Darker Nights should be IN

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Sapiverenus
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Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Sapiverenus » Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:16 pm

The Darker Nights mod is good in premise. It was originally suppose to be part of the game, as I've been told.

Given that lit torches are a source of light and the mod is fixed to work with all light sources, it is a rather complete change on its own, and both memers and crusty folk will probably enjoy it (input welcome).

Survival can be integrated for greater immersion and fun.

Early Considerations:

Means of getting torches would have to be available earlier on with field-sourcing figured out (how to collect its reagents while in a zone) and recipe/ versions of the torch, as well as other light sources such as small glowing stones, "Cast Light", light enchantment, cat's eye potion, "Cat's Eye" from Druid form, "Dark Adjusted [Night Elf]", and a universal "Dark Adjustment" which just means the longer you're in the dark without a significant light source, the better you can see (up to a very limited point). Sitting in pitch black would push the dark adjustment further.

Light Blindness would mean that bright light sources eat away at Dark Adjustment and gives a temporary partial removal of Dark Adjustment (which might be a complete removal if you don't have much to begin with) during and after the light source is removed [1 - 3 seconds]; the severity depends on the brightness and how close it is, and whether one is looking at it or not. Light Blindness fades away rather than disappears altogether (so vision fades in).

Elaborate Integration of Dark into Mechanics:

Crafting would be impaired in varying severity depending on light level.

Something like 3 -6x as long to make and 66 - 99% chance [depending on difficulty of item] you need to try again in pitch black; 1.4- 1.8x as long and 8 - 16% chance [depending on difficulty] to fail in semi-dark with semi-poor OK night vision.
Survival level would improve these #s and Night vision of course improve them as well.

Survival skill would increase from fighting in the dark up to 225 survival levels. Crafting in the dark would increase Survival up to 75 survival levels.
Creating tents, fires and torches in the Dark would only improve the skill up to a low point such as 10 survival levels while below Survival level 50.
Creating tents and fires and torches when it's bright out would improve Survival up to 1 level each. That's it. It's about Survival afterall, not crafting.

Survival skill would increase night vision depth & rate of adjustment, and resistance to light blindness effects (very limited).

If Night Vision value is too low and darkness too high around target; miss chance increases. Affects range much moreso. If the target is in pitch black, and one attacking has very poor dark adjustment, and they're 35 yards away, the miss % is 20%.
Extra miss % is 1% if the enemy is in semi-dark and the player is somewhat Dark Adjusted and they're at say 10 yards. Being light blinded has varying severity but the extreme would result in 60% miss chance versus targets in pitch black 35 yards away.
If one player/ enemy has better vision of the other, their ability to dodge increases up to a limited point; such as 20% dodge effectively becomes 35% dodge at the extreme. Ability to dodge is already different across classes [different from Agility conversion and dodge %] with Hunter having the best ability to dodge, and Rogues having the least [according to a Guide I read].

Hunters get +10 Survival skill; Druids get 15 survival worth in night vision and 5 survival worth in resistance against light blindness.
That's it for now, I'd like to hear some input.
EDIT: If an NPC can't see you they can't aggro. If they know you're there but are unwilling to leave their light source, they won't chase you into the dark (depending on NPC).
Last edited by Sapiverenus on Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hostiles raiding from Dungeons; Unique Meeting Stones no LFG
Class Leveling Mechanics
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Darker Nights Ideas

Challenge to anyone reading:Think of what a good 100 hour level 1 - 20 custom experience would be.

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Raukodor
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Raukodor » Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:15 pm

+1000 i love play with the mod and the music turned off and ambience to 100%. It gives full inmersion

But sadly current patch dont accept darker night
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Geojak
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Geojak » Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:29 pm

Honestly I just think not seeing stuff might not be fun for some pp

IF it was juste a few zones/areas/caves where it'd relevant and you need to equip a torch to see, than I would love it.

IF it's everywhere it would feel to me like ibderwsring breeth buuble as a festure now everywhere in game. It would bother me

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Sapiverenus
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Sapiverenus » Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:09 am

Geojak wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:29 pm
Honestly I just think not seeing stuff might not be fun for some pp

IF it was juste a few zones/areas/caves where it'd relevant and you need to equip a torch to see, than I would love it.

IF it's everywhere it would feel to me like ibderwsring breeth buuble as a festure now everywhere in game. It would bother me
You'd get over it. Quickly, I am betting. It's not suppose to be a one-off gimmick.

I'm not sure what you were trying to say but maybe a Deathwing quote.
Whatever the case, a functioning Darker Nights with elaborate mechanics as I've described would be a unique appeal and would be good for creative scripting, such as ambushes.

Aggro range should be increased based on light level and direction of enemies. Pull radius should be larger. At night, aggro range would be reduced. When a fallen ally is discovered, enemies should be alert for a long time and patrol a bit or whatever is appropriate for the creature/ humanoid.

If it's all in conjunction with a slower pace of game and more invested and dynamic zone it would be a different kind of game.
Hostiles raiding from Dungeons; Unique Meeting Stones no LFG
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Challenge to anyone reading:Think of what a good 100 hour level 1 - 20 custom experience would be.

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Proudwell
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Proudwell » Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:00 am

I understand the fondness people have for darker nights. For people like me that can barely see, it's impossible for me to see in. I need the admittedly underwhelming nights WoW already has to be able to see.

As an optional experience, it should always be available to whomever wants it. But it's an accessibility issue if I now can't see during the game's night time when I already struggle to see.

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Eck
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Eck » Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:12 am

I would like this as an optional difficulty mode. I've always enjoyed adding reshade to various games over the years and I almost always make the game a bit darker.

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Sapiverenus
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Sapiverenus » Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:36 pm

Proudwell wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:00 am
I understand the fondness people have for darker nights. For people like me that can barely see, it's impossible for me to see in. I need the admittedly underwhelming nights WoW already has to be able to see.

As an optional experience, it should always be available to whomever wants it. But it's an accessibility issue if I now can't see during the game's night time when I already struggle to see.
Have you changed the gamma of your screen?

People who play Call of Duty have a greater ability to gain information from what they see, and are quicker at it; they look for the small specs and brown/grey blurs against a backdrop of brown/grey background while moving to see the enemy. That is also apart of gaming, you must admit; though I will concede not the big WoW draw.
The issue you have is probably in your capacity to extract info and hone in on what it is you're seeing. I am betting your eyesight improves when you focus hard and exert yourself? And then you are tired? Your brain can grow and adapt so if you like the game it's still something you can eventually excel in.

If you play with others you could get through content easier and have more light sources; a couple Clerics casting light for instance, or a group with torches. What role do you prefer? Backline healer? Frontrow DPS?
If there were enough people a second server with a 12 hour time shift could be played on, so you can choose a server that's usually daytime for you. If you roll Hunter you can rely on a pet to do a lot of the combat for you. . . and maybe the pet's location and avatar would be "brighter" for the Hunter due to affinity and sound? So you know what's going on and where the enemy generally is.

Is the issue the speed at which you can tell what's going on?

EDIT 1:

https://invidious.tiekoetter.com/watch?v=tZpmBfocNnU

Here is the Darker Nights mod. I have my gamma set to the lowest setting and it is basically impossible for me to see anything beyond the light sources. I've had it this way for a while since I want darker darks and can change gamma in-game.

CRT monitors have darker darks at all brightness levels, greater contrast and brighter colors, and should help you see better. There are some quality CRT monitors with high resolution you can get. They don't have motion blur and have lower latency than LCD monitors. Depends on the quality of the monitor on whether it's worth it though.

EDIT 2:

Actually, I can see most everything when I set it to fullscreen, turn off my lamp, and focus. My gamma is lowest setting, contrast at the highest setting. Let me know how well you can see with fullscreen, lamp off, and focusing. I'm interested in accessibility.
Hostiles raiding from Dungeons; Unique Meeting Stones no LFG
Class Leveling Mechanics
Big and Deep Ideas
Darker Nights Ideas

Challenge to anyone reading:Think of what a good 100 hour level 1 - 20 custom experience would be.

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Sapiverenus
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Sapiverenus » Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:30 pm

An Idea I had:

When looking in a direction while standing still for long enough [with some wiggle room], Night Vision of that area improves to a degree. This is so you can stop and try and figure out what you're looking at at night.

How to implement:

"Same Direction" would be determined by a 'ghost point' in concentric octagons, the octagons being centered and fixed to the camera. These octagons and the 'ghost point' are in code only.

A floating 'ghost point' that is contained in the bounds of these octagons moves when it collides with the edge of the outer octagonal, being contained therein. The point also slowly moves towards the center at a constant rate.

This 'ghost point' is one's 'direction' for the purpose of determining Night Vision adjustment.
Hitting the edge of the octagon resets the Night Vision boost (which is centered on this 'ghost point'.
Being in the outer octagon rapidly decreases the Night Vision boost. Being in the inner octagon stops Night vision boost. 'ghost point' being centered starts night vision gain. The Night Vision boost one can get is capped.

That's how I'd do it, conceptually at least.

EDIT: Reworded for clarity
Hostiles raiding from Dungeons; Unique Meeting Stones no LFG
Class Leveling Mechanics
Big and Deep Ideas
Darker Nights Ideas

Challenge to anyone reading:Think of what a good 100 hour level 1 - 20 custom experience would be.

Mpump
Posts: 3

Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Mpump » Tue May 30, 2023 1:58 pm

I think this would add to the Vanilla + experience, for sure. I would prefer it to be toggle-able, though, if implemented into the game. Or maybe a game mode kind of like hardcore called darkcore or dark hardcore/hardcore plus.

Bob022
Posts: 105

Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Bob022 » Tue May 30, 2023 6:32 pm

I've played games with very dark night, but I would not want it in Warcraft without one other change typically adopted by such games: A relatively rapid day/night cycle. Warcraft uses a full 24 hour game day, which as-is means my favorite parts of the game world would be in perpetual darkness during the hours I usually log on. That's tolerable with "night" not amounting to much but it'd get old real quick with genuine darkness.

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Reploidrocsa
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Reploidrocsa » Tue May 30, 2023 8:42 pm

I like the idea of darker nights as long as the day/night cycle is around 2-3 real hours

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Dhrazar
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Dhrazar » Sat Jan 27, 2024 12:00 pm

The real question is, why is nobody making different versions for darker nights in turtle, like the original mod had four different versions for everyones taste!

Mechsoap
Posts: 29

Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Mechsoap » Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:55 pm

hard disagree, i cant stand when things are just arbitrarily darker so i see more what my screen reflects than the actual game, and have to squint or mess with gamna settings that ultimately just ruin the point of such inclusions.

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Cookieboy
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Cookieboy » Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:05 pm

Hi. I am considered legally blind without visual aid

How does messing with the lights help me?

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Tekamthi
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Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Tekamthi » Fri Feb 02, 2024 6:57 pm

There are some weird things with the mod, would take a lot of additional work to make it enjoyable. I've deleted it from my install.

It's just too dark in many situations and there's no real solution, carrying a torch helps for anything within 5 yards maybe at most, otherwise you see nameplates and that's it, hard to tell which nameplate is closer etc. Also when it rains at night the darkness gets brighter? How does that make sense?

Some of the suggestions in OP sound interesting but it really would take a major overhaul to game to be the main fare for everyone

Mcpewpew
Posts: 17

Re: Darker Nights should be IN

Post by Mcpewpew » Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:52 am

If Turtle WoW was a new server thinking about launching soon, then yes I'd be all for it.

But it's not really something they can force on to people 5 years in.

So you make it optional, right?
I think it probably a lot of work and in the end the vast majority would disable it once the novelty had worn off.

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