Weapon Skill and Mastery

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Mothernature
Posts: 6

Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Mothernature » Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:22 pm

Hi Turtle Devs and Turtle Players!

Weapon skill is aweful. I mean, in game its super power. Incredibly powerful. Probably the single best stat in the entire game and a few races are given them for free. At least in the case of melee its unfair and unfun that the race I want to play is less viable, suboptimal. My night elf, troll warrior or else will never be as good as Human or Orc.

Both have weapon skills Human in maces and swords and orcs in axes.

High Elves and Trolls get the ranged weapon skill in bows, which is not as useful at all since shoot doesn't have glancing blows.

I purpose that weapon skill should be able to be modified in game, by your own mastery in the skill. Grinding hours to gain the intial 300 skill doesn't neccesarly feel good whilst you are doing it, but it really feels like you're practicing. However, 300 isn't the peak standard we should be working for. its 305, or preferably 309. Which is insanely hard to get.

A close to BiS item for warriors and other mail/plate items is Edgemaster's Guards. However, usually neither Humans or orc need it.

I believe weapon skill should be tied to your own progression, like a profession you should be able to become a master swordsman or woman, you're mastery in your weapon unmatched by others! (Flavortext of course)

Give us a really difficult questline that ends up with you becoming a master over you're weapon of choice. (You pick one) and gain a +5 to that weapon skill.

Make it kind of like Rokh'delar or Anathema questline. LET US FEEL AWESOME! And let us please just be able to play the race that we actually want.
All I want for christmas, is a weapon skill increasing questline.

I love the additions that has been made to Turtle Wow. Especially the weapon skill items, Fists of the Makers almost alleviated a lot of these problems. However I think they can be solved in another way.
Give the power to the players. Let us be awesome!

Mac
Posts: 336

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Mac » Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:10 am

A quest line at 60 to gain +5 in one weapon skill of your choosing would be a great addition to the game. Could involve end game zones, dungeons, and even raids.

Kairion
Posts: 110

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Kairion » Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:40 am

Im not a fan of this solution. It completely removes an aspect of gearing for melees. It also can bait you into choosing the wrong skill to specialize in.
Imagine doing the quest now and choose swords beause you have gressil, only for the scarlet monestay raid to release a best in slot mace.

I think instead we should offer more items that provide weapon skill (and yes the best among them can also be long epic questlines).

I also don't think we should negate the bonus a race has to a weapontype completely. But there should just be alternatives around if you do not want to play said race.

Geojak
Posts: 634

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Geojak » Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:21 am

i wish the racial meele weapon skills were nerfed to +3 exactly how blizzard did it in wotlk (at that point it was called expertise already but same thing and nerfed from 5 to 3)

why? because 5 weapon skill is 3% hit alone, plus many other benefits.
the advantage is just too massive in raiding for meeles.

it actively hurts players that casually want to play the race the like.
Msg

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Nightowl
Posts: 28

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Nightowl » Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:15 pm

Or just do Vanilla+ solution and just give weapon skill to literally everyone. Here's how it looked over there when I was playing years ago:

Night Elves - 1h swords and glaives
Dwarves - 1h and 2h axes.
Gnomes - Daggers

Tauren - 1h maces, 2h maces and fist weapons
Trolls and Undead I don't remember. I think undead have 1h Sword and 2h Sword passive but no maces and Trolls had axes in addition to their bows.

High elves I'd give 1h swords and no 2h sword raical
A) there's too many of them already and
B) they're usually seen dual wielding swords or using sword and board like Spellbreakers.

These changes will help people who like to play "sub optimal" races like Dwarves, Night elves and Tauren.

If it's a real bother to add so many racials, give us more items that increase weapon skill. Turtle-WoW already has a hat that gives +5 weapon skill to glaives, and another Horde-only hat that gives +5 weapon skill to 2h maces. If coding so many races is such a bother, give us more easy to acquire items that will help people who like to play races that do not have weaponskills.

Kairion
Posts: 110

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Kairion » Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:35 pm

Adding weapon skill to certain weapon types does not solve the issue. Sword Mastery being the best mastery and the best weapon in the game being a sword creates a huge incentive to pick human (or substitute any race with that proficiency). If you don't offer a loot option for any speciality, your just trolling the playerbase hard with extra weapon proficiencies

Every race should have the option to patch up their shortcomings, regardless of what item just happens to be BiS for your content phase. If you can edge out a small increase in crit chance or similar due to having a certain class, its much more managebale than the build breaking effect a lack of weaponskill currently has.

Another option alltogether would just be to remove players ability to counteract glancings. This brings Rogues & Warriors a bit down in comparison to other specs. But that might be a bit extreme.

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Gantulga
Posts: 169

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Gantulga » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:19 pm

Remove all racial weapon skills and instead make it so everybody is able to train a single +5 weapon skill through a NPC/quest/book/whatever.

Actually why not make it work through books that are sometimes dropped by various 5 man dungeon bosses and also as a random world drop? Right-clicking a different book will simply override your current weapon skill passive.
Last edited by Gantulga on Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Geojak
Posts: 634

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Geojak » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:23 pm

How about we give everyone just diretlcy 315 weapon skill so we can stop bothering /s
Msg

Mac
Posts: 336

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Mac » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:58 pm

Gantulga wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:19 pm
Actually why not make it work through books that are sometimes dropped by various 5 man dungeon bosses and also as a random world drop? Right-clicking a different book will simply override your current weapon skill passive.
Also not a bad idea.

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Whalemilk
Posts: 76

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Whalemilk » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:03 pm

Don’t get too hung up on mom maxing.
WhaleMilk
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Ugoboom
Posts: 255

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Ugoboom » Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:15 am

Weapon skill issues can be fixed a multitiude of ways. I'm a fan of my idea to add lots of new itemization.

For example, DPS warrior t1 t2 t3 with maybe 80% the stats of alternative offpieces we use now, but they all have +15 +20 +30 weapon skill on them. Getting 305 and even 308 skill for glancing reduction and hit chance is now trivial, and instead weapon skill becomes something you stack to reach expertise cap.

The biggest pieces will also have -1% hit on them, which will counteract the reduced hitcap that hitting breakpoints 315, 365, 415, and 465 give you vs lv 63. 465 wep skill is the "expertise cap" and where people would stop.
Zaas - 60 High Elf Warrior
Saere - 60 Night Elf Priest
Jeannine - Leveling Undead Warlock
Cenaria - Leveling Resto Dryad

Mac
Posts: 336

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Mac » Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:11 am

Ugoboom wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:15 am
Weapon skill issues can be fixed a multitiude of ways. I'm a fan of my idea to add lots of new itemization.

For example, DPS warrior t1 t2 t3 with maybe 80% the stats of alternative offpieces we use now, but they all have +15 +20 +30 weapon skill on them. Getting 305 and even 308 skill for glancing reduction and hit chance is now trivial, and instead weapon skill becomes something you stack to reach expertise cap.

The biggest pieces will also have -1% hit on them, which will counteract the reduced hitcap that hitting breakpoints 315, 365, 415, and 465 give you vs lv 63. 465 wep skill is the "expertise cap" and where people would stop.
This is also fair, I like the balancing of the extra hit.

Kairion
Posts: 110

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Kairion » Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:43 am

The last thing warriors need is more steroids, you should not be able to reach significant higher breakpoints without massively compromising your gear. But some items sprinkled in to give you a choice what to wear for the 305/308 cap would make race choice less relevant

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Ugoboom
Posts: 255

Re: Weapon Skill and Mastery

Post by Ugoboom » Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:12 pm

Kairion wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:43 am
The last thing warriors need is more steroids, you should not be able to reach significant higher breakpoints without massively compromising your gear. But some items sprinkled in to give you a choice what to wear for the 305/308 cap would make race choice less relevant
exactly, which is why the stats on these warrior dps peices would be noticably less than their offpieces we currentyl use now. THis would be about achieving the same dps but with more consistency. Nothings worse than having 1-3 dodges on your reck execute phase.
Zaas - 60 High Elf Warrior
Saere - 60 Night Elf Priest
Jeannine - Leveling Undead Warlock
Cenaria - Leveling Resto Dryad

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