Will not happen
Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
- Augustfenix85
- Posts: 84
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Lorewise there are Forsaken who were once High Elves.
Duvall 60 Hunter
Velissa 35 Priest
Calmore 60 Shaman Tank
Malcore 45 Warlock
Splodax 28 Rogue
Ghostbc 40 Paladin
Hanami 60 Druid
Reidobosu 34 Warrior
Velissa 35 Priest
Calmore 60 Shaman Tank
Malcore 45 Warlock
Splodax 28 Rogue
Ghostbc 40 Paladin
Hanami 60 Druid
Reidobosu 34 Warrior
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
What engie saidQixel wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:12 pmI continue to vouch for the complete opening of all classes for all races. Blizzard didn't care about the lore when deciding them, and neither should we. So, yes, undead hunters would be great. For those saying it makes no sense, gnomes can be warriors and hold back the blows of dragons, orcs can be in tune with the elements of a world they tried to destroy, and undead can already be priests. It's a fantasy game. Stop being hypocritical about when sense matters.
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of Gifted."
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Undead hunters only if they can build their pets from limbs, skins, and bones!
- Warwarlock
- Posts: 1
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
A lot of people mess around between the mechanics and lore. Lore-wise, many things seem to have their logic; nothing prevents one to become something known as a paradox or a freethinker that defies his own culture. The problem with this, however, is making the writing appealing. Then the mechanics follow with their implies in the game. Humans already have 6 classes, and each side has its class balance - no paladins for the Horde and no shamans for the Alliance.
Speaking in general about the undead, there is nothing that would prevent them to become hunters. Some people sought to claim that to be a hunter, one must have an affinity for nature and beasts.
According to Ranger Sallina in TBC, being a hunter means:
1) to be a master over the beasts;
2) to be perceptive and focused in marksmanship;
3) to be able to survive using the opportunities in situations.
That's one of the perceptions told by an NPC. Mastery over the beasts doesn't exactly incline that now to be a hunter, you must know every inch of Petopia - from a worm to a silithid colossus. It's enough to have some proficiency in the field, and the Forsaken (just as the humans) aren't outside that aspect. In life, the undead had the knowledge on how to tame beasts like horses to their service. As explained in "War Crimes" and skeletal horse manuals, it's told that the aspect of the beast doesn't nearly change in undeath; they continue to follow their routine while being completely oblivious to their nature. We know from real-life stories that loyal pets remain with their owners even if they have passed away. Spiders have no feature that would make them repulsed by the undead as most of the spider population was altered by magic the way the dark hounds were. Plus, cockroaches, anyone?
In life, humans wielded (and still wield) ranged weapons like bows and crossbows, having the proficiency on using them, and in undeath that proficiency would remain. Hemet Nesingwary is a famous hunter who hunts for sports and has the knowledge about the "big games" that would bring inspiration to many bounty hunters, and he's just a dwarf armed with a gun!
The last hunter aspect about the survival would also apply; human trappers that are experienced in tracking certain creatures and use trapping methods to disable them? A hunter who uses a camouflage, a moment of surprise and venoms to overpower their stunned prey?
In conclusion, to be a hunter, you don't necessarily need the magic to become a proficient tamer, skilled shooter, witty trapper lore-wise. Those 3 tree hunter builds just represent one of the hunter aspects. The magic can be applied like in DnD to eventually amplify skills and become something like a spellbow that shoots conjured bolts of magic. The only barrier is the mechanics, and if this server can bypass such, I say 'let them do so'.
Speaking in general about the undead, there is nothing that would prevent them to become hunters. Some people sought to claim that to be a hunter, one must have an affinity for nature and beasts.
According to Ranger Sallina in TBC, being a hunter means:
1) to be a master over the beasts;
2) to be perceptive and focused in marksmanship;
3) to be able to survive using the opportunities in situations.
That's one of the perceptions told by an NPC. Mastery over the beasts doesn't exactly incline that now to be a hunter, you must know every inch of Petopia - from a worm to a silithid colossus. It's enough to have some proficiency in the field, and the Forsaken (just as the humans) aren't outside that aspect. In life, the undead had the knowledge on how to tame beasts like horses to their service. As explained in "War Crimes" and skeletal horse manuals, it's told that the aspect of the beast doesn't nearly change in undeath; they continue to follow their routine while being completely oblivious to their nature. We know from real-life stories that loyal pets remain with their owners even if they have passed away. Spiders have no feature that would make them repulsed by the undead as most of the spider population was altered by magic the way the dark hounds were. Plus, cockroaches, anyone?
In life, humans wielded (and still wield) ranged weapons like bows and crossbows, having the proficiency on using them, and in undeath that proficiency would remain. Hemet Nesingwary is a famous hunter who hunts for sports and has the knowledge about the "big games" that would bring inspiration to many bounty hunters, and he's just a dwarf armed with a gun!
The last hunter aspect about the survival would also apply; human trappers that are experienced in tracking certain creatures and use trapping methods to disable them? A hunter who uses a camouflage, a moment of surprise and venoms to overpower their stunned prey?
In conclusion, to be a hunter, you don't necessarily need the magic to become a proficient tamer, skilled shooter, witty trapper lore-wise. Those 3 tree hunter builds just represent one of the hunter aspects. The magic can be applied like in DnD to eventually amplify skills and become something like a spellbow that shoots conjured bolts of magic. The only barrier is the mechanics, and if this server can bypass such, I say 'let them do so'.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I would have to say no, even if I like the idea of playing one.
It just does not fit the lore well enough with what the class hunter can do. Hunter is quite nature oriented in-game and it just does not feel right.. For me, It would have to be a completely different subclass like the dark ranger, not the hunter we know from vanilla wow.
Mage dwarf seems fine, you do not have to add anything to the Horde side when it is not suitable - I play Horde.
Best,
PV
It just does not fit the lore well enough with what the class hunter can do. Hunter is quite nature oriented in-game and it just does not feel right.. For me, It would have to be a completely different subclass like the dark ranger, not the hunter we know from vanilla wow.
Mage dwarf seems fine, you do not have to add anything to the Horde side when it is not suitable - I play Horde.
Best,
PV
- Merikkinon
- Posts: 409
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Idk... while there is this 'nature' theme to hunters, there have historically also been a lot of poachers and people who are flat out into slaying stuff. I think undead fits well there with their desire to destroy the living.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
And those people were called thieves and assassins historically, not marksmen, beastmasters, or survivalistsMerikkinon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:11 pmthere have historically also been a lot of poachers and people who are flat out into slaying stuff
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
piggybacking on thread to vote for dwarf shaman
Resident Paladin Expert
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I think the point of disagreement here on whether the hunter class in WoW is inherently naturalist or just a generic bow/crossbow/gun user that can train pets. The character creation screen describes it as follows: "Hunters know the uncharted places of the world. Gifted with a deep empathy for all life, they have an uncanny knack for befriending wild animals and taming them as pets. In addition, hunters can use their finely honed senses to become master trackers. Wherever hunters go, they fight back the ravages of sickness, exploitation, and industrialization."
The description seems to single them out. Undead obviously don't have a deep sympathy for life, quite the opposite in fact. And humans in WoW just don't seem like outdoorsy people to be honest.
There are definitely proficient sharpshooters in Stormwind's and Undercity's military forces, and humans (dead or alive) surely can tame wild animals if they wanted to, but that still doesn't make them connected to nature in the same way Night Elves, Tauren, Trolls, Orcs, and Dwarves are.
To be fair, Gnomes hunters don't fit either but that's already been added, so what does this mean? Blizzard not adding Human, Forsaken, and Gnome hunters was a deliberate decision because they didn't fit what Blizzard had in mind for the hunter class. It has nothing to do with the 6 class limit. I personally believe Turtle WoW shouldn't stringently restrict themselves to Blizzard's vision. It's fine to broaden the identity of hunters a little bit and allow races without an affinity to nature to play the class. Editing the creation screen description to cement this change would be a nice touch if that's possible, if not then it's not a big deal.
No undead paladins though
The description seems to single them out. Undead obviously don't have a deep sympathy for life, quite the opposite in fact. And humans in WoW just don't seem like outdoorsy people to be honest.
There are definitely proficient sharpshooters in Stormwind's and Undercity's military forces, and humans (dead or alive) surely can tame wild animals if they wanted to, but that still doesn't make them connected to nature in the same way Night Elves, Tauren, Trolls, Orcs, and Dwarves are.
To be fair, Gnomes hunters don't fit either but that's already been added, so what does this mean? Blizzard not adding Human, Forsaken, and Gnome hunters was a deliberate decision because they didn't fit what Blizzard had in mind for the hunter class. It has nothing to do with the 6 class limit. I personally believe Turtle WoW shouldn't stringently restrict themselves to Blizzard's vision. It's fine to broaden the identity of hunters a little bit and allow races without an affinity to nature to play the class. Editing the creation screen description to cement this change would be a nice touch if that's possible, if not then it's not a big deal.
No undead paladins though
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
The issue most people seem to have is deciding that each race is a hivemind who can't possibly have members that go against cultural norms. So, going off the character creation screen, 'a typical warrior is strong, tough, and exceptionally violent'.* Gnomes warriors cannot exist because they trend toward friendly. Warlocks are 'feared above all else for their singular wickedness and cruelty'. Again, guess we can't have gnome warlocks, putting aside for the moment that everyone except the token evil forsaken would have you killed on sight for fel magic. For paladins, they make mention of how it's lorewise human-only but they decided to let some dwarfs in. No mention of high elves, gotta get rid of them, too. On the hunter topic, 'Wherever hunters go, they fight back the ravages of sickness, exploitation, and industrialization. Guess the industrial themed dwarves gotta go.
Server's down, but I'll continue. Undead priests should be unable to call upon holy magic, given they're damned. Better scrap them. Druids are a male night elf only thing, lorewise. Scrap all female night elf druids, and all tauren druids - Cenarius only trained night elf men. Male night elves are not able to be priests - in night elf society, only women can become priestesses of Elune.
Blizzard did not care. Stop pretending they did. If you can't, just do what Blizzard did and change things until they work like dwarf paladins and non-male-night-elf druids.
Server's down, but I'll continue. Undead priests should be unable to call upon holy magic, given they're damned. Better scrap them. Druids are a male night elf only thing, lorewise. Scrap all female night elf druids, and all tauren druids - Cenarius only trained night elf men. Male night elves are not able to be priests - in night elf society, only women can become priestesses of Elune.
Blizzard did not care. Stop pretending they did. If you can't, just do what Blizzard did and change things until they work like dwarf paladins and non-male-night-elf druids.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Thanks everyone for contributing to this poll. Based on the feedback, we've made a decision to add both new class/race combos: Dwarf Mages and Undead Hunters in the upcoming client update.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I am just wondering what took so long to think about playable undead hunters.
Go for it.
Go for it.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I agree on this - Humans should also have a Hunter, in fact almost every race should have it as they need to eat and not everyone is a farmer.
Also I think that Hunters' Survival talent tree should get more attention with more attention on melee - like 1-2 more active melee abilities, as well as ones like Wing Clip and Raptor Strike, as well as melee auto attack dealing improved damage.
Of course, certainly not to the point where Survival becomes OP, but to a point where it's actually fun and different and somewhat viable.
So I vote YES on Forsaken Hunters as long as Humans get Hunters as well.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Can't that limitation be bypassed in some way? Like class buttons made smaller or replaced with a drop down menu.
You already expanded the UI to feature two more buttons for additional races.
I don't know how possible it is, but there can be implemented some system in the game where each character can talk to an NPC in the game and change their class to a different one, of course with some lore limitations.
For example you want to be a Human Hunter, you talk to some NPC in some city like Booty Bay and tell them you don't want to be a Human Mage anymore, but a Human Hunter instead. So the NPC gives you a short set of kill and fetch quests related to the class you are switching to:
- Hunter is about killing deadly beats, collecting trophies or taming pets
- Mage is about killing aggressive elementals, collecting rare artifacts
- Warlock is about taming demons, killing demons, collecting demonic artifacts
- Warrior is about killing soldiers, bandits, collecting some weapons or whatever..
you get the idea...
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
We didn't figure out how to do it yet.Allwynd01 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:33 pmCan't that limitation be bypassed in some way? Like class buttons made smaller or replaced with a drop down menu.
You already expanded the UI to feature two more buttons for additional races.
I don't know how possible it is, but there can be implemented some system in the game where each character can talk to an NPC in the game and change their class to a different one, of course with some lore limitations.
For example you want to be a Human Hunter, you talk to some NPC in some city like Booty Bay and tell them you don't want to be a Human Mage anymore, but a Human Hunter instead. So the NPC gives you a short set of kill and fetch quests related to the class you are switching to:
- Hunter is about killing deadly beats, collecting trophies or taming pets
- Mage is about killing aggressive elementals, collecting rare artifacts
- Warlock is about taming demons, killing demons, collecting demonic artifacts
- Warrior is about killing soldiers, bandits, collecting some weapons or whatever..
you get the idea...
Human Hunters will definitely come in the future as soon as break the barrier.
-
Narrative Design for Turtle WoW
Narrative Design for Turtle WoW
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
That is certainly good to know.Mephistopheles wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:51 pm
We didn't figure out how to do it yet.
Human Hunters will definitely come in the future as soon as break the barrier.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Great idea with class change via a NPC!
But it would be better to place these NPCs right in the starting zone, and allow class change at level 1 only, to avoid complications like: char buys the initial class spells, armor..., then it's necessary to clean all the stuff from DB. Less headache is not to let the initial class evolve a lot.
Besides this opens the gates of hell, as if this succeeds, people will start suggest to implement custom classes (dark rangers, demon hunters...) and that's a helluva work I think (though they can be TP-only)
But it would be better to place these NPCs right in the starting zone, and allow class change at level 1 only, to avoid complications like: char buys the initial class spells, armor..., then it's necessary to clean all the stuff from DB. Less headache is not to let the initial class evolve a lot.
Besides this opens the gates of hell, as if this succeeds, people will start suggest to implement custom classes (dark rangers, demon hunters...) and that's a helluva work I think (though they can be TP-only)
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I voted YES.
I don't see problem with lore since many humans were hunters before plague. So they could just pick up old profession.
I don't see problem with lore since many humans were hunters before plague. So they could just pick up old profession.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Undead hunters are fine if human hunters are added as well.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I'm afraid this will change the vanilla experience to some disney world/ fan club service server.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
i like the idea of an undead ranger, like the banshee queen.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I've always felt that hunter should be universal like warrior for all races.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
What if undead hunters could only tame diseased or demonic mobs? There are plenty of them in the undead zones. There are the Plagued Swine and Plaguehounds of Eastern Plaguelands. There are Darkhounds in Trisfal Glades, as well as spiders that would likely become undead pets.Gnarbrok wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:27 amVoted "yes". The only "lore" counterargument I could think of is that pets/animals are unlikely to want to hang out with the undead. But this counterargument seems weak to me - surely plenty of meals, scratches, and "good boys" will eventually make your pet loyal! With that counterargument dispensed with, undead hunters seem like a natural addition (and, as other have pointed out, undead rangers are well-established in lore), so a "yes" vote seems appropriate.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
To be honest I am all for it!
Let us have different varieties and experience Vanilla as never before.
Keep up the good work, fellas!
Let us have different varieties and experience Vanilla as never before.
Keep up the good work, fellas!
- Lichenwitch
- Posts: 51
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
i love this addition. i'd also like to add this to the discussion; just because undead can do something doesn't mean humans NEED to be able to do it/have done it as well. people seem to forget the vast cultural differences that currently exist in forsaken society versus human.
in my mind, it is not a far stretch of the imagination to picture some poor undead, who has found themself outcast, forsaken, and alone, learning new tricks to survive in the wild as well as help ensure the well-being of their people. perhaps, even learning a new kinship with the wild, cruel, savage animals that also often have to fend for themsleves as well.
to me, this has always made perfect sense and been something i have wanted for a long time. the potential connection to the idea of a dark ranger is an added bonus for me as well.
in my mind, it is not a far stretch of the imagination to picture some poor undead, who has found themself outcast, forsaken, and alone, learning new tricks to survive in the wild as well as help ensure the well-being of their people. perhaps, even learning a new kinship with the wild, cruel, savage animals that also often have to fend for themsleves as well.
to me, this has always made perfect sense and been something i have wanted for a long time. the potential connection to the idea of a dark ranger is an added bonus for me as well.
Jules, the Satyr
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I am definitely against the introduction of undead hunters. In my opinion, the introduction of class extensions brings the balance even more apart.
Otherwise I would like there to get undead shamans who can use 2h swords !
blizzard must have thought a lot when it only assigned certain classes to a certain race.
softening this system in such a way falsifies the game in a monstrous way. Why can't you just keep the original race classes? the game on turtle is already quite extended anyway, why do such changes have to be added unnecessarily? that can never be in the spirit and purpose of vanilla
take a step further and introduce the blood elves and paladins on the Horde side to follow in the footsteps of 2.4.3 - then only the "pling" is missing and we are all on the Hell Peninsula
my 5ct
avowed shaman and
avowed undead
Otherwise I would like there to get undead shamans who can use 2h swords !
blizzard must have thought a lot when it only assigned certain classes to a certain race.
softening this system in such a way falsifies the game in a monstrous way. Why can't you just keep the original race classes? the game on turtle is already quite extended anyway, why do such changes have to be added unnecessarily? that can never be in the spirit and purpose of vanilla
take a step further and introduce the blood elves and paladins on the Horde side to follow in the footsteps of 2.4.3 - then only the "pling" is missing and we are all on the Hell Peninsula
my 5ct
avowed shaman and
avowed undead