rangers, so in my opinion, it makes way more sense than gnome hunters. I also always like having more choices and more customization! Also a lot of arguments I’m seeing that are against this are using logical fallacies to prove their point lol.

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Qixel
Posts: 147

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Qixel » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:12 pm

I continue to vouch for the complete opening of all classes for all races. Blizzard didn't care about the lore when deciding them, and neither should we. So, yes, undead hunters would be great. For those saying it makes no sense, gnomes can be warriors and hold back the blows of dragons, orcs can be in tune with the elements of a world they tried to destroy, and undead can already be priests. It's a fantasy game. Stop being hypocritical about when sense matters.

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Torta
Posts: 742

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Torta » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:24 pm

Qixel wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:12 pm
I continue to vouch for the complete opening of all classes for all races. Blizzard didn't care about the lore when deciding them, and neither should we. So, yes, undead hunters would be great. For those saying it makes no sense, gnomes can be warriors and hold back the blows of dragons, orcs can be in tune with the elements of a world they tried to destroy, and undead can already be priests. It's a fantasy game. Stop being hypocritical about when sense matters.
I agree that even existing class / race combos are not perfect. Lore consistency is a good thing but in this case it makes no sense to think what's possible and what's not. We have Undead Holy Priests already, you know.

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Mrkrissatan
Posts: 181

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Mrkrissatan » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:45 pm

+1 for all race all class

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Qixel
Posts: 147

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Qixel » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:56 pm

I imagine a limiting factor would be expanding the class selection beyond 6, just from a technical standpoint, but lorewise there's no issue. <3 We have non-male-ight-elf druids, we have undead priests, we have orc warlocks. Every argument is more or less defeated by the existence of those three (how did they learn, how is it possible, how is it tolerated?), so it's fine. <3

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Grayhammer
Posts: 2

Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?

Post by Grayhammer » Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:26 pm

I think Undead hunters have a right to exist, I would however edit them to be dark rangers and allow them to have their class-Race, and possibly adding another to ally to further diversify the factions.

Just something to consider. (Or simply have the pets all take undead form/models)
It's Cathlanna!

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