Raider's view on possible changes

[Xudo]

People whine so much about consumables, so price rise is very logical and come from players.

This guy doesn't understand supply and demand and doesn't realize that its devs that control both the supply and the demand.

It is PLAYERS who control supply and demand. Raiders have good goldfarms, treat themselves as "educated" and only buy weed from AH. Gatherers are educated too and they put weed with higher price because raiders anyway will pay.

Supply of herb in world is enough for all raiders. People collect enough to supply raids. It is only your ability to pay higher price raises AH costs.
Price rise will stop at the point when gatherers gold-per-hour will be equal to raiders gold-per-hour. When you decide "hey, it costs too much, I'd better gather it myself".

[Geojak]

I agree with telabim and eko duration being to short and 20 min would be better
I also agree that buff maximum should be increased
But overall I mostly disagree with your points
- 1

[Balake]

It is PLAYERS who control supply and demand. Raiders have good goldfarms, treat themselves as "educated" and only buy weed from AH. Gatherers are educated too and they put weed with higher price because raiders anyway will pay.

Supply of herb in world is enough for all raiders. People collect enough to supply raids. It is only your ability to pay higher price raises AH costs.
Price rise will stop at the point when gatherers gold-per-hour will be equal to raiders gold-per-hour. When you decide "hey, it costs too much, I'd better gather it myself".

Supply is how much herbs enter the economy. You are wrong to say there are enough herbs for all raiders. You genuinely can't know shit YOU DONT HAVE A MAX LEVEL CHARACTER, stop talking out of your ass PLEASE.

This is not like zg bijou farms where anyone can enter an instance and farm whenever they want. These herbs are heavily contested. Felwood is empty, Blasted lands is empty, Winterspring is empty.

Demand is how much herbs people are using. If your suggestion is to simply use less consumes then you are deliberately missing the point by so much that you are a lost cause not worth talking to at all.

It's not hard to deduce that supply is controlled by the devs by how much herbs spawn, and demand is controlled by the devs by how much herbs the consumes cost and how long those consumes last.

If this trend of herbs becoming more expensive continues, this server will degenerate into classic mentality of botting and asking gold for every service. The raiders can't simply pick more herbs cause there's no herbs to pick so they'll sell mage portals and food for 5g, open boxes for 1g each, sell tanking runs for 50g and I don't blame em, I blame the scuffed state of the economy that forced them to do this to make ends meet.

Once again, farming gold to buy a thing or obtaining the thing yourself is the same thing, the currency spent is time not gold. Do you go to a person in real life complaining that eggs have become too expensive and you say to them just raise your own chickens?

What I think the truth is, is you're someone who uses gathering professions to make gold and you think this will help you make more. You won't make more gold, you'll just gather up less herbs per hour then sell them for more to end up with the same gold per hour you were making before. The solution is simple, make golden sansam and sungrass and firebloom actually useful for shit then everyone benefits. The herbalists and the alchemists and the consumers.

[Xudo]

I do have high level donor character for my twink with gathering professions. It is not 60 lvl though. And I'm 100% sure that all your implications are theoretical. I do have practical vision. "Useless" herbs can be vendored anyway, but so far they are sold on AH a bit higher than to vendor, so everything is ok.
I'm not going to reply about herb anymore. You are wrong. Price of herb will raise until you start to refuse to buy them.
#nochanges to herbs

[Balake]

I do have high level donor character for my twink with gathering professions. It is not 60 lvl though. And I'm 100% sure that all your implications are theoretical. I do have practical vision. "Useless" herbs can be vendored anyway, but so far they are sold on AH a bit higher than to vendor, so everything is ok.
I'm not going to reply about herb anymore. You are wrong. Price of herb will raise until you start to refuse to buy them.
#nochanges to herbs

You just admitted you are holding your #nochanges stance only because you think you can materially profit from the server's problems.

>"Useless" herbs can be vendored anyway, but so far they are sold on AH a bit higher than to vendor, so everything is ok.
https://www.superduperauctions.com/turt ... ance/13464
You saying 50 more copper than vendor price is ok? That's literally less than the auction house fee.

>Price of herb will raise until you start to refuse to buy them.
You don't realize that people can't simply refuse to buy herbs. Or maybe you do realize that they have to keep buying them no matter how expensive they get, and you like seeing others be harmed.
You are resentful to everyone that's not yourself. If you had two options, make everyone happy or make only yourself happy, you'd choose to be the only happy person. It helps to be a little less selfish, but if you insist on the pragmatic "me first mentality", please educate yourself on video game economy and you'll realize #changes to herbs will make you more gold.

[Tawneyturtle]

I do have high level donor character for my twink with gathering professions. It is not 60 lvl though. And I'm 100% sure that all your implications are theoretical. I do have practical vision. "Useless" herbs can be vendored anyway, but so far they are sold on AH a bit higher than to vendor, so everything is ok.
I'm not going to reply about herb anymore. You are wrong. Price of herb will raise until you start to refuse to buy them.
#nochanges to herbs

its ironic that you made a thread asking for low lvl PVP to be less gatekept by requesting first aid to be locked behind levels here, therefor making it easier viewtopic.php?t=4586 but you nonstop try to sabotage these threads when PVE players ask for content to be more accesible.

[Xudo]

From your replies I see that you stopped thinking I talk shit because I don't know. And you start thinking that I talk this because I immoral person

its ironic that you made a thread asking for low lvl PVP to be less gatekept by requesting first aid to be locked behind levels here, therefor making it easier viewtopic.php?t=4586 but you nonstop try to sabotage these threads when PVE players ask for content to be more accesible.

I made those threads because using high-level enchants and consumables are clear abuse of rules. Those rules were changed in later patches to partially fix those gaps.
Intent of blizzard on that looks like they misdesigned that part because it is low priority.

Making low level bg "easier" will change things from barely alive to active.
Making raids easier is about changing already active but hard to active but easy. T3 should be hard. It is engame afterall.
T3 is already easier than r14. No need to buff raiding at all.

[Balake]

That's a lot of talking about raiding from someone who never raided here.

[Xudo]

That's a lot of talking about raiding from someone who never raided here.

If thats your only argument, then I consider myself right about all things I talk about.

[Balake]

If thats your only argument, then I consider myself right about all things I talk about.

I have said tens of arguments throughout all these threads and you wouldn't be convinced because its not in your own interest. I'm not trying to convince you anymore, I know people can see right through your bullshit and those are the people that matter.
But if you want me to rebuke everything you said individually AGAIN here ya go

"Intent of blizzard on that looks like they misdesigned that part because it is low priority."
Cost of consumes is a misdesign by blizzard. They fixed it later with much lower consume costs, battle/guardian elixir split etc. Server population is higher than population was in 2007 vanilla. Server population is international and night of one side is full of day players from another side, so you can't stay up late to farm herbs like was possible in 2007 vanilla.

"Making low level bg "easier" will change things from barely alive to active." I'm not the one who brought that up and I don't care about it, but you know its ironic you say that, what you REALLY want to say is: Making the barrier to activities less prohibitive and scary will make people more willing to enter them.

Making raiding consumes cost less with make more people willing to participate in raids. More people raiding will mean demand stays the same but everyone individually spends less on them. Like I said before, win for the herbalist (sells a higher quantity of herbs and makes more gold), alchemist (makes more consumes and makes more gold), and the consumer (can afford his consumes now, more people will buy and the price will be fair).

"Making raids easier is about changing already active but hard to active but easy." I have no idea what this means

"T3 should be hard" Making consumes cheaper won't make T3 easier, it makes the entry requirement less prohibitive which is a good thing. So many people want to raid but they don't have the time to farm consumes so they can't.

"T3 is already easier than r14. No need to buff raiding at all." Comparing apples to oranges here, not relevant at all to the topic, but honestly it would be nicer if pvp consumes were cheaper too. The hardcore pvpers will need to grind less and the casual pvpers will feel less intimidated by the big consumes cost.

[Xudo]

Could you repeat it all in other words? I don't understand your writing

[Snakeman]

Could you repeat it all in other words? I don't understand your writing

idk, I understood Balake's last post just fine. Sounds more like a you problem

I can't help but agree with Balake, though. My main source of income is through herbalism and I've found absolutely zilch recently. Even Western Plaguelands has been totally barren on every visit. And it's a massive problem! Because you absolutely need consumes to clear T3 (if you show up to Loatheb without GSPP... idfk man), and most of their recipes require shit you can't even casually pick anymore because it's too hotly contested. If that's not a glaring issue with the game design, I don't know what else to say.

Like. These pots are a HARD requirement so your entire raid doesn't just drop dead after 2 minutes on certain bosses. You can't just not use them, or not buy the herbs that go into them, if you want to clear the raid. This is what it all hinges on now.

[Xudo]

I agree that some consumables are hard requirement. But the problem is that people exxagerating then they talk about required amount of consumables. For example they insist that Mighty rage potion is absolutely required, while it is not.

As a gatherer, you probably used to times when you can go out and collect all herbs from location yourself. Now you can't do it yourself because there are a lot of leveling folks with herbalism.
Guess what. Levelers don't go raids, but they do gather weed to sell it.

I monitor AH for a several days regarding Gromsblood and I see that amount of herb coming to ah is more than amount of herb sold on AH. Some people buy only 3 stacks of Gromsblood per day. Some people buy a lot. But on the next day, a lot of new herbs appear on the market.
Some people sell like 20 stacks of herbs, some 1-5-10 ones.

I agree that gathering herbs for raid by specific individual is not possible now. But it doesn't mean that there is shortage of herbs.
I was not right on advise "go gather yourself". If you are raider, you need some other means to farm gold. You should rely on crowd gathering and use AH.

If you see that price on herb is too high, then you should buy only hard requirements. When herb sellers put weed on ah and don't sell it, they will eventually lower the price because they need to compete with eachother. If you buy all herb regardless of the price, then price will rise.


BTW. Why any of you think that it is good thing that more people will participate in raids?

[Kairion]

You dont force herbslists to lower prices by not buying. There are a significant amount if raiders who will make the price stable at these higher levels. But i find it moronic how raiders dont cooperate in their guild in order to get consumables.

You can do farmruns in places like diremaul east or stratholme and pick the herbs & disenchant the greens and blues and split the profit, you can ensure your raid is killing the trash in zg that stands on herbing nodes, you can trade resources so everyone can farm what they are good at.

You can even put a tax on classes without many consumables to subsidize those who actually need it. Or you can just not use consumables on farm status mc & bwl.
Heck there is even the option to skip the occasional id to give people the time to farm back up when gold/bankstashes run dry.

Even just finding an alchemist who is willing to craft flasks for you from your own mats can save you a 15-29g profit margin over just buying it from the AH

Sure the price of consumables is currently a bit nasty and some way to increase the supply of herbs alongside the quitr significantly increasing serverpop would be nice. But it could be as simple as lowering herb respawn timers based on players in the zone or adding high level herbs to some more mobs droptables.

[Tawneyturtle]

You dont force herbslists to lower prices by not buying. There are a significant amount if raiders who will make the price stable at these higher levels. But i find it moronic how raiders dont cooperate in their guild in order to get consumables.

You can do farmruns in places like diremaul east or stratholme and pick the herbs & disenchant the greens and blues and split the profit, you can ensure your raid is killing the trash in zg that stands on herbing nodes, you can trade resources so everyone can farm what they are good at.

You can even put a tax on classes without many consumables to subsidize those who actually need it. Or you can just not use consumables on farm status mc & bwl.
Heck there is even the option to skip the occasional id to give people the time to farm back up when gold/bankstashes run dry.

Even just finding an alchemist who is willing to craft flasks for you from your own mats can save you a 15-29g profit margin over just buying it from the AH

Sure the price of consumables is currently a bit nasty and some way to increase the supply of herbs alongside the quitr significantly increasing serverpop would be nice. But it could be as simple as lowering herb respawn timers based on players in the zone or adding high level herbs to some more mobs droptables.

Every guild has guild alchemists with all recipes, its also an issue of them needing 2 item slots for Dreamfoil/Gromsblood, 1 for Blotus and 1 for the unique mats and 1 for Vials. Thats 5 bag space per Flask, and you need to go to BWL or Scholo to make them. It's effort. It's infinitely easier to solo DME and ZG trash and sell the mats / rep items from there.

[Ugoboom]

BTW. Why any of you think that it is good thing that more people will participate in raids?

Lmao

this alone shows your interest in this thread solely is to troll.

Look buddy, ya aren't interested in raiding yourself, but tons of people are. This topic just doesn't concern you and that's okay, now move along

[Xudo]

BTW. Why any of you think that it is good thing that more people will participate in raids?

Lmao

this alone shows your interest in this thread solely is to troll.

Look buddy, ya aren't interested in raiding yourself, but tons of people are. This topic just doesn't concern you and that's okay, now move along

Well. It is hard to resist temptation to troll people who treat themselves as super cool top tier raiders who ask to change rules of the game just because it gets harder for them.

[Kairion]

You dont force herbslists to lower prices by not buying. There are a significant amount if raiders who will make the price stable at these higher levels. But i find it moronic how raiders dont cooperate in their guild in order to get consumables.

You can do farmruns in places like diremaul east or stratholme and pick the herbs & disenchant the greens and blues and split the profit, you can ensure your raid is killing the trash in zg that stands on herbing nodes, you can trade resources so everyone can farm what they are good at.

You can even put a tax on classes without many consumables to subsidize those who actually need it. Or you can just not use consumables on farm status mc & bwl.
Heck there is even the option to skip the occasional id to give people the time to farm back up when gold/bankstashes run dry.

Even just finding an alchemist who is willing to craft flasks for you from your own mats can save you a 15-29g profit margin over just buying it from the AH

Sure the price of consumables is currently a bit nasty and some way to increase the supply of herbs alongside the quitr significantly increasing serverpop would be nice. But it could be as simple as lowering herb respawn timers based on players in the zone or adding high level herbs to some more mobs droptables.

Every guild has guild alchemists with all recipes, its also an issue of them needing 2 item slots for Dreamfoil/Gromsblood, 1 for Blotus and 1 for the unique mats and 1 for Vials. Thats 5 bag space per Flask, and you need to go to BWL or Scholo to make them. It's effort. It's infinitely easier to solo DME and ZG trash and sell the mats / rep items from there.

Thats honestly cherrypicking with on demand access to a mailbox being a thing on this server. Sure its "easier" to do the stupid farm. Thats why its so expensive and alchemists earn a fortune on every flask they put for auction. But thats not necessarily a problem in the game if you want to pay double for your consumables for convinience

[Healingrain]

I have yet to really begin raiding on this server, but I do think this is an important issue given my former raiding experience on Classic. Bear in mind that Classic and TWoW now is beginning to host a number of players that Blizzard's servers simply did not have the capacity to support in the original game, and it's silly to think this doesn't have consequences on highly sought-after and finite open world resources. The supply of herbs like Dreamfoil and Gromsblood is somewhat "elastic" with increased player activity if it can be farmed in dungeons like DM:E, but things like Plaguebloom for example very quickly got out of hand in Classic.

I think a good change in the spirit of Vanilla WoW would be to adjust the alchemy recipes to use very under-utilized herbs. Why is Dreamfoil in basically everything and Golden Samsam used for basically nothing? Why are people running laps past all the Arthas Tear's? If it's all over high level zones, it should be useful for high-level consumables. It's okay if some are a little more valuable than others, but it shouldn't be useless trash. I also think the cauldrons of protection potions from TBC (and possibly one for restorative potions) would be great recipe additions because often the entire raid is using them simultaneously for the encounters where they make sense.

[Bayanni]

Well. It is hard to resist temptation to troll people who treat themselves as super cool top tier raiders who ask to change rules of the game just because it gets harder for them.

Says the guy asking to change twinking items and enchants for personal reasons
Your posts are less than worthless and I sincerely hope you leave the server for good