Mortal Mode: Community Poll

[Torta]

Greetings!

In the future we plan to introduce a new game mode for only the most hardcore players — Mortal Mode, a mode inspired by Ironman in Runescape and Hardcore in Diablo. It is indeed a mode where if you die once, your character is lost forever!

The mode will be completely optional, but you will gain a special title next to your character name and some other nifty rewards — that is, if you manage to get to level 60 as a mortal and achieve Immortality.

Mortals will not get locked out of any game play functions, however, if you die it's over.

There is one important question we need feedback on. The idea of great risk and great reward is appealing, however is the loss of the character too great a risk?

Vote if you want it locked on selection and no longer available for playing or if you want character to become a normal character upon death.

Note: just like our Hardcore Mode, this will only be available to level 1 characters as an option.

Update | February 20 2021

Small informational update on Mortal Mode:

• Mortal characters will not be able to use Auction House.
• Mortal characters will be able to trade only with other Mortal characters.
• Mortal characters will be able to group only with other Mortal characters.
• Mortal characters will be able to send and receive mails only from other Mortal characters.

We still have a few issues to resolve before launching it. Stand by! In best case scenario would be great to have some client-side support for this mode, which is being worked on in 1.15.1.

[Jimmicz]

so does that mean that the XP rates would be normal it would just delete my char upon death? how would PVP death work tho, if we have those PVP dailies? Is it going to stop after hitting 60?

[Torta]

Once you're 60, you can die and revive normally.

[Tamamo-no-Bae]

I personally strongly recommend the character being deleted. This is the true hardcore mode and it isn't for everyone. It's a mode designed to be perilous, dangerous and ultimately optional.

Not losing your character upon dying defeats the point of this ironman mode and trivializes the risk in my opinion. Death in mortal mode should be for good.

[Hazlema]

I think mortal characters should have a visible title. There should be a leader board with the top mortal characters ranked by level. However if you die, you loose the mortal characters title and get removed from the leader board but I don't think it should nuke the toon. I suspect the highest level will be in the 20's (unless they cheat and are escorted with a high level toon or 2 or 3)

** I made it to level 59.999 and got killed by a random spawn. Welp, time to start over.
*** Level 20's grinding in Goldshire... I may get 1 xp per kill but at least I wont die.

[Oswani]

This is a great idea for those wanting a little extra danger in there play through. Personally I would suggest putting some form of gear/item/profession/grouping limitation to make it more distinguished from hardcore mode.

Then again something like that would also have to be polled with the community to ensure the server features don’t clash/diminish the limitations to begin with.

Either way looking forward to this!

[Tamamo-no-Bae]

I think mortal characters should have a visible title. There should be a leader board with the top mortal characters ranked by level. However if you die, you loose the mortal characters title and get removed from the leader board but I don't think it should nuke the toon. I suspect the highest level will be in the 20's (unless they cheat and are escorted with a high level toon or 2 or 3)

** I made it to level 59.999 and got killed by a random spawn. Welp, time to start over.
*** Level 20's grinding in Goldshire... I may get 1 xp per kill but at least I wont die.

Nuking the toon adds to the danger though.
You don't just lose the chance at a title if you fail, you lose everything.
It's a true challenge and those getting on a leaderboard has truly earned their spot. Imagine the fanfare of being the first Immortal lv 60.

Sometimes things don't have to be casual friendly. Also mobs and quests still turn grey, so you can't just sit in noob areas.
Futhermore since it's a race, those who actually progress normally will go much further than those mindlessly grinding.
For this I definitely think death should be real and permanent in this mode.

[Papasocke]

Hi,
I highly appreciate and anticipate this mode. It would be a nice addition to the server.

In my opinion there are two possibilities either the toon just looses its status and the user is in charge to delete the toon itself or proceed as normal character. If this is the case then on the progress to level 60 there should basically no reward. Only if you reach level 60 the toon should be rewarded.

The second way and my prefered way would be to give out rewards on the way to 60 like on hardcore but therefore a death means character is death. And this i mean literally not delete from server side but ghost with no possibility to revive the char. This would allow somehow maintain a leaderboard for yourself which was your highest toon.

And to be honest it allows a somehow maintainable handling of bugs which we now can happen.

There is quite a large community around this one life or death = delete in the wow classic world. Which could be checked as there are more questions which would need to be discussed. For example soul stone or ank handling. Do they count as death or not?

Last words to the devs please continue with your great work i love what you do.

Best regards

[Christianfg]

I've wishing for this since I knew of hardcore mode in turtle wow!

My take on this is that loosing your character is like a biiig fear and makes certain gameplay decisions a lot more thoughtful like professions, itemization, build and who you group with. Also, I get emotionally invested with the character on a deeper level. This way, being a hybrid class makes me feel like I can HEAL myself or save my fellow mortals from actually dying, for real. Meanwhile a rogue can sneak some dangerous places and flee from death itself with his own skills.

Now buying some gear and consumables from ah seems like a big decision for myself. Should I spend my afternoon farming some herbs for my own pots or just go ahead and kill some mobs? Do I really need to venture in this dangerous cave full of spiders that will stuck me with their spiderweb? Aw dude, the ring from that quest is really good but... an elite is like soooo much for me, maybe I should call for help....

So, to sum up, I'd love if death = delete.

I think mortal characters should have a visible title. There should be a leader board with the top mortal characters ranked by level. However if you die, you loose the mortal characters title and get removed from the leader board but I don't think it should nuke the toon. I suspect the highest level will be in the 20's (unless they cheat and are escorted with a high level toon or 2 or 3)

** I made it to level 59.999 and got killed by a random spawn. Welp, time to start over.
*** Level 20's grinding in Goldshire... I may get 1 xp per kill but at least I wont die.

I get where are you coming from but I think people would actually play it! Some of them even after dying at level 59 (yikes). This is already being played on classic by the community, they call it Hardcore and there have been even tournaments. As it is community driven, there is no ingame system to proof it. The only way is to always record/stream while you play and they do delete their characters.

They even have restricted gameplay like: no mailbox, no ah, no group except doing dungeons with other HC characters, etc. And even with all that, there are some level 60 heroes.

[Oswani]

I think mortal characters should have a visible title. There should be a leader board with the top mortal characters ranked by level. However if you die, you loose the mortal characters title and get removed from the leader board but I don't think it should nuke the toon. I suspect the highest level will be in the 20's (unless they cheat and are escorted with a high level toon or 2 or 3)

** I made it to level 59.999 and got killed by a random spawn. Welp, time to start over.
*** Level 20's grinding in Goldshire... I may get 1 xp per kill but at least I wont die.

Nuking the toon adds to the danger though.
You don't just lose the chance at a title if you fail, you lose everything.
It's a true challenge and those getting on a leaderboard has truly earned their spot. Imagine the fanfare of being the first Immortal lv 60.

Sometimes things don't have to be casual friendly. Also mobs and quests still turn grey, so you can't just sit in noob areas.
Futhermore since it's a race, those who actually progress normally will go much further than those mindlessly grinding.
For this I definitely think death should be real and permanent in this mode.

Ahh that would be sick if going mortal mode removed the full exp grey quest feature (or at least reduced the range significantly). As you said more challenge/risk makes the reward in systems like this, trouble is Turtle Wow has many great features to make leveling easier (survival, gardening, grey xp). I’ll again mention limiting items/gear/profession/grouping (essentially Ironman rule sets) and perhaps even disabling the use/benefit from those incredible features.

Also since turtle wow is a pve server, there isn’t really the risk of getting ganked as you level. I’d advocate perma death with some kind of world chat announcement to get the hype going. Also a leaderboard/tracker on the website would be a finishing touch.

[Laurent]

I've been hollering to add something like this for a while!
Absolutely perma death. No questions asked from me, you're mortal, you die once.
A world chat announcement would be awesome too, the player name and what mob they died to.

[Tamamo-no-Bae]

I think mortal characters should have a visible title. There should be a leader board with the top mortal characters ranked by level. However if you die, you loose the mortal characters title and get removed from the leader board but I don't think it should nuke the toon. I suspect the highest level will be in the 20's (unless they cheat and are escorted with a high level toon or 2 or 3)

** I made it to level 59.999 and got killed by a random spawn. Welp, time to start over.
*** Level 20's grinding in Goldshire... I may get 1 xp per kill but at least I wont die.

Nuking the toon adds to the danger though.
You don't just lose the chance at a title if you fail, you lose everything.
It's a true challenge and those getting on a leaderboard has truly earned their spot. Imagine the fanfare of being the first Immortal lv 60.

Sometimes things don't have to be casual friendly. Also mobs and quests still turn grey, so you can't just sit in noob areas.
Futhermore since it's a race, those who actually progress normally will go much further than those mindlessly grinding.
For this I definitely think death should be real and permanent in this mode.

Ahh that would be sick if going mortal mode removed the full exp grey quest feature (or at least reduced the range significantly). As you said more challenge/risk makes the reward in systems like this, trouble is Turtle Wow has many great features to make leveling easier (survival, gardening, grey xp). I’ll again mention limiting items/gear/profession/grouping (essentially Ironman rule sets) and perhaps even disabling the use/benefit from those incredible features.

Also since turtle wow is a pve server, there isn’t really the risk of getting ganked as you level. I’d advocate perma death with some kind of world chat announcement to get the hype going. Also a leaderboard/tracker on the website would be a finishing touch.

World announcements are indeed planned.
While it's true that Turtle WoW has some bonus features to leveling, vanilla still remains deadly.
All it takes is aggroing 3 mobs accidentally and you may die.

Furthermore, reaching lv 60 on immortal with each class will be it's own achievement!

[Barosa25]

I think it's a great idea especially given the award at the end.

[Sandtusk]

The thrill of this mode is in the challenge and difficulty usually forced upon you. Depending on the capabilities of the client, those penalties might have to be player enforced.

I’d say 1 life and 1 death as to not cut any corners. I’ll even add that upon death the player leaves a tombstone on the ground for 24-48 hours for all to see lol.

Regardless this is a great optional addition to an rp server, so I’m looking forward to it!

[Lexi]

I think it should like how hcim is in old school runescape if you die as a hardcore ironman you become a regular ironamn. In this case I think you should be demoted from a mortal to a hardcore character but sadly this isn't an option on the poll.

[Kazgrim]

The point of the mode is to lose when you die, so anything other than losing the character doesn't achieve the purpose of such a mode.

[Vatas]

If mortal character just turns into regular character upon death, what reason is there to not start every character as mortal just in case you get lucky?

[Editserver]

If there are only rewards at the end of the journey I would be ok with converting the toon to a normal one upon death. If there are rewards every ten level or so the toon as to die completely imo.

One other thing. There have to be limitations on how the toon can interact with other players and the AH to make it fair. I suggest no trading at all, so old players can't gear up their toons and get an advantage over new players.

Cheers

[Goodwater]

This idea is really interesting, but I have a couple thoughts on it.

Would it make it even harder to find a group if everyone is playing mortal mode and they're afraid they'll die/aren't allowed to group up with others?

Would it create tension and perhaps toxicity if someone accidentally pulls too many mobs during a group quest and the mortal toon dies? Especially at higher levels?

If mortals are allowed to group up with and do dungeons with others, would boosting become an issue for the server?

I would probably even try playing a mortal toon, but those are some concerns I have about it. Not sure how they would be addressed, though. Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents.

[Sandtusk]

This idea is really interesting, but I have a couple thoughts on it.

Would it make it even harder to find a group if everyone is playing mortal mode and they're afraid they'll die/aren't allowed to group up with others?

Would it create tension and perhaps toxicity if someone accidentally pulls too many mobs during a group quest and the mortal toon dies? Especially at higher levels?

If mortals are allowed to group up with and do dungeons with others, would boosting become an issue for the server?

I would probably even try playing a mortal toon, but those are some concerns I have about it. Not sure how they would be addressed, though. Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents.

Usually in Ironman rulesets grouping isn’t allowed, keeping all risk designated to player control to a certain degree. Even if Mortal toons grouped with each other, the risk of permanent death would still be there. Personally I’d remove/reduce grouping if they don’t limit gear/item/profession/AH use.

Turtle wow has done a great job reducing the leveling process with their features, so i think being forced to go solo wouldn’t be too bad a trade off.

[Balake]

The moderators should also have the power to disqualify people if it is apparent that they are using external help. Otherwise, the first person to reach level 60 with the challenge is the player who has his high level friend follow him around help kill every mob after tagging it.

[Torta]

The moderators should also have the power to disqualify people if it is apparent that they are using external help. Otherwise, the first person to reach level 60 with the challenge is the player who has his high level friend follow him around help kill every mob after tagging it.

We have no ways to monitor the game 24/7. This isn't an option to watch over everyone's leveling.

[Goodwater]

Usually in Ironman rulesets grouping isn’t allowed, keeping all risk designated to player control to a certain degree. Even if Mortal toons grouped with each other, the risk of permanent death would still be there. Personally I’d remove/reduce grouping if they don’t limit gear/item/profession/AH use.

Turtle wow has done a great job reducing the leveling process with their features, so i think being forced to go solo wouldn’t be too bad a trade off.

That's true. Keeping them from grouping with others would probably alleviate a lot of the problems I mentioned.

However, I worry it would go against the general vibe of vanilla if we had that feature. I play an HCIM on Runescape and I love it, but there's hardly any social aspect in Runescape anyway, so it's not an issue to have the playerbase split like that. Vanilla WoW on the other hand has tons of grouping and social aspects.

I'm not sure if what I'm bringing up would even be a problem, but I suppose it's worth bringing up.

[Tthh]

will i be able to go hardcore and mortal mode?

[Sinrek]

will i be able to go hardcore and mortal mode?

Yes.

[Balake]

We have no ways to monitor the game 24/7. This isn't an option to watch over everyone's leveling.

Of course but cheaters ruin challenges if they are not stopped. It's unrealistic to expect moderators to watch over people leveling, but in case someone gets caught (after being reported by another player I guess) they should be disqualified from the challenge.

[Qixel]

What's stopping people from killing mobs a mortal character is and getting them banned? Sounds like a recipe for griefing to me.

[Torta]

We have no ways to monitor the game 24/7. This isn't an option to watch over everyone's leveling.

Of course but cheaters ruin challenges if they are not stopped. It's unrealistic to expect moderators to watch over people leveling, but in case someone gets caught (after being reported by another player I guess) they should be disqualified from the challenge.

We could forbid grouping with higher level characters, for the rest it'll be up to players how they level up.

[Oswani]

What's stopping people from killing mobs a mortal character is and getting them banned? Sounds like a recipe for griefing to me.

Snap screenshot and report it. As Torta said much of this mode's challenge would have to be player run or enforced depending on the system devs create.

[Cruciatus]

Those are very exciting news. Since the inpiration comes from Ironman in Runescape, will there be any restrictions regarding bank access?

[Bazouba]

I love the idea!

[Cytonek]

I think you should have an even more elite title for someone who completes this challenge as a hardcore player while being mortal, and maybe even a different title for someone doing this with a glyph of exhaustion as well. And you should have a system in place so that mortals can’t be boosted by higher level players. But it’s a great idea and I look forward to trying my luck!

[Cogitek]

can we use both hardcore mode and mortal mode ?

[Torta]

can we use both hardcore mode and mortal mode ?

Yes.

[Windwalker]

Bugs
The idea isn´t bad, but the server isn´t flawless.
One can die because of the bugged mobs (spawned under textures), terrain issues (aka death from falling on a flat spot; huge pulls because of walls, floors, stairs issues, etc), mechanics (death upon using that flying machine in major cities; death upon accepting warlock summon while flying; events/spawning not working properly) in both dungeons and open world.
Well, you know what I mean. It's not fair to lose a character or even a mortal mode achievement because of something like that. Some people may try to get their characters back with your (turtle wow staff) help, while others will just leave in frustration.
Title
I'd say there should be some options to choose from based on anything you want: class, role, alignment, race etc.
ex.: CHARNAME the cautious, the coward, the wimp, the elusive, the devout, the unbreakable, the cunning, the lucky etc etc.

Thank you for your work!