Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Karrados
Posts: 106

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Karrados » Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:55 pm

Oh I can see this going well. Alliance would get yet another Burning Crusade model which works 100% while Horde would get another jerry-rigged race which is very questionable at best.

To this day Goblins still have only one face with their customization being extremely lacking.

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Kazgrim
Posts: 392

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Kazgrim » Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:53 am

Karrados wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:55 pm
Oh I can see this going well. Alliance would get yet another Burning Crusade model which works 100% while Horde would get another jerry-rigged race which is very questionable at best.

To this day Goblins still have only one face with their customization being extremely lacking.

It's fine to be upset about goblins not having as many customizations as the base races, but why would you oppose free new content like an ogre race? Even if it's missing some social emote animations, how is that effecting you?

And to be fair, goblin customizations required work and custom assets whereas high elves we just copied what blizzard had already made. So obviously there were always going to be discrepancies in quality.
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Tasman
Posts: 12

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Tasman » Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:24 am

Draenei for Alliance (all classes that was available in TBC expansion except shaman) and Arakkoa bird people for the Horde (Clases: Warrior, Rouge, Hunter, Mage, Shaman). And reworked Outland for those 2 races with leveling locations from lvl 1 to 60.

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Kefke
Posts: 77

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Kefke » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:36 pm

I think Ogres make a lot of sense as a Horde race. There's a lot of parallels to the High Elves, actually. Both are iconic faction races that are still present in the lore, and represented by NPCs, but weren't made playable. High Elves were supposed to be diminished in number, while only a small number of Ogres remained loyal to the Horde.

There's at least a usable model to start from for Ogres, since we have the transformation, and as far a general body shape, you could probably adapt Panderan armors for them. Lack of a female model is a problem, but not insurmountable. Based on lore and in-game enemies, we even have a good number of classes for them; Warriors (obviously), Mages (likewise), Warlocks, Shamans...in fact, looking on Wowpedia to double check, they could be any of the playable classes (except Paladin), and a few that aren't in the game, so take your pick and fill the remaining slots to make them on par with High Elves for selection. So give them Hunter, since they have both Hunters and Rangers, and since they're big leave Rogue as the odd one out (there's only one example of an Ogre Rogue anyway) in favour of Priest to lean into the magic aspect.

As for what race the Alliance should get? Goblins. Yes, I know that Goblins are traditionally a Horde race. Yes, I know that they're Horde in Retail. Frankly, I just don't think that it makes sense that they're still a Horde exclusive race in WoW. Look at every Goblin city. What do they have in common? They're neutral. Members of both factions are welcome as long as they don't cause trouble. Goblin merchants do business in Alliance lands, and even in Alliance capital cities. They may have come with the Horde, but it's pretty clear that by the time of WoW, the only thing Goblins are loyal to is Gold. Heck, even the intro for them in Retail basically says this. Personally, I'd even go so far as to give them an additional racial passive that makes NPCs treat them as neutral as long as they don't take hostile actions (the way Goblin bruisers treat everyone), but that might be a bit much. Still, if any race makes sense to play both sides, I'd say that Goblins are that race.

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Lightwave
Posts: 5

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Lightwave » Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:34 pm

Consider: Draenei as a neutral race.
Either choosing a faction partway, or just have 2 identical versions, one for horde and one for alliance.
If you go with the latter, you could even maintain the Paladin/Shaman exclusivity.


To quote a friend when we discussed this:
Horde Draenei: "We understand that the Orcs are not our true foes. Both of our peoples were victims of the Legion, and before then we were neighbors in peace. Now, if you would have us, we shall be brothers in war."
Horde: "The Horde is a family. We fight, but we forgive. We know the strength that forgiveness requires, and welcome yours gladly."

Alliance Draenei: "Screw the Orcs."
Alliance: "Welcome to the club!"

Xeapor
Posts: 4

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Xeapor » Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:00 am

Lightwave wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:34 pm
Consider: Draenei as a neutral race.
Either choosing a faction partway, or just have 2 identical versions, one for horde and one for alliance.
If you go with the latter, you could even maintain the Paladin/Shaman exclusivity.


To quote a friend when we discussed this:
Horde Draenei: "We understand that the Orcs are not our true foes. Both of our peoples were victims of the Legion, and before then we were neighbors in peace. Now, if you would have us, we shall be brothers in war."
Horde: "The Horde is a family. We fight, but we forgive. We know the strength that forgiveness requires, and welcome yours gladly."

Alliance Draenei: "Screw the Orcs."
Alliance: "Welcome to the club!"
That sounds like the most lore unfriendly thing ever

Ogres for Horde, Draenei for Alliance

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Kefke
Posts: 77

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Kefke » Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:29 am

Xeapor wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:00 am
Ogres for Horde, Draenei for Alliance
Nah, we don't need Draenei. Give Ogres to the Horde, and let Goblins be the opportunistic little bastards they are by working for whoever pays them.

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Arduron
Posts: 10

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Arduron » Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:52 am

If the night elves can't get some kind of companion race on Kalimdor, then just goblins on both factions would be great, but not sure how they'd fit in as well as the intro does for the horde with Gazlowe and whatnot.

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Littlebirdd
Posts: 49

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Littlebirdd » Sun Jan 22, 2023 5:38 am

Vrykuls would fit for alliance! vikings would be fitting in stormwind.
I think seeing snake creatures and aliens in stormwind would ruin the image of the medieval stormwind...
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Pauloricardo
Posts: 25

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Pauloricardo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:43 am

Is it possible add Furbolgs for the Alliance? They could begin with the Night Elves, but I think the team Turtle should focus in add Ogres for the Horde(It will be a good combination: 2 races with a good lore but forgotten by Blizzard been playable).I think it will work well.

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Kefke
Posts: 77

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Kefke » Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:44 am

I could see Furbolgs being added. From a lore standpoint, they have at least an indirect tie to the Alliance. Plus, physically, they'd make a good counterpart to Taurens. It might take some tweaks to how quests are written to account for friendly Furbolgs in the Alliance instead of just the hostile and neutral NPC ones, though.

Pauloricardo
Posts: 25

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Pauloricardo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:48 pm

Kefke wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:44 am
I could see Furbolgs being added. From a lore standpoint, they have at least an indirect tie to the Alliance. Plus, physically, they'd make a good counterpart to Taurens. It might take some tweaks to how quests are written to account for friendly Furbolgs in the Alliance instead of just the hostile and neutral NPC ones, though.
Timbermaw Furbolgs or another tribe?

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Galendor
Posts: 51

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Galendor » Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:39 am

Though I was writing about furbolgs and children of Cenarius earlier, I'd like to suggest another variant that could be added to the Alliance: half-elves.
Yeah, they're basically humans with elven ears and I doubt that there's a lot of people who want to play as half-bloods when there are actual high elves but still that's a race that is in the Alliance due to their blood and spirit.

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Galendor
Posts: 51

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Galendor » Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:37 am

Pauloricardo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:48 pm
Kefke wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:44 am
I could see Furbolgs being added. From a lore standpoint, they have at least an indirect tie to the Alliance. Plus, physically, they'd make a good counterpart to Taurens. It might take some tweaks to how quests are written to account for friendly Furbolgs in the Alliance instead of just the hostile and neutral NPC ones, though.
Timbermaw Furbolgs or another tribe?
I' d suggest another tribe - Barkskin from WC3 or Stillpine from TBC. Or ever refugees from Gnarlpine - to make furbolgs start in Teldrassil.

Mac
Posts: 409

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Mac » Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:33 am

Galendor wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:37 am
I' d suggest another tribe - Barkskin from WC3 or Stillpine from TBC. Or ever refugees from Gnarlpine - to make furbolgs start in Teldrassil.
Barkskin are a great choice in my opinion. The lore of the game just sorts of forgets they exist, so reintroducing them would be great.

Pauloricardo
Posts: 25

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Pauloricardo » Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:41 pm

Galendor wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:37 am
Pauloricardo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:48 pm
Kefke wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:44 am
I could see Furbolgs being added. From a lore standpoint, they have at least an indirect tie to the Alliance. Plus, physically, they'd make a good counterpart to Taurens. It might take some tweaks to how quests are written to account for friendly Furbolgs in the Alliance instead of just the hostile and neutral NPC ones, though.
Timbermaw Furbolgs or another tribe?
I' d suggest another tribe - Barkskin from WC3 or Stillpine from TBC. Or ever refugees from Gnarlpine - to make furbolgs start in Teldrassil.
I forgot the Barskin...As far as I know, They were the ones who helped the Night Elves against the Burning Legion(go to Mercenary post and contract them) am I right?

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Kefke
Posts: 77

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Kefke » Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:23 am

Barkskin would be good. I'm all for things that bring back old and forgotten lore. That's a big reason I'd like to see Ogres in the Horde to begin with.

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Lightwave
Posts: 5

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Lightwave » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:33 pm

My big concern with Furbolgs as an Alliance race is that Furbolgs are druidic and shamanistic.
Giving Alliance players a second Druid race could be balanced the same way they did it in Cataclysm with Troll Druids (Praise Gonk, Loa of Shapes!), but Alliance Shamans (and the Horde Paladins required for faction balance) are a contentious subject.

Not to mention the added workload of adding/animating new models for druid forms.


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Zulnam
Posts: 35

Re: Ogres as a Horde Race (Who Joins the Alliance?)

Post by Zulnam » Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:02 am

Like I said in the other thread on new races, Alliance already has (almost) all the OG wc2/3 races. So picking a new alliance race is tricky.

It would have to be one of the neutral races from wow. And none of them, to my knowledge, have graphics for more complex gear wearing like the playable races.

But technical difficulties aside, lets see some of the options:

Dryad - this is where the almost from above comes to play. While Dryads did technically aid the Night Elves in wc3, they are not a faction in the traditional sense, have no settlements and it would be impossible to imagine a group of Dryads coming together and agreeing to aid a specific faction in an aggressive manner. So no.

Furbolgs - by far, easiest one from a lore perspective. Furbolgs are liked by Night Elves and there are furbolg factions in-game that you can befriend. A bid for the Night Elves to have a Furbolg faction join the Alliance would be plausible. Furbolgs might also be one of the very few other races that could play as Druids (need to confirm this, but seems plausible).

Draenei (Broken) - They aided the Alliance in wc2 during the Outland campaign. Some of the alliance soldiers did make it back before the portal closed (again), thus giving plausibility of bringing more Draenei or at least word of their deeds. They have also been done very dirty by the old Horde and are basically nomads because of them. Of all the NPC races in Azeroth, the Draenei have everything to gain from joining the Alliance and nothing to lose from going to war against the Horde.

Centaurs - less obvious, centaurs nevertheless have some characteristics that make them an option: they are known to accept outsiders (see Desolace factions) and they are big enemies of the Tauren. After Thrall helped the tauren in wc3 against the centaurs it's not too much of a stretch that a faction might get the bright idea to try and join the Alliance.

Blood Elves - while you could find a way to integrate blood elves both from Azeroth and Outland, this is a lazy design choice imo. It would be the 3rd elf race in the Alliance, identical to High Elves.

Naga - biggest stretch on the list, but remnants of the Naga were allied with the Blood Elves during the events of wc3ft. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but some in-game quests and stories would have to be implemented beforehand. Otherwise the transition would be too sudden and make no sense. This one also depends on where exactly t-wow wants to diverge from the official story line.

So while some would say Furbolgs are the most obvious choice, I would make a strong case for Draenei as being equally good if not a better choice.
- the race fits perfectly into the "nomad" type chosen by the dev team for new races, thus abandoning the need for a starter zone or capital;
- the race has a deeply rooted vendetta against the Horde;
- they have helped the Alliance in the past (albeit lore-wise, not in-game; still counts imo)
Also, personally:
- they look better than Furbolgs :D
- adding them would be a great excuse to flush out the village they have in Swamp of Sorrows, add a flight path, more quests for Alliance. Horde could get quests to stomp out alliance Draenei. You could have both factions have scouts in the area. It would be a great starting point for creating a pvp-oriented zone.

But this is just speculation. Any of these classes, even ogres, would need so much work done before they can reasonably be played, we'll probably see 3-5 more race threads before any official news.

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