Duckie's Big Suggestion List

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Duckie
Posts: 6

Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Duckie » Wed May 24, 2023 12:35 pm

Hi, just some quick ideas I had for QoL improvements on your wonderful little server. As a background I primarily do pve, and raid lead in two Naxx groups every week. I have been MT, OT, melee dps, caster dps, and healer in every raid in the game. I also rarely partake in pvp so I have no opinions on the existing balance, however I am aware that it exists so I try to offer suggestions unlikely to have knock-on effects over there. I don't expect all of these changes to be implemented, or any of them really, but if I don't suggest them then they might never happen. Apologies if anything here has been suggested already, I haven't had time to delve too deeply into this forum.
  • A simple change (at least in theory), and something that would shake up some bis lists, is to lower the spell hit cap by 5%. Hit cap progression for casters is 3%, 4%, 5%, 16% for lvls 60, 61, 62, 63 respectively. For mobs 3 levels above your hit chance drops by 11% for each level. If possible change this to 6% so the progression is a less steep 3%, 4%, 5%, 11%. This helps some classes like Locks that struggle to be hit capped even in bis gear, while having no knock-on effects on pvp. It's also a massive buff to the hybrid specs like boomkins / ele shammies due to their lack of tier gear. This is one of those things that feels really rough compared to melee classes as the amount of hit required to reach the cap is much much higher but items are budgeted for hit in the same way. Leading to a lot more competition between casters for much fewer items. This is a massive buff to spellcasters in general, but after the wbuff changes I also feel they need the buff much more than melee dps does.
  • Allow for classes to have access to other classes ZG enchants from idols. Hybrid classes only getting healing enchants really limits their ability to do stuff outside of healing. Opens up things like locks getting hit from mages, mages getting stam for pvp from locks, paladins having options for spellpower, warriors actually having a dps option + threat option from rogues etc. Just seems fun to shake things up. (This will have a knock-on effect of increasing idol demand) Not sure how much this breaks stuff tbh (probably a lot), but it would be a really fun change :D
  • Make flasks last 1 hour, but you can craft them 2 at a time á le Wotlk. Since the removal of wbuffs it's much much harder to clear raids in one flask, and popping a second one with 30-40 mins to go feels like a waste. This would just be a nice qol to smooth out flask usage.
  • A big discussion started recently with the changes to e'ko farming, and the decision to make them no longer group wide due to concerns about the economy. This was a pity as there are very few farms for consumes which you can do with your friends. In fact there is very little activities to do with others outside of raids / dungeons / pvp. Is there any way we could make Tea Leaves and Scourgestones group wide similar to how ekos used to behave? Since they are soulbound there shouldn't be any economic ramifications and it would be nice to have more group farm activities in the game that isn't just CC badges.
  • Weapon Skill. Comes up a lot, everyone has opinions on it. The easy solution would be to remove it from the game, but I think a more fun and rp solution would be to add more sources to the game. Starting with the races. Some quick ones that make sense within the lore: Dwarves should have axes, Night Elves swords, Gnomes Daggers, Tauren's Maces, Undead Swords (did they forget how to use them after becoming undead?) But honestly, the more the merrier. Choosing a race should have an rp / aesthetic sense to it even if peeps gonna min/max. Consider adding Fist Weps and Polearms into the mix as well. Probably not adding anything new to the discussion here, but I feel it shouldn't be forgotten either.
  • I love chase items. Rare items that make geared players want to go back and do lower level dungeons / raids are great. Idols / Mounts in ZG are perfect for this. The raid effectively never becomes outdated no matter your gear level and as a result newer players have a much easier time finding groups to get gear. The epic trinket from HFQ, Ironfoe, Rivendere's mount, Flask Recipes, are all other good examples. Consider adding similar stuff to any new raids or dungeons you add to the game, so that players have reasons to keep going back. You don't want it to end up like Black Morass.
Class Changes I'd like to see (Based purely on classes I've actually played here):
Warriors:
Warriors are in a good place overall though so I don't think they need buffs, just tweaks. I would also not be in favour of nerfing them, but instead of trying to bring other classes up to their level. With that said some of the following would be nice.
  • Give all warriors 2 points of Tactical Mastery by default. Just to open up talent options without it feeling clunky to not have. Allows for things like mocking blow and intercept without needing to hold up bloodrage. Mostly a quality of life thing.
  • Deep Prot lacks threat compared to Fury Prot, or more accurately it lacks threat scaling. It's fine at lower gear levels. It would be nice to buff the threat scaling of Shield Slam to compensate a little. It currently only scales from Block Value, in terms of threat stats that means crit and str, but you only get 1 extra point of dmg (Block Value) per 20 str. Compared to 18 dmg per 20 str on Bloodthirst. I would buff the scaling, either by having str give more BV, or having shield slam get 3-5 dmg per point of BV (Tinker with the number until you're happy)
  • Sunder Armor should deal 1 point of dmg. So we can track it on the logs and with addons. Ideally all abilities that apply an important debuff should do so, just to make it easier to track. This will also make addons which track remaining time much much more accurate as currently they can only estimate the time from first application and can't "see" when other players refresh it as abilities which do not change the state of a mob do not generate a combat log entry. Other abilities would include Faerie Fire, Expose Armor, Demoralising Shout / Roar etc. There may be another way of forcing these abilities to trigger a combat log entry when they hit that doesn't involve them dealing dmg, and if so just do that. But 1 dmg seems like the simplest solution to an outsider. :)

Warlocks:
  • This comes up a lot but Warlocks need a hit talent. Making Cataclysm give 1% hit in addition to 1% mana reduction would make choices when spec'ing more meaningful. I would tighten it up as well. Make it a 3 point talent with 2% mana / 1% hit per point. Alternatively, if you don't want to mess with the established specs making suppression 2% aff / 1% destro spells per point would be an easier place to put it. Or add it to any talent already being used. Some other options would be Imp Shadowbolt (Hit applies to Shadowbolt only), Intensity (1-2% per point), Or maybe just add a new dedicated talent for it.
  • Have Intensity apply to all destruction spells. Just do it, pushback feels bad. Especially when your other caster friends have talents to counter it.
  • Early game Warlock dps feels horrible, but they are very good at high gear levels. Tweaks to their lower end tier sets would be nice to smooth out this transition. Set bonuses are awful and both Tier 1 and Tier 2 severely lack any kind of hit which Warlocks desperately need (1% hit across all of T1, 0% across all of T2). Adding spell hit to these items would be a very welcome change.
  • To make fire locks more of an option, have Imp Searing Pain remove the bonus threat and change conflag not to consume your Immolate dot. I think they still will struggle with scaling, but that's a trade off with being less reliant on other locks for Imp Sbolt, CoS, etc. and having synergy with mages instead.
  • Split Curses into two groups and allow locks to have one from each group up at a time. Having 4 warlocks in a raid but only one being able to use the good dot isn't fun. Mages don't need to give up on fireball completely to keep scorch up, Shadow Weaving is applied by any spell etc. You also lose raid dmg trying to help with things like Curse of Tongues on Skeram. Let Curse of Shadows, Curse of Elements, Curse of Recklessness be their own thing. Call them utility curses or something and have all the others be offensive curses. (Curse of Agony, Curse of Weakness, Curse of Tongues, Curse of Doom , Curse of Exhaustion etc. in their own other group)
  • Curse of Shadows should also affect Holy Res, and Curse of Elements should affect Nature Res. Paladins and Shammies struggle immensely vs mobs with high amounts of these resistances. Having the bonus 10% dmg also apply to their schools would also be nice. But it might be too strong a change. Up to you guys. :)

Rogues:
  • Are in a good space tbh, but lack some dps in raids compared to warriors. I would add an extra 5% attack speed to Slice n Dice, just as a minor buff to their dps and as a change that won't mess with pvp.
  • Also put an actual good talent at the end of Assassination plx, don't care what it is but anything would be better than what's there. :)
  • Rogue tanking, kind of a fun meme spec on this server. But if it were to become something more you would likely need to change how avoidance in general works in this game. As it stands having a 20% chance to dodge just means 20% of your hit table is taken up by dodges. A more interesting move would be to make avoidance entropic. Similar to how evasion works in Path of Exile. Instead of having a 20% chance to dodge, 20% dodge would mean that every 5th hit on you is guaranteed to be dodged. At 50% total avoidance every second hit would hit you, and every other hit would miss you. This is very important from a healing perspective as it makes incoming damage predictable. This would also make rogue tanking something doable at all gear levels rather than being an all or nothing gimmick. Tanking a dungeon in leather but the healer knows you only take dmg from every 4th or 5th hit is completely fine. This would also make avoidance an actual desirable stat for paladin and druid tanks instead of something that just makes healing them more spikey and unpredictable. Warriors won't care, they mostly use avoidance as a way to get more value out of shield block. This is likely to be an incredibly difficult thing to implement though and fundamentally changes the hit table mechanics of the game, so it's unlikely to be feasible. But it seemed like an interesting idea to throw out there.

Priests:
  • Buff Proclaim Champion. The numbers are way too low for an end of tree talent, and why does it need to take two buff slots?
  • Can PI be changed to affect both the priest and the player being cast on? Not sure how much this breaks things but it would make spec'ing it a lot more fun. Might be fucked from a pvp balance pov though.
  • Remove the bonus threat on Mind Blast. Or have the Imp Mind Blast talent reduce the bonus threat by 20% per point. Like why is it even there?
I have no doubt lots of people have lots of reasons why my suggestions are horrible. But they seem fun to me, so I'm throwing them out there. Thanks to everyone who took the time to read. :)

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Tawneyturtle
Posts: 134

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Tawneyturtle » Wed May 24, 2023 2:50 pm

Omg its Ducky I'm a big fan pls invite 2 guild!!!

Let me tackle on these:

-lower the spell hit cap by 5%: Not a bad idea on paper until you consider mage can reach 16% while taking only the highest item level items with Crit on them and just get 16% hit from items that have no crit alternatives. Seeing as Warlocks already outperform mages if they get to use Agony and Doom, this would be a massive warlock buff as they'd get to replace 4% hit items with Crit, such as
Rockfury Bracers -> The Soul Harvester's Bindings
Wand of Fates -> Doomfinger
T3 shoulders -> Rime covered

-Allow for classes to have access to other classes ZG enchants from idols.

Would make warriors and warlocks even stronger while leaving others behind even further while a few boomies/eles might get 50 more dps.

-Make flasks last 1 hour, but you can craft them 2 at a time á le Wotlk.
Nice I like this :)

-Tea and Scourgestone be group wide drops
+1

- Weapon Skill.
+99 I've made my own post about this with 2 weapons per race :)

- Rare dungeon drops not at 0.01% drop
+1 no one likes to spend 200 hours on an item you'll replace in raids anyway

Warriors
-TBC tactical mastery change
Hard to say as you have intervene and 2 taunts you can already use in defensive stance, 3rd one should require some planning ahead
-Deep prot buffs
+1 I think they could also add a passive to Improved Shield Wall that also let's you use Berserker Rage in Defensive stance so you don't have to get Tactical Mastery as Deep Prot to stance dance for Serker rage.
-Sunder doing damage for logs
They said they won't add this. You're the raid leader just force every warrior to download the sunder tracking addon and you can already see it in your guild's runs if every warrior installs it without making every guild be forced to see how bad their warriors are

Haven't played warlock here so I'll skip, but as far as I know "Curse of Shadows should also affect Holy Res" theres no holy res as a stat in the game? If youre judging from the BWL ads and Chromag they are all coded to receive less magic damage, holy is a school of magic but there's no resistance to it for neither players nor bosses, the damage reduction is a flat buff on those ads not them having very high resistances to spells.

Rogues
Rogues aren't that far behind warriors when you count overall damage dealt, Rogues are behind warriors a lot however if the rogues are sword rogues without Gressil. I've suggested recently that they rework Widow's Remorse to be a slow main hand sword with Hatchet's stats so rogues have an alternative weapon over Rank 14 and Gressil.

Priest
+1000 to PI being both on the priest and the target.
Proclaim Champion is bad I agree
Remove the bonus threat on Mind Blast But my twin emp tanking shadow priests /sob

Cool list ducky please invite my rogue to DT for free tear 3 ty :>
Tawney - High elf warrior 60
Feytale - High elf Mage 60 (Rank 1 Mage Naxx during WBs)
Have fun parsing not only at 19.

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Duckie
Posts: 6

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Duckie » Wed May 24, 2023 3:14 pm

Can't invite babe, we closed the rogue conveyor belt and everyone thinks you're a cunt. <3

Implementing all of these changes would admittedly make Warlocks stupidly overpowered. I agree. I'm just throwing out all possible changes in the hope that some of them get implemented. The 5% hit reduction is because I want to see casters in general buffed and this is an easy way to do it without affecting pvp.

ZG idols is definitely going to break stuff, but I like the idea of breaking stuff in ways that give classes more options. We don't play this game because it's balanced after all.

The sunder thing is more about being able to see when someone else refreshes it on my timers. Same with Faerie Fire, Demo Shout etc. Just a quirk of a really limited interface I guess.

The Holy Res thing is weird. It doesn't exist as a stat for players, and it doesn't exist on all npcs. But when you dig through the database you see stuff like this: https://database.turtle-wow.org/?npc=2000003
So maybe it's going to exist, or it exists sometimes? I dunno. Kinda just want to get ahead of it if it's something they're adding.

Balake
Posts: 563

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Balake » Wed May 24, 2023 3:36 pm

Holy res exists in the code, you can add holy res items and they would work on players, just needs an addon to show it on your character sheet just like you need an addon for hit chance or spell crit.

as for the rest
tl:dr please

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Duckie
Posts: 6

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Duckie » Wed May 24, 2023 3:42 pm

I'm paid based on the word count, sorry.

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Tawneyturtle
Posts: 134

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Tawneyturtle » Wed May 24, 2023 4:20 pm

Duckie wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 3:14 pm
Can't invite babe, we closed the rogue conveyor belt and everyone thinks you're a cunt. <3
So much for the tolerant left
Tawney - High elf warrior 60
Feytale - High elf Mage 60 (Rank 1 Mage Naxx during WBs)
Have fun parsing not only at 19.

Odessacubbage
Posts: 2

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Odessacubbage » Thu May 25, 2023 12:05 am

Honestly great suggestions all around, I especially love the idea of opening up the ZG enchants, would help add to the variety of viable specs for classes that are otherwise somewhat pigeon holed.

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Gantulga
Posts: 462

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Gantulga » Thu May 25, 2023 5:10 am

I disagree on rogues being in a good spot (both PvE and PvP wise).

In PvE is isn't only about the damage output (where they're still behind warriors and often times even hunters/rets) but also about the lack of utility. The classes that can outdo rogues in damage are also providing substantial raid utility in the form of battle shout, offtanking, TS aura, tranquilizing shot, pulling, kiting, blessings, cleanses, etc.
Rogues bring nothing to the table outside of improved expose armor which is a meme anyway and hurts your build/personal DPS.
There isn't a single fight in the game which requires a rogue outside of suppression room, which can be bruteforced through with paladins anyway. Meanwhile tranquilizing shot/kiting/pulling are required in Naxx, fury warriors will be tanking on 4HM and paladin's support kit is always on demand.

A selfish class with zero group utility should have a secure position at the top of the meters, provided they're playing properly. Something as simple as actually letting the class use their core mechanic, poison, with WF totem, would already provide a decent DPS boost. Being locked out of using your class kit just feels bad.
Improving SnD would just keep in place the same stale gameplay where you barely use offensive finishers, because of the limited CP generation and those finishers not scaling with gear.

If improving rogue's damage isn't on the table then they should get some actual raid utility, and there are many logical options there. Like "curse of nature" debuff, shiv with "tranquilizing poison", some threat transfer shenanigans in the form of limited ToT, active avoidance options to compensate for their lack of mobility, etc.

As it stands right now, rogue is just a discount warrior during raiding, with more limited gearing choices.

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Tawneyturtle
Posts: 134

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Tawneyturtle » Thu May 25, 2023 8:42 am

Gantulga wrote:
Thu May 25, 2023 5:10 am
I disagree on rogues being in a good spot (both PvE and PvP wise).

In PvE is isn't only about the damage output (where they're still behind warriors and often times even hunters/rets) but also about the lack of utility. The classes that can outdo rogues in damage are also providing substantial raid utility in the form of battle shout, offtanking, TS aura, tranquilizing shot, pulling, kiting, blessings, cleanses, etc.
Rogues bring nothing to the table outside of improved expose armor which is a meme anyway and hurts your build/personal DPS.
There isn't a single fight in the game which requires a rogue outside of suppression room, which can be bruteforced through with paladins anyway. Meanwhile tranquilizing shot/kiting/pulling are required in Naxx, fury warriors will be tanking on 4HM and paladin's support kit is always on demand.

A selfish class with zero group utility should have a secure position at the top of the meters, provided they're playing properly. Something as simple as actually letting the class use their core mechanic, poison, with WF totem, would already provide a decent DPS boost. Being locked out of using your class kit just feels bad.
Improving SnD would just keep in place the same stale gameplay where you barely use offensive finishers, because of the limited CP generation and those finishers not scaling with gear.

If improving rogue's damage isn't on the table then they should get some actual raid utility, and there are many logical options there. Like "curse of nature" debuff, shiv with "tranquilizing poison", some threat transfer shenanigans in the form of limited ToT, active avoidance options to compensate for their lack of mobility, etc.

As it stands right now, rogue is just a discount warrior during raiding, with more limited gearing choices.
Spend some time on legacyplayers and you'll see that the reason for this isn't rogues being underpowered but Gressil and Kingsfall being the ONLY naxx mainhand for rogues. The website's peak are warriors, followed by ignite funneled Mages, then rogues with KT weapons, Hunters with Slavemaker, THEN warlocks/mages, THEN warriors that aren't playing well (most warriors on the server are bad) AND THEN you have rogues that don't have KT weapons in Naxx. Sort for AQ40/BWL and you'll see more rogues average higher since the competition doesn't all wield weapons from Naxx.

The solution to this is either adding a new main hander sword to naxx trash/bosses or reworking Widow's Remorse to be a Slow and well stated weapon so Rogues have an option to use a Naxx lvl main hand outside of Rank 14 weapons.
Tawney - High elf warrior 60
Feytale - High elf Mage 60 (Rank 1 Mage Naxx during WBs)
Have fun parsing not only at 19.

Dogfight
Posts: 19

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Dogfight » Thu May 25, 2023 12:09 pm

+1 to the concept of changes that would shake up BiS lists and meta a bit. Could achieve this in the ways you suggested with spell hit, ZG enchants and weapon skill. Also by adding sets/set bonuses/items that would improve certain specs/classes for a tier or timeframe etc.

I don't play Twow cause it's perfectly balanced or have a hope that it will be. I'd like to see it being dynamic and change things up as time goes to keep things fresh and having to figuere out New stuff.

Long OP post, limiting my comment to this.

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Gantulga
Posts: 462

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Gantulga » Thu May 25, 2023 4:06 pm

Tawneyturtle wrote:
Thu May 25, 2023 8:42 am
Gantulga wrote:
Thu May 25, 2023 5:10 am
I disagree on rogues being in a good spot (both PvE and PvP wise).

In PvE is isn't only about the damage output (where they're still behind warriors and often times even hunters/rets) but also about the lack of utility. The classes that can outdo rogues in damage are also providing substantial raid utility in the form of battle shout, offtanking, TS aura, tranquilizing shot, pulling, kiting, blessings, cleanses, etc.
Rogues bring nothing to the table outside of improved expose armor which is a meme anyway and hurts your build/personal DPS.
There isn't a single fight in the game which requires a rogue outside of suppression room, which can be bruteforced through with paladins anyway. Meanwhile tranquilizing shot/kiting/pulling are required in Naxx, fury warriors will be tanking on 4HM and paladin's support kit is always on demand.

A selfish class with zero group utility should have a secure position at the top of the meters, provided they're playing properly. Something as simple as actually letting the class use their core mechanic, poison, with WF totem, would already provide a decent DPS boost. Being locked out of using your class kit just feels bad.
Improving SnD would just keep in place the same stale gameplay where you barely use offensive finishers, because of the limited CP generation and those finishers not scaling with gear.

If improving rogue's damage isn't on the table then they should get some actual raid utility, and there are many logical options there. Like "curse of nature" debuff, shiv with "tranquilizing poison", some threat transfer shenanigans in the form of limited ToT, active avoidance options to compensate for their lack of mobility, etc.

As it stands right now, rogue is just a discount warrior during raiding, with more limited gearing choices.
Spend some time on legacyplayers and you'll see that the reason for this isn't rogues being underpowered but Gressil and Kingsfall being the ONLY naxx mainhand for rogues. The website's peak are warriors, followed by ignite funneled Mages, then rogues with KT weapons, Hunters with Slavemaker, THEN warlocks/mages, THEN warriors that aren't playing well (most warriors on the server are bad) AND THEN you have rogues that don't have KT weapons in Naxx. Sort for AQ40/BWL and you'll see more rogues average higher since the competition doesn't all wield weapons from Naxx.

The solution to this is either adding a new main hander sword to naxx trash/bosses or reworking Widow's Remorse to be a Slow and well stated weapon so Rogues have an option to use a Naxx lvl main hand outside of Rank 14 weapons.
I do agree that sword itemization needs its gaps filled but you ignored my points. Even if rogues did the same damage as warriors/hunters/etc at all gear levels (which they don't), those other classes still bring more to the table in terms of utility.

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Tawneyturtle
Posts: 134

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Tawneyturtle » Thu May 25, 2023 7:35 pm

I think rogues bring enough stuff to raids, such as easier access to gearing and allowing the guild to focus more on warriors gearing. Warriors want rare raid items where rogues want 8 tier pieces
Tawney - High elf warrior 60
Feytale - High elf Mage 60 (Rank 1 Mage Naxx during WBs)
Have fun parsing not only at 19.

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Gantulga
Posts: 462

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Gantulga » Thu May 25, 2023 9:26 pm

So rogues exist as budget warriors who don't perform anywhere as well and are brought in so the loot warriors don't want/can't use isn't disenchanted?
That's sad.

Kairion
Posts: 649

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Kairion » Fri May 26, 2023 6:11 am

Gantulga wrote:
Thu May 25, 2023 9:26 pm
So rogues exist as budget warriors who don't perform anywhere as well and are brought in so the loot warriors don't want/can't use isn't disenchanted?
That's sad.
Rogues perform where it counts. Kicks & Stuns are situational, but whenever they are applicable, rogues outvalue warriors quite a bit. Nothing to say of the nuttyness of dodge tank rogue or the value of threat reset via vanish

They are imho a bit on the weak side in pve. But this is because Windfury. Having temporary weapon enchants in weapons is great. Right up until wf makes it obsolete

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Bigsmerf
Posts: 155
Location: Canada Eh

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Bigsmerf » Fri May 26, 2023 2:35 pm

Duckie wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 3:14 pm
Can't invite babe, we closed the rogue conveyor belt and everyone thinks you're a cunt. <3
Well that's not very cash money of you.
Registered altoholic
(Currently levelling)
Elmhoof - Feral Tank (Main)
Vekrin - Fury Warr

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Gantulga
Posts: 462

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Gantulga » Fri May 26, 2023 3:31 pm

Kairion wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 6:11 am
Gantulga wrote:
Thu May 25, 2023 9:26 pm
So rogues exist as budget warriors who don't perform anywhere as well and are brought in so the loot warriors don't want/can't use isn't disenchanted?
That's sad.
Rogues perform where it counts. Kicks & Stuns are situational, but whenever they are applicable, rogues outvalue warriors quite a bit. Nothing to say of the nuttyness of dodge tank rogue or the value of threat reset via vanish

They are imho a bit on the weak side in pve. But this is because Windfury. Having temporary weapon enchants in weapons is great. Right up until wf makes it obsolete
Warriors also have an interrupt which is actually easier to use, and can intercept stun (also faster and more convenient) in the very few scenarios where it actually matters. The existence of intercept alone provides a big utility and DPS uptime advantage to the class.
Dodge tanking is a meme niche which requires very specific gear and only works in a few encounters. The main purpose of dodge tanking is helping progressing guilds who haven't geared up for those encounters yet. Once they're geared, the meme may as well be forgotten.
Meanwhile fury tanking is required in most content.

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Tawneyturtle
Posts: 134

Re: Duckie's Big Suggestion List

Post by Tawneyturtle » Sat May 27, 2023 2:13 am

Gantulga wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 3:31 pm
Kairion wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 6:11 am
Gantulga wrote:
Thu May 25, 2023 9:26 pm
So rogues exist as budget warriors who don't perform anywhere as well and are brought in so the loot warriors don't want/can't use isn't disenchanted?
That's sad.
Rogues perform where it counts. Kicks & Stuns are situational, but whenever they are applicable, rogues outvalue warriors quite a bit. Nothing to say of the nuttyness of dodge tank rogue or the value of threat reset via vanish

They are imho a bit on the weak side in pve. But this is because Windfury. Having temporary weapon enchants in weapons is great. Right up until wf makes it obsolete
Warriors also have an interrupt which is actually easier to use, and can intercept stun (also faster and more convenient) in the very few scenarios where it actually matters. The existence of intercept alone provides a big utility and DPS uptime advantage to the class.
Dodge tanking is a meme niche which requires very specific gear and only works in a few encounters. The main purpose of dodge tanking is helping progressing guilds who haven't geared up for those encounters yet. Once they're geared, the meme may as well be forgotten.
Meanwhile fury tanking is required in most content.


Rogues also don't need to spend that much money on mighty rage potions, elemental sharpening stones, and don't have that high repair bills. While also often taking less damage than warriors since no +10% dmg taken from berserker stance/Deathwish/reck. Rogues stun is way better and intercept stun is GRIEFING IN RAIDS AS IT DRS GOOD STUNS DON'T EVEN SUGGEST PPL SHOULD BE USING THAT AS A CC.

Give rogues a way to deal consistent AoE and look at fights where Warriors can't cheese rankings with Reck (4hm is a good example) and you'll see rogues and wars that arent tanking are similar in DPS.
Tawney - High elf warrior 60
Feytale - High elf Mage 60 (Rank 1 Mage Naxx during WBs)
Have fun parsing not only at 19.

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